Suppressors !!! Baffle Strikes !!!!

jwp6114

jwp6114

Gunny Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Mar 8, 2008
1,034
5
Newnan, GA
#1
ok, Let me set the scene... i have a surefire 7.62-fak can, i have had 2 baffle strikes, (SF customer service rocks),

1st strike... 175 Federal GMM from factory Rem 1-12 twist varmint... cant say that this does not stableize because i have made sub moa groups at 1000 yards with it...

2nd strike... same gun but re-barreled Hart 1-10 twist 24" pipe, Same AMMO, gun shoots 1" at 300yds,

Now i will say that groups at 100 yards are usualy are 1" or so, everyone like to talk about one hole groups at 100 but if the bullet is not hitting the paper sideways and holes are nice and round (mine are) WHY AM I GETTING BAFFLE STRIKES?

SF says that mine is the first can (EVER) to come in for repair twice... both barrels were threaded by (two different)very compatent gun smiths... there is no question that the threads are concentric with the bore...

Just got the can back from SF and am hesitant to shoot with it now (witch sounds crappy)...

I dont get why a sub moa gun with this ammo is producing baffle strikes... should i check the ammo for concentricity?

Ideas please...
 
#2
Re: !!! Baffle Strikes !!!!

You would think that after the first time you would try to eliminate all variables by switching to a different ammo. I would get my hands on some Black Hills, Sourhwest ammo, copper creek or something that is a very high quality match ammo
 
#3
Re: !!! Baffle Strikes !!!!

yeah I would say that with the can you should stick to high quality factory ammo. the only other thing that comes to mind is that maybe your getting some jacket separation at the end of the barrel and its not the bullet striking but the separating jacket.

just my 2 cents from a baffle strike buddy....sucks being scared to shoot your can..i know your pain
 
#4
Re: !!! Baffle Strikes !!!!

Try shooting with the can off at 10' and see if you are getting unstabilized bullets. Just for reference, you will see a quarterback throw a football and it leaves his hand wobbly but then within a few feet it will stabilize and run good. That is the problem you are encountering and it fits directly into the groups you see at 300 being the same that you see at 100.
 
#6
Re: !!! Baffle Strikes !!!!

It is good stuff. Obviously your gun likes it at distance but apparently it does not like it where it matters to the suppressor. Run a single sheet target with no backer and see what the holes look like. I am pretty sure you are gonna see some minor keyholing.
 
#7
Re: !!! Baffle Strikes !!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: chainring</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So y'all are saying that Federal 175 gr GMM is NOT quality match ammo? I must have missed that memo....
</div></div>

Did anyone say that? No....

I said try another high quality match ammo.... Black Hills Gold Match is better, goes a little faster to. FGM is a little to slow for me.
 
#8
Re: !!! Baffle Strikes !!!!

Same thought here on federal gmm ammo,

I will shoot at 10' though, sounds good, but if it shoots like crap at 10' but 1" @ 300 what should i do?

(pardon my lack of knowledge) Isn't black hills considered reloads? Suppressor manufactures don't like for you to shoot reloads right?

I figured 1-10 twist would be plenty for that bullet weight...
 
#9
Re: !!! Baffle Strikes !!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JWP6114</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Same thought here on federal gmm ammo,

I will shoot at 10' though, sounds good, but if it shoots like crap at 10' but 1" @ 300 what should i do?

(pardon my lack of knowledge) Isn't black hills considered reloads? Suppressor manufactures don't like for you to shoot reloads right? </div></div>

If you are happy with the ammo performance, stick with it but with the can. I also agree that it is a little slow for my liking and I normally shoot the 175 ammo. Quality reloads or quality new loaded ammo will be fine. No difference except that one of them used once fired brass. Southwest has treated us great and you might want to try a box or two of their's. I always test all my suppressed guns just like I told you to, it is easier to find problems at 10' without the can than to try to explain that you have had baffle strikes. Have you verified that the exit of the can is in fact true to the bore? A cleaning rod, carbon arrow or anything that is same size that fits tight, will prove that the threading was done correctly.
 
#10
Re: !!! Baffle Strikes !!!!

i think i did run a cleaning rod down it in the past and dont remember seeing any issues, but i will again right now, with and without the can on it. report back soon...

Azprc, can you attest to any suppressor companies condoning the use of any ammo not loaded by a large well know "factory new" ammo brand... I.E. Remington, Hornady, Federal, Corbon, ect...

or would you consider black hills, or any other (dont know of many) non large brand name ammo makers to be factory new quality in the eyes of the suppressor company,,, i suppose thats a question for the suppressor company...

UPDATE... yea no issue with running cleaning rod (dewy coated) down from breach or can, look through both ends with bolt out and looks like perfect alignment,,, next stop shooting at 10'.

thanks for all the help and advice so far.
 
#11
Re: !!! Baffle Strikes !!!!

I run suppressors and do most of my own loading, I also use a ton of SW ammo 308 and have had no problems to date. I can imagine them putting that disclaimer in there, but how would they know and what would make reloads incompatible with the can, other than an undercharged round. Almost all the guys that run a can in matches, run reloaded equipment and I have not heard of any problems from that. In all the years running cans, I have had one baffle strike and it was a case of the baffle coming loose when the impact occuried. Not the bullets fault.
 
#12
Re: !!! Baffle Strikes !!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JWP6114</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Same thought here on federal gmm ammo,

I will shoot at 10' though, sounds good, but if it shoots like crap at 10' but 1" @ 300 what should i do?

(pardon my lack of knowledge) Isn't black hills considered reloads? Suppressor manufactures don't like for you to shoot reloads right?

I figured 1-10 twist would be plenty for that bullet weight... </div></div>

Black Hills Gold Match is not a reload.... its some of the best loaded ammo you can purchase. Ive used it for 5 years with no issues. I also use Southwest, Copper Creek, McCourt Munitions, and Dallas Reloads. They are all top notch ammo makers.
 
#13
Re: !!! Baffle Strikes !!!!

Blackhills anything is good ammo. The "reloads" they are talking about are your neighbor...or you...making mistakes during the reloading process and pooch-screwing your can. Blackhills is good to go, quality factory ammo.
 
#14
Re: !!! Baffle Strikes !!!!

i understand, i just want to hear that from Surefire or AAC being that there the ones that have to fullfil their waranties... but am correct in that a 10 twist should be plenty for a 175 grain bullet?
 
#17
Re: !!! Baffle Strikes !!!!

do you mean what is the torque of the muzzel device? or am i ratcheting the can on the flash hider properly? I assume your familiar with the SF 7.62-FAK...From what i discribed to the SF head of enginering he says im instaling it properly... the muzel device is not loose or coming loose... and the can is installed on said muzzel device so i can not obtain another click by rotating it (the can) back and forth while holding tention on the ratcheting ring in the tightening direction.
 
#18
Re: !!! Baffle Strikes !!!!

Kinda a two part response

Yeah I'm assuming your break or flash hider is rockset on, when you get the suppressor on there and tighten it down do you still get a little play in the can?

The only reason I ask is I had an issue with the threads under my brake, everything was nice and tight, rockset and torqued. My gun shot well under an inch till I put my can on then it opened up to 2ft at 100yds... Can was tight, brake was tight I couldn't figure it out then surefire told me to look at the threads under my brake.... They were fucked up bad, after a trip back to the gun smith to cut and thread again my problem was fixed.

I'd pull your muzzle devise off and look, just going down the check list, I know for me limiting the chance of blowing a hole in the side of my can is worth a look
 
#19
Re: !!! Baffle Strikes !!!!

Sure, i will pull my flash hider off this evening... do you know how your threads got dick'd up? I saw mine with my own eyes before i put the flash hider on and they look'd great.
 
#20
Re: !!! Baffle Strikes !!!!

If you personally saw them I wouldn't worry too much about it, the gun smith who did the work ether used a dull cutter head or not enough oil when he did the cut causing a few threads to shear off.... I won't name names on the gun smith cause he made it right and hooked me up with a bunch of free stuff.

The second time around on the threading he hand fitted the brake, he didnt just cut 5/8-24 and slap it on there.
 
#21
Re: !!! Baffle Strikes !!!!

yea, both gun smiths i use here in GA are super high quality an reasonably priced... as far as my issue, i need to shoot some at 10' and mabey talk to someone at federals ammo plant...
 
#23
Re: !!! Baffle Strikes !!!!

Well I'm just glad so far it hasn't cost me anything but time... Not 1 penny. Their customer service and repair turnaround time is great... I told their head of engineering if it happened again I would send them the rest of the ammo and the rifle for them to look at and shoot...
 
#24
Re: !!! Baffle Strikes !!!!

If the gun has a custom barrel you should be grouping better than 1" at 100 yards (or at least that would seem reasonable).

If you have a 1/2MOA capable barrel and it's shooting 1MOA that might be indicative of slightly eccentric brake apertures (bad adaptor) or bad adapter mounting.

It would make sense to optically check alignment before shooting. Even a great shop could potentially make a mistake. Human error will always exist.

In machining everything is a process- get something out of order and the job may not turn out right.
 
#26
Re: !!! Baffle Strikes !!!!

Hope this isn't the case. My GA/Sugeon eats FGGM 175's all day, and is a .25 killer. Have a 30P on the way, and really, don't want to have to worry about this.
 
#28
Re: !!! Baffle Strikes !!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: netranger6</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hope this isn't the case. My GA/Sugeon eats FGGM 175's all day, and is a .25 killer. Have a 30P on the way, and really, don't want to have to worry about this. </div></div>

I don't think you should have to worry. The 1MOA 100 yard accuracy the poster is reporting is not similar to your .25MOA.

A lot of manuals don't suggest checking the bore alignment visually prior to using a suppressor. In most cases an issue is visibly detectable, and could save someone a lot of grief.
 
#30
Re: !!! Baffle Strikes !!!!

OP - Call Surefire and ask to get a new mount for your suppressor. Then send that new mount and your rifle to a smith you KNOW you can trust and see how it shoots when it comes back.

Or

Get a new barrel as your runout is something atrocious.....
 
#32
Re: !!! Baffle Strikes !!!!

I dont think the problem likes in the projectile you are using in the FGM. Others would be reporting it to. I have shot that stuff in a pinch, and thats when I made note that it was to slow for me.

I own that same suppressor. The mount and can lockup is pretty important.
 
#33
Re: !!! Baffle Strikes !!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JWP6114</div><div class="ubbcode-body">yea... i realy need a concentricity gauge...</div></div>

I can't imagine concentricity being a baffle strike factor, it'd have to be way off.

My money is on the mount/flash hider since that's the only thing that is the same all the way through. That 1-10" barrel is twisting those 175's plenty fast. I'm surprised on the 2nd time Surefire didn't ask to see the mount too.
 
#34
Re: !!! Baffle Strikes !!!!

Hey JWP6114 touch base with me and I will get a new adapter to you and I want to re-run a QC inspection on the current one. I doubt it is the mount as each one goes thru QC before and after heat treat including a spin fixture and comparator machine but we need to go thru the steps and rule it out. Sent you a PM
 
#36
Re: !!! Baffle Strikes !!!!

@ KUDU22: got the break today, looks great i will report back when i get a chance to shoot it, and my flash hider is on its way to you for QC tests...

on a side note I also recieved a sinclare international digital concentricity gauge this week... I went up to the local gun store bought a box of Fed 175 GMM ammo and began to check the factory rounds to find that about 3 of 20 were .003 out of round and 1 of the 20 was .006 out of round at the case neck.

the majority of the projectiles were with in .0015 to .002 wich i would say is ok, but an out of round neck doesnt help the projectile start out on its way down the pipe straight...

would love for someone at Federal to chime in... if their ammo is consistant and 5% of their premium ammo is .006 out of round at the case neck then they have QC issues...

I am of the understanding that .003 is at the edge of the limit for premium quality ammo.

there are no other dealers in town that sell any other high quality match ammo and i get a fair deal on the FGMM so thats why i have been using it exclusivly. but i would love to see some results of others preforming similar tests on other ammo's

Thanks again to Garin Lee at SureFire, you guys stand behind your product with pride and it wouldn't suprize me at all for the results of your upcoming QC test to show no faults.
 
#37
Re: !!! Baffle Strikes !!!!

Well just a little follow up, i eventually shot a few rounds at 25 yards and 10 feet, the resultes at 25 yards werent as bad as i thought they might be and the resultes at 10" were actualy better than 25 yards... but i still intend to contact Federal and ask them about their tolerances for their match ammo...

As for the SF flash hider, Garin got back to me and determined that the flish hider was slightly out of spec on one of the mating surfaces of the adapter and promptly replaced it at no expense to me.

so in conclusion i would say that my 2 incidents may have been a combination of the ammo and the flash hider to some degree, i have to say that i put over 900 rounds total through the can during this time period of these 2 incidents so is not like it happened every time i pulled the trigger. to some degree it had to be a combination but i am still leaning towards the ammo until i talk to someone at federal.

I want to thank Garin and the guys at SF for stannding by their product by offering such imediate support. (as any top notch manufacturer should)

As for a range report with the SF MB762-211C Muzzle break...

with running just a thread protector or a standard flash hider my rifle (weighing in @ 14 lbs) had a sinificant jump up and to the right. felt recoil was very managable (its just a .308) (i do not load the bi-pod at all).

after installing the SF break adapter i shot about 50 rounds and noticed there was virtualy no felt recoil and the jump high and right was reduced by about 85%,

today i am going to the range and am going to play with loading up the bi-pod a little and see how it helps my groups and the guns jump. of course ultamately i woud like to see my own impacts and I think i would be able to with my standard shooting technique if i werent shooting at 100 yards at full 22x.

will report back this evening if i rmember.
 
#38
Re: !!! Baffle Strikes !!!!

Deleted as the issue was fixed
laugh.gif
 
#39
Re: !!! Baffle Strikes !!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: nehumanus</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Deleted as the issue was fixed
laugh.gif
</div></div>

interested in what your coment was... PM me if your not comfotable sharing with everyone.
 
#40
Re: !!! Baffle Strikes !!!!

Was just going to give a nod to the threading check on the barrel or alignment of the flash suppressor. Mine is a direct thread variety and was just off kilter enough for the round to graze the exit hole of the can.

Not a hard strike, but enough to wreak havoc with accuracy. Grabbed one of my carbon fiber arrows and ran it down the barrel and confirmed the threading offset in relation to the channel in the can. Was no where near centered. No damage to the can thankfully.

Folks that did the threading apologized and made it right by funding the replacement of the entire barrel and a threading job done correctly
laugh.gif


Shoots like a champ now.
 
#41
Re: !!! Baffle Strikes !!!!

where can i get one of these carbon fober arrow rods and how do i pic the right diameter?

on a side note, both times i had my baffel strikes after the one round impacted,,, i continued shooting it for the day and noticed NO degraded accuracy. GO SF...
 
#44
Re: !!! Baffle Strikes !!!!

good news..
I'm just curious if you had the threads check with the bore for concentricity?
There should be a LIL tollerance from the threads, SF FH and the barrel.

I have a couple sent off to have the bore and threads checked for concentricity.
One of which will have a SF MB211C on it..
 
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