Range Report ballistic software

[mangus]

I have been shooting long range for about five years and I'm in need of ballistic software but I have no idea where to start.
I live in oklahoma with an elevation of about 1500 feet. I'm going hunting in colorado with an elevation of about 8000 feet.
What I'm looking for is software that can take into account me sighting in my rifle at 1500 feet, eighty degrees and taking the shot in colorado at 8000 feet and 30 degrees. Is there a software program that can take these factors into consideration so I don't have to resight my rifle in everytime I hunt at different elevations and temperature?
Thanks in advance for the help

 

[cluebat]

Re: ballistic software

Knowing what platform you are going to be running it on would be helpful. Do you own an iPod Touch or iPhone? A Pocket PC?

Not software, but I've heard good things about these Field Density Altitude Compensator (FDAC).

 

[desertHK]

Re: ballistic software

I use the FFS Delta IV with an HP ipaq 211. Works real well. Still learning about it.

 

[gafferq2xl]

Re: ballistic software

I have and use the NF version of Exbal on both PC & PDA and I'm fairly happy with it.

Recently, I got the Applied Ballistics for PC which has G1 & G7 drag curves. I looked for a few hours today at Android devices to use the Shooter software on; http://sean.kndy.net/shooter/

I really like the feature where you can sink it to your Blue tooth Kestrel for Atmos input!

I'm liking this device to use it on since I don't have a Droid phone-yet; http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.32827

 

[aac_shooter]

Re: ballistic software

I just bought the Shooter app. It is the first I have ever bought and I am blown away by it. It will make my life at the range much better, and the fact that you can sinc the Kestrel to it makes it the shit.

 

[marine1833]

Re: ballistic software

the app isnipe for the ipod is a good one.

 

[desertHK]

Re: ballistic software

Exbal is a great program also. However, the main limitation for Exbal is the trajectory stops at 2000 yards. So, if you plan to shoot within 2000 yards, it's a great program for the price. Once you go beyond 2000 yards, then it's a guessing game.

 

[mangus]

Re: ballistic software

I won't be shooting past 2000, (I wish)six to eight hundred is where I range but I havent had a chance to pattern this rifle in different weather. I did go out with a felow shooter with a cold gun, stored in his trunk about about freezing temperature. Cold bore shot was about two or three feet low at five hundred if I remember correctly. I'm planning an antelope hunt in the future and don't want the same thing happening to me. thats why I'm looking into a program that will factor in temperature of when it was sighted in an account for the weather I'm going to take the shot in.
As far as what I'm going to use, probably a PDA, I didn't even think about the Ipod touch, but that is an intresting thought.
Thanks for all the assistance. It seems the more I shoot the more I learn just how much I don't know. Thanks again for the point in the right direction.

 

[Lindy]

Re: ballistic software

Not many programs will compensate for the change in muzzle velocity with temperature, so with those you must manually change it, assuming that you know what to change it to.

Field Firing Solutions will adjust the muzzle velocity with temperature, once you've told it what the change per degree is. And JBM Ballistics is an online program which will do that as well.

 

[desertHK]

Re: ballistic software

The change in velocity per degree temperature is certainly very nice in the FFS Delta IV. Looking back at my data, it definitely reflected in the change in elevation needed to get to the same distance at different temperatures.

 

[azimutha]

Re: ballistic software

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lindy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not many programs will compensate for the change in muzzle velocity with temperature, so with those you must manually change it, assuming that you know what to change it to.

Field Firing Solutions will adjust the muzzle velocity with temperature, once you've told it what the change per degree is. And JBM Ballistics is an online program which will do that as well.

</div></div>Forgive my ignorance, but where in JBM would I set this (other than manually changing the MV field is there something I'm missing)?

 

[bigwheeler]

Re: ballistic software

The jbm and rsi change for temp. But you will see a muzzle velocity change
with a lot of powders and loads. For the temps we see up here I would never
use ballistics checked at 40 degrees for a coyote hunt at 5 degrees without
confirming first. If you've ever tried to ignite a fire in cold weather you know
the primer is not doing the same job in extreme cold.

 

[azimutha]

Re: ballistic software

Okay, I see where, if I change just temp (from my zero of 55F) I get changes in downrange velocity...and I would expect that since temperature decrease increases air density. So nothing new there. But it sounded like there was some setting that would auto-magically change muzzle velocity. That I don't see and would expect to have to confirm with a chronograph. According to JBM, if I allow a 25 fps decrease in MV @ 30F, I'd have to correct my drop by .1 mils more @ 500 yards. Correspondingly, a 25 fps increase @ 80F would result in a .1 mil decrease in drop. So not much change there.

Assume a more drastic 75 fps decrease @ -20F and @ 500 yards the increase in drop would be .4 mils from my zero...something to take into consideration. But I sure wouldn't worry about the 1-1.5" (.1 mil) drop @ 300 yards.

 

[wadebrown]

Re: ballistic software

Rising temperature and humidity cause the air density to go down. I have spent enough working with small aerial vehicles in hot and dusty areas to know the air density goes down as the temperature goes up. They are harder to launch at 110 than 60, due to the lighter air.

The decreasing temperature does at least two things to the ballistics solution. Probably the biggest change is it reduces the reaction rate of the powder so the burn rate is different probably slower. The increase in air density will also put increased drag on the bullet, but I think the ballistic effects of the changed burn characteristics will be larger than those due to the air density effects.

I live in Minnesota and in the winter I usually shoot from a heated building so my ammo is at say 60 degrees and the outside temp is a lot lower and my dope out to 300 yards is the basically the same as I use at 60 degrees in a match in balmier weather.

You could work with JBM ballistics to see which effect is greater, use your velocity at a know temperature and than simulate the temp dropping by decreasing the velocity be 1.-2. fps per degree of temp loss and see what the dope is. The 1-2 fps of drop in velocity for a 1 degree drop in temp seems to be wjhat people use as a rule of thumb for the effects of temp change on the velocity. Then go back and use the baseline velocity and change the temp in JBM and see what the dope is. When you have the two results compare them. This is far from a perfect test but I think it will reveal some of the effects that you are wondering about.

wade

 

[Lindy]

Re: ballistic software

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">But it sounded like there was some setting that would auto-magically change muzzle velocity.</div></div>

It's in the calculator which outputs density altitude ballistic cards.

http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmcard-5.1.cgi

For a more complete explanation of using that screen, see:

Making Ballistic Cards Using Density Altitude

 

[azimutha]

Re: ballistic software

I totally get the effects of temp. and humidity on downrange velocities. It just sounded initially like there was some correction in these apps to muzzle velocity that occurred automatically when temp. was changed. That I'm not seeing. I'm also not seeing a lot of difference using my typical range of operating temperatures (down to 5F) and assuming a 2 fps/degree difference in MV, e.g. I can take JBM down from 2650 to 2550 fps and temp from 55 down to 5 and the difference @ 500 yards will be .4 mils or 7.2".

I'm not saying it's not worth taking MV changes into account. I'm all for the most accurate input possible. However, I'd say (without some testing of my own) at this point that there is not much difference in trajectory at ranges under 500 yards because of changes in MV. I am saying this a hunter, not a target shooter. I'm still more concerned with the effect of altitude or weather on barometric pressure.

Here's a link to an interesting test: http://www.shootingsoftware.com/ftp/Pressure%20Factors.pdf. One factor mentioned is the effect of barrel temperature on pressure. The author found a significant effect, even on powders like Varget. When I get a chance, I will, of course, do my testing with a cold barrel (in every sense of the word since it will likely be less than 10F) because that's what concerns me when I'm hunting. In other words, my zero was obtained with a barrel at or near ambient temperature and I'll test MV at a different, but still ambient temperature.

 

[Lindy]

Re: ballistic software

At 500 yards or less, you can pretty much ignore changes in atmospheric density as well as muzzle velocity.

 

[azimutha]

Re: ballistic software

Crap. Dammit. That's so succinct.

 

[wadebrown]

Re: ballistic software

I have read articles on the effects of barrel temperature and I do not disagree with what most of them say. Maybe my guns have not read the articles as they do not agree as much as I do. When I shoot an F-class match at 1,000 yards I get unlimited sighters (usually around 5 taken) and 20 shots for record inside of 22 minutes. When the conditions warrant it I will shoot as fast as I can and have an extremely hot barrel, yea my barrels do not last very long.

During the course of fire described I may have changed my vertical at most .5 MOA, maybe my gun doesn't belief the theory on barrel temp. Granted during the course of fire I will only close the bolt on a loaded round when the conditions warrant it so the round heats up as little as possible.

I am lucky as I have ranges available to me most days of the week up to 1,000 yards so I get out and test shooting at all ranges before a match.

wade