Automation for sizing operations

[Raufoss]

I have read several posts about the Mark 7 and other press on auto drive but I don’t need all the bell and whistles.

I would like your opinion on the best option for my needs:

1. I would like a press on drive that would only handle the resizing operation. 223 to 308 class brass
2. I don't need to prime
3. I don’t need to seat bullets or anything else.
4. I’d do around 1000 pcs of brass at the time. I know it’s not at huge volume but I need to save time.

What would you guys do?

 

[jetsurgeon]

Dillon 650/750 and AutoDrive..... That's what I use.

 

[Raufoss]

Dillon 650/750 and AutoDrive..... That's what I use.

What caliber are you sizing on it? Any issues or mods needed?

 

[Raufoss]

I’ve found all the conv kit I’d need. But for 6BR and 6 Dasher I’m not sure.

I know it’s the same locator pins and shellplate but what about the case feeder adapter and arms bushing..

 

[jetsurgeon]

I use a 650 with AutoDrive for everything I shoot.. 9mm, 38/357, 5.56, 6MM ARC, & 6.5CM.

Some rounds I use a powder measure to throw, others I use an AutoTrickler and throw off the press..... But still use the AutoDrive for everything. You'll want to float your dies, do a search, we've covered it quite a few times. I need to go back and update my postings / threads from a few years ago, as I have changed my process ever so slightly.... Two tool heads, one for processing, the other for loading.

All the best,
J

 

[Raufoss]

I took the time to read your various posts.

I have placed my order for the XL750 and just need to buy the toolheads.

Would you recommend the Armatov more than the Whidden?

 

[jetsurgeon]

The Armonov are nice, just a little pricy, these use a SHCS (Socket Head Cap Screw) to lock the ring. Whidden is nice as well, again just a little pricy, they use a roll pin to lock the ring, either is good quality.

If you have some mechanical ability and can drill and install a roll pin, or tap holes, head over to Ebay and get you some Jofer tool heads, you will save a ton of money. I have two tool heads for each caliber, it can add up. These are the tool heads I use. Some of the tool heads I installed roll pins to lock the die rings, other tool heads I drilled and tapped holes for the M2 SHCS instead of using roll pins. Either way works just fine. You'll need to decide on a lock ring to use, the Hornady rings I like the best for this application.

You will also need to decide how many dies you want to float in the tool heads, with the Armonov you can float all 5 dies if you have the rings, with the Whidden you can only float 2 dies (position #1 and #4). If you make your own toolheads you can decide how many you want to float and what positions......

I have a Whidden tool head I've never used, I could sell it to ya. Currently I'm out of town for work, won't be home until the weekend.

Hope this helps.
J

Jofer Tool Heads

Whidden

Armonov

 

[Cynical]

I have read several posts about the Mark 7 and other press on auto drive but I don’t need all the bell and whistles.

I would like your opinion on the best option for my needs:

1. I would like a press on drive that would only handle the resizing operation. 223 to 308 class brass
2. I don't need to prime
3. I don’t need to seat bullets or anything else.
4. I’d do around 1000 pcs of brass at the time. I know it’s not at huge volume but I need to save time.

What would you guys do?

go ahead and get the auto drive for the 750. You can do 1 and 2, two separate operations for me because I dry tumble after sizing. With proper adjustment the 750 is excellent for seating primers consistently below flush. huge Time saver when you’re doing sets of 1000 pieces at a time.

 

[Raufoss]

go ahead and get the auto drive for the 750. You can do 1 and 2, two separate operations for me because I dry tumble after sizing. With proper adjustment the 750 is excellent for seating primers consistently below flush. huge Time saver when you’re doing sets of 1000 pieces at a time.

I placed the order yesterday for a 750, the case feeder and conversion kits. I also bought Armanov accessories.

I’m just waiting a little bit for the autodrive.

 

[jetsurgeon]

Not sure if Mark 7 fixed this, but when I got the Autodrive for my 650, the AutoDrive didn't have any firmware installed, the tablet would never connect. No where in the manual did it say one needed to flash the firmware, lots of frustration.

The next day I called them to report the problem, they said yes I needed to flash the firmware as none comes installed. I replied thanks, but it would be nice if you told folks this, maybe update your instruction manual..... Crickets.....

All the best,
J

 

[Raufoss]

How are you going to deswage .223?

I don’t need. I run Lapua or IVI brass. I have a good contact for the IVI ( not the Israel brass), that gave me brand new brass. So I don’t need to bother with swagging.

 

[Threadcutter308]

Not sure if Mark 7 fixed this, but when I got the Autodrive for my 650, the AutoDrive didn't have any firmware installed, the tablet would never connect. No where in the manual did it say one needed to flash the firmware, lots of frustration.

The next day I called them to report the problem, they said yes I needed to flash the firmware as none comes installed. I replied thanks, but it would be nice if you told folks this, maybe update your instruction manual..... Crickets.....

All the best,
J

Oh, and also check all the bolts that hold everything together. I received my second Autodrive about Feb 1. It wouldn't calibrate and would short stroke.

After about 3 weeks of chasing problems/getting nowhere, Mark 7 sent me a new controller card. I pulled everything apart, replaced the card, put it all back together and it seemed to run fine.

Until the next day. Another week chasing the same problem. To make a longer story shorter, the 4 mounting bolts on the bottom side of the base were loose. Like one and a half turns loose. These are the mounting bolts that hold the vertical, square aluminum box tube to the base. It was moving around and all the movement confused the controller, so it couldn't properly calibrate.

Since then, I've run at least 5,000 cycles (dry run) and have done at least 20 seperate calibration cycles With zero problems.

Am I happy with my Autodrives ? Yes. Just kind of rolling my eyes about having to chase down Mickey Mouse bullshit that should have never gotten out of the factory.

So, when you get your Autodrive, the first thing you should do is flip it upside down and make sure those 4 bolts are tight. You might want to even consider Loctiting them.

 

[Huskydriver]

I’ve found all the conv kit I’d need. But for 6BR and 6 Dasher I’m not sure.

I know it’s the same locator pins and shellplate but what about the case feeder adapter and arms bushing..

Case feed adapter and funnel are 6pcc iirm I load tons of 6br on my 650.

 

[Huskydriver]

I've owned a 650 for quite a few years. I've done a lot of 223 brass prep on it. I've kind of gotten to the point where I have 30 or 40 lb of range pickup brass that is a collection of what I've shot and what I've picked up. I have been putting off prepping all that because I've just gotten tired of doing it on a 650. I've gotten to the point where I feel like that is pretty hard and abusive on that press. I will get one out of 10 pieces of brass that just size pretty hard. I'm going to buy an RL 1100 and Dillon's automation and the next three or four months just for brass prep and maybe for automated 9 mm. My thought is with the beefier components and the smoother operation they can handle those tough jobs. Easier. That and the onboard deswaging. I looked at the CP 2000 for about a second since I'll primarily looking for brass prep. But ultimately it is limited compared to an 1100 and only about $400 cheaper. Kind of short-sighted in the long run. I look at it like we will have these presses for a long time and the particular lot or brand of brass that we have right now might not be what we have in 5 years.

Deswagging is absolutely crappy on the 650 and def feels like you are going to break something if sizing etc at the same time.... If you are doing lots of that I would def do the 1100.

I too will be picking up an 1100 this year for the same reason and I'm tried of swapping my 650 back and forth from small primer to large cuz I'm lazy.

However I don't think doing bulk 9mm has been bad and have no issues there on the 650

 

[Threadcutter308]

Deswagging is absolutely crappy on the 650 and def feels like you are going to break something if sizing etc at the same time.... If you are doing lots of that I would def do the 1100.

I too will be picking up an 1100 this year for the same reason and I'm tried of swapping my 650 back and forth from small primer to large cuz I'm lazy.

However I don't think doing bulk 9mm has been bad and have no issues there on the 650

Yeah, if I hadn't already been so heavily invested in my 650's, I would have really liked to have gone with the bigger machine.

Biggest complaint with the 650 (and 750) is there are only 5 stations and space is really tight between the dies.

 

[Huskydriver]

Yeah, if I hadn't already been so heavily invested in my 650's, I would have really liked to have gone with the bigger machine.

Biggest complaint with the 650 (and 750) is there are only 5 stations and space is really tight between the dies.

Yea I love my 650 honestly. I did my first big run loading precision rifle on the 650 with a ig trickler and it is so much faster and accurate than a standard v3... I loaded 100 rounds in 22 min while playing around a couple times that ig trickler is awesome

 

[Huskydriver]

The only issues I've had with bulk 9 mm has been the powder through expander dropper gets dry when belling the mouths on the cases and when I pull the case down it kind of pops as the brass separates from the mouth of the belling fixture.

Interesting is that the Dillon powder through expander? I think I'm running a daa and haven't had it stick like that

 

[jrhtx]

I've owned a 650 for quite a few years. I've done a lot of 223 brass prep on it. I've kind of gotten to the point where I have 30 or 40 lb of range pickup brass that is a collection of what I've shot and what I've picked up. I have been putting off prepping all that because I've just gotten tired of doing it on a 650. I've gotten to the point where I feel like that is pretty hard and abusive on that press. I will get one out of 10 pieces of brass that just size pretty hard. I'm going to buy an RL 1100 and Dillon's automation and the next three or four months just for brass prep and maybe for automated 9 mm. My thought is with the beefier components and the smoother operation they can handle those tough jobs. Easier. That and the onboard deswaging. I looked at the CP 2000 for about a second since I'll primarily looking for brass prep. But ultimately it is limited compared to an 1100 and only about $400 cheaper. Kind of short-sighted in the long run. I look at it like we will have these presses for a long time and the particular lot or brand of brass that we have right now might not be what we have in 5 years.

Keep in mind the S1050 is not covered by the lifetime warranty. I think it is a year only. I had to send one back for repair and it was $500-600. If you take parts off like the ratchet on the back they replace it and charge.

 

[Threadcutter308]

The only issues I've had with bulk 9 mm has been the powder through expander dropper gets dry when belling the mouths on the cases and when I pull the case down it kind of pops as the brass separates from the mouth of the belling fixture.

Scotchbrite.........

IIRC, I was able to chuck mine (DAA) up in my drill motor and polish it up real nice. My DAA was popping like you described, but once polished, it went away.

 

[Huskydriver]

Scotchbrite.........

IIRC, I was able to chuck mine (DAA) up in my drill motor and polish it up real nice. My DAA was popping like you described, but once polished, it went away.

Must have got lucky with mine haha

 

[Huskydriver]

It is. Other than that mass 9mm is the easiest to load which is why I was considering it for automation. 5.56 sometimes uses flat based bullets and primer pockets are more likely to be swaged which means you're more likely to run into a pocket that never got quite deswaged properly and a primer misalignment. And I'm currently having a problem with small 55 grain bullets aren't heavy enough to defeat the little metal spring-loaded contact point that starts and stops the bullet dropper so it tries to run away and fill out the entire coiled slinky tube.

I have def filled the coiled slinky tube many a time haha. I bent the contact slightly to help those lil 55gr out seemed to work well with 55-77 after that

 

[Threadcutter308]

Must have got lucky with mine haha

FWIW......My DAA was in far better condition than the Dillon was. But....after polishing it up, it works better than the ugliest hooker at the whorehouse.

 

[Threadcutter308]

It is. Other than that mass 9mm is the easiest to load which is why I was considering it for automation. 5.56 sometimes uses flat based bullets and primer pockets are more likely to be swaged which means you're more likely to run into a pocket that never got quite deswaged properly and a primer misalignment. And I'm currently having a problem with small 55 grain bullets aren't heavy enough to defeat the little metal spring-loaded contact point that starts and stops the bullet dropper so it tries to run away and fill out the entire coiled slinky tube.

Top pic is of the DAA return spring set up. Works like a hot damn. They should include one with each Bulletfeeder. (I went back and re-read your statement. You're having a problem with the bullets not being heavy enough to trip the limit switch inside the feeder head to stop the collator portion from filling up the feed tube. You may have to bend the limit switch arm to get more contact with the bullets).

Bottom pic is of the zip tie kludge that I put together for the bullet feed tube/spring. Ugly, but it works well.

Oh, and FWIW, my Bulletfeeders are working quite well, I'm pretty happy with them. Took some tweaking/mods/additions to get there, but they're running pretty sweet right now.

 

[Threadcutter308]

I have the spring retention jobbys on the bearing slider piece. My spring coil tube from the feeder to the drop tube is a lot shorter. Maybe I need to lengthen it so they pick up more speed on their way to the flat metal switch

You can stretch the spring coil tubes out, but be careful and only do a little section at a time.

 

[Yondering]

Scotchbrite.........

IIRC, I was able to chuck mine (DAA) up in my drill motor and polish it up real nice. My DAA was popping like you described, but once polished, it went away.

A number of years ago someone on the Brian Enos forum suggested to me to lube my 9mm brass (or any pistol brass) even when using carbide dies. Doesn't take as much lube as rifles, and there's a real easy way to do it in bulk*, and it smooths out sizing a lot as well as eliminating that snap/pop from the powder funnel. I lube all my pistol brass before loading now.

I've also made myself a different powder funnel with a step in it, like a Lyman M die, so the bullets drop in from the bullet feeder and actually set down in the case a little, rather than balancing on top of a belled case mouth. That has completely eliminated bullet tipping between station 3 and 4, so I can run the press a lot faster. Along with addition of the bullet feeder, that's been my best upgrade to the press.

*Bulk case lubing is easy - dump them in a ziplock freezer bag (they're tougher than standard bags) and spray some aerosol case lube in there. Close the bag and shake it around a bunch. I dump them straight in the bullet feeder from there.
Avoid spraying the lube directly on the cases, just spray the side of the bag. When you close the bag, try to capture that aerosol fog in there (don't squeeze it out); it deposits a tiny bit of lube in the case mouths, not enough to affect the powder but enough to eliminate sticking on the powder funnel.

Hope that helps.

 

[Raufoss]

So my 750 is running. I’m really happy and I’m waiting for my autodrive. With that being said..

Anyone is running a Mr bullet feeder with 6mm bullets and 0.284s ? It will be fine for my 6.5 but I wonder for my 6s and 7s..

I spoke with DAA and they said they had report from users( both positive and negative). Any input and tips to make it work?

 

[jetsurgeon]

I run 6mm 107 SMKs perfectly fine in the 6.5x55 dropper. Can't run the feeder at full speed but I don't need to with those bullets, weighing powder off the press. I have the autodrive set for a top dwell of something like 30 so I can dump the powder thru the funnel into the case while the platform is at the top position.

You're going to want to get the "Mr. bullet feeder optimization kit / for double alpha collator 650 1050 dillon" for your feeder, head on over to Ebay..... KIT HERE Makes things so much easier for adjusting the feeder for different bullets.

Can't help with 7mm as I don't shoot any, but maybe you could get different sizes balls for the 6.5 dropper to make it work with 7mm..... just a thought.

All the best....
Jeff

 

[99mpower]

SSI powder through insert to help with the sticking on the 9mm loading.

Run my Ammobot at 1800rds/hr with it, smooth as butter

Also, definitely do the super minor lubing of 9mm brass when I run it as well.. Machine runs sooo much smoother with just a hint of lubrication on the brass, and not enough to require cleaning the brass after either