So I’ve been looking into making my own barrels for consistency with the Mosins I work on. Right now look at going with ECM for the rifling over cutting or hammer forged, but I don’t know much about deep hole drilling, what are setups you folks use for boring out barrel blanks?
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Gunsmithing Barrel drilling
- Thread starter Pede D
- Start date
ECM doesn't work for drilling the initial hole. EDM does though. Both, as I understand it, are expensive as shit. Not worth the cost if doing barrels for Mosins.
That said, if you are wanting to do $5-$10K custom accuracy rifles, the cost would be worth it.
Which Bat?
I'm not even going to bother with the popcorn on this one!
There's no way you are going to manufacture barrels cheaper than you can buy starting out.
Do you have a heavy machining background?
Why not buy blanks and modify them?
Fyi there enough videos and articles on the subject.
There's no way you are going to manufacture barrels cheaper than you can buy starting out.
Do you have a heavy machining background?
Why not buy blanks and modify them?
Fyi there enough videos and articles on the subject.
Hi,
OK so clearly you are not in the USA but I am very interested in ECM for barrels.
I have been in communication since January with an ECM equipment manufacturer out of Germany that has converted their machines to do ECM rifling but the machines are crazy expensive.
Do you have a local company that is offering ECM rifling?
I will definitely visit them with check in hand.
Sincerely,
Theis
OK so clearly you are not in the USA but I am very interested in ECM for barrels.
I have been in communication since January with an ECM equipment manufacturer out of Germany that has converted their machines to do ECM rifling but the machines are crazy expensive.
Do you have a local company that is offering ECM rifling?
I will definitely visit them with check in hand.
Sincerely,
Theis
I was actually under the impression ECM was faster and cheaper, DCo 2/75
Actually I came across ECM as an alternative via those 3D printing guys, their whole setup is under $400 (only sized for pistol barrels however) and produces satisfactory results considering the cost of the equipment.
Hi,
LOLOLOL O ok...forget I posted in this thread.
I didn't realize we were talking the kitchen sink and battery method; I thought we were discussing the next advancement in barrel rifling technology due to ability to ECM rifling in ridiculously hard alloys.
Sincerely,
Theis
LOLOLOL O ok...forget I posted in this thread.
I didn't realize we were talking the kitchen sink and battery method; I thought we were discussing the next advancement in barrel rifling technology due to ability to ECM rifling in ridiculously hard alloys.
Sincerely,
Theis
For .311 bore diameter I actually can’t find a reliable source to purchase, I have a little work with heavy machining, but not much. I have yet to buy my own machinery.
So my chief problem is finding 26” blanks in a .311 bore diameter, which is the actually diameter of 7.62x54r. I thought about converting to a different barrel diameter, but it means the rifles I work on would probably not be safe (or at a minimum very inaccurate) with standard 7.62x54r.
Yeah I’d love to be making those, but the whole concept is revamping 100 year old rifles into consistent 1 moa or better rifles with minimal cost.
Hi,
Why is your avatar picture the 75th Ranger Regiment Flash?
What year(s) were you with them?
Sincerely,
Theis
Why is your avatar picture the 75th Ranger Regiment Flash?
What year(s) were you with them?
Sincerely,
Theis
I buy them all the time from McGowen.
But really, for re-barelling a Mosin-Nagant (assuming you handload, as there's no decent factory ammo) use a .308 barrel.
Most die sets come with .308 as well as .311 expander balls, and the selection of .308 bullets means you can use something other than the 174 SMK for target.
Built many that shoot 1/2 minute when the other components of an accurate rifle system are in place. The floating bolthead design was nearly 70 years ahead of Savage...
Ugh I haven’t been sleeping enough, .311 is the bullet diameter, bore is .300, grooves at .314. It just occurred to me I started this entire thread because I mis-read my numbers.
B 1/75! RLTW
I couldn't say which is faster or cheaper. I went to machining school to get out of aviation. That didn't work out (fast enough), so to pay bills I kept on with aviation.
I do know the price you quoted might have at least a few more zero's behind it for a good set-up. From what I've seen. We had an EDM machine there in MSP, but no budget to use it. We did go through all the cnc stuff after the manual machining. That's MCTC.
Sua Sponte,
Theis was right on the money, going for the “kitchen sink” method, 3D printed mandrel and copper, it’s not going to produce super high quality barrels, but one of the chief problems with Mosin accuracy is the variance in the barrels, something I’m hoping to eliminate.
Man it must’ve been nice being a beach boy lol, I did my 4th of July break between surt and ranger school in savanah, you boys had it nice out there.
RLTW
Man it must’ve been nice being a beach boy lol, I did my 4th of July break between surt and ranger school in savanah, you boys had it nice out there.
RLTW
I would highly recommend you do as described above. If you tried to go with a .314" bore, you would have to find .314" bullets. There are a number of correct diameter barrels made with bullets to match that can be machined to fit a Mosin action.
Good and bad to both places I'm sure. Heat & humidity ain't as fun as it sounds. Neither is cold rain. I did enjoy Yak, though. Do you remember a little mountain training camp up out of Greenwater? We were there in July and August, height of the fresh fruit season. Man that was good!
Yeah looks like I’ll be able to just pick up some blanks and go from there, now I’ve just got to manage to throw together a decent load. It’s too bad Hornady doesn’t make an ELD-X for .311.
Yeah man, the mountains are great in the summer, I tried to get some guys together to do Rainer off duty, but the married dudes just wanted to stay home and the single guys just wanted to get smashed. We did our mountain stuff out East closer to Yak so we could combine it with other training like Goose ranges etc. Always had to be in winter though, nothing like trying to light a cigarette in below freezing temperatures on top of a mountain.
Too damn hot, or too damn cold! LOL. Being from Nevada though, I'd sure as hell take the view you had, to being stuffed down in trees and swamp, where visibility couldn't hold a candle to out there. Everybody always thinks the other guy has it the best, ha ha. I watched a video on RASP (what used to be RIP) and I'm thinkin' damn that's hard now! Same with Scuba School, these kids nowadays are badass to make it through even the assessment phases.
Good luck with all this. If you don't believe it can be accurate, google SV-98. RLTW.
Military barrels (Russian/Soviet) were .300/.311. Finns had some that were .300/.308, but not common.
There were never any .314 groove dia. barrels.
If you're trying to be "period correct", use the McGowen barrels (forget about the "prefits"- often problems with thread pitch dia with them).
They can do an original profile as well if that's what ya want.
You'd never want to shoot .311 bullets down a .314 bore groove barrel. No gas seal, poor accuracy. Probably couldn't hit the proverbial broad side of the barn.
Go with .311 groove and .311 bullets, or .308/.308.
With a drilled blank, I think it could be incredible.
Sorry, forgot to repeat, COST of a quality set-up.
That’s what I’ve read, but some of these Mosins read all over the place and I can’t tell if they’re just re-barreled with strange barrels, or maybe Chinese barrels in Finnish receivers or just damaged. These owners don’t seem to really know much about point of origin for their rifles and I am by no means an expert when it comes to identifying Mosins.
In any case, period correct works best because they’ll be able to handle everything from corrosive surplus, to Cold War 7N13 to hand loads I churn out. McGowen is great when it comes to after market barrels, but at 300+ per barrel, a little pricey considering both labor on my part and the cost of other parts for a precision mosin build. I was hoping to be able to get some blanks for less than half that, rifle and profile myself to save costs.
With a drilled blank, I think it could be incredible.
Sorry, forgot to repeat, COST of a quality set-up.
Yeah guys who want to renovate their Mosins generally don’t want to spend an arm and a leg on them, especially since quality .308 bolt guns aren’t very expensive and Mosins have come up in price in recent years.
Hi,
Can you elaborate on what the point of making these "precision mosins" and what cost do you intend to have in the finished rifle?
Sincerely,
Theis
Can you elaborate on what the point of making these "precision mosins" and what cost do you intend to have in the finished rifle?
Sincerely,
Theis
SV-98 quality is the goal, but Mosins are a long way off; the issue stock is below average, most guys don’t have access to quality rounds, and between the carbines and productions in other countries across several decades, getting uniform barrels for consistency is a massive pain. I’m just trying to get most of the way there in an affordable fashion.
Honestly this wasn’t even my idea, I’ve had quite a few friends come to me looking to make their Mosins (or stocks of Mosins) consistent at range, so I picked up one for $25 and have been pinpointing weaknesses and the cost associated with remedying them. Optics mounting and bent bolt handles are easy enough, but the issue stock has to go, archangel chassis is the easiest and most repeatable option, but I have a few wood stocks to be glass bedded which is a cheaper option. The next two problems are variance in the barrels and performance rounds.
For $200 I can set one in a glass bedded stock, archangel stocks run about 240ish last time I checked, $200 for optics mounting and bent bolt handles, and now I’m looking into barrels, but it’s already becoming pretty expensive.
Only a few years ago we bought 400 blanks from Lothar Walther USA that were 26" long, 1.625" diameter and .311 bore for use specifically with 7.62X54R. The blanks were chrome moly machinegun grade meaning they would handle the heat and wear of use in a machinegun. One of them ended up in a target rifle and with handloaded ammo it shot sub one inch groups consistently. So I would say there are excellent quality blanks available. Lothar Walther is still around, you can look them up on google. Can't recall the name of the sales man we dealt with but I don't think he's there anymore anyway. Good luck with your projects.
In case you're wondering what we did with all those barrels, we made Vz59 semi auto barrels out of them for the semi auto Vz59s we built. There were about 350 rifles done and some spare barrels. Look up MarColar firearms Vz59 and you'll see where they went. Some of the guys shooting the belt feds were reporting outstanding accuracy and shooting them in competitions. Good blanks, good barrels.
Frank
As mentioned, not so much anymore- I might build one every month or two. Price has gone up with all milsurps, and that $50 rifle is now six or seven times that. $50 is pretty cheap for any bolt/receiver...even when you trash the rest.
Surely, you have customers that want something "different", just because they can?
What did you pay per blank if you don’t mind me asking? Trying to make it a cheaper option than the McGowen aftermarket barrels.
More like preppers with mosin stashes who want their rifles to be more practical than vintage.
I like your reply, but it always amazes me how preppers will go for a rifle/round, that both are drying up. Maybe their real goal is to sell them as "collectibles".
I saw that a lot living in N. Idaho and working as a FedEx Ground delivery guy in NE Washington.
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I don't have an answer for you. Tech details are my gig, money stuff is the big guy. I'm sure the 500 piece quantity we bought got the price down a bit so depending on how many you want the cost will vary. It was also 5 years ago and prices have likely changed. Best bet is to contact them. I know they still offer the .311 bore rifled blanks so that is at least a start.
Frank
