Rifle Scopes Athlon Midas Glass Quality Equivalents?

[kykamo]

I love the Athlon Midas level of quality. It is now my acceptable minimum when it comes to optics quality and particularly, in the clarity and brightness. Its seems to me like the quality is really hard to beat for the price, so now I only own Athlon scopes.

However, I want some variety without spending double the money.

So what other brands and their models achieve the same level of performance as a Midas? Seems to me they are all much more expensive. Am I wrong? What compares?

Thanks Guys

 

[MK20]

 

[MK20]

Turn your illumination on in the dark. About 80% of the Athlon Ares ETR optics I have owned have massive amounts of occlusions in the glass.

The midas is a much more budget scope so I would expect it to be worse.

And Athlon sent me multiple replacement scopes to "correct" the issue that had the exact same problem.

Athlon has achieved systemic failure in the glass quality and QC departments.

 

[kykamo]

Well I'm glad you told me they are poop, but what would be better in that price range in your opinion?

 

[MK20]

Vortex anything.

Primary arms if their reticles are your thing.

 

[Serenitynow]

I'm new here but have been researching scopes in this price range as well.
Sticking with Athlon, maybe the Helos or Ares models would be comparable ?
I've also been reading good things about Meopta scopes in this range.

 

[FuhQ]

I’ve come to realize that Primary Arms scopes are the king of budget optics…And I don’t mean that in a negative way. They’ve really stepped up their game the last few years in QA/QC, glass quality, and reticle designs. I own a few, and honestly they’re impressive for their price point. I’d say anything PA offers at an equal price point, is going to best a comparable Athlon or Vortex.

 

[Serenitynow]

@FuhQ
Does this apply to PA's SLX & GLX lines or just GLX ?

 

[xsn10s]

I’ve come to realize that Primary Arms scopes are the king of budget optics…And I don’t mean that in a negative way. They’ve really stepped up their game the last few years in QA/QC, glass quality, and reticle designs. I own a few, and honestly they’re impressive for their price point. I’d say anything PA offers at an equal price point, is going to best a comparable Athlon or Vortex.

That's encouraging to hear. I'm interested with the scopes from these guys that are manufactured in the Philippines and Japan. I know, I know all the arguements for Chinese products. Heck I was just looking at one this morning. One of the PA HUD DMR scopes for coyote hunting.

 

[Schütze]

If athlon, get a Cronus gen2. APRS6.
Great scope! Read on here that some guy’s with an expert voice account got them for 1k recently.

 

[FuhQ]

@FuhQ
Does this apply to PA's SLX & GLX lines or just GLX ?

Yes

 

[gr8fuldoug]

If you have a few minutes to give a call, 516-217-1000, to discuss options it's my pleasure to take the time to chat with you.

 

[longshot2000]

If you are going to spend money on Athlon - and I think there are some decent models - I would look at Arken. But, to be fair, there are some good Athlon scopes, and a loyal following here on the 'Hide.

I would also echo the view on Primary Arms. They do not have the best products, but they have innovation in point and shoot reticles, and they maintain quality control over their Asian production. There is not junk with PA. With Vortex, there is a certain model tolerance, you might look at, as Vortex makes some of the better optics, but also can get quite low in quality or QA. We sell a lot of Vortex, but the first thing you will hear about Vortex is about how good their warranty is. And, their warranty is superb. Nobody talks about Nightforce or Schmidt & Bender warranties. My perspective is that PA has lines that dip below the Strike Eagle in quality (but not consistency or QA), and then mirror into the Viper line occasionally.

But, back to Arken. They have scopes that are equal to or exceed Strike Eagle and Viper PST Gen2, at a lower price point. We started carrying Arken this year, and have not had one complaint. When you get a $500 scope that performs like a $1,100 scope, everyone is happy.

 

[b6graham]

Vortex anything.

Primary arms if their reticles are your thing.

people like their reticles?

throwback thursday chevron/delta point reticle in COD on everything

 

[Basher]

people like their reticles?

throwback thursday chevron/delta point reticle in COD on everything

This has been the main thing stopping me from trying a PA. In a 1-6, the ACSS is fine on a carbine or something. In a precision application, it’s WAAAAY down on my list of desirable reticles lol.

 

[CasperTheFriendlyGhost]

I've been wanting to try the Arken EP5 in that price range, I keep hearing really good things about it and want it for my less expensive builds.

 

[FuhQ]

I've been wanting to try the Arken EP5 in that price range, I keep hearing really good things about it and want it for my less expensive builds.

For a sub-$600 scope, it's a solid buy.

 

[kykamo]

My biggest problem with eh EP5 is the weight. Its soooo heavy! Id get a EPL4 but I heard the glass compares more to the SH4 than the EP5 and have seen many compare and say that the glass on a Midas tac is more comparable or better than the EP5. So im surprised some people would call the Midas (or all Athlon for that matter) poop. Though it seems they were mostly referring to QC than optically.

Im not sure what im missing.

 

[BigJimFish]

So what other brands and their models achieve the same level of performance as a Midas? Seems to me they are all much more expensive. Am I wrong? What compares?

Thanks Guys

The new Bushy Match Pro ED 5-30x56 is quite similar in overall optical performance to the Athlon Midas TAC. Strange ask though. Find me something else as similar as possible to like this thing that I like and am satisfied with but not the same. Whatever floats your boat man.

 

[FuhQ]

My biggest problem with eh EP5 is the weight. Its soooo heavy! Id get a EPL4 but I heard the glass compares more to the SH4 than the EP5 and have seen many compare and say that the glass on a Midas tac is more comparable or better than the EP5. So im surprised some people would call the Midas (or all Athlon for that matter) poop. Though it seems they were mostly referring to QC than optically.

Im not sure what im missing.

Owning all 3 of their scope models, the EPL4 6-24x50 is very similar to my SH4 Gen2 6-24x50's. The EP5's glass is in a class of its own, when it comes the rest of the Arken scope lineup, but yeah, the EP5 is a bit of a chonky beast when it comes to the weight department. I can recommend a really nice scope with really nice glass that is lighter weight, but the prices are exponentially more than the EP5.

If you want to be around the EP5 price range, but shave some weight, and still have great glass, the Burris XTR-II SCR MIL scopes are on clearance at EuroOptic for $650. They MSRP at $1,499, and retail for $899. I've bought 3 of them so far to replace lower-end scopes on some of my rifles. Probably end up with at least 1, maybe 2 more. I also bought a new XTR-III 5.5-30x56 SCR2 MIL scope...And WOW! I see where the extra money goes right out of the box...But those retail for $1,449.

Burris Xtreme Tactical XTR II 5-25x50 Illum SCR Mil Scope 201051

Burris Xtreme Tactical XTR II 5-25x50 SCR Mil Scope 201051 | Only at EuroOptic.com!

www.eurooptic.com

Here's the XTR-III, just incase you're curious...

Burris Xtreme Tactical XTR III 5.5-30x56mm 34mm SCR 2 Mil Riflescope 201214

FREE SHIPPING on Burris Xtreme Tactical XTR III 5.5-30x56mm 34mm SCR 2 Mil Riflescope 201214

www.eurooptic.com

 

[kykamo]

Owning all 3 of their scope models, the EPL4 6-24x50 is very similar to my SH4 Gen2 6-24x50's. The EP5's glass is in a class of its own, when it comes the rest of the Arken scope lineup, but yeah, the EP5 is a bit of a chonky beast when it comes to the weight department. I can recommend a really nice scope with really nice glass that is lighter weight, but the prices are exponentially more than the EP5.

If you want to be around the EP5 price range, but shave some weight, and still have great glass, the Burris XTR-II SCR MIL scopes are on clearance at EuroOptic for $650. They MSRP at $1,499, and retail for $899. I've bought 3 of them so far to replace lower-end scopes on some of my rifles. Probably end up with at least 1, maybe 2 more. I also bought a new XTR-III 5.5-30x56 SCR2 MIL scope...And WOW! I see where the extra money goes right out of the box...But those retail for $1,449.

Burris Xtreme Tactical XTR II 5-25x50 Illum SCR Mil Scope 201051

Burris Xtreme Tactical XTR II 5-25x50 SCR Mil Scope 201051 | Only at EuroOptic.com!

www.eurooptic.com

Here's the XTR-III, just incase you're curious...

Burris Xtreme Tactical XTR III 5.5-30x56mm 34mm SCR 2 Mil Riflescope 201214

FREE SHIPPING on Burris Xtreme Tactical XTR III 5.5-30x56mm 34mm SCR 2 Mil Riflescope 201214

www.eurooptic.com

Thanks FuhQ. My only concern is with the SCR reticle being too thick??? And the SCR2 too thin to try and fix the thickness? Pics tell me the SCR2 is too thin for my tast but havnt seen anything on the original SCR. What do you think?

 

[kykamo]

The new Bushy Match Pro ED 5-30x56 is quite similar in overall optical performance to the Athlon Midas TAC. Strange ask though. Find me something else as similar as possible to like this thing that I like and am satisfied with but not the same. Whatever floats your boat man.

Thanks for replying. What im trying to ask is what is similar quality or better at the price range so I can expand my collection without getting a disappointing purchase. If you had Midas money, what would you get instead? Unless you think the Midas is the best option?

 

[FuhQ]

Thanks FuhQ. My only concern is with the SCR reticle being too thick??? And the SCR2 too thin to try and fix the thickness? Pics tell me the SCR2 is too thin for my tast but havnt seen anything on the original SCR. What do you think?

It’s very thin in the very center floating crosshair. At least, in my opinion. It’s a very well designed reticle. I think you’d have no problems with it.

The SCR 2 is excellent when you zoom it in. Not to think, ultra-clean lines, and well designed. I really like the SCR 2.

 

[BigJimFish]

Thanks for replying. What im trying to ask is what is similar quality or better at the price range so I can expand my collection without getting a disappointing purchase. If you had Midas money, what would you get instead? Unless you think the Midas is the best option?

Hmm, the Athlon Midas and the Bushy Match Pro ED 5-30x56 are both great values in this price slot. People have also mentioned the Arken EP-5 which is less expensive, heavier, and also a great value. I would recommend any of these.

 

[Jaydee1445]

I'm new here but have been researching scopes in this price range as well.
Sticking with Athlon, maybe the Helos or Ares models would be comparable ?
I've also been reading good things about Meopta scopes in this range.

There’s a reason experienced shooters call that price point shit. I don’t really buy the as good as $1200 optics line. If all your time spent on the square range, yeah maybe so.
As you are new here and asking about $600 glass it seems you are probably newer to “ tactical” scopes. In my years of doing gunstore events as Prostaff my advice to those asking about $600 tactical scopes was save up and spend $1200 or get better $600 glass without all the tacticool features.
Are you going to shoot over 600 yds where you need 25x plus magnification, 120 moa elevation , or wind holds to 600 meters?
Are you going to be milling targets where you need first focal plane? Second focal plane has it’s advantages.
Always spend your budget on optical quality first, features second. Step up to something like a Burris XTR III you won’t be disappointed.
Arken has an advantage in that $600 price point as they include all the extras for a few dollars more with the seal foundation coupon.
take @gr8fuldoug up on his offer and call him to discuss your needs. He won’t steer you wrong.

 

[fdkay]

There’s a reason experienced shooters call that price point shit. I don’t really buy the as good as $1200 optics line. If all your time spent on the square range, yeah maybe so.
As you are new here and asking about $600 glass it seems you are probably newer to “ tactical” scopes. In my years of doing gunstore events as Prostaff my advice to those asking about $600 tactical scopes was save up and spend $1200 or get better $600 glass without all the tacticool features.
Are you going to shoot over 600 yds where you need 25x plus magnification, 120 moa elevation , or wind holds to 600 meters?
Are you going to be milling targets where you need first focal plane? Second focal plane has it’s advantages.
Always spend your budget on optical quality first, features second. Step up to something like a Burris XTR III you won’t be disappointed.
Arken has an advantage in that $600 price point as they include all the extras for a few dollars more with the seal foundation coupon.
take @gr8fuldoug up on his offer and call him to discuss your needs. He won’t steer you wrong.

How many people here are rapelling out of helicopters or doing HALO jumps with their personal rifles? All of us shoot on a "square range", including PRS shooters.
Scopes have come a VERY long way in the past 15 years.
I'm not advocating Chinese made stuff, but, in all reality, the care, quality and precision of anything made in China is up to the company contracting with the OEM.
I Phones are made in China, they are ridiculouosly expensive. People line up around the block every 8 months or so to upgrade their phone to the newest model.
I disagree with optical quality first, though it is nice. Mechanical repeatability and proper tracking are more important. Most scopes in the 400+ range have sufficient glass to do the job, though better glass is obviously important as well, as some glass is indeed, terrible.

 

[adubeau]

It’s very thin in the very center floating crosshair. At least, in my opinion. It’s a very well designed reticle. I think you’d have no problems with it.

The SCR 2 is excellent when you zoom it in. Not to think, ultra-clean lines, and well designed. I really like the SCR 2.

I can second this, I love the SCR 2 reticle on my Burris XTR IIIi, it works extremely really well for me.

 

[Serenitynow]

I'm not the OP, but my situation seems to be the same as his.
Trying to find that line where more money spent only gets little advantages ( can't think of the term for it now ).

 

[xsn10s]

Point of diminishing returns.

 

[b6graham]

and that point arguably doesn't come into play until $3k

 

[Serenitynow]

THAT'S IT

 

[Rocketvapor]

I picked up a XTR 2, 8-40X50 old model from midway for 630 plus tax.
They had 10, now gone.

 

[Serenitynow]

I have looked at that one too.
FuhQ seems to really like those

 

[FuhQ]

I'm not the OP, but my situation seems to be the same as his.
Trying to find that line where more money spent only gets little advantages ( can't think of the term for it now ).

I own many alpha-tier scopes and have looked and shot through a lot more. My opinion though experience is that $2,500 is that line. Anything above $2,500 will be minimal Improvements at best, that your average person will most likely never be able to notice, or have the skills or need to where that little extra will come into necessity.

 

[FuhQ]

and that point arguably doesn't come into play until $3k

I was going to say $3K, but honestly, I think it’s closer to $2,500 with today’s technology and pricing.

 

[FuhQ]

I have looked at that one too.
FuhQ seems to really like those

That’s because when you find a $1,499 MSRP scope on clearance for $650, it will be very hard to beat.

 

[Rocketvapor]

I bought the Buras because I needed a third scope.
Buy once/cry 3 times wasn't in the budget
Have a Cronus Gen2 and a XRS 2, Price point on the Buras 8-40 was hard to pass up.
It's in the mail now.

 

[Serenitynow]

I bought the Buras because I needed a third scope.
Buy once/cry 3 times wasn't in the budget
Have a Cronus Gen2 and a XRS 2, Price point on the Buras 8-40 was hard to pass up.
It's in the mail now.

This is where I am.
Can't really afford to go to even $1000, so trying to find the best under that.

 

[FuhQ]

This is where I am.
Can't really afford to go to even $1000, so trying to find the best under that.

If you have MIL/LEO credentials, you can call Clay Hawkins at EuroOptic, and see what they can do on a Burris XTR-III 5.5-30x56 SCR 2. They can probably get you close to that $1K mark, if I had to guess? If so, that will be the best tactical scope you will get for $1,000 budget.

The best hunting scope (that you could also use for targets/range work) that you can get for under $1,000 right now, is the LOW Japan built Zeiss Conquest V4 6-24x50 ZMOA-1 that is on sale at Midway from $1,149 down to $799 right now. The glass is amazing in these for the price…I have 3 of them on my hunting rifles.

Zeiss Conquest V4 Rifle Scope 6-24x 50mm #93 ZMOA-1 Reticle Matte

The Zeiss Conquest V4 is based on a 4x zoom ratio and incorporates a 30mm main tube. Each model delivers 90% to the-eye light transmission, offers 1/4...

www.midwayusa.com

 

[Jaydee1445]

How many people here are rapelling out of helicopters or doing HALO jumps with their personal rifles? All of us shoot on a "square range", including PRS shooters.
Mechanical repeatability and proper tracking are more important.

I should have said shooting groups off a bench on a square range. My SH4 and EP5 do a good job tracking but IMHO the glass lacks even for a .22lr YMMV I'm giving the SH to my 14 yr old grandson and putting a XTR IIIi on the open class 22. If you can get MIL/LEO expert credentials (GOOGLE) the price jump isn't that far from the Midas.

 

[Rocketvapor]

Buras 8-40 delivered today. 2 days from Midway, UPS.
Unboxed is all. Came with 3" sun shield.
Will look at the stars tonight

 

[FALex]

If you are going to spend money on Athlon - and I think there are some decent models - I would look at Arken. But, to be fair, there are some good Athlon scopes, and a loyal following here on the 'Hide.

I would also echo the view on Primary Arms. They do not have the best products, but they have innovation in point and shoot reticles, and they maintain quality control over their Asian production. There is not junk with PA. With Vortex, there is a certain model tolerance, you might look at, as Vortex makes some of the better optics, but also can get quite low in quality or QA. We sell a lot of Vortex, but the first thing you will hear about Vortex is about how good their warranty is. And, their warranty is superb. Nobody talks about Nightforce or Schmidt & Bender warranties. My perspective is that PA has lines that dip below the Strike Eagle in quality (but not consistency or QA), and then mirror into the Viper line occasionally.

But, back to Arken. They have scopes that are equal to or exceed Strike Eagle and Viper PST Gen2, at a lower price point. We started carrying Arken this year, and have not had one complaint. When you get a $500 scope that performs like a $1,100 scope, everyone is happy.

One of our local shops had a .22 trainer with an Arken 5-25 (IIRC?) on top of it. I had never handled one, and didn't know shit about them, other than they appear to be a newer player in the optics realm. I gotta admit, I was really impressed with this scope. Again, not knowing anything about them, I was guessing this particular model was around 1k, so you can imagine my surprise when I learned it was about half that.

I'm picky when it comes to reticles, and from what I saw on that particular model, I believed it to be a decent reticle, but I'd have to use it in the field to know for certain. I won't comment on glass quality because I was just peering through it in a gun store, but the turrets felt particularly robust. They had a decent feel to them; audible and tactile "clicks," which I am also a fan of.

Anyhow, I'm needing an optic for my son's .22, and I don't want to spend big cash on one right now, so I've been contemplating grabbing one.

As far as PA's optics go, I recently obtained their SLx 1-8 ffp. I wasn't sure if I'd like the reticle (ACSS Raptor), and I'm still not sure about it, but I'm gonna run it for awhile and then evaluate it from there. I do not have a "humbler" but thus far, it's worked good enough for me to shoot prairie dogs and paper. And although PA doesn't sell you on their warranty, I already know how good their customer service is, so I'm not worried about any of those issues.

@kykamo what are your experiences with other brands of optics?

 

[kykamo]

Iv had a bunch of hawke, cheap leupolds, burris veracity, element helix and a 1-6 athlon midas. Sold the burris a while ago but i really enjoyed it. I thought the 4x16 helix would be great for my 22 but after using the midas, it showed me how hard it was to see holes at 200m. So im kinda disappoint in the helix now.

 

[Scopeye]

I'm new here but have been researching scopes in this price range as well.
Sticking with Athlon, maybe the Helos or Ares models would be comparable ?
I've also been reading good things about Meopta scopes in this range.

Stick with the Midas HD and Ares at the minimum. The other Helos doesn't have HD glass. Meoptas are good but they have a much smaller apparent FOV when looking through them and turrets don't have indicators to show how many revolutions you cranked up.

 

[Scopeye]

I've been wanting to try the Arken EP5 in that price range, I keep hearing really good things about it and want it for my less expensive builds.

Just don't expect the image quality to be clear on high magnification. It's a good scope when used as a 5-20x.

 

[Scopeye]

Element Optics have below average glass and well below average quality for the price they charge in all their different lines of scopes as you already noticed. The Athlon Midas Tac is actually a decent scope way better than average probably best in class when it comes to Chinese made scopes. Much better than Arken especially the glass quality. If you step down downgrade to an EP5 coming from a Midas Tac you'll be really disappointed in the glass in the EP5.

Iv had a bunch of hawke, cheap leupolds, burris veracity, element helix and a 1-6 athlon midas. Sold the burris a while ago but i really enjoyed it. I thought the 4x16 helix would be great for my 22 but after using the midas, it showed me how hard it was to see holes at 200m. So im kinda disappoint in the helix now.

 

[Scopeye]

Theres been QC issues specific to the Ares ETR 4.5-30x56 and Midas TAC 5-25x56 34mm. I personally skipped over the ETR and got a Cronus BTR instead fir just a little extra cash for Japan made instead of Chinese. I think it's insane to buy an Ares ETR especially for the price even for $900 on sale it's still Chinese. I really think the absolute max anyone should pay for any Chinese made scope is $500 or maybe $600 MAXIMUM since the scope probably cost only $100 or less to manufacture in China.

I try to avoid made in China whenever possible or not spend more than $500.

The last China purchase was a Bushnell Match Pro ED for $699.99 what a disappointment glass isn't clear on high magnification and mushy turrets even worse than the cheaper original Match Pro. My Athlon Ares BTR and Midas Tac are better. The Match Pro ED has this annoying haze or fog on high magnification past 800 yards while my Midas Tac and Ares BTR don't have this problem. The Bushnell should be priced at $500 maximum IMHO. The Viridian Xactus 34mm is a much better scope at $599.99 before 10% discount is used.

Turn your illumination on in the dark. About 80% of the Athlon Ares ETR optics I have owned have massive amounts of occlusions in the glass.

The midas is a much more budget scope so I would expect it to be worse.

And Athlon sent me multiple replacement scopes to "correct" the issue that had the exact same problem.

Athlon has achieved systemic failure in the glass quality and QC departments.

 

[Scopeye]

Thanks for replying. What im trying to ask is what is similar quality or better at the price range so I can expand my collection without getting a disappointing purchase. If you had Midas money, what would you get instead? Unless you think the Midas is the best option?

Athlon Ares BTR Gen 2 4.5-27x50 currently selling for $565 at Walmart online with free shipping and free returns. Everyplace else sells them for $869.99. Better than the new Bushnell Match Pro ED and most other Chinesium scopes currently being sold by other brands. I've owned several of them and never had an issue yet. The Arkens are likely to need to be sent in multiple times under warranty if you have bad luck FYI their customers make good QC inspectors for the brand.

 

[kykamo]

Thanks for the advice. Very detailed. but jsyk i dont live in a free country and dont have access to the amazing sales

Right now im leaning between a midas or the helos 4-20. I understand the Midas should have better glass, but others have suggested that the Helos glass is very close and has other features (illum, locking turrets and aprs6 ret) Midas doesnt have for less money. Making the Helos the better value???

Im also curious how much more money one would need to spend to get to the next best value bracket?

Thanks for all your responses guys

 

[Scopeye]

There's a huge difference in optical clarity between the Helos and Midas Tac according to my own eyes.

If you can buy a Meopta Optika 5 4-20x RD Z Plus you'd probably be much happier. It doesn't have a zero stop and it's SFP. Image quality is superb better than the Midas Tac.

The cheaper Arken EPL4 4-16x44 is what I would recommend instead of the Helos.