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AutoTrickler V4
- Thread starter adamjmac
- Start date
Got mine today. I am coming from an original chargemaster. Set it all up in 15 minutes, calibrated it and dumped 10 charges of varget before needing to leave the house. So far I am very impressed at how fast and accurate it is. Money well spent!
One person emailed me yesterday who is having difficulty, who is on this thread, who is looking for help. After the last few posts I had decided to wait and see if anyone contacted me, and now one person has.
I'm going to take a quick video this weekend demonstrating how to tune flow with 3 powders - CFE223 (fine ball), H4350 (medium kernel) and N570 (very large kernel). There is a straightforward process and the instructions do not cover it well. I regret even mentioning the word "shim".
There may be a use case for Jthor's tip idea. We're working on that too.
I'm going to take a quick video this weekend demonstrating how to tune flow with 3 powders - CFE223 (fine ball), H4350 (medium kernel) and N570 (very large kernel). There is a straightforward process and the instructions do not cover it well. I regret even mentioning the word "shim".
There may be a use case for Jthor's tip idea. We're working on that too.
For the record, Jthors tip with Ramshot Magnum... basically required equipment. (itty bitty spherical powder)
Maximum success looks like this:
Cut Jthors tip down like so:
Install on the back of the unit thusly:
Pull the transition weight to tune specific powders:
Basically, a series of varying diameters in the rear, would ensure a single file line of kernels out the front regardless of powder. I like this, because I don't need to mess around with the little tip in the front every time I want to empty the machine. I'm seeing 10-12 second charges with Varget, H4350, H4831SC, H1000, Retumbo, N150, N560, N565, N570, Ramshot Magnum, RL26, RL15, IMR7977, and IMR 4955.
You can literally tune any powder on that setting screen without touching the tilt of the machine with shims.
Cut Jthors tip down like so:
Install on the back of the unit thusly:
Pull the transition weight to tune specific powders:
Basically, a series of varying diameters in the rear, would ensure a single file line of kernels out the front regardless of powder. I like this, because I don't need to mess around with the little tip in the front every time I want to empty the machine. I'm seeing 10-12 second charges with Varget, H4350, H4831SC, H1000, Retumbo, N150, N560, N565, N570, Ramshot Magnum, RL26, RL15, IMR7977, and IMR 4955.
You can literally tune any powder on that setting screen without touching the tilt of the machine with shims.
Glad the tip is working! @NiteQwill
Just to reiterate/clarify for everyone I offered to sell the tip just to help others. I think just as of recently I just made out positive on on the tips I sent out for others to test in the beginning, free of charge. I did spend my own my money shipping the initial resin tips out. Me selling the tip was never meant to take a stab at the V4 at all, just helped fix a minor issue. Making this tip in CAD and then resin printing it is a lot easier than building a whole system and programming it. Lol I felt some sort of obligation to help since I was a beta tester. Let’s also note that Adam is a shooter/competitor as well and there is only so much time in a day; he doesn’t have folks working with him in numbers like RCBS, Hornady and so on. Those that innovate in this sport are passionate shooters also. I’d hate to see these people walk away from the sport because others unwarranted criticism. Not saying critism is bad, it’s not, but sometimes it can get a little out of control on these forums. Just my .02
Just to reiterate/clarify for everyone I offered to sell the tip just to help others. I think just as of recently I just made out positive on on the tips I sent out for others to test in the beginning, free of charge. I did spend my own my money shipping the initial resin tips out. Me selling the tip was never meant to take a stab at the V4 at all, just helped fix a minor issue. Making this tip in CAD and then resin printing it is a lot easier than building a whole system and programming it. Lol I felt some sort of obligation to help since I was a beta tester. Let’s also note that Adam is a shooter/competitor as well and there is only so much time in a day; he doesn’t have folks working with him in numbers like RCBS, Hornady and so on. Those that innovate in this sport are passionate shooters also. I’d hate to see these people walk away from the sport because others unwarranted criticism. Not saying critism is bad, it’s not, but sometimes it can get a little out of control on these forums. Just my .02
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This is what I like about getting folks together on things like this. While I have thought of doing something to the rear of the trickler tube, it never occurred to me to just cut down on the tip and slap her on there. Lol since I pull the unit off and dump it from the rear each time it never really occurred to me some folks don’t.Maximum success looks like this:
Cut Jthors tip down like so:
Install on the back of the unit thusly:
Pull the transition weight to tune specific powders:
Basically, a series of varying diameters in the rear, would ensure a single file line of kernels out the front regardless of powder. I like this, because I don't need to mess around with the little tip in the front every time I want to empty the machine. I'm seeing 10-12 second charges with Varget, H4350, H4831SC, H1000, Retumbo, N150, N560, N565, N570, Ramshot Magnum, RL26, RL15, IMR7977, and IMR 4955.
You can literally tune any powder on that setting screen without touching the tilt of the machine with shims.
This is pretty radical. Based on the huge flow rates I assume the housing is tilted downwards a lot, and the flow is being limited by the small gap between the tube and the window, which would vary if the tube moves fore and aft. The two teeth are closed off too which are needed to mix up and encourage flow. And sliders are maxed.
This is pretty wild, can you demonstrate it working?
Nope... it's not tilted downwards a lot. I have to tilt it forward a ton to get the powder to empty from the little tube.
Here's your demonstration.
Went on CE's site and prepaid the $50 to get in line last week. Found this thread this week. Watched four hours of your five hour "live stream" when you took the V4 live. Cannot wait to get those smooth six second powder drops.
Adam, I very much enjoyed your live stream, even though it's over six months old, and really appreciate your approach to both finding a solution for trickling powder and your business model. It's clear you're not doing this for the money.
Adam, I very much enjoyed your live stream, even though it's over six months old, and really appreciate your approach to both finding a solution for trickling powder and your business model. It's clear you're not doing this for the money.
You should do up a few dome-shaped ones with varying hole diameters for the rear. Not much space to work with back there... but I'd love to test em out for ya.
I'm working with about a dozen various powders on this thing on a pretty regular basis. I think the right diameter hole in the back should solve 99% of the flow issues. I don't think the notches in the rear need to be there. You might even be able to make a little "fin" or change the direction of the hole to "scoop" powder at the specific rate we want to. Give me a call @jthor if you want to discuss. Could even make a flow-adjustable 2-piece cap... that only lets a small amount of powder into the "fingers" on the existing tube. Use a tiny set screw to clamp it on the fingers.
Lots of ways to solve this problem back there.
Hi, thanks, how are you getting a calibrated flow rate of 0.5 GN/s without a downward tilt? Normally it's 0.15 to 0.25. I don't see how adding extra material around the outside of the tube in the back would double the flow rate. Is that the case? I feel like I'm missing something here.
Edit - re-calibrated after making the changes?
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You free this evening? Not, 100% on time. Gotta clean carpet and do a little bit of calculus before I can sit back and chat with my head clear.You should do up a few dome-shaped ones with varying hole diameters for the rear. Not much space to work with back there... but I'd love to test em out for ya.
Could even make a flow-adjustable 2-piece cap... that only lets a small amount of powder into the "fingers" on the existing tube. Use a tiny set screw to clamp it on the fingers.
Lots of ways to solve this problem back there.
Ping me on IG... If I'm available I'll sound off.You free this evening? Not, 100% on time. Gotta clean carpet and do a little bit of calculus before I can sit back and chat with my head clear.
Here this will help. See the little squishy foot? That squishy foot is my friend. It made your machine work good. Maybe that's "a lot of downward tilt," as you put it. I don't know... don't much care. I just want it to work within a few kernels without overthrowing. This, combined with choking off the powder to the small tube a bit, does that for most every powder. (as long as I don't breathe, or no one opens a door anywhere in the house, or a jet doesn't fly overhead at 30,000ft, or a mouse doesn't run past the wall outside.) ... but that's the scales fault, not yours.
Is this a fluke? I can’t follow how this even gets you to a perfect single file line of kernels.Maximum success looks like this:
Cut Jthors tip down like so:
Install on the back of the unit thusly:
Pull the transition weight to tune specific powders:
Basically, a series of varying diameters in the rear, would ensure a single file line of kernels out the front regardless of powder. I like this, because I don't need to mess around with the little tip in the front every time I want to empty the machine. I'm seeing 10-12 second charges with Varget, H4350, H4831SC, H1000, Retumbo, N150, N560, N565, N570, Ramshot Magnum, RL26, RL15, IMR7977, and IMR 4955.
You can literally tune any powder on that setting screen without touching the tilt of the machine with shims.
Yeah, that foot in the back is a big spacer giving you a downward tilt, that explains the high flow rates.
I'm not trying to be critical I'm just trying to understand it. If you have some method that somehow makes the system run better I want to see that and try it. I don't really understand the mechanics at play here since a high flow rate combined with maximum speed slider 10 means the trickler would normally overshoot by a LOT every time, except that the addition in the back is restricting inlet flow, which means flow would be very sensitive to that piece. So far that makes some sense but then how does it improve the final precision?
I don't know, maybe next week I will try it.
I'm not trying to be critical I'm just trying to understand it. If you have some method that somehow makes the system run better I want to see that and try it. I don't really understand the mechanics at play here since a high flow rate combined with maximum speed slider 10 means the trickler would normally overshoot by a LOT every time, except that the addition in the back is restricting inlet flow, which means flow would be very sensitive to that piece. So far that makes some sense but then how does it improve the final precision?
I don't know, maybe next week I will try it.
Not sure how I can answer that for you. Go watch 20 hours or so of my 6.5PRC cartridge guide live streams. You can tell me if it's a fluke.
I made something similar from a mechanical pencil eraser cap. Didn’t really do anything. Must be missing something?
For me, personally, adding @jthor cap to the front of the small tube perfectly aligns kernels in a single line to prevent overthrows. The best part: it's fast. I have tried this for H4350 and Varget. I am unsure if this will work with ball powder. I load most my ball powder rounds in a Dillon anyway.
I did this with approximately 150 rounds recently and had maybe 3 overthrows (by 0.04-0.8 gr). I have a long reloading session next week with approved 400 rounds so I'll see how well it does.
I did this with approximately 150 rounds recently and had maybe 3 overthrows (by 0.04-0.8 gr). I have a long reloading session next week with approved 400 rounds so I'll see how well it does.
I’m still in the unsure camp on the tip. It does appear to reduce the flow down by .04gr a second. Maybe this allows a higher small tube speed which it almost appears the powder is better behaved. I do see the kernels approach the end in a more organized manner.
I did notice that if you just run the small tube continuously you can adjust the tilt until you get a nice flow that does not cause the scales stability indicator to light up. I think if you keep adjusting until it mostly never comes on, you have achieved a good flow with no gaps. It is imperative you run the small tube for a minute or two when you make level adjustments so it is purged the previous kernels that populated the tube at the old flow.
I did notice that if you just run the small tube continuously you can adjust the tilt until you get a nice flow that does not cause the scales stability indicator to light up. I think if you keep adjusting until it mostly never comes on, you have achieved a good flow with no gaps. It is imperative you run the small tube for a minute or two when you make level adjustments so it is purged the previous kernels that populated the tube at the old flow.
Greg, this is a dick (Dykstra) thing to say. The fact that you post every moment of your day on live stream does not obligate any person to accept your word whether they have watched it or not. Get off your high horse and be reasonable and useful if you will. Can you please try to stop being snide, condescending, holier-than-thou, megalomaniacal, gotcha, haha, etc.? Can you learn from feedback? Is your approach rational? Can people disagree with you and that be OK? Are forums dead or are you dying, slowly, because of a personality disorder? I'm aware of a lot of people who have created a lot of stuff (comparable to or far more ingenious than the CPS) whose presence on these forums that are "dead" is but a miniscule fraction of what your presence on the forums is, where you are attempting to prove, on these "dead forums" that you're intellectually superior. Consider why you spend so much time here trying to convince people you're right, compared to those dudes who are just there making shit. "The lady doth protest too much, methinks."
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To be fair, we can’t expect him to be unbiased. He wrote/designed the website for Prometheus.
Good God, man. Even the Uyghur aren't persecuted this badly.
How about you contribute your first helpful piece of information on anything at all to this community and then you can start talking.
Until then you’re just a worthless piece of shit providing nothing. It’s easy to talk when you’re a zero.
I dunno, I actually found the post the most helpful (and truthful) in the last several pages.
Greg has actively pushed false or misleading information on multiple occasions specifically regarding the accuracy or consistency of electronic scales and powder dispensing systems.
I'd take somebody who adds nothing to the community over a guy whose contributions are a net negative.
I’ve contributed a lot you just have to watch 1700 hours of me live-streaming my lonely life to find it LOL.
I’m still waiting on the live streamed prairie dog hunt with a 103% kill ratio on 100 Pdogs. If that pans out I’ll admit I was wrong about all the bluster bombast and braggadocio
I’m still waiting on the live streamed prairie dog hunt with a 103% kill ratio on 100 Pdogs. If that pans out I’ll admit I was wrong about all the bluster bombast and braggadocio
Here's a video:
This isn't my best work but it took the whole day and I think it's a step in the right direction.
I also played around with the tip with N570 while working on this and feeling positive about it at the moment.
This isn't my best work but it took the whole day and I think it's a step in the right direction.
I also played around with the tip with N570 while working on this and feeling positive about it at the moment.
Thanks for the support here. I'm waiting on my order and it's great to see that I am in good hands.
Good video. I was testing H4350 and N570 today with and had to drop the front of the scale significantly just like your video showed. It seemed strange that I had to drop the scale so far off level but at least I know that's normal now.
Also like you stated I've been noticing higher and more consistent flow rates give better results vs very little slow rates and slow drops. With my scale level H4350 doesn't flow or is extremely slow from the all tube. The higher flow being more accurate and not over throwing was counterintuitive at first but I'm getting the hang of the V4 now.
I'm at .23-.26 when the scale is level and below .2 when the bubble is all the way at the bottom. Maybe it has something to do with the plastic stoppers settling in or variations in thickness from the manufacturer. However, my scale works great at both the settings. Im using the @jthor tip and I think there is something to it as it allows me to throw consistently at the .23-.26 setting without any overthrows. Maybe the tip controls the flow better at a more aggressive angle. I found that at .2 I could give it more speed and go to 6 whereas at .23-.26 I'm at 5. Regardless, this gave me better times that below .2 and a speed of 6. 43g of Varget would take about 15 seconds set as prescribed (.2 or below) with and without the tip being the same. Nothing to scoff at but with the tip and the more aggressive tilt, Im at 10-12 seconds (no overthrows). Without the tip its too slow as the more aggressive angle causes the tube to slow down for the last few kernels. I tried the aggressive tilt and tip with H4350 and same results. 43g about 10-12 seconds. Net net, we are talking about me tinkering with something that is already great and I found the settings that adam recommends is plenty fast, I just prefer how I have it right now. Also all it took to get from Varget to H4350 was just a recalibration and I was up and running - so much better than my V3. Also the fact that is so easy to clean up shouldnt be lost on anyone as it makes changing powders or just doing a small session and cleaning so easy. I removed the clip from the electric harness so I just disconnect and open the rear right into a funnel into the powder container - could not be easier. Im really really happy with my V4.
Edited - I tried this morning with Staball 6.5 - used the tip like before, 5 for speed. Calibration was at .23 (so same .23-.26 range Im seeing) and threw 43g in 8 seconds without overthrows! Also did a varget ladder for some testing and wow was that fast an easy. Again not sure why my small tube numbers are the way they are when the scale is perfectly level or why the tip works great given the calibration is the same with and without but this thing is amazing. I could tilt the scale and get to between .1 and .2, play with the speed slider and remove the tip but this current setup is working so well why fix what isnt broken.
Edited - I tried this morning with Staball 6.5 - used the tip like before, 5 for speed. Calibration was at .23 (so same .23-.26 range Im seeing) and threw 43g in 8 seconds without overthrows! Also did a varget ladder for some testing and wow was that fast an easy. Again not sure why my small tube numbers are the way they are when the scale is perfectly level or why the tip works great given the calibration is the same with and without but this thing is amazing. I could tilt the scale and get to between .1 and .2, play with the speed slider and remove the tip but this current setup is working so well why fix what isnt broken.
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Interesting because I get .23-.26 with the scale level and like you have to get very aggressive with the tilt to get below .2 (H4350 and Varget). I wonder if it has to do with tolerances with the two front stoppers. When I first got mine I was at .16 so not sure what happened. My scale is always perfectly level and on a block.
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Set up my recently acquired Autotrickler V4 and dumped 50 loads of 8208 and it ran great. Out of 50 dumps I had two that were -.02 and thats within specs.
Im very pleased with my V4
Im very pleased with my V4
I think there's a lot of not precision stuff between the top of the scale and the V4. the two sets of bumpers and windscreen assembly likely vary from unit to unit which leads to differing flow rates when the scale is level.
So, I tried N570 today with some good success, but here is my general quesiton. Say I have a target weight of 82.2 grains. I set it and it gets to 81.8, but from there it is still calling, because it didn't hit 82, but it also has no chance not to go over as the next kernel is .08 grains. What is the general protocol for this? In the past I've just been fine with +.06 if necessary, because it is a minuscule percentage variance, but is there an actually good solution.
I load N570 in 4 different cartridges myself. Isn't throwing the angle of the actual scale way off going to affect the accuracy of the scale? Can someone that has 2 adi scales perhaps throw 5 charges with the V4 of N570, then level their scale like its supposed to be, re-weigh them and see if they're within 0.02 of what the scale read them at running way down sloped? I'm on the list for a V4 later this year. I dont have many problems loading N570 through my V3 accept my funnel below the throw sometimes packs off. This happens once ever 30-40 rounds. I run N570 in mu big long range hunting magnums, i only load 50-80 rounds a year foe the after load development so truthfully its not that big a hinderence. Maybe the V4 isn't for me vs the V3s current abilities.
I would just have a small cup of powder or a paper plate with some kernels on it. Drop a few extra in with a tweezer perhaps. That'd bug the hell out of me after spending 1k on a powder throw that cant get your desired charge. I load 92.7gr N570 in my 338 rum and my V3 does well getting within 0.04gr of desired charge. If it's a consistent thing always getting 0.2gr less of desired, set your weight call 0.2gr above desired and see if it throws what you're after.
Keep your V3 and add the Ingenuity Precision trickler.
Technically yes but the cosine of 1 degree is 0.99984. It would take a pretty large tilt change to measure a difference.
For reference the standard stock upward tilt angle is about 1.4 degrees so I think a 1 degree change is a lot.
Add me to the list of happy customers with @jthor tip. I was seriously considering selling my v4 and getting back into a v3 with the new ingenuity dispenser. Once I put this tip on all overthrows were virtually eliminated. For me speed is as important as accuracy with these systems. When you are loading 300 plus rounds per session the less time spent in front of the scale the better.
