Barrel for a short DMR

[Fabioconda20]

Hi guys, this is my first post ever here in this forum.
I'm from Italy and AR15 are a topic with very few experts talking my language, so I sincerly wanna ask you.
I'm using a 12,5" .223 of an italian manufacturer with "his" Lothar Walther 1:8 and a 1-6 lpvo (PST 2 vortex) to play with steel plates at ~400m and sometimes even beyond.
This stuff is really fun and I enjoy learning all the things about ballistics, so I wanna go for a more performing setup without having it fully dedicated to this anyway.
I'm thinking to swap optic (going for a 2-10 pst2 vortex) and barrel:
Here in Italy we kinda have to marry ourself to a barrel 'cause it has to be registered regardless the lenght, so playing with customer service if something goes wrong can be a pain in the butt.
I wanna go with a 14,5 - 16" 1:8 match with a profile not too heavy, to gain a little more speed and I hope accuracy without losing too much portability;
I have access to
- 14,5 1:8 MRR (multi radial rifleing) sabatti blank and finished by an italian artisan (with sbn)
- 16 1:8 Wilson combat recon SS 1:8 fluted
- 14.5 faxon gunner match ss 1:8
- 16 BA Hanson Match ss 1:8
- Another Lothar Walther 1:8 sbn finished by the manufacturer of my current AR15.
- Buy an entire new ar15: Ruger MPR 1:8 16 spr profile.

I will use FIOCCHI 62 for 90% of the times, and 69smk loaded by me for the rest 10%.
Right now my AR15 print 2moa with 62fiocchi and 1.5moa with 69smk (note I'm using only a 6x lpvo at the moment), Always 10shot groups.
- I wish my future setup will be able to make 1moa or sub with 69smk and 1.5moa with 62fiocchi.

I have seen with my eyes MRRs printing 1 to 1.5moa with 62fiocchi, but it seems they dont like 69 and 77, producing 1.5moa also (1:8).
I have also seen a lot of MRR having quality control issues.

I know faxon and BA have also quality control by "volume of fire" and I dont know if I want to take the risk of a non-shooter and dealing with their customer service in another continent. But i've seen a YT video of a guy doing 1moa with a faxon match (18" spr and not 14.5 gunner as listed)

I've seen with my eyes rugers mpr printing 1.5~ with 55 and 62 fiocchi, but I dont know if it's the best choice.

What do you suggest? Wilson Combat? They seems to have good quality control and track record.
I could get WOA but we import them only with a very VERY heavy spr profile and 1:7 twist. So I really hope Wilson combat recon could be as good.
Thanks

 

[eugevita]

hi there, good luck with your search! I would not recommend faxon, the only barrel of theirs I owned would shoot 2.5MOA

 

[Fabioconda20]

hi there, good luck with your search! I would not recommend faxon, the only barrel of theirs I owned would shoot 2.5MOA

Even the match one? I ready that faxon and BA are kind hit or miss with a less than ideal statistic, but I was wandering if even the match/premium suffer the same probability.

 

[Jsp556]

I’ve had good luck with a 1-8 twist Lothar Walther 16”, 223 Wylde with polygonal rifling. No experience with Wilson Combat 223 wylde barrels but have used one of their barrels on a Grendel build with satisfactory results. I’ve had hit or miss results with Ballistic Advantage.

 

[gopherslayer]

I have a WC in 6.8 and used another one for my friend’s 6.8 and they are phenomenal. Recon fluted. If their .223 shoot as good you won’t be disappointed.

 

[BCP]

In your situation I'd go lothar walther.

 

[xanderzuk]

JP Enterprises

JP - Barrels

 

[Fabioconda20]

Yeah, It doesn't work like that in a country that Is not as free
I litterally can not order a barrel online, I have to buy from an importer what he has already imported, than he send the barrel to register his S/N in Italy, and than I have to phisically take it and register itself to the cops.

 

[aviumvenator]

If you are happy with the performance of your current Lothar Walther then that would be a good choice.

Since it sounds like you don’t have NFA concerns I would go for the 14.5” and add a suppressor.

 

[Fabioconda20]

If you are happy with the performance of your current Lothar Walther then that would be a good choice.

Since it sounds like you don’t have NFA concerns I would go for the 14.5” and add a suppressor.

You are right in the fact that we do not have NFA, but we have no constitutional rights about firearms and suppressors are illegal here. This could change in the near future as it's already happened to our neighbours of Slovenia.

We have a gun friendly administration right now, for example yesterday they passed .50bmg for civillian use (which is useless, but still..)

 

[xanderzuk]

Yeah, It doesn't work like that in a country that Is not as free
I litterally can not order a barrel online, I have to buy from an importer what he has already imported, than he send the barrel to register his S/N in Italy, and than I have to phisically take it and register itself to the cops.

Ah, in that case, Lothar Walther

 

[bfoosh006]

The Ballistic Advantage and Faxon barrels can literally be a crap shoot. Sometimes they can fine, but more often than not, they do not meet my expectations. So no dice on those.

Out of your list of barrels... Only the Lothar Walter would be the one I would choose. Especially considering the fussy laws.
Buy the best one you can afford.

If I may ask... how much do all the barrels cost in Italy ?

 

[Fabioconda20]

The Ballistic Advantage and Faxon barrels can literally be a crap shoot. Sometimes they can fine, but more often than not, they do not meet my expectations. So no dice on those.

Out of your list of barrels... Only the Lothar Walter would be the one I would choose. Especially considering the fussy laws.
Buy the best one you can afford.

If I may ask... how much do all the barrels cost in Italy ?

Lothars can go from 350€ the sbn non-premium, to 800€ the match one

Faxon match gunner is 480€ and BA premium hanson 400€

Wilson combat recon 16 550€ (but i'd get It at 500€)

Sabatti MRR 350€ from brownells Italy.

Imports from US increase the prices a lot

 

[TonyTheTiger]

With all the red tape involved I would absolutely not take a chance on a BA or Faxon. Of the barrels on your list I would lean hard towards the LW.

 

[eugevita]

With all the red tape involved I would absolutely not take a chance on a BA or Faxon. Of the barrels on your list I would lean hard towards the LW.

I agree with this!

 

[eugevita]

Even the match one? I ready that faxon and BA are kind hit or miss with a less than ideal statistic, but I was wandering if even the match/premium suffer the same probability.

I had a faxon gunner. Like others recommend skipping Faxon and BA and getting the best you can buy

 

[ScottsBad]

LW probably. More precision costs exponentially more dollars. There aren't any consistently accurate (from one batch to the next) budget or mid-priced barrel manufacturers.

With the red tape you are stuck. If you buy a Faxon or BA you may likely be disappointed and will have wasted your time and money.

I wasn't aware that Wilson makes barrels. They usually have third parties make their weapons components. I could be wrong.

Ruger does make their own hammer forged barrels. but I cannot say how good they are.

Try to get an accuracy guaranty if possible, especially when paying such a high price.

A few other points;

A good barrel will not make poor ammunition much better. Just like good ammunition will not make a poor barrel much better. You must have both to receive the best results. You probably know this.

2MOA for United States 62 grain Fiocchi is near it's best possible accuracy for that particular ammunition. Don't expect much more accuracy from the 62 grain. 77 grain SMK might yield better results than 69 grain depending on the barrel.

I get better accuracy with 77 grain than 69 grain out of most of my rifles, both 7:1 and 8:1 twist.

Fact: It costs a lot more money to make incremental improvements in accuracy when approaching sub-MOA. And it's a lot harder too

A 2-10X Vortex is not a powerful enough scope for 400+ meters. Look 4-16 or something. Make sure it has a parallax adjustment or you will be unhappy

I suggest a 16" barrel, but 14.5" would work. You'll have more barrel options in 16".

There are better USA made choices you haven't listed. Are you limited to the manufacturers you listed?

You never know with mid-priced barrels because years ago I bought a BCM 14.5" duty rifle upper with a hammer forged light weight profile barrel. It is THE MOST ACCURATE RIFLE I have. Sub-MOA all day with CBC generic 77 grain OTM Mk262 clone. But if I bought a second one, chances are it would not be as accurate. mid-priced barrels are inconsistent. I've noticed this several times.

I have a Faxon 16" flame fluted heavy match barrel that I bought a few years ago. I was never impressed by it and I don't shoot it much.

Good luck

 

[sparky702]

Ballistic advantage is a crap shoot . I bought 20 inch DMR profile barrel and I could get better groups throwing rock's . I sent it back and they exchanged it for another and I am shooting right at 1 moa with 77 grain matchkings . I won't take a chance on them again .

 

[Fabioconda20]

Hi, I agree with all you have said except for the 2-10x not being enough for a 400m shot. I think it depends a lot on what target size someone want to shoot: I honestly can hit already with my 1-6x an 8" steel plate at 400m (.5mrad target) from bench or prone, and a 24" plate at 600m (1mrad target). Bipod, no rear bag.
So the 2-10x sure will do the same job imho.
At the end I'm going with a 14.5 1:8 MRR Sabatti, not because it's the best but because I should have less of a nightmare with warranty being Italian made.
And yes, 2 moa it's what 62s fiocchi can do with most of the barrels, but I've seen TWO 18" MRRs grouping 1.2-1.5moa with 10shot groups of these same ammo.
An moa or less it's only achievable with match ammo, I totally get it, and would be foolish thinking otherwise considering all the money every other guy spend in match ammo to print sub-moa.
But those plates dont deserve 1,50€ per round, so I need the best performer I can get with the ammo I'll realistically shoot.

I CANT WAIT TO REPORT TO YOU GUYS HOW THIS SABATTI WILL SHOOT.
Thanks for all the answers!

 

[Entreri]

It seems you already made your choice. I wanted to make a recommendation for you anyway. I have owned/shot a number of different European made ARs as well as some of the limited number that are more or less easily available over here.
By pure coincidence i stumbled upon a 16" 1:8 twist 223 wylde chambered Savage MSR15 Recon while looking for something else in the gun shop. I didn't even know Savage makes ARs.
For the price (1300€, which is very cheap for a decent AR in Europe. A basic German AR goes from 1700-2000, something like a basic DD starts at 2200 upwards) i decided to try it out.
It is the most accurate AR i've owned so far. With good 69 gr match ammo it regularly shoots MOA or less for 5-10 shot groups at 100m. I haven't measured groups with 55/62 gr FMJ but it shoots those very well also.
As for reliability, i'm only about 1200 rounds in, but so far no issues at all.
It came with a really nice 2 Stage trigger from the factory too.
I was very pleasently surprised what i got for the price.

 

[Fabioconda20]

It seems you already made your choice. I wanted to make a recommendation for you anyway. I have owned/shot a number of different European made ARs as well as some of the limited number that are more or less easily available over here.
By pure coincidence i stumbled upon a 16" 1:8 twist 223 wylde chambered Savage MSR15 Recon while looking for something else in the gun shop. I didn't even know Savage makes ARs.
For the price (1300€, which is very cheap for a decent AR in Europe. A basic German AR goes from 1700-2000, something like a basic DD starts at 2200 upwards) i decided to try it out.
It is the most accurate AR i've owned so far. With good 69 gr match ammo it regularly shoots MOA or less for 5-10 shot groups at 100m. I haven't measured groups with 55/62 gr FMJ but it shoots those very well also.
As for reliability, i'm only about 1200 rounds in, but so far no issues at all.
It came with a really nice 2 Stage trigger from the factory too.
I was very pleasently surprised what i got for the price.

Thanks mate, I will look at them in the future. I didn't know Savage made ARs too

 

[hlee]

Thanks mate, I will look at them in the future. I didn't know Savage made ARs too

Savage catches a lot of hate for; being cheap, rough finish, poor cycling, and indifferent extraction and ejection (mostly confined to their bolt actions). But, even the haters admit that Savage barrels shoot. Though, they may look like the bores were drilled by dull beavers.

 

[Biggy]

I chose the Criterion Core 13.9” chrome lined barrel barrel for my build. Mine has proven to be accurate and reliable and the properly gassed mid length gas barrel is very soft shooting. I thermal fit the barrel to a SOLGW’s Broadsword upper receiver and use their excellent M89 handguard.

 

[BCP]

I chose the Criterion Core 13.9” chrome lined barrel barrel for my build. Mine has proven to be accurate and reliable and the properly gassed mid length gas barrel is very soft shooting. I thermal fit the barrel to a SOLGW’s Broadsword upper receiver and use their excellent M89 handguard.

He's overseas so a criterion core probably has some wacky export dues that make it more expensive than a lothar walther. The company he chose (sabatti) makes nice barrels, awhile go sabbitti 308 rifles were imported here to the states and they seemed to shoot well.

 

[Fabioconda20]

Hi guys, I'd like to thank you again for all your inputs.
As I stated after all the suggestions, I decided to go with a 1:8 14'5" Sabatti multiradial rifling (MRR) barrel blank finished by an italian artisan (DR15 Custom).

One of my requirements was that it HAD to shoot 1.5moa with Fiocchi 62 fmj because of cost and availability of this ammo here in Italy.
I am at the 500 round mark, so I suppose we agree it's breaked in, and I'd like to share the results:

(Always prone at 100m, with 10x, bipod and rear bag... and me a mediocre shooter)

last training, first group after a zero check (which wasn't this pretty).

10 shot group (consistent with my average performance)