****australian nsw members read me****

[Just Macca]

****DISCLAIMER: All those reading in the free world, skip this post. Australians of the NSW persuasion READ****

Just a heads up for any potential shooters considering a modern tactical rifle in New South Wales, Australia. The Firearms Registry is currently deliberating over the ban of Desert Tech rifles. It will most likely affect the purchase of new firearms first, used firearms traded within state lines may be targeted next. I am currently fighting with them as they are refusing to provide my dealer with a rego number so I can take possession of my newest rifle, a Desert Tech SRS in 243Win. If the rifle had not been purchased interstate, I could have strolled in with my PTA and this would not have come up. But due to it being a QLD purchase, my dealer is required to lodge an application with the registry to have my specific rifle brought into the NSW system.

To conduct this ban they will be using Subsection 7 of Schedule 1 of the Firearms Act 1996 to reject my PTA. It states that a firearm is prohibited if it:
"Substantially duplicates in appearance (regardless of calibre or manner of operation) a firearm referred to in item 1, 5 or 6."
Subsection 1, 5 and 6 all refer to fully automatic and self loading firearms used for military purposes. In other words it looks scary so they've devised a handy little catch-all section to ban whatever they want.

ACT have already used identical legislation to ours, and I do mean identical even down to the wording and section/schedule number, to ban a Barret MRAD (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-08-26/canberra-firearm-laws-gun-refused-over-appearance/7786604). NSW will be next. If you are a New South Welshman and you're reading this, and you have a spare permit to acquire that you've been on the fence about using for a Desert Tech. DO NOT DELAY, find and acquire a DT of NSW origin and buy it, otherwise you're about to miss out as they will block further import into the state.

I am currently going through this. I stood meters away from my firearms dealer the other day as they were instructed by a registry official to use their mobile phone to take pictures of my rifle to send to the registry. It has nothing to do with length, manner of operation or anything else, only that the rifle APPEARS similar to a semi automatic.

 

[sandwarrior]

Dammit!! I hate hearing about your gun laws down there. And, they did nothing! Crime is as bad as it ever was. Economic instability is what fuels crime.

 

[SSW7]

Mate, could you please let me know the outcome of your Desert Tech via here or PM.

Cheers,

 

[Simia Dei]

This is fucking retarded. NSW legislation is already complete piss with banning of folding stocks. I'll just assume that the SSAA is sitting on their hands about this too...

 

[Just Macca]

Mate, could you please let me know the outcome of your Desert Tech via here or PM.

Cheers,

Will do mate.

I'm not sure if the SSAA know.

 

[Sendit6.5]

Dang, that's just a shame! With all the cowboy and rugged individualism heritage that Australia has, I can't believe that guns are so tightly regulated. It sounds crazy over there. What a shame. I feel for y'all!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[delinquent pleb]

FFS...
this shit is getting out of hand. I knew it was always on the books but they always seeed to enforce it so sporadically and inconsistently you would wonder if there was any point in having there.

i hope you manage to get it sorted. This, along with issues of getting RPRs is fucking ridiculous.

 

[Just Macca]

At this stage it's rejected with instructions to my dealer to ship it back to QLD, even though it was a private sale.
It was rejected due to the following "expert" recommendations:

1. It looks like a military firearm.
2. It is painted in military matte black.

I couldn't make that up if I tried. Currently on the phone to speak with the registry, will advise.

 

[mikeb127]

Wow, that's f&*ked man.

If talking to them doesn't work(which it generally doesn't) maybe sending an email to Troy Grant cc:ing all SFFP mp's with a please explain as to why this is all of a sudden an issue.

Hope it gets sorted for you.

 

[pitdog85]

Australia is a joke the left have full control here. Hey at least in NSW they will let you guys get a 338 as far as I know. Up here in queensland no one is being approved for 338. Apparently there is a handful of 338 in QLD from older times but they wont approve them now and will make you jump through more hoops then a circus performer to even try get one. You guys are also allowed to shoot in some national parks up here that is a NO GO.

 

[Just Macca]

Okay, so the result at this stage is that I can't have it. For the time being it is classed as a prohibited weapon. I was correct in that they are using Schedule 1, Section 7 to ban the rifle. I was informed that due to the advising experts stating it (subjectively) resembles the Chinese Designated Marksman rifle, the QBU-88. It is deemed prohibited. The registry official I have spoken to stated that the registry itself, and the firearm experts that advise them, are drafting some kind of report to make the recommendation the legislation is changed to no longer incorporate the specific sections which ban rifles that "look" like semi/automatic rifles regardless of their manner of operation.

Furthermore, various NSW firearms dealers have been told that they can no longer sell the current Desert Tech stock they have, or order in new rifles to the state.

I am fortunately able to keep my prohibited rifle with my local dealer until either; the legislation changes (I was not able to be given a timeline), or I sell the rifle interstate.

Distributors are aware of the issue and will be fighting it, so maybe there is a hope.

 

[Bucket]

Gotta wonder what will be next?
I have an AI AT and that surely isn't far from the looks of the DTA....
AFAIK we can still buy any calibre, even .50 BMG, .338 s are no problem either.

 

[delinquent pleb]

Okay, so the result at this stage is that I can't have it. For the time being it is classed as a prohibited weapon. I was correct in that they are using Schedule 1, Section 7 to ban the rifle. I was informed that due to the advising experts stating it (subjectively) resembles the Chinese Designated Marksman rifle, the QBU-88. It is deemed prohibited. The registry official I have spoken to stated that the registry itself, and the firearm experts that advise them, are drafting some kind of report to make the recommendation the legislation is changed to no longer incorporate the specific sections which ban rifles that "look" like semi/automatic rifles regardless of their manner of operation.

Furthermore, various NSW firearms dealers have been told that they can no longer sell the current Desert Tech stock they have, or order in new rifles to the state.

I am fortunately able to keep my prohibited rifle with my local dealer until either; the legislation changes (I was not able to be given a timeline), or I sell the rifle interstate.

Distributors are aware of the issue and will be fighting it, so maybe there is a hope.

This complete crap for you and I sincerely empathise. But If you were advised that they are making formal recommendations to remove that provision from regs and legislation that would be a huge win for common sense.
I really think you should get in touch with the SFFP reps in NSW.

They are currently redrafting the Firearms Regulation for 2017, this could, albeit remotely, have a chance of being incorporated into as a change if FAR is acting on this?

 

[Just Macca]

This complete crap for you and I sincerely empathise. But If you were advised that they are making formal recommendations to remove that provision from regs and legislation that would be a huge win for common sense.
I really think you should get in touch with the SFFP reps in NSW.

They are currently redrafting the Firearms Regulation for 2017, this could, albeit remotely, have a chance of being incorporated into as a change if FAR is acting on this?

Yeah at this stage I'm just going to hang on to it I think. Wait and see what happens over the next 3-4 months.

 

[Clearlight]

Australia is a joke the left have full control here. Hey at least in NSW they will let you guys get a 338 as far as I know. Up here in queensland no one is being approved for 338. Apparently there is a handful of 338 in QLD from older times but they wont approve them now and will make you jump through more hoops then a circus performer to even try get one. You guys are also allowed to shoot in some national parks up here that is a NO GO.

It's easy to get a 338 or anything short of a BMG . You need a property
owner , or range certified for large cals , to write a letter approving your
use of your chosen caliber . Talk to Queensland Police Weapons
Licensing or your favourite gunstore . Cleavers do this often , I've seen more
than a few 416 Barrets and AI's etc getting around . Guys are also wildcatting
a lot in Queensland , Wep Licensing are not so savvy in this department .
Was shooting 338 on Tuesday .

Macca , your situation eats a bag of dicks , sorry to hear mate it's bollox .

 

[Just Macca]

It's easy to get a 338 or anything short of a BMG . You need a property
owner , or range certified for large cals , to write a letter approving your
use of your chosen caliber . Talk to Queensland Police Weapons
Licensing or your favourite gunstore . Cleavers do this often , I've seen more
than a few 416 Barrets and AI's etc getting around . Guys are also wildcatting
a lot in Queensland , Wep Licensing are not so savvy in this department .
Was shooting 338 on Tuesday .

Macca , your situation eats a bag of dicks , sorry to hear mate it's bollox .

Yeah, maybe things will change, who knows.

Meanwhile does anyone know of the existence of a Blaser CISM/Tactical on Aussie shores? I'm looking for one to soothe my broken heart. I'm after the original tactical model, not the Tac 2 or LRS 2.

Cheers for your sympathies.

 

[pitdog85]

It's easy to get a 338 or anything short of a BMG . You need a property
owner , or range certified for large cals , to write a letter approving your
use of your chosen caliber . Talk to Queensland Police Weapons
Licensing or your favourite gunstore . Cleavers do this often , I've seen more
than a few 416 Barrets and AI's etc getting around . Guys are also wildcatting
a lot in Queensland , Wep Licensing are not so savvy in this department .
Was shooting 338 on Tuesday .

Macca , your situation eats a bag of dicks , sorry to hear mate it's bollox .

That's interesting mate and certainly a lot different info that was getting around from the queensland boys on a couple of the Australian forums who were having an extremely hard time with it. They were claiming that 338 lap and similar cartridges were being labelled in some sort of "special" category within weapons licensing and you would need to sell a kidney to get approval!!! Either way not being allowed to shoot on state land is a joke.

 

[archaos]

Macca, have they said anything about the ones that are already owned. Possible grandfather clause? I have dropped an insane amount on mine when you add in all the export import fees and currency conversions rates. I would be around 20K Australian just on my DTA with optics, accessories and conversions.

 

[Just Macca]

I mentioned that there was already so many in the state and they explained that it was undecided, but most likely they wouldn't seize them as it would be too expensive to compensate owners.

 

[archaos]

The next issue is then they are still classed as a prohibited weapon and being so it maybe difficult to shoot it at any approved ranges. I was asked to leave a range today (Tuesday 22nd August 2017) due to my DTA being a prohibited weapon now.

i am seriously considering selling up all my guns and gear and walking away from this.

 

[Just Macca]

Where were you told to leave? What a load of shit, I'm surprised they knew what it was and also knew that registry were having a hissy.

was given the advice of starting a crowd funding page for a legal fight, it's looking more and more sensible.

 

[archaos]

I went straight to SSAA HO and explained what happened. They confirmed it being prohibited also and said it was ok to shoot still, but that was verbal. I was more concerned how it would put ranges licence in question. The RO that advised me I could no longer shoot there is a really good guy and was trying to get info out of FAR while I was there. All they could do was confirm it was now a prohibited firearm. I hold no grudge against the range for telling me I could not shoot there. This just needs to be sorted out.

Appearance laws are are a joke and just a form of discrimination based on looks. Imagine if it was a small business that refused service based on looks.

 

[Simia Dei]

I went straight to SSAA HO and explained what happened. They confirmed it being prohibited also and said it was ok to shoot still, but that was verbal. I was more concerned how it would put ranges licence in question. The RO that advised me I could no longer shoot there is a really good guy and was trying to get info out of FAR while I was there. All they could do was confirm it was now a prohibited firearm. I hold no grudge against the range for telling me I could not shoot there. This just needs to be sorted out.

Appearance laws are are a joke and just a form of discrimination based on looks. Imagine if it was a small business that refused service based on looks.

Which range mate?

 

[archaos]

The range was Silverdale, as I stated, I hold no grudge against the range or RO, the guys there are good and try to help as much as possible. There range is not approved for prohibited weapons. The RO got on the phone with the registry to sort it out but couldn't get a clear answer other than the DTA is now a prohibited firearm. I didn't want to risk any come back on the range so I left and headed straight to the SSAA head office.

No point in going off at the range or RO when they are just complying with range regs. The SSAA head office did say that it shouldn't matter what operation of firearm being used, as long as it fits into the danger template. They will look into this and make enquiries to if these do remain prohibited and current owners retain possession, that they can still be used at there ranges as long as we still comply with any current calibre restrictions that are imposed on each range.

 

[Simia Dei]

Ah fair enough. I like the blokes out at that range, that's the one I usually use. Andy Mallen is always good for a yarn.

 

[archaos]

Andy is great and the one who tried to help

 

[Stueygetsome]

Hey guys, anyone had this experience in WA ?

Was told by dealer the AI AXMC was also on the nose because of the 'ventilated for end' but the AT was fine ??????

Trouble is the AT only comes in 308 and I want to run a 300WM.

Cheers
Stu

 

[Just Macca]

Hey guys, anyone had this experience in WA ?

Was told by dealer the AI AXMC was also on the nose because of the 'ventilated for end' but the AT was fine ??????

Trouble is the AT only comes in 308 and I want to run a 300WM.

Cheers
Stu

Ventilated fore end???? Fuck me dead.....

I still don't know what's stopping DT owners within NSW selling their firearm to another NSW licence holder? First thing registry would know about it is 2 weeks later when the completed PTA arrives back at the registry itself.

 

[Stueygetsome]

Oh, and I forgot to add, we are not allowed pistol grips either...

If I want to buy an AT I have to get a thumb hole stock!

Personally i like the pistol grip over a thumb hole.

Wankers!

Stu

 

[jmatt6.5]

Have any of you guys contacted the Shooters and fishers party? We all know it is a load of crap, maybe they can find something out. I nearly brought a DTA about 2 months ago but went with an APRS.
I believe the man you need to talk to at the shooters party is Steve Larsson 02 9230 2850.
Appearance law should be scraped! There also heaps of talk about it on the Shooting Australia forum.

 

[thejeep]

That's interesting mate and certainly a lot different info that was getting around from the queensland boys on a couple of the Australian forums who were having an extremely hard time with it. They were claiming that 338 lap and similar cartridges were being labelled in some sort of "special" category within weapons licensing and you would need to sell a kidney to get approval!!! Either way not being allowed to shoot on state land is a joke.

When a government is tyrannical......

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

 

[archaos]

I have spoken with Robert Borsak and he advised they oppose this, unfortunately previously the motion to remove the Appearance rubbish was voted down by Labor, Liberal, Nationals and of course the Greens.

 

[Just Macca]

Mines up for sale. Unless the registry will grant me a prohibited weapons permit *Scoff*

 

[Austaz]

Sorry to jump in here but I'm considering moving back to Aus (nsw central coast most likely) from the US, other than advise not to do it, does anyone know who to talk to to get some advise from on moving back with guns and getting licensed? From what I can gather I may have to sell the pistols for a while until I wait a year to get through a club and licensing, not sure about the other guns.
Scar16 and 17 - no hope I guess, sell it before I move even though I really like them.
Sig P320 compact and full size - sell to a friend or a club for a year? They already have 10 round mags, a safety and are 9mm but have the Romeo red dot sight, it seems they would be ok after getting the full license after a year?
10/22 - sell it I guess as its a semi and can take large mags even if it's a 22. I do have a friend with property that I can use if this helps at all.
Savage 10 BA stealth in 6.5 and 338, was hoping to bring these back but maybe not since it has the pistol grip and looks bad?

thanks.

 

[Just Macca]

Pistols must have barrel of 120mm plus.
Savage stealth should be all good.
Everything else is a no unfortunately.

 

[archaos]

Macca, I was reading your attached file and saw the word seizure of DTA rifles. All I can say is F that. I'm going to copy that to the Australian forum also. Cheers bud and hope it works out

 

[Just Macca]

Macca, I was reading your attached file and saw the word seizure of DTA rifles. All I can say is F that. I'm going to copy that to the Australian forum also. Cheers bud and hope it works out

So i'm assuming you haven't been contacted by the registry?

Cheers mate, we'll see I guess.

 

[archaos]

No mate I haven't. Maybe wishful thinking since I've had mine so long and it was registered as a desert tactical arms 6 years ago. Might have slipped through a crack... here's hopping.

 

[Simia Dei]

Sorry to dig this thread up, but are there any updates with this?

 

[Just Macca]

Sorry to dig this thread up, but are there any updates with this?

I've recently started making inquiries with the registry regarding getting a "Fix" from Q into NSW with pinned stock (Relatively common modification for compliance). I'm not making the same mistake twice on such expensive kit.

Anyway, I asked off hand what the story was with the DT SRS. This was with a dealer specific member of the registry and not general staff mind you, and she stated that they were still making a determination.

What that means she couldn't tell me. She also kept calling the "Fix's" folding stock "adjustable". I had to specifically explain that adjustable is perfectly legal, but folding is the prohibited aspect of the rifle in question according to NSW legislation. I still dont think she understood the distinction.

It's illegitimate what they've done really with this SRS debacle, as once again; the schedule dictates that its prohibited if it "duplicates" the appearance. Which by definition it doesn't because DT didn't give a flying fuck about the chink QBZ-88 when they designed it.

Rant concluded. Apologies.

 

[Simia Dei]

I'm keen to hear how you go with the Fix.

And that sounds like completely bullshit that is being set by the FAR. If they can establish any precedent they seem to just run with it blindly. Common sense doesn't live there. Its disappointing, I wanted to swap the custom for a DTA. The thought of running a 32 inch barrel in a usable package is tempting.

I've been dealing with the FAR this week just trying to get licensing changed from using a club as my primary genuine reason to using my R licence and not having to do attendances, even though I do all of my shooting out of state and use a Vic stalking permit for my hunting. I got three different answers and it's driving me fucking spare. I'll contact DPI and see if they can give me a clearer answer.

Edit: Rant away mate, it's frustrating owning firearms in this state.

 

[mikeb127]

I've recently started making inquiries with the registry regarding getting a "Fix" from Q into NSW with pinned stock (Relatively common modification for compliance). I'm not making the same mistake twice on such expensive kit.

Anyway, I asked off hand what the story was with the DT SRS. This was with a dealer specific member of the registry and not general staff mind you, and she stated that they were still making a determination.

What that means she couldn't tell me. She also kept calling the "Fix's" folding stock "adjustable". I had to specifically explain that adjustable is perfectly legal, but folding is the prohibited aspect of the rifle in question according to NSW legislation. I still dont think she understood the distinction.

It's illegitimate what they've done really with this SRS debacle, as once again; the schedule dictates that its prohibited if it "duplicates" the appearance. Which by definition it doesn't because DT didn't give a flying fuck about the chink QBZ-88 when they designed it.

Rant concluded. Apologies.

Pls let us know the outcome of this(or need any help with something). I would be keen for a mini-fix if we can get hold of them.

 

[Just Macca]

Pls let us know the outcome of this(or need any help with something). I would be keen for a mini-fix if we can get hold of them.

Copy, will do.

 

[JeffLebowski]

Good luck, gents.

 

[delinquent pleb]

Guys this issue was raised specifically by SFF at a review into the new NSW police regulations (separate and subordinate to the legislation) that were updated last year. They mentioned the categorisation of DTA specifically and the minister said, to paraphrase ‘meh...it looks like therefore it is...no change to appearance laws’.

It’s a bloody sorry situation and commonsense was never a consideration in the ensuring discussion by the powers that be ?

 

[Macca]

Snakes & ladders or swings & roundabouts,i'm sure our American cousins are well versed as we are as to state regulations/laws regarding firearms as to what you can & cannot have.
Unfortunately it is a fact that firearms ownership is a privilege (in Australia) & not a right,& that limited privelige is constantly encroached upon by state police forces (amongst others) without reference to legislation other than the police commissioner's recommendation.
The SFP is a minor party,with many divergent interests,with a correspondingly minor presence in 3 states.Their influence & capacity to act is relative to their political presence.
The sleeping giant in the room is of course the SSAA.
Just about everyone who owns a firearm is obliged to join the SSAA for various licensing reasons.But what does this (in Australian terms) gargantuan organisation do other than produce a glossy monthly magazine filled with articles by "our special correspondents"?
Sweet fuck all,you know it,I know it,& every malingering oxygen thief that they half heartedly converse with on behalf of their members knows it too.

 

[Gaznazdiak]

I have recently been thinking about getting an SRS and was just now looking into it when a link to this thread came up.

I'm just wondering if there's been any positive movement on this (wishful thinking, I know).

Two years ago, about the time of the final post above, I had to go through a 3 month circle jerk with NSW FAR to get written approval for my XLR Element chassis, and even with their go ahead they tell me that it can still potentially be seized if "in the opinion of the inspecting officer" it resembles a military firearm.

The gun grabbers have been steadily whittling away at us, all the while trying to claim that the gun laws are being watered down, keeping in mind that this is the state that has banned airsoft guns because of appearance and NERF guns because of their muzzle velocity FFS, I'm not too hopeful.

 

[craigos]

This is why i left australia and moved to USA. What a joke those moron politicians are. Take note Americans - John Howard asked for australians to give in their semi autos - they went after lever action shotguns and now DT bolt actions - see how this goes? Dont give in an inch to these bastards

 

[Gaznazdiak]

This is why i left australia and moved to USA. What a joke those moron politicians are. Take note Americans - John Howard asked for australians to give in their semi autos - they went after lever action shotguns and now DT bolt actions - see how this goes? Dont give in an inch to these bastards

Totally different scenario in the US where gun ownership is a constitutional right.

You still have at least as many pissy bitches in the ban everything brigade, but you have the protection of 2a.

All we have in the penal colony is a "Common Law Constitution" and the only rights guaranteed are:

the right to trial by jury on indictment for an offence against any law of the Commonwealth—s 80;

freedom of trade, commerce and intercourse within the Commonwealth—s 92;

freedom of religion—s 116; and

the right not to be subject to discrimination on the basis of the state in which one lives—s 117.

And that's it all.

There are some "implied rights" like the right to vote, but considering the fact that voting is compulsory by law, it's hardly much of a right

Don't get me wrong, I love Oz warts and all, I wouldn't live anywhere else no matter what manner of toys I was allowed, but some of those warts really bloody shit me.

 

[Heffo]

F#$@! Saw heading and thought was something new apart from the Desert Tech. Yep slowly trying to take more and more. One funny thing is the firearms registry is so hopeless a lot of the time, I’m told, they don’t know what the hell you have. When they come around to check it’s to update their records. But yeah my rifles are all in colourful Manners stocks because I’m betting all those scary “Tactical chassis” rifles are in will be banned before long. I’d love an Accuracy International rifle one day but am very hesitant because of all our do gooders trying to ban everything....they should be dumped in the ocean all our pollys.