Bang For Buck

[AdvenJack]

Hello to you all. Thanks for sharing your info. I'm here to learn. So here's my "value for my dollar" question. For mile long shots at a 20" by 30" steel plate, what caliber is the most cost efficient, keeping the idea of reasonably limited bullet drop and reasonably limited deflection from cross wind? Give me some numbers here please to help me see your train of thought. 1760 yards is far enough for my dreams. We all know 375 Cheytac is a beauty in this league, but it sure isn't a "medium cost" caliber in ammo components nor rifle acquisition. So what is, .338 Edge, or...??? For me, to loose 10% of effectiveness while saving 40% of my money makes sense, just to give an example. Thanks again!

 

[jasonk]

Re: Bang For Buck

Including the cost of the rifle? If so then something that Remington offers like 300 RUM, 338 RUM or 338LM.

A 300 win mag built to shoot the heavies will get there I believe and is pretty cheap to shoot....not counting the initial cost of the custom rifle.

 

[AdvenJack]

Re: Bang For Buck

Shoot1760 posts exactly what I was hoping to see!!! The <span style="font-weight: bold">13th</span> post including the opener.

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1921458#Post1921458

<span style="color: #FF0000"><span style="font-weight: bold">Originally by shoot1760: </span>Not that I agree with everyone here,,but XLR has a point I should have addressed....If money is an issue...Dude, don't go with the chey tac...snipe tac,,,etc....You will be buying a big mac meal every time you pull the trigger. My snipe tac will not be my defacto shooter.

My defacto shooter is my 338 edge. Problem is my edge does great to 1900 yards, but man at 2,000 I cant hit the broad side of a barn. It goes transonic and everything goes to hell.

But to 1900 yards, the 338 edge is much cheaper to shoot, it weighs only 15 pounds, it kicks like a 243 (with my huge break), my 10 year old can shoot it to 1,000 yards and its a tack driver.

And lastly, guys are now shooting the new bergers out of the edge and the lapua and UNDER 2,860 fps, this new bullet is having some killer results. If you can get the berger to fly, you can extend the 1900 yards by the edge by a couple hundred more.

As everyone knows, berger is working on revision two, and it looks like the second gen bullet will performe at speeds much higher than what my edge can shoot. Im also hearing that berger may continue to sell the first gen bullet for guys that just don't need to exceede the 2,860 or so velocity.

So not to confuse you, but you have alot of choices. And money may help you determine the direction to take</span>

 

[jrob300]

Re: Bang For Buck

Can you clarify your need a little?

Do you need first round cold bore hits at 1760 every time? Or are you happy with hitting some percentage of the time? What percentage? Remember 20" is 1.1 MOA at that distance. Are you looking to learn to dope wind? Or defeat it?

Are you looking to knock paint off or are you thinking of engaging living targets eventually.

One of the RUM's or the Edge is probably the cheapest route to hit consistently. If you're content with less consistency, and want to save on repetitive costs, one of the 7's or the 300WM will get you there, they're just starting to run out of steam and wind is going to be more of a factor.


John

 

[QRE23]

Re: Bang For Buck

Off the shelf gun, probably pretty hard to beat a Rem. M700 in 338RUM and would easily be the cheapest. Next, keeping cost in mind, would be semi custom Rem. action in 338edge. If you wanted to step up to a custom action or modify, probably not the best idea, a Rem. 700 action a 338 Lapua Improved would be the next step.

You can consider a 338-378 Wby. but their accuracy loads typically shoot the same FPS or slower than the Lapua Improved and brass is more expensive and won't last nearly as long as the Lapua brass. I've read where some guys have good results with a Wby. MkV action and opening the bolt face up to a Lapua but the base donor rifle will cost more and if you decide to go that route you want to make sure you find a "smith" that likes working with the Wby. action.

 

[steve123]

Re: Bang For Buck

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AdvenJack</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hello to you all. Thanks for sharing your info. I'm here to learn. So here's my "value for my dollar" question. For mile long shots at a 20" by 30" steel plate, what caliber is the most cost efficient, keeping the idea of reasonably limited bullet drop and reasonably limited deflection from cross wind? Give me some numbers here please to help me see your train of thought. 1760 yards is far enough for my dreams. We all know 375 Cheytac is a beauty in this league, but it sure isn't a "medium cost" caliber in ammo components nor rifle acquisition. So what is, .338 Edge, or...??? For me, to loose 10% of effectiveness while saving 40% of my money makes sense, just to give an example. Thanks again.

</div></div>

If money is the main concern and of course assuming you reload then 7STW,7mm mag or 7wsm would work.The 175-190 grain bullets have a high BC and won't do too bad in the wind.

Edited to clarify that you'll need a custom 9 twist barrel to stabilize the 180 class bullets.

Believe it or not even those graced with the mighty 375CT still miss at a mile quite often,especially if the winds up.

 

[AdvenJack]

Re: Bang For Buck

Excellent stuff guys!!! I DO RELOAD. I am definitely NOT trying to pinch every penny; but I don't want to go $10,000. S&B 5x25 scope atop a DTA HTI in 375 CT: www.deserttacticalarms.com/hti-375-ct-conversion-kit.
I think the above rifle and the smaller DTA SRS are very attractive with their short overall lengths at what ever caliber; but right now over my cost cap. Five thousand for scope and rifle is where I'd like to top out. I will not shoot live targets with this rifle; steel and the like only. I would LOVE first shot, cold bore hits if that's realistic. jrob300 asks if I want to dope the wind or defeat it. If I understand the definition of "dope the wind" correctly: <span style="font-weight: bold">to accurately determine the number of inches the wind will push a bullet sideways at a certain distance from the shooter,</span> I guess a certain amount of "doping" is needed no matter what caliber one uses. I think I'd rather defeat more than "dope" the wind to answer you. Interesting to hear 7mm can do this type of shooting. I would never have guessed under .338 cal!

 

[Sharpy]

Re: Bang For Buck

hey guys I could be off the ball here but if someone mentioned the 7mmwsm would the 6.5 284 work?It hangs in there with that round in f class but does it run out of steam after 1200?

 

[steve123]

Re: Bang For Buck

Yep,6.5-284 will work. It might be a little tougher to see where you miss because of the smaller dust signature and it'll be petering out pretty good by then but no guts no glory as they say.

 

[bohem]

Re: Bang For Buck

The 6.5-284 will do the job. It's very close in capability to the 6.5-06 and I've put my 6.5-06 out to Tom Sarver's mile target (I believe it's 1680yd) and the 140 Bergers arrive point first and repeatably. When it's freshly rained out I can see slight mud puffs, but when it has been dry for a while I can see the dirt fluff without an issue from the 22x setting on my scope.

 

[GasLight]

Re: Bang For Buck

I am going to try to run a straight .284 out that far... haven't built it yet, but on paper it looks good. Wanting to try the newly re-released WildCat bullets 200 grain 7mm. Supposed to have a BC in the .890 range. Push it at around 2700 should be good to 2000, especially with a little altitude density help. Just need to run it in a long action for the powder room.

 

[CA48]

Re: Bang For Buck

For 6.5-284, 7mm stw and related calibers although brass,bullets, and powder in the long run in the case of cost efficiency would be cheaper. Its important to highlight that they might only have half the bbl life of the 300 win mag or the 338 Rum which could in fact have a different effect on cost and also added with sending them in to be re barreled more often which can mean twice the waiting to get your rifle back from the smith. This is just a thought to throw out there. Every one has different preferences and likes of caliber choice and this may not be an issue if you don't shoot near as often some others and if not the 6.5s or 7s might be for you.

 

[2bfarming]

Re: Bang For Buck

I woul rather go with a factory gun like a 5R 300wm or rem 700 338lupua and spend the remainder of my money on ammo to practice and the support equipment like PDA, Range finder that will range to the capability of my gun, Kestrel,etc.

Most guys seem to put the gun first and I understand why but imho the support equip is EVERY bit as important and its NOT cheap.

 

[desertHK]

Re: Bang For Buck

If you are going to shoot only up to one mile, then I would consider "cheaper" calibers to shoot than the all mightly 375 CT. I love my 338LM, but you can stretch the 300 WM to one mile if using the proper projo and speed. Like Steve123 said, it doesn't matter what you shoot, if the wind is kicking up a bit, everything is fair game. If I can't have my 338LM, I would pick my 300 WM with a 208 AMAX projo instead for the one mile shot.

 

[V-Ref]

Re: Bang For Buck

Given your goals, my choices/COAs would be-

1. Rem MLR 700P in 338 Lapua.
2. Rem Sendero w mag bolt face. Rebarrel to 338 Edge.
3. Rem Sendero w mag bolt face. Rebarrel to 300 RUM.
4. Rem Sendero w mag bolt face. Rebarrel to 300 Win.

I'd order up a $300 custom barrel. Then pay a smith for-
Chamber, Fit and Crown SS Barrel $250
True Remington 700 Receiver & Bolt $250
Pillar Bed Rifle Stock $250
Muzzle Break w/install $250

Redding Competition FL sizer set, or Forster Ultra Benchrest FL sizer set with the FL sizer sent to JLC for the $45 neck bushing mod.

The Lapua will be the priciest up front, but the brass will pay for itself on the long haul.

The Edge is a proven deal. Don't know about you, but I have better things to do then argue with results.

The RUM won't have the recoil of the three three eights, will come very close to running wind with the bigger pricer bullets, but will eat up barrels.

The Win will have the least punch on both the target and at the back of the rifle. If you can scare up some Lapua or RWS brass, your brass might outlive your barrel.

2 day shipping to and from the smith for the rebarrel would make up the cost difference between the four above when comparing the costs associated with the build and shooting 2000 rounds IMO.

Envision which one it is you will reach for to shoot and practice with the most....pick that one.

 

[V-Ref]

Re: Bang For Buck

If are to consider your time (both wait for components, and to/from range for load development), reloading component costs associated with load development, post purchase support, and ability to take a rifle out of the box and obtain your goals.....then here is shameless plug for Travis's rifle for sale.

These kind of deals represent the best of value IMO. You will likely get a target(s) that demonstrate precision potential. The barrel is likely broke in already. There are no mysteries to solve. Make some ammo. Go shoot and learn. Mission accomplished.

PM him and ask him how good he assures it will shoot with the right ammo and shooter....

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1972195

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Bang For Buck

I keep thinking of the old adage, 'all dressed up and nowhere to go'. I used to travel Rt80 between NJ and PA, and I'm wondering where someone from around there would go to shoot that mile distance.

What have you been shooting prior, and where are you doing it?

 

[bohem]

Re: Bang For Buck

I agree with Greg, my parents live up there and it's hard to find long distances to shoot out there. The best bet is to get permission to shoot on old strip mine land but that's difficult just as well.

I live near Philly now and I find myself trekking to SE Ohio each month to shoot at Thunder Valley Precision.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Bang For Buck

Here in Central NY, we need to trek to Bodines (near Williamsport PA) or Forbes (near Albany NY) to find 1Kyd club ranges.

Getting all wound up for a mile would make more sense if you had a specific place in mind where you know you'll be able to accomplish the distance.

If all you can manage is 1Kyd, there's very little sense to go bigger than a 6.5mm chambering, and then leave the more exotic stuff for the folks with the real estate, like out/down in the Southwest.

Even at Raton/Whittington, the farthest targets are at 1Km/1123yd. BTDT very satisfactorily with a 24" .260 Rem. That barrel was on a factory Savage 10FP, but they no longer offer that chambering.

Greg

 

[ArcticFun]

Re: Bang For Buck

For the complete package under $5,000 have you considered the Sako TRG-42 with either a Leupold or Nightforce to top it off? You get a .338 Lapua, aa proven, accurate system and depending on scope choice, plenty of elevation to reach your intended target.

Another more attractive option (in my mind) would be to buy the DTA SRS in .300 WM or .338 Lapua. Then save for your scope of choice. After that buy a .308 barrel. With that setup you would have roughly $10,000 invested in a weapon system that you can shoot for $.50-$5.00 a trigger pull, true 0-1760 yard capabilities, the need for just one quality scope versus 2 etc... It will take longer to aquire yes but in the end you have a rifle with a proven track record, proven quality and it can be shot all the time. And I don't know about you guys but I defineately haven't seen a used DTA for sale anywhere. It's just some food for thought but like I tell my friend on a daily basis, instant gratification isn't where it's at. If you know what you want ideally then Save and get it. It's why I have a GLX instead of an Uglystick (fly fishing poles). It took longer than I would have liked but I couldn't be happier. Good luck with your search.