Attempting to put together a rifle for use in the mountains

[cruiserweight]

Hello all,

Been doing alot of reading and learned quite a bit about the current state of long range shooting, but I still have a couple questions I would like input on.

I plan to build or buy a rifle to lug around the Rocky Mountains, and was looking for something relatively light, accurate, chambered in a decent caliber (6.5cm mainly, possibly .308 or .300 WM. 6mm ARC) with commercially available ammunition as I don't reload (yet). Major uses of this rifle would be hunting (pigs when I'm in Texas, not pigs when I'm in Colorado), shooting at the range, and of course SHTF. I figure given the terrain, a longer-barreled rifle in a more meaty caliber would be more useful and give more stand-off distance than my 12.5' 5.56 SOLGW rifle. The whole SHTF scenario is pretty cringey to even contemplate, but not two weeks ago we had black-clad protestors with AR's and plate carriers standing in the street just a couple miles from my house, people are not gonna suddenly get rational up here, and I need an excuse to spend this kind of money or my wife will have my balls.

I've considered rifles such as the LMT MWS, Seekins SP10, etc; the major downside is weight. Weight isn't a huge deal, I'm in good physical shape and used to humping stuff through the mountains, but I appreciate a light load.
Also looked into the POF Revolution and Desert Tech MDRX as both are light, but the reviews are mixed. Some say extreme accuracy, some say so-so, some have reliability issues.
Looked into the Nemo Arms stuff because .300 WM in a 16' barrel sounds amusing, but once again the reviews are mixed and I can't admit that there's much practicality in a 16' barreled .300WM rifle, but I bet it would penetrate just about anything within several hundred yards and 16' would be handy up close for what it's worth.
Finally, I've considered just ordering the lightest components I can and building something on the cheap


So anyways, let the flaming begin.

 

[...]

just remember, you are going to spend 99% of your time carrying it.....personally ide build something as light as possible.

and since its going to be light, i would avoid the magnum calibers and look at a 6.5 or .308

if it were me, i would just build it myself.......ide spend the money for a CF barrel like a proof research

Proof Research PR10 Carbon Fiber 308 Win Rifle Barrels w/ Free S&H — 2 models

Shop Proof Research PR10 Carbon Fiber 308 Win Rifle Barrels | 4.7 Star Rating on 7 Reviews for Proof Research PR10 Carbon Fiber 308 Win Rifle Barrels Best Rated + Free Shipping...

www.opticsplanet.com

then slap that on whatever upper and lower you fancy, and find a nice lightweight set of furnature.

 

[drewthebrave]

You can build a very light, accurate 6.5 Grendel for under $1000. A ~16" barrel lets you hunt medium sized game to 400 yards while still being pretty handy. You can go as short with a 12" and still hunt to about 300 yards - which is great if you plan to use a suppressor full time. A ~24" barrel can help you reach out to 500 yards ethically. Whichever length you choose, it can be lighter & more affordable than a large frame AR -- without the need for pricey carbon fiber or titanium components. You give up some performance to the big frame guns, but you gain lightness - which is critical for a backpacking gun.

 

[hellishot]

.308 gonna be tiresome to carry especially if you are hauling extra magazines. But if you are okay with the weight then go for it.

What is your budget? This information can help narrow recommendations.

 

[cruiserweight]

.308 gonna be tiresome to carry especially if you are hauling extra magazines. But if you are okay with the weight then go for it.

What is your budget? This information can help narrow recommendations.

I’ve had a good bit of experience with .308 in the past and would only consider if it there was some special circumstance such as a decently priced SR-25 just magically appeared for sale. Otherwise, I think most of the newer 6mm rounds do basically everything better.

Budget is around 3500, not including glass

 

[BravoSector1]

I've your sticking to medium game don't forget about 6.5 Grendel as well. Bigger game maybe head for the 6.5 Creedmoor. Proof Research barrel and look at lightweight receiver sets like 2A Armament and others out there if a home build is your desire. With that budget there are quite a few factory gas guns out there. NEMO, Daniel Defense, Christensen Arms, Savage....yadayada

 

[BravoSector1]

I've your sticking to medium game don't forget about 6.5 Grendel as well. Bigger game maybe head for the 6.5 Creedmoor. Proof Research barrel and look at lightweight receiver sets like 2A Armament and others out there if a home build is your desire. With that budget there are quite a few factory gas guns out there. NEMO, Daniel Defense, Christensen Arms, Savage....yadayada

Oh...don't forget about .300BO and 6.8 SPC as well.

 

[Eli17L]

I am also looking for the same gun and thinking about the Wilson RECON TACTICAL https://www.wilsoncombat.com/recon-tactical-6-5-creedmoor/ at 8.6 lbs or the same in Grendel at 7 lbs.

 

[JbBooks]

Light and cheap don’t necessarily run together when building a large frame AR, my wife built her 6.5cm AR-10, and she wanted it as light as she could get it, and 3500 later she had a sub 12 pound gun including glass, that shoots sub moa all day long.

 

[BravoSector1]

Light and cheap don’t necessarily run together when building a large frame AR, my wife built her 6.5cm AR-10, and she wanted it as light as she could get it, and 3500 later she had a sub 12 pound gun including glass, that shoots sub moa all day long.

Completely agree. If the OP can get away from it, and you like the slippery 6mm projectiles, I'd go with 6.5 Grendel, 6mm ARC or 6.8 SPC. You can get the Proof Research barrels in the 6.5 and 6.8 now and no doubt the ARC is not far behind.

 

[drewthebrave]

With a budget of $3500, you have a lot of options available to you. If you don't want to build it yourself, this V7 6.5 Creedmoor rifle is lighter than most of my AR15s and comes in right at your budget. Only one left:

V Seven Weapon Systems 6.5 Creedmoor Fluted Rifle - 20\\\

FFL Required Before Shipping.Please have your dealer email a copy of their FFL to [email protected] or fax it to 253-218-2998, referencing your name and order number.

www.rainierarms.com

 

[acudaowner]

here its perfect size and weight just make sure your porters knows they are the one carrying it . Mush little pony mush, your kids can lug the creates of extra ammo ha ha ha while you crack the whip making sure everyone keeps in line . Just like one of them old time African safaris you would see all the tribes men carrying all the English people's supplies just your in the mountains still its good to be king . Send back pictures and lots of stories of your hunt to share with everyone and good luck .

 

[MK20]

With your budget you could always go the scar 17 or MK20 route.

 

[DPS03]

just remember, you are going to spend 99% of your time carrying it.....personally ide build something as light as possible.

and since its going to be light, i would avoid the magnum calibers and look at a 6.5 or .308

if it were me, i would just build it myself.......ide spend the money for a CF barrel like a proof research

Proof Research PR10 Carbon Fiber 308 Win Rifle Barrels w/ Free S&H — 2 models

Shop Proof Research PR10 Carbon Fiber 308 Win Rifle Barrels | 4.7 Star Rating on 7 Reviews for Proof Research PR10 Carbon Fiber 308 Win Rifle Barrels Best Rated + Free Shipping...

www.opticsplanet.com

then slap that on whatever upper and lower you fancy, and find a nice lightweight set of furnature.

I think this is good advice with respect to a self build.

FWIW, I have a 24" BSF (carbon fiber jacketed) 6.5 Creedmoor with a heavy scope, bipod, empty mag, and the weight is 13.4 pounds or so. I built the thing for about 2K (not including scope or mounts of course).

The rifle itself is right at 10 pounds but the other components (scope, bipod, muzzle brake, mag, and sling) make up the rest of it. The barrel is only 38oz. For a 24" barrel, that's pretty light.

As far as penetration goes, at 500 yards, the Hornady 147 ELD in 6.5 Creedmoor using a 24" barrel still carries 1426 ft. pounds of energy, and is still over 1000 at 800 yards.

 

[MK20]

i would buy a Ruger American Predator in 6.5 CM. They weigh in at about 6 lbs and many people have taken them out to over 1K m with sub MOA accuracy after relieving the barrel channel a bit. They also cost about $375.
You just have to relieve the barrel channel and put a 20 moa base on if you want it.

 

[cruiserweight]

Thanks for all the advice, that V Seven looks tempting, and the Scar 20S, except the scar is sold out everywhere, except where people are trying to gouge on the price, and it’s a chunky boy. But I still want it lol. The logical choice is to probably build an AR with a proof barrel and a decent set of parts. I’m still considering a bolt gun, even though it doesn’t fit the whole “SHTF” scenario very well.

 

[ormandj]

Don't get hung up on a proof barrel. You can get a steel barrel that will perform just as well. The Proof is just a steel barrel wrapped in CF; an appropriate contour on a steel barrel will be about the same weight and you're really not giving up much - don't get hung up on all the 'stiffness' and 'heat dissipation' stuff with the CF wrapping. Proof barrels are generally excellent barrels, but they aren't the only option. I tend to do straight fluted stainless barrels with a decently heavy counter pre-gas block then lighter post-gas block (0.750" generally at the gas block) depending on the length of the barrel. Most are not that much heavier than a Proof barrel and perform just as well, if not better with longer strings of fire.

If this is a hunting rifle, POI shift on longer strings of fire won't be as important. SHTF/whatever you want to call some kind of crazy scenario like that, if you plan on dumping magazines downrange, you're probably doing it at CQB distance (and you're doing it wrong, for that matter) so it doesn't matter if your POI changes slightly. Get a lighter profile steel barrel and you'll be fine. As someone else noted, 99% of the time you'll be carrying it, and you'll appreciate the lighter weight! Just don't feel you have to buy a Proof to have a lightweight and accurate barrel, there's a ton of great steel options out there.

 

[bobke]

As much as I’m a certain fan of the Grendel, and with a 129 ABLR or other proper bullet, effective beyond its weight class, you’ve mentioned hauling rifle around in the mountains, and would expect your quarry be mule deer, whitetails, antelope, elk or other. Distances could be long, hill to hill. If so, would think the extra insurance/confidence the 6.5 CM would give would be worth going in that direction. Don’t have any personal experience with the G2 frames that are smaller/lighter than a full size AR10, but might be worth a look. I have two 6.5 CM full frame AR’s that weigh 14-16# scoped, and have hauled them around our ranch and while doable, are heavy at days end. Will follow to see how your choices for build come together.

 

[celltech]

I built a .308 18" AR10 that is exactly 8lbs without a scope, and costs $1200. Aero M5 receiver set with the Atlas S-One handguard and a Faxon heavy fluted barrel. A Proof CF barrel would actually be heavier. Just be careful with parts selection and your goals, but it's not hard to build one quite a bit lighter than OEM rifles.

 

[drewthebrave]

I built a .308 18" AR10 that is exactly 8lbs without a scope, and costs $1200. Aero M5 receiver set with the Atlas S-One handguard and a Faxon heavy fluted barrel. A Proof CF barrel would actually be heavier. Just be careful with parts selection and your goals, but it's not hard to build one quite a bit lighter than OEM rifles.

I second this. I started a build with an Aero M5 builder's set with the intention of keeping it as light as possible without breaking the bank. Then I figured my 18" Grendel covered that role pretty well, so I adjusted my plan and bought a heavy profile Craddock Precision barrel that was on sale. At 55 oz, it's about a pound heavier than the Faxon I was considering, but it serves a different purpose. I went with parts a step above the bargain-bin, but stayed budget conscious on most of it. My total weight came to about 9.5 lbs before optic, and just under 12 lbs with scope (no mags). My AR15s are in the 7-9 lb range scoped, for reference.

At a $2000 budget, you could easily use a carbon fiber handguard, a slim profile barrel, and a lightweight stock to keep a long-barreled AR10 under 8 pounds. If you spend your extra budget on lightweight recievers, carbon fiber barrels, bolt carriers, or other specialty parts, you could drop below 7 lbs and still be under your $3500 budget, with something a little more customized than the V7.

Or you can spend under $500 on an entry-level bolt action and have something about as accurate as a $2000+ AR, while staying under 7 lbs. Maybe put half your budget towards a backpacking bolt gun, and the other half towards a SHTF battle rifle?

 

[cruiserweight]

I second this. I started a build with an Aero M5 builder's set with the intention of keeping it as light as possible without breaking the bank. Then I figured my 18" Grendel covered that role pretty well, so I adjusted my plan and bought a heavy profile Craddock Precision barrel that was on sale. At 55 oz, it's about a pound heavier than the Faxon I was considering, but it serves a different purpose. I went with parts a step above the bargain-bin, but stayed budget conscious on most of it. My total weight came to about 9.5 lbs before optic, and just under 12 lbs with scope (no mags). My AR15s are in the 7-9 lb range scoped, for reference.

At a $2000 budget, you could easily use a carbon fiber handguard, a slim profile barrel, and a lightweight stock to keep a long-barreled AR10 under 8 pounds. If you spend your extra budget on lightweight recievers, carbon fiber barrels, bolt carriers, or other specialty parts, you could drop below 7 lbs and still be under your $3500 budget, with something a little more customized than the V7.

Or you can spend under $500 on an entry-level bolt action and have something about as accurate as a $2000+ AR, while staying under 7 lbs. Maybe put half your budget towards a backpacking bolt gun, and the other half towards a SHTF battle rifle?

This is probably a good idea, building an AR-10 and buying an entry level bolt gun. I’ve never built an AR-10, but I’ve built several AR-15’s so might as well give it a shot. I’ve heard nothing but good things about Craddock Precision so I’ll check out their barrel offerings.

 

[powdahound76]

For hunting in CO, a Tikka T3 in either .308 or ‘06 works awesome.
Ask me how I know.
8-10+ miles a day isnt unheard of looking for elk. Our public land is overrun with fools on quads and in trucks, so you gotta walk to increase your odds.

i would say do that and build a SHTF rig.

Also, for ranges a short 556 cant do, a bolt action .308 or 6.5 creedmor with 2-3 extra mags will do dang well.
Focus on practice running With a 22, then try it with a big gun.
many nice handy bolt guns that are MOA or better can be had for a good price.

Im in Lakewood BTW. You in Aurora?

 

[cruiserweight]

For hunting in CO, a Tikka T3 in either .308 or ‘06 works awesome.
Ask me how I know.
8-10+ miles a day isnt unheard of looking for elk. Our public land is overrun with fools on quads and in trucks, so you gotta walk to increase your odds.

i would say do that and build a SHTF rig.

Also, for ranges a short 556 cant do, a bolt action .308 or 6.5 creedmor with 2-3 extra mags will do dang well.
Focus on practice running With a 22, then try it with a big gun.
many nice handy bolt guns that are MOA or better can be had for a good price.

Im in Lakewood BTW. You in Aurora?

I’m in Colorado Springs, moved up from San Antonio TX a couple years ago, still getting used to the terrain and elevation lol. In Texas the 12.5 AR did everything I needed it to do pretty much...here, not so much.

 

[shax2lex]

For a good all around AR-10, just go buy a Seekins SP-10 in 6.5. Good price with a coupon, shoots well, and fully ambidextrous. Not overly heavy either. Buy some Seekins rings and a Bushnell LRHSI floating around on the Hide and you’ll be set.

 

[hseII]

Thanks for all the advice, that V Seven looks tempting, and the Scar 20S, except the scar is sold out everywhere, except where people are trying to gouge on the price, and it’s a chunky boy. But I still want it lol. The logical choice is to probably build an AR with a proof barrel and a decent set of parts. I’m still considering a bolt gun, even though it doesn’t fit the whole “SHTF” scenario very well.

A bolt gun fits that “SHTF” scenario better than anything I’ve seen mentioned.

you don’t reload, so 30-06, .308, or 6.5 Creed is the logical choice. 300 WM would be nice but if your wife has to use such, I’d stick to the 1st 3.

I suggest a look at the Christiensen Arms MPR with the carbon fiber barrel in one of the above calibers & purchase ammo with 50% of remaining rifle budget, spending the other 50% on reloading equipment . Much better return than Golf or Soccer.

Modern Precision Rifle (MPR) | Christensen Arms

The Modern Precision Rifle with Flash Forged Technology is an ultra-lightweight chassis rifle designed to break with tradition.

christensenarms.com

If this was offered in LH I would be saving about $1,200 right now.

 

[cruiserweight]

Ok, so here are the latest bad ideas I’ve had regarding this whole topic:

6mm ARC upper
Pros-
Light, most uppers seem to be accurate (the Craddock stuff even more so?) range is good, slap it on a cheap ar-15 lower and you’re good to go.

Cons-
Not much commercial off-the-shelf ammo available, expensive, magazines are hard to find/not reliable

I’m leaning towards this as the money saved could be used to pick up a sub-$2000 bolt gun (Ruger precision rifle possibly? More research is needed) chambered in 6.5 creedmoor or 300 wm.
Also considered building an LMT MWS out of parts, but the total price of the parts was ridiculous, although I’ve seen some go for 2500 or so on armslist lately
I try to do my research before spending a ton of money, sorry for being so long winded. I’m also away for work and have plenty of time to read, and the more I learn, the more questions I have.

 

[ormandj]

The magazine thing I would say isn’t true, good magazines are relatively easy to find nowadays. It’s just like the whole “dwell time” thing you’ll see in any thread about barrels that are shorter than 11.5, even though there are tens of thousands of 10.5s out there running fine. The problem has been effectively solved for a long time, but social memory is hard to overcome.

I’ve got 20 Duramags in 10/26rd configuration and have no problems with them. There’s other great options out there, too. Like all magazines every once in a while you’ll need to tweak feed lips or something for proper function but that is cartridge independent.

On 6mm ARC, specifically for a mountain gun, you need to be mindful of your quarry and ranges. If you’re going after larger game at extended ranges I’d look at something else that will have more residual energy at the longer distances. 6mm Creedmoor or any of the other 6mm larger cartridges if you want to stay in the 6mm family, 6.5mm Creedmoor, etc.

 

[cruiserweight]

The magazine thing I would say isn’t true, good magazines are relatively easy to find nowadays. It’s just like the whole “dwell time” thing you’ll see in any thread about barrels that are shorter than 11.5, even though there are tens of thousands of 10.5s out there running fine. The problem has been effectively solved for a long time, but social memory is hard to overcome.

I’ve got 20 Duramags in 10/26rd configuration and have no problems with them. There’s other great options out there, too. Like all magazines every once in a while you’ll need to tweak feed lips or something for proper function but that is cartridge independent.

On 6mm ARC, specifically for a mountain gun, you need to be mindful of your quarry and ranges. If you’re going after larger game at extended ranges I’d look at something else that will have more residual energy at the longer distances. 6mm Creedmoor or any of the other 6mm larger cartridges if you want to stay in the 6mm family, 6.5mm Creedmoor, etc.

Right, that last paragraph is something I should mentioned in the cons of the 6mm ARC; that it’s not suited for game bigger than deer. And when you think about it that way, there’s not a lot of reason to invest into unless I started shooting matches and reloading. Thanks for that tip. Helped me to not buy an upper I wouldn’t have a real use for right now.

 

[ormandj]

Right, that last paragraph is something I should mentioned in the cons of the 6mm ARC; that it’s not suited for game bigger than deer. And when you think about it that way, there’s not a lot of reason to invest into unless I started shooting matches and reloading. Thanks for that tip. Helped me to not buy an upper I wouldn’t have a real use for right now.

With the right bullet, like GMX, bigger game (not tough skinned African plain stuff, mind you) would be fine inside 300, but I wouldn’t do dangerous game or longer shots. The bigger cartridges will definitely give you more flexibility in all of the above, your trade off is recoil and weight to compensate as well as ammo. It all depends on the compromises you want to make. Let’s be clear - I would not personally move to a large frame ar10. For a mountain gun I’d do a lightweight bolt action in 6.5CM or PRC depending on what I was hunting and what ranges.

 

[M8541Reaper]

I know you mentioned the weight concern of the MWS, but you also mentioned the mountains. You typically lose durability when you prioritize weight, and felt weight is subjective, so that’s something to consider.

One drop or slip while traversing your route, you’ll be glad you went with something that’s durable. Just don’t cover it with tacticool BS and go with the MLOK or SLK models and a CTR/RISR or DMR stock for quick adjustability without being fixed/full size. This will give you the best system to adjust to your various environments, while remaining slim.

The quick barrel/caliber swap is super beneficial if you’re concerned with adapting to changing environments without the need for a smith or clamps/tools.

 

[Ape_Factory]

Take a look at the POF Revolution DI. It's light (6.7lbs), about the same weight as the V7 without the use of exotic materials and considerably less money. It's also truly the size of an AR15. 308 is heavy as others have mentioned but generally speaking, I can find it on the shelves of major stores in a wide variety of options. POF also has the Rogue but the fit and finish on that rifle isn't on the same level as the Revolution DI which is pretty much a work of art. You can find them around the $2300 range. Downside is that the ammo is heavy as previously mentioned. If you're hunting, you can use 5 round mags to keep the gun weight down.

 

[steve123]

6mmARC would be fine for a 500Y shot on a deer. Ammo would be lighter to carry. Small frame AR built as a lightweight would be a honey to carry. Just don't go with a super short barrel, do 18-22".

I haven't owned a 6.5 Creed AR. but did have a 308, a 243Win, a 243WSSM, and a 6mmART40 and now a 6mmFatRat. I like these G based 6's a lot, they are just neat little long range cartridges that excel for what they are. I like that the recoil isn't much more than a 223 with heavy bullets. You can't appreciate these until you ring one out. Don't cheap out on the barrel is my top suggestion!

I was just shooting my 6mmFatRat yesterday, I hadn't used it in months because I've been shooting the bolt rifle, I was reminded how easy it is to hit steel in the wind with it! It's so pleasant and capable.

It's all a compromise, one here and another there, just pick which you can suffer the least.

 

[Cheyenne Bodie]

Lightweight means a proof barrel and a TBAC Ultra, short mlok rail to cover the block, light weight optic. I'd go AR15 in Grendel for AR15 or 6.5 CM for large frame. The whole SHTF thing I'm not even gonna get to, just build a hunting rifle if you're gonna be a hunter, I'd even go with a bolt action for pretty much anything but hogs. If you wanna defend your home from a buncha soy boys with a pipe hitter complex there are other sites, and guns, for that. Proper training and being morally principled are going to be of more advantage to you than rifle specs.