Backpack for competitions

[afate45]

Update: I went with a TAD FAST Pack EDC ($325)...seemed like the best middle-ground between an Eberlestock ($200) and a fully priced out Kifaru ($425+). Thanks LawnMM for the recommendation, I had never seriously looked at TAD, but their stuff looks like great quality all around. I'll try to remember to post pics once it comes in.


I need a pack for competitions. I don't need to carry my rifle in the pack. I don't hike much, and I don't load the coffee machine and toaster when I travel, just the necessities.

I COULD afford a Kifaru X-Ray or something like that, but I'd rather save some $$ and get something that is good enough. I've looked at the different pack styles, tons of searches, but before I open my wallet I wanted to get a final opinion here on the 'Hide. I've considered the following packs:

• Maxpedition Falcon II
• Eberlestock X4 High Speed
• Eberlestock X3 Lo Drag
• Kifaru X-Ray

I have looked at other packs, like Tactical Tailor, LBT, Acteryx (spelling?), Eagle, etc, but I like the options above much more. I don't want anything over 1800 cubic inches (lo drag above is the exception since it has a scabbard). Packs like the Eberlestock and Kifaru have the fancy lumber support and ability to really cinch down the pack for extended travel. So, I am currently left with the following questions. All input is welcome and appreciated:

• For a rifle competition (like the 'Hide Cup), do I really need all that lumbar support? I love the Maxpedition Falcon II, and I love it's price even more. It doesn't have all the back support. How critical is this when loaded with a water bladder and all my kit for a match?
• The Eberlestock packs are damn-near perfect, but 2 things stuck out to me...they are 420d Nylon instead of 1000d Cordura. I've done as much research as I can on these two types of materials, and the general consensus is that unless you're dragging your pack across the dirt/rocks, 420d nylon is fine. Can anyone speak to the Eberlestock 420d packs durability in comparison to a similar pack in 1000d cordura? I don't want to have to baby my pack, and I don't really care about shaving off a few ounces because the material is lighter.
• IIRC, the Eberlestock X4/X3 have two 2-liter water bladder pouches that are part of the main compartment...I've heard this is a pain in the ass because you have to load up 2 water bladders to keep the pack loaded equally. Can anyone speak to this? Is this an old design, or are the new packs still like this? I'd much rather run 1x 3-liter bladder.
• Also, with the Eberlestock, the water bladder pouch seems to be part of the main compartment...should I be concerned about the bag sweating and making my gear inside damp? Dumb question, but I'm just wondering.
• Again, IIRC, you can buy an aluminum frame for the X3/X4, if so, does that prevent you from using the compartment separator in the main compartment?
• My favorite of the above packs, considering price and features, is the Maxpedition Falcon II. Anyone have any hard-use experience with these?

Any and all opinions are welcome. I know the Kifaru is the buy-once, cry once option here, but I want to explore all options. Thanks.

 

[bkw1911]

I use a low drag. It fits most everything I need for a match but can get a little tight when I need a few more items. I bought a couple molle pouches and added them on the outside to pick up the extra gear. It's a great pack and I've hunted with it plenty and taken it to plenty of matches the last few years and there's hardly a scratch on it. I throw it around too in rocks and cactus. Even just hiking a little bit is nice to have the lumbar support and extra padding when you have the pack fully loaded up.

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[BozFour]

Although you dont want to carry your weapon in the pack, it may not be a terrible idea to have the option for later down the road. I went with the Gunslinger and like its ability to be a backpack or both a backpack and scabard. Orginally i did not want to carry my weapon in my pack but I do now and like having the option.

 

[Mudinyeri]

I used to be an Eberlestock dealer ... until they made it too difficult. I still like Eberlestock packs a lot and own three of them. One of them is an original Gunslinger and its water bladder pouches are configured as you describe - two pouches for two bladders. I just carry smaller bladders (2 liters) and alternate drinking.

With that said, you didn't give us a whole lot of insight into what you will be carrying - although we know you WON'T be carrying a coffee machine - or much else that gives us any direction. Your size is another consideration. Some packs are much more adjustable than others. If you're very short or very tall ... or very skinny or very fat ... those are all considerations.

Have you been fitted/measured for a pack?

I have a couple Osprey packs that I use for adventure racing that might be what you're looking for, but it's hard to know without more information. The Osprey packs are lightweight and durable. I've covered hundreds of miles through brush, brambles and barbed wire without a failure. 25 lbs of gear is about the max load-out for my larger Osprey - the Manta 30 (pictured below).

Personally, I wouldn't purchase a Maxped Falcon II for anything other than a light use day pack. They're fairly small but made of heavy material.

 

[jrassy]

I have the maxpedition condor and it has worked great for me, hiking and hunting. I got it for 75.00 at http://www.lapolicegear.com/maxpedition-backpacks.html

 

[afate45]

The pack will mainly be used for competitions, so the usual laundry list:

• 100 or so rounds of rifle ammunition
• 100 or so rounds of pistol ammunition
• Laser range finder
• 1/2 page databook
• shooting sticks
• Kestrel
• First aid kit
• Water
• Snacks
• 2x 10rd AICS mags, 2x 5rd AICS mags, 3-4x pistol mags
• Smartphone
• Calculator
• Knife
• Gloves
• Rear bag
• Maybe rain gear
• etc...

I'm 6ft, 185lbs, skinny. I haven't been fitted for a pack. I'd like to have molle attachment points on the outside of the bag, perhaps for a dump pouch, admin pouch, etc.

Thanks all for the feedback so far. I'm leaning towards Kifaru, especially since they are local and I can stop by and get fitted. Any additional input is welcome.

 

[Graham]

Backpack for competitions

For years I used one of these that I already had, it's big enough for range matches.
http://www.kriega.com/r25/

For the Cup, ASC or Steel Safari, when I have to carry everything but I am only out for a day at a time, I use an X3 Lo Drag. It's heavy, but convenient. And the bladder pouches hold two bottles of water and a sling. The multicam version is made of the correct material.

 

[SRSDriver]

I prefer the kifaru, plus the elberlestock's require cutting/modifications to fit most 'standard (i.e. camelback, other) bladders.

My X3 was OK, but my kifaru is lighter and carries better.

 

[earthquake]

Where in CO do you live? I have an X3 and really like it. I'd be happy to let you check it out in person some time if you want. I'm in Broomfield.

 

[LawnMM]

The X4 is nice, belt isn't removable though. I've moved on to a TAD EDC, very adaptable and plenty of space

 

[Brasscow]

Kifaru.

Eberlestock is junk.

 

[Graham]

Backpack for competitions

Kifaru.

Eberlestock is junk.

That doesn't help the discussion.

Neither are "junk", whatever you mean by that. But neither are perfect, either.

I agree with SRS: The Kifaru is probably better due to its versatility, comfort and also its weight.

Have you tried both? If so, what did you like about the Kifaru and dislike about the Eberlestock?

 

[Darkside-Six]

Eberlestock G4. nuff said.

 

[Brasscow]

That doesn't help the discussion.

Neither are "junk", whatever you mean by that. But neither are perfect, either.

I agree with SRS: The Kifaru is probably better due to its versatility, comfort and also its weight.

Have you tried both? If so, what did you like about the Kifaru and dislike about the Eberlestock?

My intent wasn't to help the discussion, but to provide an answer to the question. If you'd like me to help the discussion, how about this:

I own four kifaru and owned three eberlestock. The kifaru fit like they were designed by people who live to backpack. The eberlestock fit like they were designed by someone thats never hit a mile of trail in their life.

 

[Alpine 338]

I use a Falcon II for my Survival Gear bag at work, very rugged. I don't wear it much, as most of the time it's on the back of the Snocat, Snowmobile, or in the Helecopter. The problem with the Falcon II is its narrow and sticks out a lot. Good if you like to sling your rifle, bad if you need to squeeze through a narrow gap between trees, rocks, etc., or run with it.
The pack I use for comps is the Spec Ops Brand T.H.E. Pack, it's about the size of the Maxpedition Condor, and just as rugged. I actually bought it used off of the Hide a few years ago. The thing that I really like in THE pack that most other packs don't have is the inner-side material of the sholder straps. It's a tight weave material that doesn't collect dirt, debree, pine needles, etc., but still breaths very well. My pack came with the optional aluminum stiffening stays and hard pad. THE pack hugs my back pretty well, and doesn't wobble side to side like some of the narrower packs do (i.e. Falcon II) when I run. Just be aware that the belt is a non-load bearing belt.

 

[afate45]

Where in CO do you live? I have an X3 and really like it. I'd be happy to let you check it out in person some time if you want. I'm in Broomfield.

Thanks COfox! I'm in Arvada. I'll let you know if I decide to take you up on your offer

Thanks everyone for the feedback. I'm now torn between the Kifaru X-Ray, Eberlestock X3, and TAD EDC (I had not previously considered the TAD, but after looking at it, it looks like a really nice pack). I'm leaning towards Kifaru since they are local and I could get fitted and talk in-person with them. I'm just trying to swallow the pill of a $450 or more bill for a pack and accessories. The X3 seems like the most bang for the buck though. I'll post some pics once I make my decision.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

Eberlestocks quality has gone down hill in recent years. The last one I had (gunslinger 2) had stitching coming apart after just two trips to the range.

After seeing a friends mystery ranch pack I had to have one. Quality is night and day and the comfort is amazing. I haven't been to a match since I got mine a couple months ago but I've been out with it several times and it was money well spent. Mines a crew cab and I can stuff all my gear in it plus both my AX in its TAB cover and a gas gun in a soft case and head off with two rifles.

 

[finbox]

My intent wasn't to help the discussion, but to provide an answer to the question. If you'd like me to help the discussion, how about this:

I own four kifaru and owned three eberlestock. The kifaru fit like they were designed by people who live to backpack. The eberlestock fit like they were designed by someone thats never hit a mile of trail in their life.

I agree with this, the Eberlestock, I have owned two, looks to be designed for small people, and does not fit well for anybody over 6'.

I have hiked on the AT,JMT,PCT and fit is everything. Most guys at the range tell me their pack fits great and I can see the belt hovering above their hips.

It's as if Eberlestock designed the pading and straps on what looks good, not what works.

This is what I use. I got it for $49.00 during one of LBT sales. I have a lot of packs and have gone to a light weight strong one without a ton of pockets that add a ton of weight.

I see absolutely no reason to carry your rifle in your pack, you can't seat/nell down and adds a ton of weight to a backpack, it looks cool but you can shave about 4 lbs off your pack and just use the sling that you are already carrying.

http://lbtinc.com/bags-backpacks-pa...ks/standard-three-day-assault-pack-11561.html

 

[jbailey]

I have an Xray, which I like a lot but wish I had the Xing: Xing (2,700c.i./44.24 liters) ? Kifaru Intl. Online Store

I'm a tall guy (6'3") and pretty skinny. The Xray doesn't fit me great given the short stays (something like 17-19")... Also, at 1800cu in, I wish it had more room... the Xing would solve both: 22" stay and 2700cu in.

Quality of the Xray is top notch. Best built pack I have owned. Just wish I had the right size

 

[NICETRY]

I have the X3 Low Drag I used for hunting this year. I am 6'2" and I was able to adjust the straps higher up on the pack to fit my body. It was comfortable to wear while packing a Savage 110 FCP HS Precision 338 Lapua with spotting scope, tripod, ammo, and some other gear. I also use it when going to the range as the main compartment can easily carry two 50 round cases of 338 lapua ammo. So far it has held up well and really have no complaints.

 

[floridabuck]

I have a couple of the Osprey packs and a Mystery Ranch pack. For me the comfort of the Osprey lineup is second to none. I have lived out of my osprey pack for months at a time in the Andes mountains and in the Southeast Asia bush and have never had that piece of equipment fail. Downside to the osprey lineup for comps..... They don't look very "tactical"

 

[finbox]

LBT 100% Berry complaint made in USA 3 day assault pack $49 regularly $219
Standard Three Day Assault Pack - March Madness London Bridge Trading Inc.

 

[BozFour]

I honestly never had an issue with my Eberlestock, I am 6'1" and 195ish. I do like to carry my weapon in it sometimes and comfort has not been an issue nor has come apart at the seams so to speak. My next pack whenever that is will most likely be an Eberlestock but I am willing to give the Xray a try it looks quite nice. In fact this thread has given me alot of ideas of companies i did not know existed from the start. Lets keep it going.

 

[Rob01]

Got a X3 Lo Drag and really like it. Great pack. Also have a Phantom but the Lo Drag is better for a match pack.

As for taller people using the packs, I think Glen Eberle is around 6'3" and I am sure he has no problems using his packs

 

[Scurvydog]

Check out Attackpak, it's a local CO company. You can have one configured however you want.

 

[Darkside-Six]

I'm 6'4" and have had no problems with my eberlestock G4. Have never tried any of these other said packs but the G4 does everything I need it to do and fits great.

 

[SporterII]

Following this thread it seems the packs do not support belt use. Meaning if you wear a belt for pistol, rifle / pistol mag pouches and any other needed kit wile working a stage without the pack.
I don't mean to derail this thread, it seems pertinent.

 

[AEROMechanic]

Eberlestock is good to go.

 

[SRSDriver]

The kifaru waist belts are either optional or removable, depending on the pack, so it's easy to run a belt rig or lumbar pack with them.

 

[Scurvydog]

Attackpak is completely modular. The main pack is made to quick detach from the belt letting you carry whatever you want on your belt.

 

[nexusfire]

I use a Mystery Ranch 3dap for pretty much everything. I also have a 5.11 tactical that I use for a survival/bug out I keep in the truck. The MR is a dream to wear and is very well made. I liked the straps and the yoke system better than the kifaru x ray.

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[nexusfire]

Also I have an eberlestock that I use for prairie dogging. Good pack to carry a gun in.

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[Tactical]

I have never seen anything equal to Kifaru.

 

[peaceatwar]

For years I used one of these that I already had, it's big enough for range matches.
R25 - Kriega

For the Cup, ASC or Steel Safari, when I have to carry everything but I am only out for a day at a time, I use an X3 Lo Drag. It's heavy, but convenient. And the bladder pouches hold two bottles of water and a sling. The multicam version is made of the correct material.

Can you elaborate on "correct material?"

 

[Graham]

Can you elaborate on "correct material?"

The Multicam bag is not flimsy nylon like the Solid color bags. To be Multicam it has to be a thicker material.

 

[NevadaZielmeister]

I have the Eberlestock G3 "Phantom" and I absolutely love it. It is basically 3 packs in one. I have used it in almost all configurations. I have hiked many 10 plus mile days with ammo and rifle. Very comfortable. I am 6'1" and weigh 180 pounds. No problems with fit. The belt is removable and the quality craftsmanship is second to none. My experience with backpacking is EXTENSIVE and this pack is at the top. I use it 4-5 times per month and it gets heavy usage. So far I have had it for 4 years. It will get a lot of usage at the upcoming Sniper's Hide Cup. I cannot imagine using anything else.

To the OP, you may have need to carry the rifle with you in many of the competitions out there, especially the Sniper's Hide Cup. You might want to reconsider the need to carry the rifle. Rifle's slung with a heavy backpack are very cumbersome. Just my $.02.

Good luck!

 

[HodgdonExtreme]

Really need mission-specific gear. There are matches where an Eberlestock pack is great because you have more kit, and it's more comfortable to carry your rifle in the pack over long distances as compared to just slinging it over your back.

For most matches, I like the Skull Monkey Gear vest with detachable pack. It provides MOLLE for your magazine pouches and gear you need to access all the time to operate your rifle, and some pack storage space for the stuff you don't need "on the fly". A nice advantage to this, is it's really designed to be worn all the time while in the field, much more so than an Eberlestock pack is. I find that once I get to my shooting spot, the first thing I want to do is dump my Eberlestock pack off, and then it becomes a kind of "home base" until I move to a new position. Magazines, ammo, dope cards, kestrel etc etc etc are all in/on the pack. That doesn't help you when you're actually shooting. Where do you stick this stuff while running the stage? The vest/pack arrangement keeps this stuff organized and on your person at all times, while not being too big and cumbersome to wear while actually running the stage.

Still another nice piece of gear is a simple battle-belt with a couple of pouches for the 'must have' gear. Some matches (many matches) don't require you to head out into the field with tons of kit, so why carry it all?

 

[tomcfc11]

Have an eberlestock and it works for what I need

 

[Sevo2300]

Another option is the Goruck pack. Made in USA, built like a tank, molle on the outside, lots of organization on the inside, multi use.

GORUCK | Gear Built in the USA. Events that Build Better Americans.. | GR0 Rucksack

 

[nexusfire]

I have never seen anything equal to Kifaru.

Please elaborate

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[Cascade_Sherpa]

I am admittedly a backpack junkie....there are no fewer than four backpacks hanging in my garage, two in my closet, and one more that my wife doesn't know I bought awhile ago in my cube at work. Each serves a purpose: The Arc'teryx Khamski for ultralight summer backpacking, the Osprey Argon for extended backpacking trips in colder weather, The Sitka Flash for day hunts, The Camelbak for mountain biking, 5.11 Tactical for traveling with laptop and kids gear, etc. you get the picture.

For shooting and hunting I used the Eberlestock Phantom last summer and then got the X3 Lo drag in the fall cause the phantom was just too much for day trips. The versatility of the Phantom was pretty amazing I liked it a lot, you could set up the pack for multiple situations, lots of people talk down Eberlestock but Glen is a design genius. For the last match I went to I only brought the X3 and it was plenty of space for the match even though it was snowing and very windy. Some thought needs to go into how you pack if everything needs to go inside but I usually attach some secondary molle packs to the outside for brass and other stuff.

I need to step up and try out a Kifaru and/or a Mystery Ranch pack sometime soon....I just need to whittle down my current stock to justify it. My boss has the Mystery Ranch Dragon Slayer and its is an extremely well built and designed back. Same goes for Kifaru, I have friends who have spent the dough and are very pleased....one of the reasons you rarely find a used one for sale.

 

[Tactical]

Please elaborate

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I have used many Packs/Rucks over the last few decades and ripped stitches on many until I discovered Kifaru. I still have my first two Kifaru's from 2001. The Kifaru Point Man and Marauder have been indestructible. I used them daily and when my best friend needed a ruck working around the Paki Border I loaned him the Marauder. He has used that ruck on three tours every day in Afghanistan and it is still without tears.

Having more than one US Army Ruck rip on me I find the Kifaru worth the money.

On Eberlstock. I like them and find the quality good but not Kifaru's equal.

 

[EventHorizon]

I haven't had my Kifaru Navigator for decades or taken it to anywhere exotic but over the three years of having it and loading it with weights for hiking style workouts as well as range bag and hiking in state parks it's held up where I could sell it as looking brand new - and I bought it second hand...

Also, for carrying your rifle, look at Kifaru's Gun Bearer. You can use it with non-Kifaru packs as well. Seems much more appropriate for comps where concealing the rifle is not a necessity.

 

[Mike_Honcho]

I think there are several that are waiting to see how the Kifaru Nomad works. It may not be the best thing for a comp, where the weights are low to moderate, and the bipedal time is fairly short between shooting positions; but for a totally scalable rig - day use to 100#s +, and a stick - this could be the ticket. The Nomad is new and does require one of their frames.




Thread on the Kifaru forum with mucho more vids and discussion.

The 2014 Kifaru Nomad

ETA for those that are really interested - there is a ton of info out there that compares gun bearing and loading qualities of Mystery Ranch / Eberlestock / and Kifaru. The prime knock on Kifaru is that they use needlessly heavy material (point of fact - they are heavy). Time will tell what their new gun bearing system is like. Mystery ranch - the NICE frame is supposed to be great - if it fits you. For bigger folks, you're likely to need lifter strap extensions http://oneirosvalley.com/products/g2-load-lifter-panel-llp and the gun bearing is so / so at best. The Eberlestock - the knock is the frame (even the new one) isn't so much. Also the way the have gun bearing system in relation to the pack - heavy loads, steep and uneven terrain - the pack gets a swinging effect. Point being - none of them are perfect. Read up on them and pick your poison.

 

[Mike_Honcho]

Here is another thought - start with what your going to put in it then figure out how you want to carry it. ETA - you did that above - everything you listed would likely fit in a Scout - by itself and be a light load. Worst case a scout and a long pocket or two if you want carry full rain gear / hat / coat / extra socks and whatnot.

Here is my regular shooting bag (this is what I run around in the woods with):

Kifaru Scout / Claymore pocket / GrabIt / 2 Liter pocket on top / compass pouch / SAW pouch / 2 canteens / Carabiner. Upside - I have a much more free torso since the pack rides much lower. Also the way I have it configured I can toss a tripod / shovel / whatever in the GrabIt (Hint - GrabIts are outstanding). Downside - @ 40 - 45#s - it is overloaded (feels best up to @ 30# - which it never is loaded that light); doesn't allow for the onboard carry of a weapon.



Next to a Marauder. You can move through the brush better with the scout set up - esp if you pair it down (for weight) - since you have greater mobility. Keep in mind, you could conceptually rig up a Marauder / Pointman to carry a rifle via a grab it and a cargo chair. I intend to wait and watch how folks like the Nomad, but may move to that concept.


ETA - yes, that is powder fouling on the Marauder.

 

[SRSDriver]

The kifaru tactical line is heavier, but their old Ku line is super light - sub 3lbs. Even the tactical line tends to be lighter than most similar packs of other manufacturers (packs like the osprey being a backpacking style pack are way lighter).

The Nomad can be put on a Bikini frame for a pack that is a little over 4lbs. Their hunting line is much lighter than the tactical line, but uses lighter weight cloth. I'll be using a nomad on a bikini frame for long stuff this year. I'll post a review when I get it in a few weeks.

For day comps, I take my waist belt off my zulu, it doesn't help the nature of the shooting and is just a strap in the way. But ruck training it's nice, distributes the weight and puts the very well designed frames to work.

 

[nexusfire]

I looked at the x ray and it seemed to me there was a lack of organizing pockets with out buying a bunch of accessory pouches. Am I wrong about this?

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[jbailey]

I looked at the x ray and it seemed to me there was a lack of organizing pockets with out buying a bunch of accessory pouches. Am I wrong about this?

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The XRay has two pouches on the top flap of the pack - one internal and one external. Additionally it also has a internal pouch for a water bladder and a second, smaller pouch (for things like keys, glasses, Kestrel, etc) on hangers right next to the internal water bladder pouch. Then on the flap that opens on the front of the pack there is another pouch - this one is useful for things like paper, maps, ballistic info. All of these pouches have zippers. Additionally there are several columns of PALS internal to the pack.

I also have two external 'lock and dock' "pockets" on my Xray, adding another 700cu in. One of these is on the bottom of the pack and has my cold water gear and one is on the side with various items. Very easy and quick to add or remove these "pockets" with the PALS webbing.

 

[SporterII]

The XRay has two pouches on the top flap of the pack - one internal and one external. Additionally it also has a internal pouch for a water bladder and a second, smaller pouch (for things like keys, glasses, Kestrel, etc) on hangers right next to the internal water bladder pouch. Then on the flap that opens on the front of the pack there is another pouch - this one is useful for things like paper, maps, ballistic info. All of these pouches have zippers. Additionally there are several columns of PALS internal to the pack.

I also have two external 'lock and dock' "pockets" on my Xray, adding another 700cu in. One of these is on the bottom of the pack and has my cold water gear and one is on the side with various items. Very easy and quick to add or remove these "pockets" with the PALS webbing.

I think this is what I am going to invest in. I have a Gunslinger belt I got off a table and if this pack is not too big, Its me. My concern is if it rides too low interfering with what ever belt I am using as that is a given, wearing a belt. The X Ray was recommended to me by the maker and I was told it should ride with my basic load well with their belt or other.
Yours for sale Bailey?

 

[afate45]

Updated OP with my choice. Went with the TAD FAST Pack EDC.