Aurora Colorado Police shooting of Viet Vet

[Foul Mike]

I am sorry I am not good enough with computers to post links etc. but it is above my skill set.--Anyway
A while back an old Viet Vet shot some asshole who had broken into his house, naked, tore the door down, and was assaulting a member of the Vets family.
Calls to 911 brought the Aurora PD to the scene whereupon an Office shot and killed the Vet when he didn't respond to Put your gun down as friends of the naked man had or were exiting the scene after the Vet had shot and killed the intruder.
What a Shit Sandwich to say the least but the Officer was cleared and back on duty. A legal shoot but a bad shoot as well in my opinion.
There is video of the incident but damned if I can put it up, however, I did find it disturbing.
Maybe one of you computer gurus can put it up and we can discuss some of the Basic rules of firearm safety, like Identify your target. FM

 

[deersniper]

The same rules should apply to everyone.
If police can wait 24 or more hours before making a statement, they shouldn't badger a private citizen involved in a shooting for an immediate statement.

 

[Centuriator]

Why did he not put his gun down?

 

[Bull Arms]

My first thought is that it probably wasn't a problem of target identification, subjects on most critical incident scenes usually are not wearing a shirt that says "Good Guy" or "Bad Guy" and thus the officer presumably encountered an armed person at a shooting that was not complying with commands to disarm. It's a bad deal no matter how you look at it, I wasn't there and don't know what actually went down and wouldn't want to armchair quarterback the situation. Unfortunate situation for the family of the guy shot and the officer involved.

 

[ArmyJerry]

hmmmm, another home owner killed, just stop calling the police its safer that way.

 

[W54/XM-388]

I am sorry I am not good enough with computers to post links etc. but it is above my skill set.--Anyway
A while back an old Viet Vet shot some asshole who had broken into his house, naked, tore the door down, and was assaulting a member of the Vets family.
Calls to 911 brought the Aurora PD to the scene whereupon an Office shot and killed the Vet when he didn't respond to Put your gun down as friends of the naked man had or were exiting the scene after the Vet had shot and killed the intruder.
What a Shit Sandwich to say the least but the Officer was cleared and back on duty. A legal shoot but a bad shoot as well in my opinion.
There is video of the incident but damned if I can put it up, however, I did find it disturbing.
Maybe one of you computer gurus can put it up and we can discuss some of the Basic rules of firearm safety, like Identify your target. FM

Eventually the good righteous citizens of this country will have had all they can take of the police killing without consequence or thought because they were "scared" or "their balls felt shriveled up" or "mistook something they saw" and getting away with it.
Eventually the tables will start being turned and it will start being "well the uniformed guy moved his hands towards his waist so I was in fear for my life..."

That officer should have at the very least been permanently barred from putting on a uniform out of respect for the hero he cowardly gunned down. Apparently he thinks he can execute citizens for using their constitutional rights the way they were intended.

If boot lickers want to play the excuse, well he had a gun in his hands (as is his rights) so of course the police should shoot him dead.
Perhaps let's see if they feel the same way when the tables are turned. It's going to come to that before long unless somebody in the government starts holding the police accountable and make them obey the same laws the rest of us have to obey.

 

[Milo 2.5]

Why did he not put his gun down?

If you look into it, it was said he suffered from hearing loss, I'm not saying this was the cause. In the vid I saw, the victim had a confused look on his face and his gun was pointed to the ground, it escalated quickly after, not sure what he did to provoke.

 

[deersniper]

When this results in no charges/no firings etc it will just get worse. They know there are no consequences so shoot the person or dog first and ask questions later.
At the very least settlements should come out of the PD budget and retirement fund. Would give them some incentive to police their own and keep the f ups off the street. " Oh joe officer was criminally negligent now we don't get new cars every year, had to sell the apc's and our retirement account took a hit. ". Instead of "lol looks like the tax slaves will have to work harder this year"

 

[Rthur]

When this results in no charges/no firings etc it will just get worse. They know there are no consequences so shoot the person or dog first and ask questions later.
At the very least settlements should come out of the PD budget and retirement fund. Would give them some incentive to police their own and keep the f ups off the street. " Oh joe officer was criminally negligent now we don't get new cars every year, had to sell the apc's and our retirement account took a hit. ". Instead of "lol looks like the tax slaves will have to work harder this year"

Why wouldn't a member of the team move forward on left side of the hallway while subject is being covered from the Camera/Officer and be immobilized?

R

 

[deersniper]

Why couldn't they tell him to interlace his hands on his head and walk backwards to them? Instead shout 100 different commands that a person under zero stress would have issues following and add on telling him they were going to kill him a bunch of times. That whole team should be in jail.

Sorry. There are less hero/brave cops every day. A lot more pussies that are scared of their own shadow and will shoot someone with zero reason.

 

[ArmyJerry]

because there were other guys with guns who were acting unstable.

Why did he not put his gun down?

 

[ArmyJerry]

outright murder right there

When this results in no charges/no firings etc it will just get worse. They know there are no consequences so shoot the person or dog first and ask questions later.
At the very least settlements should come out of the PD budget and retirement fund. Would give them some incentive to police their own and keep the f ups off the street. " Oh joe officer was criminally negligent now we don't get new cars every year, had to sell the apc's and our retirement account took a hit. ". Instead of "lol looks like the tax slaves will have to work harder this year"

 

[bullseye13]

Why couldn't they tell him to interlace his hands on his head and walk backwards to them? Instead shout 100 different commands that a person under zero stress would have issues following and add on telling him they were going to kill him a bunch of times. That whole team should be in jail.

Sorry. There are less hero/brave cops every day. A lot more pussies that are scared of their own shadow and will shoot someone with zero reason.

There is a whole police force in my town that were kids that got the books knocked out of there hands when they were in high school and wanted to be cops so they could demand respect. I generally always side with law enforcement because they have a thankless job that hears the same lies from citizens every day. BUT, if you have a problem with people defending themselves, people questioning WTF your thinking without Tazering everyone that looks at you cross eyed. Then you picked the wrong job.

 

[sharac]

Nice execution. He even earned some additional time why waste someone outright when you can fuck them verbally and mentally and then shoot them... Really can't believe this was not 1st degree murder as the cops clearly mindfucked clearly upset person who posed absolutely no danger to life perhaps to nose as he was about to shit himself... And some of you make fun of Russia this are Soviet NKVD times right there at your home...

 

[ArmyJerry]

if the victim was my relative that guy would not be breathing free and probably not at all.

Nice execution. He even earned some additional time why waste someone outright when you can fuck them verbally and mentally and then shoot them... Really can't believe this was not 1st degree murder as the cops clearly mindfucked clearly upset person who posed absolutely no danger to life perhaps to nose as he was about to shit himself... And some of you make fun of Russia this are Soviet NKVD times right there at your home...

 

[101stinfantry]

I can see both sides of this story. Cops respond to a shooting (deadly force has already been used by someone), they don't know who is the bad guy, and who is the good guy.....hell in a lot of situations they are both bad guys. On the flip side they shoot and kill a guy that didn't look like he was being aggressive (to me anyway). When did LE adopt ROE that you can shoot anyone with a gun?
Either way that was a bad shoot, and I would agree that when LE faces no consequences for shooting the wrong guy, raiding the wrong house, etc. it looks bad, and fosters resentment, and anger towards them, which is not a positive.

 

[sharac]

Bomb disposal teams also do not "due to them bombs going boom sometimes and you to heaven" nuke the entire town when someone finds old thingy somewhere during the construction work or do they ???

 

[W54/XM-388]

Bomb disposal teams also do not "due to them bombs going boom sometimes and you to heaven" nuke the entire town when someone finds old thingy somewhere during the construction work or do they ???

Hmm don't give them any ideas.

 

[Bull Arms]

Looks like there is more to the story, the officer who did the hallway shooting seen in the video sounds like a problem child that should have been let go long before the shooting. He was charged with murder, acquitted and now a new investigation has been reopened. The PD had fired him after the shooting for various reasons, to include having a dust cover on his rifle with "You're Fucked" engraved on it....bad apple.

 

[jakelly]

I think you meant “murderer” when you said “bad apple”.

 

[Jaymiller5]

Looked more like he couldnt hear the officer

 

[whatsupdoc]

Um, did the police officer announce that it was the police.

 

[bullseye13]

When this results in no charges/no firings etc it will just get worse. They know there are no consequences so shoot the person or dog first and ask questions later.
At the very least settlements should come out of the PD budget and retirement fund. Would give them some incentive to police their own and keep the f ups off the street. " Oh joe officer was criminally negligent now we don't get new cars every year, had to sell the apc's and our retirement account took a hit. ". Instead of "lol looks like the tax slaves will have to work harder this year"

That right there is fucked up. That douche should be locked up in prison with Toby and his homies and a tattoo on his back that says "Fuck me I dare you."

 

[ShooterwithNoName]

Um, did the police officer announce that it was the police.

Unless they did it before the video kicked on, I didn't hear them ID.

The video above of the hotel hallway shooting is cold blooded murder period. That fuckin kid was scared to death and crying. Any more info on that hotel hallway shooting? There's no way in hell that was warranted. Making someone who is scared, confused and probably drunk jump through 20 different positions until he messes up enough to shoot? He should've been ordered to do one thing, cuffed and drug out of there while another officer covered the doorway.

Its officers like this that put all police officers in more danger than is necessary. He wanted to shoot that guy, or wanted to shoot someone period. Murder.

 

[Shadow knows]

There is a whole police force in my town that were kids that got the books knocked out of there hands when they were in high school and wanted to be cops so they could demand respect. I generally always side with law enforcement because they have a thankless job that hears the same lies from citizens every day. BUT, if you have a problem with people defending themselves, people questioning WTF your thinking without Tazering everyone that looks at you cross eyed. Then you picked the wrong job.

Funny you bring this up, I know quite a few that are from high school that got pushed around that became cops and are dicks. Funny isn’t it.

 

[Foul Mike]

In the Aurora shooting they didn't shout out Police in the video I saw earlier, they started shouting Drop the gun, hands in the air etc. from several of them so it was quite confusing to me and I was only watching a video.
The Vet kept his gun at his side but did shine his flashlight out on the porch to see what was going on and the LEOs lit him up then.
He was hearing impaired and had just busted a couple of caps in close quarters into the naked black man who was assaulting his family member. He let the other blacks that were trying to control the naked guy pass then retreated to where he was shot and looked confused and dazed to me. He did shine his flashlight out towards the porch but held his gun down by his side. I wonder what he could hear at that point as I am sure his ears were ringing. The 911 dispatcher had given a discription of a naked black man out it is said but apparently that didn't get through to them as the Vet did not fit the discription, or they didn't care?
It was a tragic horrible shoot and maybe legal but I think the shooter should be up for manslaughter and if not he should never wear a badge again nor carry a gun, he just isn't wired right for that. I hope that haunts him til he dies.
I had not seen the Hallway shooting before but I think that was a cold callous Murder.
All of these LE Agencies need to police their ranks from within and those not cut out to be Officers need to be culled from the herd early on then maybe fewer of these incidents will happen, and they wonder why people have lost their trust and respect for them?

 

[jakelly]

In the Aurora video, look at the lights bathing the vets home. As mentioned earlier he probably couldn’t hear (regardless of what was/wasn’t said), and from the looks of it, couldn’t see either. I disagree with the concept of policing the ranks from within as a total solution, it needs to play it’s part, but equal application of existing laws is the foundation stone missing. If the police, Congress, CEOs, etc understand that they are accountable for bad decisions made “in the line of duty” the bad decisions will get a lot fewer and further between. The logic of justice has escaped us.

What law had the deceased broken? What threat did he make?
Who had identified him as a lawbreaker or threat?

That was, by definition, man slaughter.

 

[ArmyJerry]

There is no law anymore. Arm yourself and use your good judgment.

 

[XLR308]

That piece of shit needs to be executed by any means necessary before he manages to kill anymore unarmed civilians that are on their knees.

People need to wake the fuck up if the courts won't handle it then the obvious needs to happen.

 

[Foul Mike]

There will be people on this board who stand behind the Officers involved in this type of shooting and protect them and say,"What the Hell do you know about it? You aren't putting your life on the line and know how bad it is."
To them I will relate-
I spent 1969, boots on the ground, in the Infantry in Vietnam. I operated at a platoon and squad- team type level.
Most of the time we were out in free-fire zones where you could feel that for the most part anything that moved was hunting you, however, even there, there were these SF guys and their Yards that you had to watch out for and not accidentally hit them or some CIDG villagers around and all had guns.
We also had to go through small Villes with women, kids and old folks around as well as the occasional ARVN troop at home on leave with his rifle in hand.
Some of these people had guns, most not, but the ones that did you didn't just light them up. Target identification was drilled into us for operations like that and God help your ass if you fucked up and shot a"Friendly."because the US Army will prosecute you. That happened 2 times in my Bn. while I was there and it did not go well for the people involved.
Target Identification and Accountability. I came close but I never shot anyone who wasn't a combatant and they were very hard to identify.
The troops we had that weren't up to snuff and too quick to fire found a mortar base plate to carry or lots of shit to burn.
We Policed our own and took care of problems from within unless it was egregious then there was help from above and you didn't want that to say the least.
Unlike Police Officers here at home, I did NOT sign up for that shit, I was drafted but did my duties to the best of my abilities.
I think these past experiences make me more critical of these bad shoots and more critical of upper management and the rank and file for not preventing a lot of this shit. Police your own from within and weed out the bad. Not everyone has the mindset or talent to be a Police Officer. Regards, FM E/Co 5/7 Cav 1st. Cavalry Div 69/70 RVN

PS It is hard to believe that a bunch of 18-24 year old "Youths", unwilling Draftees, had more control over themselves, better fire discipline than today's Police Depts. and better training. Who would you want around to help you now?

 

[04JRB]

When this results in no charges/no firings etc it will just get worse. They know there are no consequences so shoot the person or dog first and ask questions later.
At the very least settlements should come out of the PD budget and retirement fund. Would give them some incentive to police their own and keep the f ups off the street. " Oh joe officer was criminally negligent now we don't get new cars every year, had to sell the apc's and our retirement account took a hit. ". Instead of "lol looks like the tax slaves will have to work harder this year"

Woah, I don't even know what to say. That is really fucked up.

 

[Foul Mike]

Those settlements should come right out of the Officer involved ass and bank accounts, not the Dept. and where applicable he should be in prison.
This free ride shit has to stop somewhere.
If you do something like that as a civilian it will be your ass on the line, not some Govt. Agency.
Hold some feet to the fire and don't just automatically give a "Get out of Jail Card Free"

 

[1J04]

What a shit show

 

[XLR308]

Those settlements should come right out of the Officer involved ass and bank accounts, not the Dept. and where applicable he should be in prison.
This free ride shit has to stop somewhere.
If you do something like that as a civilian it will be your ass on the line, not some Govt. Agency.
Hold some feet to the fire and don't just automatically give a "Get out of Jail Card Free"

I can't speak for anyone but myself but after watching what went down in the body cam footage in post #8 if it happened to me I know for a fact that would be one dead piece of shit the public wouldn't have to worry about anymore after some of my family saw it.
I would do the same for them.

 

[Snuby642]

The state that some of le has ended up in is incompetent and unexcusable.

The constant cover up and protection of the bad ones is criminal.

This is way to much of a widespread thing these days.

 

[Foul Mike]

Well, I started this Shit Show and for the most part am PROUD of all that have entered it. I think all of us are on the same page.

There are many many Great LEOs out there, God Bless them, and I think none would jump in and defend either the Aurora shooting or that Hallway shooting especially.

I think most would agree that a Policing within the rank and file needs to be done but I am also not so blind to not realize "That ain't happening." So watch your 6 and take care of yourself and others. Ray Charles and Stevie Wonder are hoping to see it as well.

With that thought in mind I would like to end this thread. There isn't anything positive to be said, other than," Where is Slapchop?"

Merry Christmas to all.

Foul Mike

 

[ArmyJerry]

Dam FM, you are old.

 

[Sniperwannabee]

Why did he not put his gun down?

probably because hes hard at hearing

 

[Blue Sky Country]

Been following this case pretty closely, both here and on Arfcom and I am going to call bad shoot as well.

But hard lessons are learned from this incident:

1. The police are going to be extra wary when responding to "MAN WITH A GUN" calls.

2. The police want to go home safely at the end of their shifts and they do not like to see armed folks that they don't know any backstories on.

3. It is simply NOT a good idea to meet the police with a gun in your hands.

4. And if you had been using a gun to defend yourself, it is a good thing NOT to be displaying that gun once the police are involved. The reason? Refer to Point 2.

5. When the police gives you a command to do something, it is usually good advice to take them seriously.

A little caution and street-smart will go a LONG way folks. Stay safe out there.

 

[ArmyJerry]

Rule 6 , defend yourself no matter who is on the other side of the gun shooting at you.

 

[Blue Sky Country]

Unless they did it before the video kicked on, I didn't hear them ID.

The video above of the hotel hallway shooting is cold blooded murder period. That fuckin kid was scared to death and crying. Any more info on that hotel hallway shooting? There's no way in hell that was warranted. Making someone who is scared, confused and probably drunk jump through 20 different positions until he messes up enough to shoot? He should've been ordered to do one thing, cuffed and drug out of there while another officer covered the doorway.

Its officers like this that put all police officers in more danger than is necessary. He wanted to shoot that guy, or wanted to shoot someone period. Murder.

I saw that bodycam video too. That was pretty sickening.

If I were that kid in the video and they ordered me to crawl towards them, I would have just remained kneeling there, with my hands held up high in the air, and say: "If you are going to execute me, then you will shoot me right here where I am. I am not going to provide you with entertainment. If you wish to kill me, you kill me like a man and I will die as a man".

Simple as that. I will remain kneeling, head straight up with both hands held high like a classic POW, a soldier.

In my post above this one I may have said that it would be good advice to follow a police officer's orders, but for this case, I am going to have to make an exception. I don't mind giving up my life if it means to preserve my dignity and honor.

 

[Blue Sky Country]

Rule 6 , defend yourself no matter who is on the other side of the gun shooting at you.

if the victim was my relative that guy would not be breathing free and probably not at all.

You know, as much as I hate to seem like I am supporting some of the most diabolical actions a law abiding citizen can take in this flawed but still great country, if the current conditions do not transition for the better, something drastic like that might happen in the future for the powers-that-be to realize that they had seriously fucked up. It is one thing to have gang members, drug dealers and hoodlums out rioting and protesting against 'police brutality'. It is wholly another thing to alienate and provoke the slumbering power that is the armed citizenry, who, in normal times of peace, should be working ALONGSIDE you to combat crime. I am fully aware that there are plenty of awesome police officers out there who do their utmost in upholding the Constitution and bringing evildoers to justice, like that outstanding South Carolina sheriff who congratulated and hugged the lady who had blasted away the scumbag prison escapee who chose to kick down her door in the middle of the night. The armed citizenry is supposed to be your FRIEND and ALLY. After all, we want our communities to be safe just as much as any next guy and we are willing to band together, lend each other help and aid each other to make that happen.

You seriously would not want to make the population of law abiding gun owners your enemy. You REALLY would not want to do that. You DO NOT want to see what a honest, hard working man will do when all that matters to him has been taken away.

I, myself, is a man who is only interested in working hard for my community, paying my taxes and supporting my family. And when I do fall in love again and get married, I want to give all of my devotion and heart to my wife and watch our children grow up in the most warm and nurturing environment that we can provide for them. I also have elderly parents who are suffering from a variety of debilitating and crippling illnesses who need a lot of constant care and I love them dearly and cannot imagine what I would do if I were to be without them. If anyone were to hurt the ones that I love, I WILL fucking make sure that the perpetrators will never see the Sun rise again.

Now excuse me while I grab a tissue and refill my shot glass with Jim Beam. I cannot talk about this stuff without a tear running down my face.

 

[W54/XM-388]

Right now most of the relatives and families are too willing to take blood money paid by their fellow citizens.
Eventually the day will come when somebody decides it's time for the sacred rite of vengeance and they won't take blood money or stupid words instead.

 

[Holliday]

When this results in no charges/no firings etc it will just get worse. They know there are no consequences so shoot the person or dog first and ask questions later.
At the very least settlements should come out of the PD budget and retirement fund. Would give them some incentive to police their own and keep the f ups off the street. " Oh joe officer was criminally negligent now we don't get new cars every year, had to sell the apc's and our retirement account took a hit. ". Instead of "lol looks like the tax slaves will have to work harder this year"

Wtf did I just watch??? Is there a link to a story on this?

 

[Holliday]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Daniel_Shaver

 

[Maser]

Any one of us would be serving 25 to life if we pulled that shit.

 

[Snuby642]

These days bad actors are pussys, compared to the direct theat of le showing up.
I don't think I will even call them anymore, seriously.

If I have to use deadly force, I will call the lawyer first and let them deal with le.
Just drive off and claim fear of my life, "left the scene " fuck em!
I plan on walking off, laws be damned.

 

[Holliday]

http://www.fox10phoenix.com/news/297059746-video

This makes me so fucking mad......

 

[Blue Sky Country]

Wtf did I just watch??? Is there a link to a story on this?

This was one of those cases where it went FUBAR from the very beginning. As a matter of fact, the turds had already hit the fan before it started. To put more context behind it, this incident happened shortly after the Las Vegas concert massacre, and people everywhere were just not too keen on hearing about "a man with a rifle". Which was exactly what had happened. Someone went apeshit when they saw a drunken Daniel Shaver point the barrel of an unloaded air rifle out of the window of his suite. And because of the close proximity in time to the horrific events at Vegas, the LE responded with overwhelming force. The response by the department was understandable. You get a call about some dude pointing a rifle out of a window it is natural you want to get to the bottom of it. What happened AFTER the response was anything but.

With the amount of heavily armed officers ALL pointing their weapons at the guy, who was obviously unarmed by this point of the altercation, how hard is it to get a couple of guys in behind him while he is being held at gunpoint and cuff and hogtie him?

Hell, before I started driving trucks I had worked as a utility contractor and on one job I had been replacing fluorescent lighting units in the emergency room of a hospital and I saw an emotionally disturbed man wrench a pair of scissors off of a triage cart and start lunging at the staff and other patients with it. Two city cops and two hospital security guards showed up before the crazed dude actually managed to hurt anyone. BOOM, literally three seconds and the guy was on the floor in cuffs and begging that he would be "good" again. The two cops had guns and while the security men didn't, they still got Mace and big ass Maglites. No one drew their weapons. Just good old teamwork and elbow grease. Not even a verbal threat was issued. They just went in and went to town and took care of business.

Problem with these new rookies today is that they are way to hesitant, or untrained to go mano y mano the old fashioned way.

 

[ShooterwithNoName]

http://www.fox10phoenix.com/news/297059746-video

This makes me so fucking mad......

Me and you both. This guys actions will result in more people getting killed, both LE and civilian. Theres no sane person that can watch the video of that shooting and ever not be feel a little more on edge in any situation with LE afterward. This video is just the most recent one I've seen that makes me try to avoid any contact with them whatsoever. I dont feel like being shot because I made one wrong move while I've got multiple people with loaded guns pointed at me screaming orders. Who in the hell wouldnt be nervous and prone to fuck up? Or is that by design?

The fact that he beat the charges further deepens the growing distrust between them and us. I'm with Snuby642, I will avoid them at all costs. Doesn't matter if I'm armed or not, a simple misunderstood command or one wrong move is now sufficient cause for 5 rounds shot into someone crawling on their hands and knees?

Are they truly above all reproach? This is way out of control and zero accountability? They become officers full well knowing the dangers, the likelyhood of getting shot. But does that justify killing any one that may be, could be, was told they were, armed? Dont even have to see a weapon anymore, just moving wrong justifies pulling the trigger as fast as they can until the person stops moving?

Anyone is fair game if that's how it is today. Just hope that you avoid them at all costs. Because even if they wrongly kill you, your loved ones will be the only ones to get justice for you at their expense. I dont wish that upon my family.