Barrel block…worth it?

[brianf]

As usual my mind has nothing to do and I start researching…down the rabbit while I go.

The big BR rail guns use them, but they dont need a stock.

Some not many shooters in F class use them. But they are more popular overseas, both sides.

Some guys in BR use them

Some guys say they are there to take stress off the tenon threads/action stress.

Some guys say blocks “shorten” the barrel length making it stiffer and easier/more forgiving to load for.

Some guys bed the first inch plus of barrel in a stock which almost acts like a barrel block.

Can anyone point me to some actual testing etc?

 

[Mike Casselton]

Darrell Holland used to (maybe still does) make a lot of varmint rifles that used a barrel block.
The action was free floated and the block was a single screw setup.

Might be worth contacting him and picking his brain.

Alex Wheeler could also give you his opinion on them. He builds a lot of winning rifles

 

[spamassassin]

That's sort of how Desert Tech SRS/HTI work and probably (I can't say for certain but evidence is compelling) it is one of the reasons that DT's are so damned accurate. The synthetic shortening of the barrel is true inasmuch as a barrel block or anything that lessens the length of dangling barrel will shorten the length of barrel that's going to be involved in the kind of movement that we all refer to as barrel harmonics.

 

[Huskydriver]

I have nothing to add other than that they are ugly AF.... That is all lol

 

[ForgeValley]

You've probably seen this thread, some additional info there.

Big bore ELR rifle barrel block

Hello shooters. I've typically only seen barrel blocks on benchrest guns. I'm late but now I've seen it on a .416 e.l.r. rifle. I would like to know your opinion on this. As an example is barrel block required if you want a 2" diameter 38" length Bull Barrel?

www.snipershide.com

 

[brianf]

I have nothing to add other than that they are ugly AF.... That is all lol

I’ve actually seen 1-2 chassis that are designed around s barrel block design.

They masked it really well

 

[brianf]

You've probably seen this thread, some additional info there.

Big bore ELR rifle barrel block

Hello shooters. I've typically only seen barrel blocks on benchrest guns. I'm late but now I've seen it on a .416 e.l.r. rifle. I would like to know your opinion on this. As an example is barrel block required if you want a 2" diameter 38" length Bull Barrel?

www.snipershide.com

Yeah , it kind of died out right when guys started asking for proof…like most threads do lol

 

[ForgeValley]

Yeah , it kind of died out right when guys started asking for proof…like most threads do lol

Yeah I inherited a 416 barrel that has to weigh 30 lbs with brake, and even on a 2" action it didn't seem quite reasonable, so that's when I started looking for info myself.

 

[badassgunworks]

Daryl Hollins v-block is completely different than a barrel block the Holland V block has a bolt that runs through it into the barrel and it induces stress he does not use any bolts in the action just the one in the v-block it was a failure for the most part and he is gone away from it. The barrel blocks used in your big rifles are nothing more than a perch there is no stress or pressure on the barrel they do not have much of a value and they do not take stress off of the barrel Tenon what a barrel is torqued to 90 ft lb like most of your big builds are the weight of a barrel does not change the 90 ft lb stress of the barrel shoulder to threads remember that proper bedding is to be 100% stress-free if a block has impedance then that is stress. I have personally converted 13 V blocks back to standard bedding for a specific law enforcement agency and every single one of them shot better without the v-block using the same Barrel

 

[brianf]

Daryl Hollins v-block is completely different than a barrel block the Holland V block has a bolt that runs through it into the barrel and it induces stress he does not use any bolts in the action just the one in the v-block it was a failure for the most part and he is gone away from it. The barrel blocks used in your big rifles are nothing more than a perch there is no stress or pressure on the barrel they do not have much of a value and they do not take stress off of the barrel Tenon what a barrel is torqued to 90 ft lb like most of your big builds are the weight of a barrel does not change the 90 ft lb stress of the barrel shoulder to threads remember that proper bedding is to be 100% stress-free if a block has impedance then that is stress. I have personally converted 13 V blocks back to standard bedding for a specific law enforcement agency and every single one of them shot better without the v-block using the same Barrel

So even the conversion to a “regular” v block was inferior to a chassis or a bedded stock?

Question, on the other thread suggested above and here you state that there is limited “squeeze” on the barrel from the block. But in a rail gun there is no recoil lug to speak of…there must be grip on the barrel?

Or is it because the barrel is glued in and the screws only hold the “mold” together on those?

 

[timintx]

I agree with the above post .The trouble to do it is just not worth it ,and in the end it is just creating more variables that can can screw you verses free floating the barrel with conventional bedding. They can work depending on how the barrel is mounted and the scope mount as well to the block or the action as there are a few ways to do it . Full contact is the most beneficial. What has worked in bench rest was on aluminum blocks, thin bushings are made to hold the barrel centered and it has to be glued in to the block in a permanent fashion and for that reason the scope was mounted on the block and not the action. I did not want that so a good friend and mentor Barney Lawton advised me to use brass for a barrel block. With a perfect fit I could take it out of the block and reinstall it with minimal change of tune providing I torqued the clamping bolts to the exact torque as was before, and you can vary those torque figures and tune the gun as well. Switching barrels can be a pain either way you go as well. Just my experiences .

 

[brianf]

Thanks..

What was the reasoning for mounting the scope in the block compared to the action?

 

[coldboreAU]

@badassgunworks
What's your opinion about Gary Eliseo's barrel block he uses in his F1 Chassi's?

 

[badassgunworks]

@badassgunworks
What's your opinion about Gary Eliseo's barrel block he uses in his F1 Chassi's?

Have no use for any barrel block of any type v block for action yes block for barrel no.

 

[badassgunworks]

Thanks..

What was the reasoning for mounting the scope in the block compared to the action?

If the action is suspended and not mounted bolted to a stock you dont want the scope attached to it creating vibration

 

[brianf]

So it’s;

reducing residual/secondary vibration particularly from behind the block?

More so than the scope being damaged over time etc.

 

[badassgunworks]

So it’s;

reducing residual/secondary vibration particularly from behind the block?

More so than the scope being damaged over time etc.

Perhaps but the big issue is you will see the vibration in the plex when firing the rifle

 

[timintx]

I might add sometimes there is scope drift that has been reported by some shooters when the scope is mounted to the action , due to heating of the rifle. it is less likely when mounted to the block . I have not seen this on my heavy gun which has the scope mounted to the action . The main reason I did that was to remove the barrel easily without having to re level the scope.

 

[brianf]

Makes sense…higher and less barrel to look over in general.

Anyone know of testing done with the same action /batrel…barrel block and bedded?

Prob not but that would a win.

 

[DangerRanger]

Darrell Holland used to (maybe still does) make a lot of varmint rifles that used a barrel block.
The action was free floated and the block was a single screw setup.

Might be worth contacting him and picking his brain.

Alex Wheeler could also give you his opinion on them. He builds a lot of winning rifles

I can’t think of a single wheeler build I’ve ever seen with a block, and the man is listed all over the lr Br record books at this point.

He built an all out 2k yard Br gun recently with a 36” 1.45” and …. Free floated glued and screwed like all the rest

He is worth a call, lots of knowledge in shooting small.

 

[Mike Casselton]

I can’t think of a single wheeler build I’ve ever seen with a block, and the man is listed all over the lr Br record books at this point.

He built an all out 2k yard Br gun recently with a 36” 1.45” and …. Free floated glued and screwed like all the rest

He is worth a call, lots of knowledge in shooting small.

That's why I mentioned him.
Other than BR rail guns, barrel blocks seem to be a solution looking for a problem.

 

[Mike Casselton]

BTW, @brianf if you try as late as next week to get in touch with him, he'll be in the middle of a move.
He's leaving MT and headed back to FL due to his aging parents.
He'll open up shop again down here.

 

[brianf]

BTW, @brianf if you try as late as next week to get in touch with him, he'll be in the middle of a move.
He's leaving MT and headed back to FL due to his aging parents.
He'll open up shop again down here.

great thanks for the info.

i hate not "knowing" core information about topics

in my brain there is no way its not "better", but as always the devil is in the details

im wondering if they arent the preferred for bench rest accuracy .1"s

if they are actually better or more consistent for a .3" accuracy requirment

"....just because the design doesnt work on the space shuttle doesnt mean its not a better design for an airplane..."

or its all snake oil lol

 

[badassgunworks]

great thanks for the info.

i hate not "knowing" core information about topics

in my brain there is no way its not "better", but as always the devil is in the details

im wondering if they arent the preferred for bench rest accuracy .1"s

if they are actually better or more consistent for a .3" accuracy requirment

"....just because the design doesnt work on the space shuttle doesnt mean its not a better design for an airplane..."

or its all snake oil lol

This post has gone over basically three different designs of blocks. Please note that they are extremely different in the way that they function and are utilized. The v-block is a block that mounts from the action forward approximately 5 inches. The Recoil lug with a Savage nut is put out in front of the V block. The v-block is bedded into a standard stock there is a bolt that goes through the bottom of the stock through the center of the v-block and is screwed into the barrel this is a very poor design as it introduces stress to the center of the barrel. Then we have spoken of basically railgun Barrel clamping block and then third a barrel rest block which is no more than a block that allows the barrel that is extra long a place to rest. The idea is to remove the stress of a very long heavy barrel. Please note that the barrel is not clamped tightly in this design they all three have their pros and cons the biggest problem is getting everything perfect and everything straight stress-free and keeping the bore centered and concentric with the ID.

 

[brianf]

This post has gone over basically three different designs of blocks. Please note that they are extremely different in the way that they function and are utilized. The v-block is a block that mounts from the action forward approximately 5 inches. The Recoil lug with a Savage nut is put out in front of the V block. The v-block is bedded into a standard stock there is a bolt that goes through the bottom of the stock through the center of the v-block and is screwed into the barrel this is a very poor design as it introduces stress to the center of the barrel. Then we have spoken of basically railgun Barrel clamping block and then third a barrel rest block which is no more than a block that allows the barrel that is extra long a place to rest. The idea is to remove the stress of a very long heavy barrel. Please note that the barrel is not clamped tightly in this design they all three have their pros and cons the biggest problem is getting everything perfect and everything straight stress-free and keeping the bore centered and concentric with the ID.

yes, it seems that several opinions or styles of blocs were in the mix..is this what most people agree on

v-block:
recoil lug is realistically just moved forward 6"
is the action "touching" the stock or is it flee floating
this design actually has a screw touching the barrel??...if so, not the best idea lol

barrel rest block:
so this isnt really a clamping block but a shelf of sorts...or does it have a top half that contacts the barrel?

railgun:
this is what i personally consider a barrel block, right or wrong.
large clamp on barrel with action hanging free
ive see several rail gun styles and some are glued in and some are pressure fit/metal to metal contact
if im not mistaken, the trail gun style does not use a recoil lug infront of the block

100% as can be imagined the need for barrel and block concentricity and mini-max specs is paramount

 

[badassgunworks]

yes, it seems that several opinions or styles of blocs were in the mix..is this what most people agree on

v-block:
recoil lug is realistically just moved forward 6"
is the action "touching" the stock or is it flee floating
this design actually has a screw touching the barrel??...if so, not the best idea lol

barrel rest block:
so this isnt really a clamping block but a shelf of sorts...or does it have a top half that contacts the barrel?

railgun:
this is what i personally consider a barrel block, right or wrong.
large clamp on barrel with action hanging free
ive see several rail gun styles and some are glued in and some are pressure fit/metal to metal contact
if im not mistaken, the trail gun style does not use a recoil lug infront of the block

100% as can be imagined the need for barrel and block concentricity and mini-max specs is paramount

Yes the v-block is 6 in Long it is bedded into the stock the shank portion of the barrel goes from the action to the end of the block the barrel is threaded just like a Savage the lug and nut is put on so that the lug is at the front of the block a1/4 28 Bolt goes through the center of the V and screws into the barrel the action is free floating and so is the barrel. Rail gun type is critical that you have a perfect barrel perfectly straight . No bore run out id and od perfect. most rail guns use a straight large diamiter barrels with no taper no recoil lug block is lapped fitted to barrel . The block shelf for long barrels is basicly touching the barrel 360 deg. Action is also bedded 2 point pullers primary reason for this is stress on pillers alone long heavy barrels are tough on bedding and pillers from barrel weight.

 

[Ledzep]

The accuracy testing I've done is from a 6" V-block that's mounted on a precision rail setup that is bolted to a concrete pillar. In several instances, I've taken the same ammo and the same barreled action that was in the V-block, and bolted it into my Xylo or MDT Chassis and shot it from the shoulder (bag(s) and/or bipod) to see how loads correlate. Basically to see 1) How much error I put into the system vs. the machine rest, and 2) if there's a difference in load response with and without the barrel being clamped in front of the receiver.

In general, I add about .1 MOA to the total dispersion and I think that can mostly be attributed to aiming error, and a little bit to variability in recoil impulse. As far as the second point, with a 1.20-1.25" diameter 24-28" steel barrel I haven't seen any real trends in regard to "the V-block shortens and stiffens the barrel". Admittedly I haven't done a very exhaustive study here, but in the few times that I've done it, the results from the shoulder pretty well mirror those from the V-block, just a little bit worse because I suck more than a machine rest.

Something I'd like to do, but haven't got around to yet, is to take a 28" barrel and try a sample lot of ammo every 2" along the length for where I clamp the barrel and see if it does anything fun.