Barrel length to velocity/sd lead and copper solids

[Gleedus]

I didnt expect anything else justin! In ammo quality making the difference and how accurate a 22lr really is relating to long range we are in complete agreement.
Long barrel short barrel which is more accurate is a pointless argument.
But Tunability and velocity is of interest to me. Yes velocity spread is just a small part of the ammo equation and there are other factors that affect velocity besides barrel length.

 

[grauhanen]

Is there a relationship between the MV of these handloads and accuracy? That is to say, is the accuracy of these affected by MV?

 

[Geno C.]

The soft lead bullets will start wiping off in the fast twist I saw this at 1-7 in a .224 blank, build up.

Mine isn’t showing any more fouling than a normal twist barrel. Neither of them so far and I’ve been bore scoping them.

 

[Rimdenter]

The first sentence is false

Why would shooters choose different powders ? , bullet weights? or profiles? and barrel lengths then? It all depends on what your trying to achieve I use all 28.5" of my custom built 257 weatherby mag to reach max veloicty by burning slower larger doses of powder for a longer lenght , right up to the end of the barrel. Basically to be efficient you use everything to the end , shy of that your dragging down the bullet in excess your burning up the air.

 

[Geno C.]

How so ?

First, the word optimum. Second, if we are considering speed, it would be at the point then the barrels friction on the bullet can no longer be overcome by the pressure behind it. Finally, the gasses don’t completely expand until the bullet exits the barrel.

 

[Geno C.]

Why would shooters choose different powders ? , bullet weights? or profiles? and barrel lengths then? It all depends on what your trying to achieve I use all 28.5" of my custom built 257 weatherby mag to reach max veloicty by burning slower larger doses of powder for a longer lenght , right up to the end of the barrel. Basically to be efficient you use everything to the end , shy of that your dragging down the bullet in excess your burning up the air.

A 29” would be faster than the 28.5. And a 30 faster than that.

You’re getting way off topic though

 

[Rimdenter]

Your right no need to cut your barrels off then

 

[Geno C.]

There is in this case. At 27” it’s past the point of pressure overcoming friction. Your example isn’t

 

[lash]

I’d like to see this thread back on track, even if it is possible that I threw the switch. I think that it certainly won’t hurt to see this test through and I’d personally like to see the data and results.

Try to remember that Geno’s primary purpose for this is to get results with respect to the hand loaded (with powder) ELR solids he’s developing. All of everyone else’s experience with lead projectiles in .22 rimfire are likely not relevant to this.

 

[Geno C.]

The test will go forward no matter what. I might keep the lead results to myself or the SM since everyone already knows the results of factory ammo out of a 5.75 twist at all barrel lengths

 

[Gleedus]

Now now not so selfish!!

 

[Geno C.]

First inch removed. My already damaged magnetospeed stopped working so I had to wait for a friend to bring a replacement.

second inch gone. Have to run to the shop because I don’t have a bandsaw here. I don’t really care for using a parting tool.

 

[Gleedus]

First inch removed. My already damaged magnetospeed stopped working so I had to wait for a friend to bring a replacement.View attachment 7616836second inch gone. Have to run to the shop because I don’t have a bandsaw here. I don’t really care for using a parting tool.View attachment 7616837

Ford guy eh....

 

[Geno C.]

Indeed I am

 

[Rob01]

You are cleaning up the crown after cutting right?

 

[acudaowner]

just shot my first 10 solid coppers a cutting edge 133 gr bullet using 41.5 h 4350 I was shocked they were traveling 2852 out of my 26'' Bartlein 1/8 twist barrel compared to the hornady 140gr that with the same load only went 2731 so I should not bet that surprised . I had had problems with the gas ring cutting edge adds to there bullets , but after removing a alignment sleeve on the Frankford arsenal universal dies I was able to use a window to see exactly when to stop pressing and they worked pretty good not sure over the cost of normal lead ammo but in a pinch its a bullet . I guess it all depends on what is worth to you , while I am mostly happy over how they worked again it boils down to price to me .

 

[Geno C.]

You are cleaning up the crown after cutting right?

Really?

 

[Rob01]

Just checking.

 

[Geno C.]

Figured a chamfer bit would do it

 

[Rob01]

It should. Just making sure there were no burrs to mess up any of the data.

 

[Geno C.]

In the pic of the second inch I removed, you should have able to see it was recrowned

 

[Rob01]

Didn’t notice but sorry I asked. Didn’t know you would get so worked up over it.

 

[Geno C.]

I’m not worked up at all. Found it funny actually

 

[Rob01]

Glad I could bring some humor to your night by asking a pertinent question but sorry to offend you oh master of all. LOL

 

[Geno C.]

Humor is good for the soul

 

[Geno C.]

So if I just trim it with a bullet in there, do I still need to crown it?

 

[Badshot308]

So if I just trim it with a bullet in there, so I still need to crown it?View attachment 7617046

Nope, and if you leave it in, you might be able to post a video like Scott from Kentucky Ballistics!! This is humor of course...

 

[Geno C.]

Doubt there’s enough pressure in there to do more than blow a case. The rimX handles that pretty well too.

 

[Badshot308]

Doubt there’s enough pressure in there to do more than blow a case. The rimX handles that pretty well too.View attachment 7617052

You have to load the mythical .22 SLAP round...

 

[grauhanen]

You are cleaning up the crown after cutting right?

Is this what prompted the question?

Appearances can be deceiving, but perhaps the question was understandable.

 

[Geno C.]

Is this what prompted the question?

Appearances can be deceiving, but perhaps the question was understandable.

It’s full of cutting oil and filings. It’s pretty clear it’s not a straight cut

 

[grauhanen]

It’s full of cutting oil and filings. It’s pretty clear it’s not a straight cut

Indeed. I'm not taking a position but simply noting that appearances can be deceiving. Some might have expected the end facing up, the previously crowned end, to have appeared without filings or oil.

 

[Rob01]

Is this what prompted the question?

Appearances can be deceiving, but perhaps the question was understandable.

Not worth it. Just avert your eyes, bow to the all knowing and move on. Don’t ask any questions. LOL

 

[Geno C.]

Little sour Rob?

 

[Rob01]

Nah just a little morning humor.

 

[Geno C.]

Finally got a replacement bayonet for the magnetospeed so testing will continue

 

[Geno C.]

One inch at a time. Almost like a Johnny Cash song

 

[Geno C.]

 

[6.5SH]

Needs one of those little Tipton beltfeds

 

[357Max]

Have you considered sending one of those 1" drops to cutting edge and asking them to cut a batch of projectiles tuned to your bore size?

I know Warner tool offered this for the flat lines & I'd think the exact size match for solids to a RF bore would possibly be more critical then center fire stuff.

My thought is if there tight you may wind up around 17" for optimal velocity, however if projectile size was tuned or loosened a bit you may be able to push longer on barrel length? .0001-.0002 could make a pretty big difference on RF I would think.

 

[Geno C.]

Have you considered sending one of those 1" drops to cutting edge and asking them to cut a batch of projectiles tuned to your bore size?

I know Warner tool offered this for the flat lines & I'd think the exact size match for solids to a RF bore would possibly be more critical then center fire stuff.

My thought is if there tight you may wind up around 17" for optimal velocity, however if projectile size was tuned or loosened a bit you may be able to push longer on barrel length? .0001-.0002 could make a pretty big difference on RF I would think.

Lol, cutting edge stuff is not as consistent as this bullet. Have you ever seen their surface finish on their bullets?

 

[357Max]

Nope, I never bought any of their stuff.
Guess I falsely assumed that was what you were running.

The point I was trying to make still applies unless of coarse your 3 steps ahead (very likely) & have already played with tuning the pills to the bore size.

I'd be very interested to see the effect of a 1 - 3 Ten Thousands bullet diameter change on velocity.

Your definitely wading into a niche that has a lot of room for learning and innovation.

 

[Geno C.]

Nope, I never bought any of their stuff.
Guess I falsely assumed that was what you were running.

The point I was trying to make still applies unless of coarse your 3 steps ahead (very likely) & have already played with tuning the pills to the bore size.

I'd be very interested to see the effect of a 1 - 3 Ten Thousands bullet diameter change on velocity.

Your definitely wading into a niche that has a lot of room for learning and innovation.

My bullets are already cut to match my barrel. This test is actually being performed on a .219/.222” barrel. Thai was done to decrease engraving pressure to more closely match that of lead in a .217 barrel

 

[357Max]

Copy, makes sense. Are you turning your own bullets?

 

[Geno C.]

No. Badlands Precision is making the bullets

 

[Geno C.]

Still moving forward.

 

[JBoomhauer]

Still moving forward.View attachment 7631294

Such a tease!

 

[Geno C.]

What’s going to be the tease is if I don’t get this done before I hit the road on Monday and don’t see my house for the next 5 months.

 

[Gleedus]

I like charts.

 

[Geno C.]

Hers the raw data. The solids ammo wasn’t loaded to any node, simply to just under max pressure. Sadly I didn’t have enough of the Aguila brass to complete the test without switching but is what it is and I could start over lol. The major increase in speed of the solids load as length decreased vs what is seen with the lead ammo is interesting.
If someone want to chart it all, that would be cool. I’ll thread it at this length and continue to run it. I’ll find a spot where speed is stable with my load by working down from here and see where it leads me