AUG or AR15

C

cobaltbomb

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Nov 2, 2009
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austria europe
#1
im currently in the process of deciding for an semi auto rifle in .223 it will be my shtf/ plinking rifle , as i can only have 2 semi auto guns on my firearms permit atm, the other one is a glock 34.

in my country unfortunately only 3 different kinds of semi auto .223 guns with high capacity mags from 3 manufacturers are allowed in a special austria configuration, and available on the market. due to that fact prices are high

they must not have bajonett lugs, and flash hiders.
they must not be interchnagable with military full auto systems, so the 3 manufacturers made minor adjustments to the systems.

they are:
SIG 550 cost 3000 Euro (!)
STEYER AUG ZA3 for 2200 Euro
DI driven AR 15 from oberland arms also 2200 Euro

steyr-aug-a3.jpg


oa_15_m5_ars_small.jpg


i rule out the sig because of the price tag, the other two are not cheap either, but thats what happenes when the competition and the market is so limited as in my country due to the stupid law.

i know both rifles are good, i have shot the AUG during my time in the military,its the service rifle in my country. i like the overall ergonomics, the short length and the reliability is good.
it has a piston system, magazines are cheap in my country . the bad thing is the weak side problem due to rounds beeing extracted right in your face when shot around a corner from the weak side.

the ar 15 is americas rifle and time has shown its reliability, if cleaned properly. the after market is hughe, so there are better triggers, and rail systems etc. available for it. ergonomics are excellent, and there is no weak side problem.

what do you guys think i should get












 
#4
Re: AUG or AR15

In your case, being in Austria, I'd get the AUG. AR's are great and there are many more accessories and such... But those are here in the U.S. and you would probably not be able to get many of them shipped into Austria. The AUG is made right where you are and if there are accessories to be had, what better place to get them then right there in Austria. If you were in the U.S. there would be no question... AR. But in Austria... AUG.
 
#5
Re: AUG or AR15

My vote would be for the AR.

Getting parts/accessories (even for the single shot versions we have to have here in the UK) is not too much of a problem - only issue is that maybe the price and choice is not as good/wide as the US.

Midway have subsidiaries or franchises in the UK and elsewhere in Europe. Oberland Arms market their own aftermarket bits

If you want some really "Gucci" bits ( Austrian import regs allowing) and have the patience to go through the US State Dept Export procedures then it is possible to find vendors in the US to buy from.
 
#6
Re: AUG or AR15

I find it interesting that knowing you're in Austria and already familiar with the AUG, everyone is recommending the AR. Believe me, I'm not complaining. I have quite a few AR's myself and I don't own an AUG... But I do like the AUG. That said, if you can in fact get parts readily for the AR, then I guess I'd say AR too.

The only other thing that "sticks in my crawl" a little bit is the price. You can get a good AR here in the States for around $900 but an AUG is at least twice that! If I could get an AUG for the same price as an AR here in the U.S. I'd get the AUG... But that's just me
 
#7
Re: AUG or AR15

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cobaltbomb</div><div class="ubbcode-body">they are:
SIG 550 cost 3000 Euro (!)
STEYER AUG ZA3 for 2200 Euro
DI driven AR 15 from oberland arms also 2200 Euro

</div></div>

Please tell me that includes VAT. Even if it is with VAT, it is substantially more for what is a domestic firearm to you than we pay. That is sad... prohibitive pricing in place of prohibition.
 
#8
Re: AUG or AR15

Go for the AUG. Had one and loved it. Parts should be easier to get where you are. They are reliable and they are decently accurate. Oh, and they're fun as well! Ah, I just saw that you have used it before. Go with what you are familiar with. If it really is gonna be a SHTF rifle, then you want something that you know and have worked with. Just my .02.
 
#10
Re: AUG or AR15

I like the weight of the AUG. Like I said, I haven't owned one but I have a friend who has a Full-Auto version and the weight certainly helps when you're trying to stay on target with that little Swarovski Scope they put on them and you're firing full-auto. It's just a little hard to get used to that 2-stage trigger.
 
#11
Re: AUG or AR15

I guess it comes down to personal preference and what you feel most comfortable with.

I have a number or AR's in different configerations. I also have and AUG-Z. I personally prefer shooting the 20" barrelled AR over my 20" AUG. Main reason is the trigger. Maybe I just need to spend more time shooting the AUG.
grin.gif


Like others guys have mentioned there is a huge number of accessories available for AR's. Seeing as you are in Austria though this may be irrelavent due to your laws. So AUG parts and accessories may be easier (and cheaper)to get for you.

If you've trained on the AUG and like it then maybe thats the rifle for you. If possible try them both before you buy.

IMG_0028.jpg
 
#12
Re: AUG or AR15

to ansewer the questions that came up:
the prices do include taxes

aftermarket parts are allowed for the ar, but due to itar shipping directly from the us can be a problem, but midway germany or europpean based stores do sell without a problem.
and there is a la rue store in norway as far as i know :)

i am aware that the AUG trigger is not the best, from what i have been told, a bit graphite on the right spots and the triger tamer kit enhances the feel.

still an AR match tigger is superior.

i know a decent AR can be very accurate around 1 moa or better, is the same true for the AUG ?

if i get the ar what barrel length would you recommend ? 16 in, 18 in 20 in?

i didnt know an AR has less wight than an AUG, and jeah the nodrop free thing is no advantage of the AR definitely

so far thanks for the input
 
#14
Re: AUG or AR15

I thought the AUG had an ambidextrous ejection port, just a cover that you swap to the other side? I can't be mistaken with the MSAR, I'm pretty sure its the AUG that has this feature..?
 
#15
Re: AUG or AR15

worst case, could you epoxy a brass deflector onto the AUG to fix the weak side problem? Sure it wouldn't look pretty, but if it gets the job done...

I've never held one so I don't know how far forward your cheek goes on the stock
 
#16
Re: AUG or AR15

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Powder Burns</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I thought the AUG had an ambidextrous ejection port, just a cover that you swap to the other side? I can't be mistaken with the MSAR, I'm pretty sure its the AUG that has this feature..? </div></div>

Think you also have to swap out the bolt as well.
 
#21
Re: AUG or AR15

Opinion from my <span style="text-decoration: underline">personal</span> experience - AUG is far more convenient (greater ergonomics) than AR15, also more compact, also more reliable and much more tolerant to "imperfect" cleaning. it is true that you can find more accessories for AR - but ask yourself how much of that you really need (after all it's a rifle - not an exhibition piece). Also, the ability to quickly switch barrels in the field - like replacing a shorter 16" barrel with 24" heavy - could be important for you.

Yes you can switch the ejection to the left side, and yes you need to replace the bolt with the "left-handed" one besides switching the ejection slot cover (all field-replaceable, but probably not in the midst of firefight
smile.gif
).
 
#24
Re: AUG or AR15

go AR, depending on your laws, you can have multiple length uppers for different purposes. There are so many accessories, spare parts and upgrades available your gun will never stop running. I own 2 ARs along with 1 Sig. I have a DMR type rifle and my standard Mil Spec type Carbine. The Sig is my SBR project at the moment. I have owned the full length rifle and it gets real heavy once you start putting accessories on the rifle. I would say that my 2 ARs are the same weight loaded with lights and sights as the Sig out of the box. just my $.02
 
#25
Re: AUG or AR15

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">go AR, depending on your laws, you can have multiple length uppers for different purposes.</div></div>
With AUG it becomes totally unnecessary because you can change barrels in the field with a trivial 20-seconds operation (you can also change receivers in the field - and easier than on AR, but we digress). For AUG I'm aware of barrels in 14", 16", 18", 20", and 24" with bipod (for DMR). All can take bayonet lug if you ever expect to go charging ith it
smile.gif
. AUG with say 16" barrel (let along 14" - or even 11" of which I've heard but haven't seen) is going to be a real SBR (Short-Barrel Rifle) compared to anything AR is likely to offer - and with better muzzle velocity because of extra some inches of barrel (or - for builds with equal barrel length - with shorter overall frame).

I'm told there are also caliber changes available for AUG - though did not verify.

Speaking of weight - AUG would weight about the same as AR, so no gain here either way. But it (IMHO) <span style="text-decoration: underline">handles so much better</span>. Moving with it just felt natural weight distribution-wise - unlike AR-15.

Speaking of accessories - I never liked making my rifle a Christmas tree of gadgets. Understandably, tastes differ - a useless gadget for one is a bare necessity for another. Still, I never noticed that I'm missing something with the limited set of accessories available for AUG here in US. I suspect that in Austria AUG accessories would be <span style="text-decoration: underline">easier</span> and cheaper to acquire than AR accessories (IMHO). In US it the opposite, of course.
 
#26
Re: AUG or AR15

Here is a range report I posted comparing the accuracy potential of the MSAR to my AR's. I know its not an Aug but I have found its comparable in the accuracy department to Augs I have fired.
Range Report 4-26-10 and 4-27-10
Guns Tested
MSAR STG556
JamesMSAR1.jpg

Noveske N4
NoveskeDesc.jpg

Larue Stealth
Laruedesc.jpg

GAP AR10
GAPAR10.jpg


Loads tested.
52 grain Sierra Boat Tails loaded with N135 and H335
77 grain Sierra Boat Tails
55 grain Ball loaded with H335

STG556 TESTING

On 4-26-10 my primary goal was to test a load for my roommate who is also going to Larue. He was up in Anchorage at his girl friends so he could not go to the range and the match is coming up soon. So I took out his STG 556 to do some grouping.

During the last month or so I have tested a lot of different loads in his gun. So far the only bullet that works marginally well is Sierra’s 52 grain boat tail match. His gun does not like 69 or 75 or 77 grain bullets.

I loaded him up some rounds using N135 and these are the results I got.
On the chrono his velocity was not bad.

1. 3049
2. 3070
3. 3097
4. 3147
5. 3086
Average 3090
Spread 98

Accuracy over both days 15 groups fired 1.92

The next day I tried a load using H335 in his gun. It was even worse.

Chrono data
1. 3057
2. 3047
3. 3080
4. 3038
Average 3055
Spread 42 fps

Average group out of 9 5 shot groups fired 3.56
Best 1.866
Worst 5.026

I also chromed his gun using a 55 grain ball reload I had reloaded using H335

1. 2983
2. 2972
3. 2978
4. 2983
5. 2969
Average 2977
Spread 14 fps

I also fired the 52 grain SMK’s loaded with both N135 and H335 in my Noveske and Larue. I shot 5, 5 shot groups with each in each gun.
Here are the results.

Noveske Results

Velocity of N135 52 grain SMK load

1. 2983
2. 3002
3. 2985
4. 2960
5. 2952
Average 2976
Spread 50
52graingroupwithNoveskeh335.jpg

Average Group size. 1.201
Worst 1.716
Best .731

Velocity and accuracy of H335 52 grain SMK load

1. 2972
2. 2964
3. 2971
4. 2988
5. 2975
Average 2974

Average group size 1.284
Best .736
Worst 1.756

I also fired some more of my 77 grain match loads.

Average group size 1.27
Worst 1.486
Best .776

I also fired 5, 5 shot groups with a new 55 grain FMJ practice load I made.
Here are the results.
1. 2864
2. 2884
3. 2876
4. 2909
5. 2895
Average 2887
Spread 45

Average group 2.3
Best 1.77
Worst 2.776

Conclusion.

So far with match bullets the Noveske is a 1.25 moa gun or so regardless of bullet weight. It likes the heavy bullets as well as the light 52 grain ones. So much for a 1/7 twist being a bad choice with light bullet.

Larue Stealth results.

The Larue was tested as well with the 52 grain bullets, ball and the 77 grain SMK’s

52 grain SMK loaded with N135

1. 3099
2. 3106
3. 3080
4. 3125
5. 3114
Average 3105
Spread 45

Average group 1.35
Best .876
Worst 1.65

52 grain SMK loaded with H335

1. 3095
2. 3122
3. 3117
4. 3137
5. 3079
Average 3110
Spread 58 fps

Average group size 1.563
Best 1.286
Worst 2.006

Ball
BallinLaruegood.jpg

Ballbadlarue.jpg



1. 2998
2. 2997
3. 3084
4. 3019
5. 3030
Average 3025
Spread 87

Average group 1.935
Best .826
Worst 2.776

77 grain SMK loaded with N135
Laruegroups4-27-10.jpg

Group 1. .67
Group 2. .511
Group 3. .676
Group 4. .636
Group 5. .551

Average .61

This load has averaged just over .6 for all 20 some 5 shot groups fired. I want to get a machine rest to test this load.

Conclusion with Larue.

Its scary accurate with 77 grain bullets. It does ok with 52 grain bullets but not as accurate as the Noveske is with the 52 grain SMK’s. It did ok with ball ammo reloads.

I fired a qualification with the Larue to get it put on the books at the department.

QualfiredwithLarueStealthcopy.jpg

Dropped 1 point.

GAP AR10 testing


I was having some issues of late with my GAP AR10. I was getting bolt bounce. Meaning the carrier would slam forward and jump out of battery. I also could not extract the case that was in the chamber unless I fired it. This was more of a problem on my reloads but it happened once in a while with Federal Match. I tweaked my die settings and it helped but did not solve the problem. I discovered that the heavy buffer I had installed which is solid was causing the bolt bounce. It worked fine before I got a muzzle brake installed but after that it would not work 100%. I also got malfunctions when firing off hand and kneeling. I put the stock buffer back into the gun. As for the extraction issue I had been here before with my AR10 carbine. AR10’s wear out their extractor’s and ejectors much faster than AR15’s. I ordered a new extractor, extractor spring, buffer and o ring from Armalite. I also ordered an ejector spring. Putting these parts in my gun fixed the functioning problem. I fired a qualification course that has moving and shooting, kneeling and standing shots in to test the gun. I had no issues.
QualfiredwithLarueStealth.jpg

As for accuracy. I found that my cold bore shot has been low the last few range visits and far from the group opening the group up 2 or more inches.
url]


I am still learning how to get good accuracy from my .308. It’s a harder gun to shoot well. My best groups are below.
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While I have gotten days where I shot an average of under 1 moa with this rifle with Federal Match. I can not count on that. Its more of a 1.25 moa rifle in my hands. It is capable of more but I need to work on my skill with it. I still like shooting it as its fun to hit the steel ram at the 550 yard line at the Kenai range making everyone jealous.
url]


I know I have jumped around a bit in this review. That was too make it simpler to write keeping to one gun at a time even though they were fired over 2 days.

Here is how the MSAR, Noveske and Larue stacked against each other using the same ammo.

1. Noveske 1.201 with N135 and 1.284 with H335 Best accuracy with this ammo
2. Larue 1.35 with N135 and 1.563 with H335
3. MSAR 1.918 with N135 load and 3.56 with H335 (it hated this load)
The MSAR was harder for me to shoot. Trigger sucked big time and I noticed that you had to be careful about how you held it on the back. You could make the group walk by putting too much pressure in any one spot. The groups also tended to walk to the right as the barrel heated up. It showed great potential with some groups then it would open right up. It had a bad problem with fliers. I would have 4 shots that were great at times and then 1 way off. Sometimes it was 3 and 2.


Practical shooting exercise.

Bench shooting is fun but it really only tests the gun not the shooter. I am getting ready for the Larue Tactical Three gun match so I spent the second half of the range day on 4-27-10 working on the following drills. I did all these drills with the Noveske, my patrol rifle and the gun I am taking to Larue.


I put three half sized USPSA targets at 100 yards. At the buzzer I fired 2 rounds into each target. I repeated this drill until my 30 round mag was empty. (5 times.)

Results.
Time
1. 8.91
2. 15.22
3. 10.94
4. 14.22
5. 9.06

Hits
Target 1 4 A’s 4 C’s 1 D
Target 2 8 A’s 2 C’s
Target 3. 4 A’s 5 C’s 1 D

I repeated the drill again

1. 8.62
2. 9.51
3. 11.04
4. 9.32
5. 11.65

Target 1 5A 2C 3 D
Target 2 6A 2C 1 D 1 Miss
Target 3 2A 6C 2D

I repeated the drill again

1. 11.17
2. 11.54
3. 12.39
4. 11.24
5. 11.08

Target 1 7A 3C
Target 2 3A 6C 1 Miss
Target 3 5A 4C 1 Miss

The next drill I tried was the same target array but shooting left handed around the left side of a barricade. I suck with my left side but here are the numbers.

Time
1. 20.03
2. 26.75
3. 22.22
4. 23.36
5. 25.47
6. 25.72
7. 21.64
8. 32.90
9. 31.34
10. 24.25


Hits (totaled to make reporting easier)

33 A
17 C
6 D
4 Misses

The next thing I tried was a new course of fire I created by modifying the department rifle qualification to make it harder.

Stage 1. 100 yards. Start in low ready. 8 seconds
At the buzzer fire 3 rounds to center mass in 8 seconds.


Stage 2 50 yards. 8 seconds

Start slung.
At the buzzer fire 3 rounds to center mass in 8 seconds.

Stage 3. reload stage 10 seconds

Start with a magazine loaded with no more than 4 rounds. From a slung position fire 6 rounds off hand in 10 seconds. You will have to reload when you run dry.

Stage 4. 15 yards.

Start in a slung position at the buzzer fire 3 rounds center mass then drop to kneeling and fire 3 rounds into the head.


Stage 5 Moving and shooting 10 yard line to the 5 yard line 6 rounds 3 seconds.

Start in low ready at the buzzer fire 6 rounds while you advance to the 5 yard line in 3 seconds.


Starge 6 fail to stop. (do this drill twice) 5 yard line 3 rounds (2 to body 1 to head) 1.5 seconds

Start in low ready at the buzzer fire 2 rounds to the chest and then 1 to the head in less than 1.5 seconds.

I did this new course twice and found it much more challenging.

My first score was 133 out of 150 (passing is 120)
My second score was 138 out of 150

I found this more fun that the course I made for the department which is no longer challenging.

At the end of the second day I went through a lot of rounds.
url]

url]


I had a good time and hopefully improved my skills a bit for the match and for life.
 
#27
Re: AUG or AR15

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mouse07410</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Opinion from my <span style="text-decoration: underline">personal</span> experience - AUG is far more convenient (greater ergonomics) than AR15, also more compact, also more reliable and much more tolerant to "imperfect" cleaning. it is true that you can find more accessories for AR - but ask yourself how much of that you really need (after all it's a rifle - not an exhibition piece). Also, the ability to quickly switch barrels in the field - like replacing a shorter 16" barrel with 24" heavy - could be important for you.

Yes you can switch the ejection to the left side, and yes you need to replace the bolt with the "left-handed" one besides switching the ejection slot cover (all field-replaceable, but probably not in the midst of firefight
smile.gif
). </div></div>

I disagree. Ergonomics is the AR's strong point. I can reload an AR in 1.71 seconds with a bad lever and a mag coupler and 2.05 with a belt mag. The best Aug shooters are not even close and I am not that great at reloads.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZkGNFa66vs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMGR4gZtVkI

I don't have it on video but when I try to reload my friends MSAR the best I can do is around 3.5 seconds.
JamesMSAR1.jpg


Also its a myth that you need to clean an AR perfectly to keep it running. False. You do need to keep it lubed but being clean is not required. I have put over 1500 rounds through my Noveske without cleaning or lubing it after my initial lube without a malfunction.
NoveskeDesc.jpg


I have put over 2000 rounds through my Colt 6920 with the same results.
Coltdesc.jpg


The Aug is not that ergonomic. Try shooting from your weak shoulder with it. The Aug also has a terrible trigger and its practical accuracy is not anywhere near what a good AR's is. In my tests the best an Aug can hope to group at 100 yards is just under 2 moa. Ar's can half that. The Aug is a good bull pup that offers a compact rifle with out going to a super short barrel. But that is the only real advantage it offers. Again this is based on my personal experience shooting my friends MSAR and my own former (sold it) Steyr USR.
 
#28
Re: AUG or AR15

Well Alaska Cop, I tried shooting AUG weak-shoulder and it was fine (but I cheated - used brass catcher
smile.gif
). I guess it's the matter of tastes. I hated handling of M16A2 and of AR-15 (could be because I'm small-framed?), and AUG felt almost perfect.

AUG factory trigger is a well-known issue, but there are simple ways of improving it.

I also noticed that the scopes you had on MSAR,Noveske and Colt are not favoring MSAR. And you seem to have tons more training and education in M16-style rifles. That might bias your report, would you think?

Some people say that AR can give better accuracy than AUG. Perhaps.
 
#29
Re: AUG or AR15

I have many fine Ar 15's and just recently picked up Steyr Aug A3. Love the Aug but it takes time to get used to it with the heavy trigger pull and different ergonomics. I shoot M4/ acog 1-2 moa all the time and first time with Aug with acog yielded 6-8 moa. But I believe these figures to shrink quickly the more I shoot the Aug. I love both Aug and Ar 15 but if just one could be had it would be the AR 15/ M4
 
#30
Re: AUG or AR15

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mouse07410</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well Alaska Cop, I tried shooting AUG weak-shoulder and it was fine (but I cheated - used brass catcher
smile.gif
). I guess it's the matter of tastes. I hated handling of M16A2 and of AR-15 (could be because I'm small-framed?), and AUG felt almost perfect.

AUG factory trigger is a well-known issue, but there are simple ways of improving it.

I also noticed that the scopes you had on MSAR,Noveske and Colt are not favoring MSAR. And you seem to have tons more training and education in M16-style rifles. That might bias your report, would you think?

Some people say that AR can give better accuracy than AUG. Perhaps. </div></div>
The Elcan 1 and 4x is an excellent scope. Not sure why you think its inferrior. In some ways I like it better than my Swarovski. It has a bullet drop compensator. I do have more training on the AR15. But its hard to argue that its not an easier weapon to shoot. Trigger is easier, safety is easier to reach, bolt stock is easier, mag release is easier. Its also more accurate. The Aug is a good gun but in my opinion the AR has it beat.
Pat
 
#31
Re: AUG or AR15

Thanks for all the anseweres first of all

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">One thing guess what the Austrian special forces use</div></div>

from my information the Austrian "jagdkommando" wich is the army special forces use steyer augs A3, AUG9mm silenced, uzi, glock 18, steyer SSG 04, several pumguns . same for the Swat like cobra teams.
the AUGs A3 of our elite units have a pretty useless scope /red dot combo.
they have a 1,5X scope from swaro, and a red dot piggypack above, wich is a quite useless combo, i think
on the useless combination you can estimate how much funds and love go into our army.

the AUG is probably not as accurate as a good ar with rails, as it is not a freefloater.

allthough i know a guy who has both a steyer AUG z and an OA 15 with 20"" bbl and he das developed sub MOA loads for both.
allthough he says one has to support the AUG allways the same way, to get that good groups

i will very likely go for the AR with a 16,3/4 inch bbl and a recoil brake (flash hider not allowed here , just like in commifornia)
i chose the AR because of trigger options, free float of the barrel, mounting options, ergonomics, aftermarket stuff,and also the ability to use a 22lr conversion kit, which allows me to train for ipsc very cheap on my local 50m handgun range, where all the barrikades etc is available.
with a good break the .223 will feel like the .22lr without a break anyways
am thinking of using a cheap nikon buckmaster scope and a burris fastfire with the daniel defense offset mount for now. both i have lying around, just need to orer the daniel defense offset mount then.
do you think the daniel defense offset /burris fastfire combo will work?

i will need a scope with a high magnification on it till i have developed a good load for the ar , and maybe change it later to something better, when funds allow me too, for example an ACOG.
 
#32
Re: AUG or AR15

I apologize my information was wrong about the Austrian Special Forces. I had read a thread indicating that nearly all countries that issue bull pubs have their special forces using M4's This is the case with Britain. The Aug in my experience is not as accurate as a non free floated AR. I am going by my own personal experience.
The Aug is a good weapon but the AR is better. I will say the Aug is the best of the bullpups.
Pat
 
#33
Re: AUG or AR15

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Alaskapopo</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I apologize my information was wrong about the Austrian Special Forces. I had read a thread indicating that nearly all countries that issue bull pubs have their special forces using M4's This is the case with Britain. The Aug in my experience is not as accurate as a non free floated AR. I am going by my own personal experience.
The Aug is a good weapon but the AR is better. I will say the Aug is the best of the bullpups.
Pat </div></div>

Are you sure you are not thinking that the Australian SAS use M4's not Austrian? the main reason is the accesories available for the M4 like lasers and other NVD's and also to be compatable with other units they are working with.
 
#35
Re: AUG or AR15

What can I say? Between normal-sized M16A2 (and AR-15) and AUG - I felt AUG much better handling. Is it because of my small(er) body frame? Don't know. Several people here state that they experienced the opposite. It's interesting to me to figure out why - but it hardly matters.

I like AUG - I shoot AUG. You like AR - fine, enjoy it!
smile.gif
 
#36
Re: AUG or AR15

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mouse07410</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What can I say? Between normal-sized M16A2 (and AR-15) and AUG - I felt AUG much better handling. Is it because of my small(er) body frame? Don't know. Several people here state that they experienced the opposite. It's interesting to me to figure out why - but it hardly matters.

I like AUG - I shoot AUG. You like AR - fine, enjoy it!
smile.gif
</div></div>

No worries we all feel the need to defend our choices and prefrences. I can appreciate why people like the AUG. My roomate is one such a person. They are a good rifle. But as I stated I prefer the AR. Different strokes for different folks.
Pat
 
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