I've had a blast with my Remington MLR but would now like to build something more precise. I prefer the bolt throw of the 2008 over the Surgeon as it is like my 308 and rimfire trainer as well as simply a bit easier to operate while prone. I also like the fact that it's just a bit more exotic perhaps than the Surgeon. I like the fact that the Surgeon has an integral rail as well as the fact that it uses a 1 1/8 tenon over the 1 1/16 2008. I plan to go unfluted 28" finished length in an A5. Can I use the Seekins bottom metal with either or both? I would welcome thoughts about the action choice. Thanks!
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Badger or Surgeon?
- Thread starter Blackbrush
- Start date
Re: Badger or Surgeon?
Two totally different actions. The badgers I've felt were all very tight and didn't feel like the AW actions they were modeled after. I would definitely go Surgeon if I were you.
Two totally different actions. The badgers I've felt were all very tight and didn't feel like the AW actions they were modeled after. I would definitely go Surgeon if I were you.
Re: Badger or Surgeon?
Bward nailed it yet for some reason I still want to do another build on the M2008!
Bward nailed it yet for some reason I still want to do another build on the M2008!
Re: Badger or Surgeon?
.......and you shoot a Surgeon
Isn't accuracy potential with the Surgeon possibly greater as the tenon is larger and integral rail even further stiffens the action?
.......and you shoot a Surgeon
Isn't accuracy potential with the Surgeon possibly greater as the tenon is larger and integral rail even further stiffens the action?
Re: Badger or Surgeon?
My Surgeon is just a few days old! I love it so far. It's very smooth and locks up like a bank vault. The M2008 is a great action but it seems most people love it or hate it. I'm a fan of variety but I think you would be very happy with the Surgeon.
My Surgeon is just a few days old! I love it so far. It's very smooth and locks up like a bank vault. The M2008 is a great action but it seems most people love it or hate it. I'm a fan of variety but I think you would be very happy with the Surgeon.
Re: Badger or Surgeon?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bward</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Two totally different actions. The badgers I've felt were all very tight and didn't feel like the AW actions they were modeled after. I would definitely go Surgeon if I were you. </div></div>
I recently acquired an M2008 built by GAP. Both bolt and raceway were cerakoted which felt like a million bucks when oiled and playing with it in the man cave. As soon as it was in field conditions, it was very bindy.
Called BO. They noted cerakoting the bolt/raceway isn't ideal for this very reason. They advised having it ion bonded. From the reports I've read, ion bond is the WHIP for that action.
I sent my bolt to them for a new firing pin spring and the Gen2 upgrades, they also precision-ground the bolt body .003" which totally fixed the problem.
I love the 2008, and intend on getting more of them.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bward</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Two totally different actions. The badgers I've felt were all very tight and didn't feel like the AW actions they were modeled after. I would definitely go Surgeon if I were you. </div></div>
I recently acquired an M2008 built by GAP. Both bolt and raceway were cerakoted which felt like a million bucks when oiled and playing with it in the man cave. As soon as it was in field conditions, it was very bindy.
Called BO. They noted cerakoting the bolt/raceway isn't ideal for this very reason. They advised having it ion bonded. From the reports I've read, ion bond is the WHIP for that action.
I sent my bolt to them for a new firing pin spring and the Gen2 upgrades, they also precision-ground the bolt body .003" which totally fixed the problem.
I love the 2008, and intend on getting more of them.
Re: Badger or Surgeon?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Blackbrush</div><div class="ubbcode-body">.......and you shoot a Surgeon
Isn't accuracy potential with the Surgeon possibly greater as the tenon is larger and integral rail even further stiffens the action?</div></div>
Who can actually shoot the difference between the two given quality barrels? Very few i imagine. I'm not in favor of one over the other they're both solid actions. I just feel accuracy lies more on the barrel more so than the action.
JMO but if you want to have a build on the M2008 go for it.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Blackbrush</div><div class="ubbcode-body">.......and you shoot a Surgeon
Isn't accuracy potential with the Surgeon possibly greater as the tenon is larger and integral rail even further stiffens the action?</div></div>
Who can actually shoot the difference between the two given quality barrels? Very few i imagine. I'm not in favor of one over the other they're both solid actions. I just feel accuracy lies more on the barrel more so than the action.
JMO but if you want to have a build on the M2008 go for it.
Re: Badger or Surgeon?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Buckey</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Surgeon actions are my favorite - run one & you'll see!!</div></div>
Well he already runs one
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Buckey</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Surgeon actions are my favorite - run one & you'll see!!</div></div>
Well he already runs one
Re: Badger or Surgeon?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Blackops_2</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Buckey</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Surgeon actions are my favorite - run one & you'll see!!</div></div>
Well he already runs one
</div></div>
My bad - had a rough night = DogfishHead 120 Minute IPA!!!
Ignore my post & carry on boys.....................................
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Blackops_2</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Buckey</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Surgeon actions are my favorite - run one & you'll see!!</div></div>
Well he already runs one
My bad - had a rough night = DogfishHead 120 Minute IPA!!!
Ignore my post & carry on boys.....................................
Re: Badger or Surgeon?
I've had a few opportunities to pick up a M2008, but I find myself declining the shot at owning one so I can continue to drool over the Surgeon... If only I had some extra money, I'd be in the elite group of Surgeon owners.
I've had a few opportunities to pick up a M2008, but I find myself declining the shot at owning one so I can continue to drool over the Surgeon... If only I had some extra money, I'd be in the elite group of Surgeon owners.
Re: Badger or Surgeon?
In an odd way, I'm happy to see so many folks enamored with Surgeon over Badger...
That means the price of the M2008 will stay low and it won't get the all-too-common popularity tax, and they'll stay on shelves long enough for me to buy them when I need one.
In an odd way, I'm happy to see so many folks enamored with Surgeon over Badger...
That means the price of the M2008 will stay low and it won't get the all-too-common popularity tax, and they'll stay on shelves long enough for me to buy them when I need one.
Re: Badger or Surgeon?
You are not going to see and accuracy difference in any custom action, or a trued rem for that matter. Don't fall for the marketing of one vs the other.
For me the lack of AM mags is a good reason not to run a Surgeon, Badger is too heavy so I run GA Templars.
You are not going to see and accuracy difference in any custom action, or a trued rem for that matter. Don't fall for the marketing of one vs the other.
For me the lack of AM mags is a good reason not to run a Surgeon, Badger is too heavy so I run GA Templars.
Re: Badger or Surgeon?
I like them both. For me it came down to size and weight. The Surgeon wins in that category.
I like them both. For me it came down to size and weight. The Surgeon wins in that category.
Re: Badger or Surgeon?
I ran a M2008 in .260 for a year. It was always a little finicky, mostly FTE's once in a while. The turning point for me was at this year's TPRC in Arizona. At every stage I was pulling cases out of the action, they would extract but not eject. Disassembled the bolt in the hotel that night, cleaned, reassembled. Everything was cool for 15 rounds and then it started doing the same thing. I contacted Badger and they sent me a "upgraded" extractor, turns out my action already had it. I came back from AZ on a Sunday, bought a Surgeon 591 on Monday, new .260 built 2 weeks later. Haven't looked back since, no issues at all.
I ran a M2008 in .260 for a year. It was always a little finicky, mostly FTE's once in a while. The turning point for me was at this year's TPRC in Arizona. At every stage I was pulling cases out of the action, they would extract but not eject. Disassembled the bolt in the hotel that night, cleaned, reassembled. Everything was cool for 15 rounds and then it started doing the same thing. I contacted Badger and they sent me a "upgraded" extractor, turns out my action already had it. I came back from AZ on a Sunday, bought a Surgeon 591 on Monday, new .260 built 2 weeks later. Haven't looked back since, no issues at all.
Re: Badger or Surgeon?
As someone said,..two totally differnt actions.
The Surgeon has alot of hype around it and yet its still just a Rem 700 clone action,..nothing special at all.
The M2008 is not an AW but is in simple terms vastly stronger than the Surgeon and far more riigid an action.
To the OP that had extractor issues: thats a simple gunsmith remedy not an action design flaw.
Cerakote on bolts and in raceways is just asking for trouble.
Its a pity Badger won't export officialy,...they would sell shit loads of the M2008 actions.
Same goes for Surgeon,..
As someone said,..two totally differnt actions.
The Surgeon has alot of hype around it and yet its still just a Rem 700 clone action,..nothing special at all.
The M2008 is not an AW but is in simple terms vastly stronger than the Surgeon and far more riigid an action.
To the OP that had extractor issues: thats a simple gunsmith remedy not an action design flaw.
Cerakote on bolts and in raceways is just asking for trouble.
Its a pity Badger won't export officialy,...they would sell shit loads of the M2008 actions.
Same goes for Surgeon,..
Re: Badger or Surgeon?
emouse...didn't you have an involvement with trying to bring Surgeon actions the UK at one time?
I certainly seem to remember there being an official importer at one time......
emouse...didn't you have an involvement with trying to bring Surgeon actions the UK at one time?
I certainly seem to remember there being an official importer at one time......
Re: Badger or Surgeon?
I like them both. I have several built up on both actions by GAP. Even with 2 different barrel manufacturers, they shoot e actly the same. No issues with either. I think you have to find someone near you to try out the Badger for at least 20 rounds. I'm sure you're already familiar with Remington actions so you know what a Surgeon feel like. I wouldn't worry too much about technical info, it's all about what you like.
The only thing I can really say between the 2 actions is the Badger requires a little more force to open the bolt. You are also limited to which stock you can use on the Badger. I think you can use them on a chassis system, a-5, MBR and their equivalent in Manners composites, KMW Sentinel. While the Surgeon will work on any Reminton inletted stock depending in which Surgeon model you buy.
Good luck with your choice. It's a tough one that's why I ended up buying several of both.
I like them both. I have several built up on both actions by GAP. Even with 2 different barrel manufacturers, they shoot e actly the same. No issues with either. I think you have to find someone near you to try out the Badger for at least 20 rounds. I'm sure you're already familiar with Remington actions so you know what a Surgeon feel like. I wouldn't worry too much about technical info, it's all about what you like.
The only thing I can really say between the 2 actions is the Badger requires a little more force to open the bolt. You are also limited to which stock you can use on the Badger. I think you can use them on a chassis system, a-5, MBR and their equivalent in Manners composites, KMW Sentinel. While the Surgeon will work on any Reminton inletted stock depending in which Surgeon model you buy.
Good luck with your choice. It's a tough one that's why I ended up buying several of both.
Re: Badger or Surgeon?
BAT Machine 3 lug octagon is massive and easy to cycle. Mine is black after melonite.
BAT Machine 3 lug octagon is massive and easy to cycle. Mine is black after melonite.
Re: Badger or Surgeon?
I've got a 308 built by APA on the M2008 action, and a 7WSM built on with Robert Gradous on a Surgeon 591R WSM. Both are excellent. The M2008 is a brick, but I've had no issues with it in two classes and one comp. I'd strongly recommend against coating the bolt. Leave it as is.
The Surgeon has been fantastic for my light tactical rifle. It's a laser, not as bulky as the M2008, and handles very well. I prefer lighter builds and the Surgeon action is about 1 lb lighter overall.
Bottom line, either is a great choice to build a rifle on.
I've got a 308 built by APA on the M2008 action, and a 7WSM built on with Robert Gradous on a Surgeon 591R WSM. Both are excellent. The M2008 is a brick, but I've had no issues with it in two classes and one comp. I'd strongly recommend against coating the bolt. Leave it as is.
The Surgeon has been fantastic for my light tactical rifle. It's a laser, not as bulky as the M2008, and handles very well. I prefer lighter builds and the Surgeon action is about 1 lb lighter overall.
Bottom line, either is a great choice to build a rifle on.
Re: Badger or Surgeon?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MWDG3</div><div class="ubbcode-body">BAT Machine 3 lug octagon is massive and easy to cycle. Mine is black after melonite.
</div></div>
Is that a repeater?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MWDG3</div><div class="ubbcode-body">BAT Machine 3 lug octagon is massive and easy to cycle. Mine is black after melonite.
Is that a repeater?
Re: Badger or Surgeon?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bward</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is that a repeater? </div></div>
Mine is with Remy bottom metal bolt patern.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bward</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is that a repeater? </div></div>
Mine is with Remy bottom metal bolt patern.
Re: Badger or Surgeon?
Thanks to all that have given this thread momentum. Remember that as I am chambering in 338LM, the Surgeon would be the XL version which is a flat bottom,square tang and actually heavier than the Badger.
The BAT looks like every bit as big a tank.
Am leaning toward the 2008....
Thanks to all that have given this thread momentum. Remember that as I am chambering in 338LM, the Surgeon would be the XL version which is a flat bottom,square tang and actually heavier than the Badger.
The BAT looks like every bit as big a tank.
Am leaning toward the 2008....
Re: Badger or Surgeon?
Badger
I put a large diameter knob (1.125") from PCR and it is a
night and day difference from the little tiny ass knob that
comes with it.
What the larger knob does is add leverage.
It unlocks so easily.
I also opened up the rear raceway just a hair and dont forget
just a touch of action grease on the lugs.
My Badger is so f*&^%ing smooth
AL
Badger
I put a large diameter knob (1.125") from PCR and it is a
night and day difference from the little tiny ass knob that
comes with it.
What the larger knob does is add leverage.
It unlocks so easily.
I also opened up the rear raceway just a hair and dont forget
just a touch of action grease on the lugs.
My Badger is so f*&^%ing smooth
AL
Re: Badger or Surgeon?
Get the Badger and send it to Springer Precision for IonBond. Tough as nails and slick as snot.
Get the Badger and send it to Springer Precision for IonBond. Tough as nails and slick as snot.
Re: Badger or Surgeon?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BasraBoy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">emouse...didn't you have an involvement with trying to bring Surgeon actions the UK at one time?
I certainly seem to remember there being an official importer at one time...... </div></div>
Yep,...tried to no avail to get Surgeon to ship direct. They are not interested or for that matter licenced to export. The chap that claimed to be their importer simply ripped off the design as his own and is still trying hard to seel a few. The problem is that our market is pretty small here and that ITAR makes import/export cost inneffective.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BasraBoy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">emouse...didn't you have an involvement with trying to bring Surgeon actions the UK at one time?
I certainly seem to remember there being an official importer at one time...... </div></div>
Yep,...tried to no avail to get Surgeon to ship direct. They are not interested or for that matter licenced to export. The chap that claimed to be their importer simply ripped off the design as his own and is still trying hard to seel a few. The problem is that our market is pretty small here and that ITAR makes import/export cost inneffective.
