Suppressors AWC integrally suppressed 10/22

[Steve Weed]

I recently bought a new AWC 10/22 that is integrally suppressed. It was advertised as having a ported barrel, so you can use high velocity ammo because the porting should keep the bullet subsonic. Well, unfortunately about 50% of the time my bullets go supersonic making the 1,200$ 10/22 pretty much as loud as a 200$ basic 10/22.
I called AWC and the man told me that it was designed and tested in Arizona (I live in Seattle) and the speed of sound changes with altitude so that's why the bullets are breaking the sound barrier so I should send it back in so they can work on it. Hmmm... Doesn't the speed of sound INCREASE at a lower altitude as a general rule? Either way, even if I have it backwards, the description selling the gun didn't say that it was intended only for high altitude use anyway.
Already it's gonna suck to pay for shipping and packaging, take the time to send it in, wait for the work to be done, drive the 1/2 hr. back to the range, re-sight it in & pay the range fee and hope that they even fixed the problem. So I was wondering if anyone had an opinion if AWC decides to charge me for the "repairs" if I should shut up and pay.
I would appreciate any input. Thanks

 

[David Hineline]

Re: AWC integrally suppressed 10/22

You can send it in for heavier porting or shoot a slower ammo like Winchester Dynapoint or any std. velocity ammo.

 

[Steve Weed]

Re: AWC integrally suppressed 10/22

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: David Hineline</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You can send it in for heavier porting or shoot a slower ammo like Winchester Dynapoint or any std. velocity ammo. </div></div>
Yes but also I am wondering if it is right for them to charge me to open up the ports a little for high velocity ammo, when it should have already brought them down to subsonic speeds out of the box.

 

[50APIT]

Re: AWC integrally suppressed 10/22

The speed of sound actually doesn't depend on air pressure, rather it is the air temperature. At 100 degrees F it is roughly 1160fps and at 60 degrees F, which I am guessing is about as cold of a temperature as the OP would have been shooting it in Jul, it is around 1120fps.

speed of sound calculator
speed of sound/pressure

My guess is that the rifle was not actually ported for HV ammo, even if it was, tuning it to keep HV ammo subsonic in such a narrow temp range was not very well thought out. If the rifle was advertised as keeping HV subsonic, AWC should cover any expenses to open the ports up.

 

[RollingThunder51]

Re: AWC integrally suppressed 10/22

IMO,

First, an opinion. If you bought this system and it is not doing exactly what this rig is famous for...taking a PARTICULAR high velocity round and, without fail, reducing it a very stable and perdictable sub sonic velocity, then, it falls on the maker to fix it. It isn't, they want to fix it, let them.

Having said that:

1. That rig, when running is incredible.

2. It requires, as in MUST HAVE, high velocity .22s, they recommend 36 grain HV. Use a couple of Rem Goldens and if they fail, back it goes.

3. I am hearing far too many people mentioning they are experiencing this exact same problem. You would not be the first person to send your rig back to them for this reason. And, they know it.

So, why is this happening? Why for decades and more generations than I can remember of this rifle does this problem exist now? Well, in my opinion (pure opinion) it has to do with a dramatic increase in tighter tolerances with their new line. The new equipment Chris bought a year ago (THOR) has radically increased the precision of the stack and especially the bore. That is a good thing, a very good thing...BUT, in my opinion, as this is a single gas port, they have not completely got the pressure flow under control yet. The new dimensions are so tight that the velocities are increasing just enough to tip the balance. And. it is a delicate balance, they want to get that absolute <span style="font-weight: bold">maximum sub velocity </span>that delivers the<span style="font-weight: bold"> hardest hitting</span> subsonic round the <span style="font-weight: bold">farthest</span> that they can and do it with the highest <span style="font-weight: bold">precision</span>. They want to keep that single port as tiny as they can...and they are right, there is quite a bit that goes into that calculation that they have to account for. In the vast majority of times, they nail it. Occasionaly, they don't.

So, now for the easy part:

Send it back. Send it back and do not worry about them in any way harming the fit, the finish, the performance of your rig. They built it to the finish standards that you see in front of you.

One last thing. The whole purpose of integrals is to accomplish just what you are struggling to get right. Anybody can build a .22 integral that drops the pressure down to subsonic, THAT IS NOT THE GOAL. It is maximizing, stabilizing that subsonic velocity right at the edge that gives you the best that can be had. Putting the barrel under compression is also a huge gain as the eaccuracy is unreal. Integrals are a real work of art. Just want to run a swiss cheese ported barrel? You get crap results. Need to buy sub rounds to run through your integral....crap design.

Good luck.

Cold, clean barrel first shot.

 

[PLeighton]

Re: AWC integrally suppressed 10/22

FWIW,

Most integral rimfire firearms will specify the ammunition that they are setup to use.
(CCI MiniMag, CCI Standard Velocity, and Wolf Target are commonly used.)
It is usually a good idea to stick with that ammo in order to get the best performance.

With a standard blast can 10/22 setup, the easiest way to stay subsonic and still get good performance is to use a match cartridge such as Federal AM22 (AutoMatch).
Since integral firearems reduce the velocity by design, it is often necessary to use a high velocity cartridge to get acceptable subsonic performance.
A good example of this is the HK MP5-SD.
It is setup to use standard high velocity SMG ammo.
In fact, if you use subsonic ammo in a MP5-SD, the performance is often unacceptable since the porting lowers the velocity too much.

Bottom line, if you haven't already done so, find out what ammo AWC recommends for their integral 10/22 and test with it.
Get ahold of a chronograph, document the environmental conditions and record the velocities while testing.
I like to use 1035fps as a good target velocity in order to achieve subsonic performance in most environments.
If your velocities are averaging above 1100fps, with the recommended ammunition, then you have a bonafide warranty issue with AWC and I'm sure they will make it right.
If you are just not getting the performance that you desire with the ammunition that you prefer, then that is arguably a user requested adjustment and you may be libel for the charges.

Remember, with an integrally suppressed weapon that uses barrel porting, you are married to the ammunition that it is setup to run with.

 

[Steve Weed]

Re: AWC integrally suppressed 10/22

I couldn't have hoped for better advice. Thank you.

 

[Steve Weed]

Re: AWC integrally suppressed 10/22

Thank you for your knowledge and advice. The instructions recommended a wide variety of ammo, giving me the impression that I could use most hv rounds. I will try the specific ammo they tested it with, see how it works and go from there. Thanks again for your advice gentlemen.

 

[Steve Weed]

Re: AWC integrally suppressed 10/22

I have been using the recommended ammunition and now I am also having cycling issues. Gotta love it when you spend 1,200$ on a .22 rifle that doesn't work in more than one way!

 

[PLeighton]

Re: AWC integrally suppressed 10/22

Shooting a 10/22 suppressed is tons of fun, but introduces some very frustrating issues that one does not encounter unsuppressed.

Here are a few tips for you.
First and foremost, a suppressed 10/22 must be run dry.
Any lubricants will cause fouling to accumulate.
Order you up a can of Hornady One Shot Gun Cleaner-Degreaser and Dry Lubricant.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/270323/...-1-2-oz-aerosol

Then completely strip your 10/22 for a detailed cleaning.
Use whatever products that you normally use to get everything clean.
Once you are ready to reassemble everything, go ahead and spray everything with the Hornady Dry Lube.
Allow about five minutes for the propellant to flash off and then reassemble the 10/22.
(Wipe away any excess liquid that may be present.)

Now, the 10/22 will run as it should, and will require much less cleaning.
After every 800 - 1000 rounds, lock the bolt to the rear and spray the Hornady Dry Lube on the top of the receiver, bolt face, bottom of the bolt, and guide rod.
Manipulate the action several times and then wipe clean.
This is all the cleaning you should have to do for the next 10,000 rounds or so.
After that, it will be necessary to do a detailed cleaning in order to remove any debris that has accumulated in the trigger group.

The next tip has to do with magazines.
If you are running the Ruger rotary magazines or any other magazine that can be disassembled for cleaning, just use the Hornady Dry Lube process.
If you are using cheaper sealed high capacity magazines such as the Eagle 30 round magazines or the Butler Creek magazines, there is another process that is effective.
This process uses powdered molybdenum disulfide lubricant.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/598573/sentry-solutions-bp-2000-dry-lubricant-1-oz
When loading the magazines, just add the slightest amount of Moly powder on top of the cartridge.
The Moly powder will find its way to everywhere it needs to be.

Good luck and have fun shooting!

 

[a220stw]

Re: AWC integrally suppressed 10/22

I just got my AWC 77/22
It miss fires all the time
I have tried 7 types of ammo
Guy at AWC said send it back. they will fix it when they have time
Now that is the reply i wanted for a brand new $1400 .22

 

[RollingThunder51]

Re: AWC integrally suppressed 10/22

The Ruger 77/22 is a bolt action. Not sure I follow you on this one a22.

Are you saying that when you pull the trigger it does not fire the round? If so, what more can you tell me about the shell casing?

 

[a220stw]

Re: AWC integrally suppressed 10/22

RollingTunder51
Correct, when trigger is pulled the round does not fire.
the primer has a strike from fire pin. but does not fire.
i took bolt apart and checked fire pin. no burs that would make it hang up
i am thinking it is head spaced wrong.

 

[KYS]

Re: AWC integrally suppressed 10/22

Or your firing pin is short just enough to ding the primer. I had that happen on a bolt gun. New firing pin and now its fine.

 

[a220stw]

Re: AWC integrally suppressed 10/22

KYS338
Thanks for the suggestion.
i will look into that
should i just measure the one in my rifle and try to find another and measure it?
dumb question, but do they make differnt lenghts?

 

[KYS]

Re: AWC integrally suppressed 10/22

Measure the firing pin then call the manufacturer and ask if its within their tolerances.

 

[RADcustom]

Re: AWC integrally suppressed 10/22

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: a220stw</div><div class="ubbcode-body">KYS338
Thanks for the suggestion.
i will look into that
should i just measure the one in my rifle and try to find another and measure it?
dumb question, but do they make differnt lenghts? </div></div>

I would guess more likely a spring issue.

You can take the bolt out, push the firing pin forward and makes sure it sticks out to the edge of the bolt face but not beyond.

 

[a220stw]

Re: AWC integrally suppressed 10/22

Thanks for the pointers.
i will give those a try