Gunsmithing Barrel removal tool questions

[Namekagon]

I have a Rem 700 wearing a Criterion Remage barrel. Not the factory barrel, thats long gone. I need to purchase the tools necessary to remove/reinstall the barrel. The NSS recoil lug is NOT pinned or notched into action. Because I'm not dealing with the factory barrel, I was thinking the following tools:

Surgeon action wrench
NSS barrel nut wrench
PT&G Recoil Lug alignment tool

By my thinking, I shouldn't need a barrel vise yet. I can use a couple blocks of wood and a bench vise as a third hand to hold the barrel (not necessarily prevent it from rotation), but with the action wrench and nut wrench opposing each other, a barrel vise to me seems unnecessary.

My biggest concern is whether the tools above will work. Questions are:

1. I assume Surgeon action wrench works with Model 700. Is that true?

2. Does anyone know if the NSS recoil lug is compatible with any of the recoil lug alignment tools on the market, such as the PTG or Brownells version? The NSS lug is thicker than the factory lug, but I'm not sure about any other dimensions.

3. Does anyone see any flaws to my plan that I'm not seeing?

Thanks for any help you guys can give. Don't want to buy the wrong thing.

 

[Namekagon]

I should add, I was going to go with the NSS action wrench that aligns the recoil lug for you. Until I realized that I'd have to pull the pic rail off every time.

 

[LRI]

Fwiw...

When bedded, the "alignment" tools tend to fall short.

-Think about what is actually going on:

1. Barrel being torqued typically around 100lbsft.
2. Clearance between tool profile and lug.
3. Variances in lug outside shape (more applicable with oem lugs),
4. Clearance between front guard screw and receiver screw hole threads.
5. Clearance between slot in tool and the screw.
6. Natual deflection created by a 1/4" screw being asked to stand up to 100lbs of torque over an approximate 1" moment WHILE being caputured only by maybe 70% of its diameter. (think of the wall thickness of the action up front)

Now fit this into a stock that has a precision casting (bedding) following the exact contour of everything you stuck into it.

Add this all up. Maybe it's only a degree of variance. 1 degree on an oem M700 profile lug equates to just over .011" of an inch of centerline positional change. If we use the typical rule of wrapping a lug profile with tape, then it'll take around 4-5+ layers of tape to allow for this much deviation. That's figuring tape at around .003" thickness.

-Generally not a standard practice and were being very optimistic if we assume it's only 1 degree.

The point here is after doing this a whole lot, I've moved as far away from those damn things (alignment tools) as possible. I have made a half dozen of them specific to various lug profiles over the years. They tend to rot in a drawer now cause they are just painful to use. Last one I did was a good 45m of dickering around on a stupid muzzle thread for a walk in client who had his rifle built somewhere else. It's not a cut or jab towards anyone. It's just what you go through when making darn sure you don't bias the lug to one side and create a condition where the action is "kinked" in the stock due to the lug loading one side of the stock.


Spending the extra coin on a pinned lug and having the work done to the receiver, puts you miles ahead in short order. Multiply that times the number of times you plan on swapping barrels in a given season/lifespan you plan on shooting this thing. Doing this solves one problem and eliminates a whole laundry list from ever presenting themselves.

Food for thought...

C.

 

[Namekagon]

So you are saying that the tolerences built into the tool, action, screw holes, etc. required to make an alignment tool usable basically make it unreliable to use? I definitely hadn't thought of that, but it makes complete sense.

 

[Diver160651]

Fwiw...

When bedded, the "alignment" tools tend to fall short.

-Think about what is actually going on:

1. Barrel being torqued typically around 100lbsft.
2. Clearance between tool profile and lug.
3. Variances in lug outside shape (more applicable with oem lugs),
4. Clearance between front guard screw and receiver screw hole threads.
5. Clearance between slot in tool and the screw.
6. Natual deflection created by a 1/4" screw being asked to stand up to 100lbs of torque over an approximate 1" moment WHILE being caputured only by maybe 70% of its diameter. (think of the wall thickness of the action up front)

Now fit this into a stock that has a precision casting (bedding) following the exact contour of everything you stuck into it.

Add this all up. Maybe it's only a degree of variance. 1 degree on an oem M700 profile lug equates to just over .011" of an inch of centerline positional change. If we use the typical rule of wrapping a lug profile with tape, then it'll take around 4-5+ layers of tape to allow for this much deviation. That's figuring tape at around .003" thickness.

-Generally not a standard practice and were being very optimistic if we assume it's only 1 degree.

The point here is after doing this a whole lot, I've moved as far away from those damn things (alignment tools) as possible. I have made a half dozen of them specific to various lug profiles over the years. They tend to rot in a drawer now cause they are just painful to use. Last one I did was a good 45m of dickering around on a stupid muzzle thread for a walk in client who had his rifle built somewhere else. It's not a cut or jab towards anyone. It's just what you go through when making darn sure you don't bias the lug to one side and create a condition where the action is "kinked" in the stock due to the lug loading one side of the stock.


Spending the extra coin on a pinned lug and having the work done to the receiver, puts you miles ahead in short order. Multiply that times the number of times you plan on swapping barrels in a given season/lifespan you plan on shooting this thing. Doing this solves one problem and eliminates a whole laundry list from ever presenting themselves.

Food for thought...

C.

Chad,

You guys of been a few my rifle from 338 to 6.5 , all great work. Most of my actions have a recoil lug that is part of the action.

But what does one do if you have a tune up Remington sitting with a new barrel, non pinned lug with the action bedded?

Obviously we’ve sent actions back to guys like you and you’ve spun on good barrels.

Is the best step for you guns to unscrew and pin? If so will it also match? Or do we our shim the crap out off our alignment tool?

 

[idahoorion]

Namekragon,
you didn't say what your stock is or how it is bedded. some factory stocks have some of this slop built in so a lug close but not perfect will still drop in. Also some chassis do as well because they are sold and inletted to fit a bunch of different (700 clone actions). pinning is a great choice, some folks will notch the front of the action and use a lug that has a ball or notch to fit and this prevents rotation of the lug as well.

idahoorion

 

[LRI]

Chad,

You guys of been a few my rifle from 338 to 6.5 , all great work. Most of my actions have a recoil lug that is part of the action.

But what does one do if you have a tune up Remington sitting with a new barrel, non pinned lug with the action bedded?

Obviously we’ve sent actions back to guys like you and you’ve spun on good barrels.

Is the best step for you guns to unscrew and pin? If so will it also match? Or do we our shim the crap out off our alignment tool?

Ideally, I like to have the stock here if its been previously bedded. I shit you not. I had one in here a few weeks ago that I dickered with for darn near an hour just to get it "right" so that it'd go back into the stock without biasing to one side. Thankfully, those are pretty rare.

The better option (imo) is to always pin the lug on an action like the M700.

A lot of factory stocks, be it one as nice as Manner's stuff or sewer pipe OEM from whoever, have more than enough room to tolerate some deviation. It's the bedded stocks that a guy has to be real careful with.

Keep in mind also that pins are not infallible. The early day stuff when folks first started doing this often had 1/16th dia pins. You look at one of those funny and it'll shear right off. We use 3/32" dia and they tolerate it a whole lot better. So long as you grease the shoulder its generally not a problem.

 

[Namekagon]

Thanks everyone for your thoughts on this. Right now my stock is a B&C medalist and is not bedded. I planned on it, but never did it because it shot well enough to not worry about it. I have one load that is sub half moa at 100 all the time. I've struggled to find another bullet/powder combination that works, but that one that works is extremely good. Not sure if bedding the stock might make it less picky. Might be worth an experiment.

I'm guessing I could probably get by for awhile with an alignment tool. BUT...I would like to eventually upgrade to a Manners. When that happens, the Manners will get bedded. Seems like money would be better spent on pinned lug than the alignment tool from my perspective now.