Barnard Sm ACTION or AI AE MK2

[gyt]

Hi guys .New to this forum, this is my first post.
I want to ask your opinion and suggestion .
I have to decide between two rifles options for mid – long range competition rifle.
We shoot prone position, for 100-600 meters, bipod in front and sand bag at the rear.
Our ammunition is factory load only, from I.M.I., mainly .308 win 168 grain match cartridges. Occasionally we use 175 grain. No weight limit.
The two options are: AI AE MK 2 folding stock 24 inch barrel with 1:12 twist.
The other one, is custom build from DOLPHIN GUN U.K: Barnard SM Action, Jewel trigger, AICS stock, Bartlein 30 inch long,12 twist barrel, heavy contour, Barnard Rail for scope, 5-10 round HS magazine .Accuracy required : 0.5 m.o.a. or less.
Does anybody have any experience with DOLPHIN GUN /BARNARD actions?
Does the AI AE MK2 has the ability to group 0.5 m.o.a. with that ammunition behind 300 meters? Will custom build rifle shoot better? How does the HS magazine performs? Lots of questions but we do not have here anybody to consult with. It can be a problem, to find a gunsmith to change barrels in the future.
Thank you
GYT

 

[TallShot]

Re: Barnard Sm ACTION or AI AE MK2

Are you in the UK? Completing the profile would be helpful.


With what you said taken into consideration, I would go with the AI AE. Admittedly, I dont know much of anything about the other rifle; and, I am a very happy AE MkII owner.

I think the barrel changes with the AE would fit your situation better, with the possible lack of gunsmith service.

 

[dan 534]

Re: Barnard Sm ACTION or AI AE MK2

I had the same dilemma a few months ago, custom build or AE. The Barnards are good actions apparently (never owned one but I researched them and asked people who build on them) but the mag system is the weak spot apparently. I went for a AE Mk3 that's just been released. You'll have no problems with match ammo or hand loads in an AE, I'm on my second one, I'd own one over custom any day. Another thing to consider over here in the UK at least is the fact they seem to hold there second hand value well, a lot better than a custom. Also if you invest in the barrel change kit you can change out your own barrels, thats what I'm doing from now on.

 

[Graham]

Re: Barnard Sm ACTION or AI AE MK2

The Barnard is a good action, but they do not have a lot of experience manufacturing repeaters. The third lug doesn't ride out of the way and can interfere with magazine feeding.

 

[zipollini]

Re: Barnard Sm ACTION or AI AE MK2

If you have the option - go with the Barnard 07 -

http://www.barnard.co.nz/barnard-07-rifle.htm

 

[AIAWinAU]

Re: Barnard Sm ACTION or AI AE MK2

Hi GYT,

I have a Barnard actioned F class rifle, & I also have an AE & an AW.

Barnard - nice action, well made, bit fiddly & has some likes & dislikes when it comes to bedding, bedding blocks, & stocks. Also, the firing pin spring adjuster on the rear of the bolt has an occasional habit of causing light primer strikes from time to time unless you keep it adjusted. A friend has a Barnard repeater action, & it is nice but the use of HS Precision magazines makes it a pain in my view. I am sure you can modify something else to fit if you threw enought time & money at the problem. Mine will do 0.5 MOA over a 10 round group prone from bipod with rear bag, which is all I am capable of on a good day.

AE - it works perfectly first time every time. I wore the factory barrel out using a hot load of Varget & getting close to 3000 fps with 155 Palma bullets. It would group under 0.5 MOA for a 10 round group off bipod & rear bag. After 4 odd thousand rounds ( & only cleaned about 5 times in that lifespan ) the groups started to open up so I put a new barrel & we are back to under half moa again. I shoot mine in F class & it has been good enough to win the local club championships for the last 3 years. Great action, great trigger, stock fits me, & it is a turn key solution out of the box.

AW - I save mine for the occasional practical matches we have here & it again is a rifle you just pick up, put the right dope on from the last time it was used, & you are back in the centre of the target again. No muss, no fuss.

The worst vice is advice, but mine is this. If you want a rifle that will shoot well, does not need to be continually attended to or tweaked by a long range palma type gunsmith, & you can also use for hunting or just about anything else then get the AE. If you want to put a longer or heavier barrel on at a later stage then you can, & with the right tools you can do it yourself. AI's of any type just work. Plus - the mags feed very nicely indeed.

Cheers.

 

[Graham]

Re: Barnard Sm ACTION or AI AE MK2

1) With factory match ammo my AE shoots as well as any custom rifle. In my experience the AEs I have shot are as accurate as the AWs that I have shot.

2) Accuracy is a function of the rifle, the ammo, and the shooter. Consistent 1/2 MOA is a big ask of any system. At 100 meters 1/2 MOA with an AE should not be difficult to achieve with factory match ammo. But 1/2 MOA at 300 meters using IMI factory may not be realistic, not because of the rifle but because it will depend more on how good the ammo is and how good you are.

3) Stay away from HS mags. period.

4) If you don't have access to a gunsmith don't get a custom build - especially not from a gunsmith that is far away. What would happen if you get the custom rifle, but then have to send it back for modification? Get a barrel change kit and change your own barrels on the AE. Problem solved.

5) Shana Tova.

 

[gyt]

Re: Barnard Sm ACTION or AI AE MK2

Thank you all.
Sorry i did not edit my profile. Well i edited it just now.
I am from Israel, and we have small shooting club here.
Having a gun here is very difficult to get. Having a rifle - mission imposible, almost. Nevertheless we love to shoot and compete, and we do not give up- making a lot of efforts and spending a lot of money to keep shooting. We do not have private gunsmith here like in UK. Nor cevilian shooting ranges for long range shooting. As to your answers, Well i am starting to get the picture. I will go for the AE and hope i will get the export permit from UK.What is the difference between AE MK2 abd AE MK3? ( i know about the 3 trigger stages)Is the barrel the same 24" or i can buy them with original AI (26") longer barrel? Thank you again .
GYT

 

[dan 534]

Re: Barnard Sm ACTION or AI AE MK2

Mk2 and Mk3 share the trigger, action, magazine system, barrel. The bolt is now identical to the AW (3 position safety), I'm not sure if you can order a 26 inch barrel on the AE, I wouldn't bother the standard 24 or 20 are enough.

 

[gyt]

Re: Barnard Sm ACTION or AI AE MK2

Is it realistic to shoot 600 meters accuratly with 20" barrel?
I forgot to wish you all "SHANA TOVA" (happy ney hebrew year)
GYT

 

[Stubb]

Re: Barnard Sm ACTION or AI AE MK2

This video inevitably gets referenced when talking about shooting long range with relatively short barrels: link.

A 20" barrel will loose perhaps 100–150 fps compared to a 24" one. Try running the numbers on wind drift and drop for both to see the predicted difference. It's smaller than you'd think.

—Andreas

 

[gyt]

Re: Barnard Sm ACTION or AI AE MK2

Quite impressive!


GYT

 

[LoneWolfUSMC]

Re: Barnard Sm ACTION or AI AE MK2

My current match rifle has a 20" barrel. It launches 178gr AMAX at 2700fps just fine.

If you get the AE, you will not be sorry.

 

[Bill Larson]

Re: Barnard Sm ACTION or AI AE MK2

I`ve competed against Mik,in the USA...Lodi,Wi.Week long shoot...Mid-West Palma...After spending a week talking.... you can pretty well judge a man....
I say Mik is a stand-up guy... and I would trust his actions and word.
Bill Larson