Barrel threading

[Sebrock]

So I have a friend - we’ll call him “Debrock”. Yea it sounds like me but it’s not. Anyways, my “friend” somehow totally messed up the threads on a new 11.5 inch proof barrel when he tried to install a surefire brake (SOCOM suppressor mount). Actually he wanted to see if the brake fit the muzzle brake, then the adapter got stuck in the suppressor so he decided to just thread it on the barrel to remove it. Then somehow it went in wrong and it took bolting the barrel to my….I mean my friends barrel vise to remove it.
Debrock is a moron. Anyways the first 1/4 of the threads are shot. Is there any way to fix threads? Worth giving to my…..I mean my friends gunsmith to fix? Anyone want to buy a thread less proof barrel

 

[padom]

Chop, rethread, and hope you..I mean your friend...learned a lesson

 

[Sebrock]

Chop, rethread, and hope you..I mean your friend...learned a lesson

Turn it into a 10.3. I will let “my friend” know.

I’ve, I mean he, has never done anything so dumb. It was like getting into a car crash in slow motion with total awareness.

 

[Trigger Monkey]

True story, this exact same thing happened to an acquaintance of mine down to the Proof barrel, Surefire adapter, and ruining the first 1/4" of threads. I think he send it back to Proof.

 

[Sebrock]

True story, this exact same thing happened to an acquaintance of mine down to the Proof barrel, Surefire adapter, and ruining the first 1/4" of threads. I think he send it back to Proof.

I honestly still don’t understand what happened. I literally just started threading it and it stuck (I take 100% responsibility but it was such a freak thing - this isn’t my first rodeo -but it sure felt that way though. Lol - should have also cleaned the surefire threads before even screwing it on). I’m going to give them a call. Maybe they will chop it for me and rethread it.

 

[Trigger Monkey]

Talking to him it sounds like it was kind of the same deal, things were going good until they weren't and then it was super fucked.

 

[Sebrock]

Talking to him it sounds like it was kind of the same deal, things were going good until they weren't and then it was super fucked.

Super fucked. I had to buy another surefire three prong tool because I completely warped the first one trying to get the flash hider off. It only had 1/8 of an inch of engagement. It’s like it got cold welded after three turns. So strange.

 

[Trigger Monkey]

He showed me a picture of it and it was the damnedest thing I'd ever seen, the first several threads were gone. Funny, I was trying to find a picture similar to what happened to him and stumbled on this reddit post, oddly enough involving a Surefire adapter but a BA barrel.

 

[Sebrock]

He showed me a picture of it and it was the damnedest thing I'd ever seen, the first several threads were gone. Funny, I was trying to find a picture similar to what happened to him and stumbled on this reddit post, oddly enough involving a Surefire adapter but a BA barrel.

Looks very familiar. And I swear that this happened in three seconds. I was like - wait its stuck - how.

 

[Trigger Monkey]

Yeah his looked the same. Not pointing fingers but it's a helluva coincidence that two Proof barrels and a Ballistic Advantage barrel got screwed up in the exact same way by Surefire adapters.

 

[TRPrecision]

Bummer! there is no chop and rethread on that barrel, not enough steel before the carbon starts.

 

[padom]

Carbon barrel.....no re-threading that. Yikes..

Maybe get a 1/2-28 or 5/8-24 die and clean it up...if you can get that little bit of shit show cleaned up...even if it doesn't engage...there is enough thread left to engage your muzzle device.. good luck...

 

[Sebrock]

Yeah his looked the same. Not pointing fingers but it's a helluva coincidence that two Proof barrels and a Ballistic Advantage barrel got screwed up in the exact same way by Surefire adapters.

I do think that if I cleaned the threads before (surefire recommends it) and maybe was more careful it wouldn’t happen. My guess is that the surefire is so much harder than the steel on the barrel that if there is any grit on the threads and you go in at the wrong angle - you will just cut the threads off and dry weld it together. The amount of torque it took to get it off was insane. At one point I had a screw driver between the prongs and barely budged the prongs themselves. That thing is indestructible.

 

[Sebrock]

Carbon barrel.....no re-threading that. Yikes..

Maybe get a 1/2-28 or 5/8-24 die and clean it up...if you can get that little bit of shit show cleaned up...even if it doesn't engage...there is enough thread left to engage your muzzle device.. good luck...

I’m going to see what my gunsmith can do. Was thinking that and welding. It’s an 11.5 inch sbr build that I will never run un-suppressed.

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

You should be able to clean it up and have enough thread to still mount something but something is up with that... you would have had to majorly cross thread it to do that. Something doesn't add up here imo. Is there some issue with the steel or something or did you cross thread it , or different thread or something???You'd know if you did because it wold take some force to do it to that extent I would think. Pretty big coincidence this isn't a first with that barrel and type of mount right???

 

[TRPrecision]

Agree that there is probably enough threads remaining for it to work with. Any decent smith should have no problem cleaning up he damaged portion in the lathe.

 

[Sebrock]

You should be able to clean it up and have enough thread to still mount something but something is up with that... you would have had to majorly cross thread it to do that. Something doesn't add up here imo. Is there some issue with the steel or something or did you cross thread it? You'd know if you did because it wold take some force to do it to that extent I would think. Pretty big coincidence this isn't a first with that barrel and type of mount right???

Yeah I didn’t force it. I mean I deal with threading things on and off all the time. It took 5 seconds for this to happen. Two or three turns and I was baffled as to how it was stuck. I put it in my vise (where I have no issues threading and unthreading barrels onto my bolt actions) and completely warped the tool. Could not get it to budge. I put anti seize and let it sit for a few days while I waited for a new tool and it took a ton of micro movements to get it off. Crazy.

 

[Threadcutter308]

I honestly still don’t understand what happened. I literally just started threading it and it stuck (I take 100% responsibility but it was such a freak thing - this isn’t my first rodeo -but it sure felt that way though. Lol - should have also cleaned the surefire threads before even screwing it on). I’m going to give them a call. Maybe they will chop it for me and rethread it.

1. Stainless barrel ?
2. Stainless brake ?
3. Threads dry/No thread lube ?

Not the fault of any of the manufacturers/products.

Galled and seized.

 

[Sebrock]

1. Stainless barrel ?
2. Stainless brake ?
3. Threads dry/No thread lube ?

Galled and seized.

View attachment 7795308

Yup. That’s why I take 100% responsibility. I should have cleaned the threads of both. Put anti seize (which I use all the time) and carefully threaded the thing. I did everything wrong. However it took almost no force for it to gall and seize. But maybe that’s the lesson right? Doesn’t take much.

 

[Threadcutter308]

Yup. That’s why I take 100% responsibility. I should have cleaned the threads of both. Put anti seize (which I use all the time) and carefully threaded the thing. I did everything wrong. However it took almost no force for it to gall and seize. But maybe that’s the lesson right? Doesn’t take much.

My understanding is that in situations of stainless on stainless/dry threads, the galling is almost immediate. Full disclosure; I learned the hard way. Before I knew any better, I did exactly that (stainless on stainless/dry threads) with a (manufacturer's name omitted, wasn't their fault) stainless muzzle brake and a stainless barrel. I had even cleaned both threads with brake cleaner to get them "squeaky clean". I obviously didn't know.

I got the brake about half way on and it locked up. I was lucky, I was able to put the barrel in my lathe and cut the brake off. Not a cheap lesson, but it could have been worse. Now, I always use anti seize and tighten the brake down against the shoulder gutntite.

 

[Sebrock]

My understanding is that in situations of stainless on stainless/dry threads, the galling is almost immediate. Full disclosure; I learned the hard way. Before I knew any better, I did exactly that (stainless on stainless/dry threads) with a (manufacturer's name omitted, wasn't their fault) stainless muzzle brake and a stainless barrel. I had even cleaned both threads with brake cleaner to get them "squeaky clean". I obviously didn't know.

I got the brake about half way on and it locked up. I was lucky, I was able to put the barrel in my lathe and cut the brake off. Not a cheap lesson, but it could have been worse. Now, I always use anti seize and tighten the brake down against the shoulder gutntite.

Mark me down in the hard lesson to learn club. I would have cleaned it with brake cleaner too - but I would not have thought to use anti-seize (I mostly use it when I thread on suppressors). Now I know. Why does this never happen to me on my centerfire barrels? Larger threads? 5/8x24 vs the 1/2x28?

 

[J McGriddle]

Its definitely salvageable. While you are at, have your gunsmith check the barrel and brake with thread gages. If this happens again, you're probably SOL.

 

[MontanaMan]

Having that happen is not all that uncommon & BA barrel threads are sometimes on the big end of spec for pitch & depth.

You don't absolutely need all those threads anyway, so have you smith chuck up the barrel, preferably in a lathe with a pass-through headstock chuck, get all the runout ironed out & just turn off the damaged threads. Then use a die & chase the remaining threads several times with lube.

MM

 

[unclemoak]

This would be easy enough to fix by turning down the damaged section and leaving the intact section.

If you’re having trouble finding someone to do it, I’d be happy to lend a hand getting it repaired.

 

[corey4]

what's the issue with screwing stainless components together? why sould stainless do that?

1. Stainless barrel ?
2. Stainless brake ?
3. Threads dry/No thread lube ?

Galled and seized.

View attachment 7795308

what's the issue with screwing stainless components together? why sould stainless do that?

 

[loveha]

what's the issue with screwing stainless components together? why sould stainless do that?

Any amount of debris, or the smallest burr between two stainless items causes the two to gall. Essentially seizing them permanently together. Most times, if it is bolt and nut, you need to cut them apart, or snap the bolt if small enough. Lucky it was only the first few threads on that barrel, otherwise could have twisted the entire end off. Lots of thread left to just cut off and recrown on a lathe. Also simply running clean new nuts and bolts together via impact can cause it. The speed between the two causing heat via friction. Worked 8 years in a food factory as maintenance where stainless is used almost exclusively. Galled my fair share of stainless hardware.

Stainless Steel Galling and Its Causes | RG Group

Being aware of galling & taking precautions when using stainless steel parts, you can avoid the hours of headache and rework. Learn more!

www.rg-group.com

 

[addertooth]

Very interesting. Thank You for posting pictures. Comments from a person who welds and machines:
1. Those threads were surprisingly soft. I would be curious what the hardness of the barrel was at the threads. As a minimum, what a file-test tells you about the softness of the threads.

2. I would be interested in what a micrometer tells you about the diameter of the peak and the valley of the threads (as well as the pitch). For the valley, you need to use a wire measurement, or a specific micrometer for measuring threads. The same is true of the Adapter which was screwed on.

3. I am unsure what building it back up with TIG, and then re-machining would do. It may slightly distort the barrel.

4. For those who stumble across this thread (no pun intended) in the future, while in a stuck state... pack the barrel in dry ice (for at least 15 minutes, as steel is a poor conductor of heat energy), then apply heat to the adapter with a torch (hopefully with a spreader tip on it). Once that is done, try to unscrew.

 

[supercorndogs]

Galling causes both piece to friction weld themselves together. Heating one and freezing the other can't undo that. In general when getting stuck parts apart, you only need the heat. When thermal fitting parts, you heat one and freeze the other. When they are already screwed together, cooling one then heating the other, just means you warmed up the one you cooled.

Usually when removing stuck fasteners heat is your friend. When they are galled, there is no easy way.

 

[addertooth]

I am shocked that it became THAT galled without the wrench you are tightening it with, giving a LOT of feedback of badness. I have only seen that level of thread wiping from VERY soft materials, or Insane force being applied during tightening. Galling typically requires a fair amount of force, certainly not Hand Tightening. Remember, you are deforming steel, and not salt-water taffy. I have seen it when the wrong Change Gear was in the Lathe, and the threads were slightly off (the threads per inch not a good match between the two threaded surfaces).

 

[supercorndogs]

Stainless will gall if you look at it wrong. ITs famous for it. I have seen a stainless nut and bolt freeze sitting on the bench overnight, granted it probably started when I was and threading them together to keep the nuts and washers all together. It just takes one little bugger to stick, then the pressure builds as that bugger gets bigger and welds itself to more metal.

My dad talks about a bus order, where they ordered all the busses with all stainless hardware. He said they ended having to use anti-seize on every single bolt and nut they put together, because bare, they were having a lot hardware gall going together, and even more of it was not coming apart. Always, always, always, always, put anti-seize on stainless.

 

[Threadcutter308]

Stainless will gall if you look at it wrong. ITs famous for it. I have seen a stainless nut and bolt freeze sitting on the bench overnight, granted it probably started when I was and threading them together to keep the nuts and washers all together. It just takes one little bugger to stick, then the pressure builds as that bugger gets bigger and welds itself to more metal.

My dad talks about a bus order, where they ordered all the busses with all stainless hardware. He said they ended having to use anti-seize on every single bolt and nut they put together, because bare, they were having a lot hardware gall going together, and even more of it was not coming apart. Always, always, always, always, put anti-seize on stainless.

This.

in my prior post above, I showed the antiseize compound that I use. Prior discussions on this topic have decayed into arguments about "which is best" ?

I'm not going to get involved in that because personally, I don't think it matters. What I showed above has worked for me without fail. Use it or don't use it, I really don't care. But, whatever you do, just use some kind of anti seize compound.

Don't over think this, it's not that complicated. Other than maybe my advice to have plenty of paper towels around, this shit gets everywhere.

 

[Jrb572]

I went and pulled my brake this morning. I don’t remember putting anti seize on it. Luckily it came off. I will put some on it for sure now.

 

[msgriff]

This would be easy enough to fix by turning down the damaged section and leaving the intact section.

If you’re having trouble finding someone to do it, I’d be happy to lend a hand getting it repaired.

How do you guys chuck up carbon fiber barrels?

 

[Threadcutter308]

I went and pulled my brake this morning. I don’t remember putting anti seize on it. Luckily it came off. I will put some on it for sure now.

Everyone should also keep in mind that whatever is being attached to the barrel should be regularly checked for tightness if anti seize is used.

For those that want to "permanently" affix the brake via the use of loctite or Rocksett, those compounds start out as liquid/pastes and could be considered "lubricants" while liquid/installing the brake. I've never used loctite or Rocksett on the installation of a stainless brake on a stainless barrel, but I would assume no problems.

After a great deal of cost and monkeying around, I finally just sold all my brakes and adapters and went to direct thread (with just a dab of anti seize). The reason ? The quick change adapters were unreliable and weren't working to my liking, particularly considering the costs involved.

 

[Jrb572]

Everyone should also keep in mind that whatever is being attached to the barrel should be regularly checked for tightness if anti seize is used.

For those that want to "permanently" affix the brake via the use of loctite or Rocksett, those compounds start out as liquid/pastes and could be considered "lubricants" while liquid/installing the brake. I've never used loctite or Rocksett on the installation of a stainless brake on a stainless barrel, but I would assume no problems.

After a great deal of cost and monkeying around, I finally just sold all my brakes and adapters and went to direct thread (with just a dab of anti seize). The reason ? The quick change adapters were unreliable and weren't working to my liking, particularly considering the costs involved.

I would do something like that but I have a direct thread suppressor and we occasionally hunt in an area I prefer to put a suppressor on

 

[unclemoak]

How do you guys chuck up carbon fiber barrels?

It depends on what is being done to the barrel, but generally, it's not wise to chuck up on the CF portion of the barrel.

 

[ShofarTactical]

I had this exact same problem with a Surefire Warcomp and Proof Research carbon fiber 11.5" 223 Wylde barrel. I followed all good practices before installing. After several rotations, the muzzle device became difficult to turn. It was very difficult to remove and galled the threads on the barrel. I contacted Proof and they knew which muzzle device did it before I even told them. They said it was a compatibility issue between Surefire and Proof. They said Surefire was aware of the problem. Proof wouldn't do anything to rectify the situation and said I should contact Surefire. Surefire has agreed to remedy the situation. I've sent both the barrel and muzzle device to Surefire.

 

[mewillis]

Wow, I'm considering buying a Socom supressor myself and I don't see how this is possible with the fact there are specific thread specs for devices and direct thread supressors?? Seems to me it's a Proof issue not a SF. Out of the 15 or so devices I've threaded I have never had this kind of thread issue. Colt, Remington, KAC, Armalite barrels zero issues on or off. Very suspicious to me with the Proof response........

 

[ShofarTactical]

Wow, I'm considering buying a Socom supressor myself and I don't see how this is possible with the fact there are specific thread specs for devices and direct thread supressors?? Seems to me it's a Proof issue not a SF. Out of the 15 or so devices I've threaded I have never had this kind of thread issue. Colt, Remington, KAC, Armalite barrels zero issues on or off. Very suspicious to me with the Proof response........

I've been studying this a lot. As others have mentioned in here, it seems to be cold welding together because it's stainless on stainless. The tolerances between the two thread patterns were very tight. This can cause friction which welds the two on a molecular level. If there's any debris it can happen as well. Really, lubricant should be used. Why didn't I use lubricant? Because Surefire instructions say to use a degreaser so Rocksett can be applied. The Rocksett could be used as somewhat of a lubricant, but you would have to put it on from the very beginning. Even in Surefire's installation video they don't do that. They establish the timing first and then apply Rocksett. That's what I was going to do as well. I specifically wanted to test whether I like it timed for right hand before using Rocksett. All in all, I believe it comes down to very tight thread tolerances on both parts and having completely dry, clean surfaces.

 

[srt-4_uk]

Wow, I'm considering buying a Socom supressor myself and I don't see how this is possible with the fact there are specific thread specs for devices and direct thread supressors?? Seems to me it's a Proof issue not a SF. Out of the 15 or so devices I've threaded I have never had this kind of thread issue. Colt, Remington, KAC, Armalite barrels zero issues on or off. Very suspicious to me with the Proof response........

So you haven't used Surefire muzzle devices or Proof barrels, but you say it's a Proof problem? Interesting conclusion.

 

[mewillis]

No I said I was suspicious of Proofs response. And I do have a SF Socom FH just no Socom silencer yet. You misread my post.…..

 

[srt-4_uk]

Seems to me it's a Proof issue not a SF.

I guess I did misread

Many people use Surefire devices with 0 issues and many run proof barrels with 0 issues. The fact proof knew what muzzle device it was before the customer said anything tells me it's some incompatibility issue between the two.

 

[hlee]

I've been studying this a lot. As others have mentioned in here, it seems to be cold welding together because it's stainless on stainless. The tolerances between the two thread patterns were very tight. This can cause friction which welds the two on a molecular level. If there's any debris it can happen as well. Really, lubricant should be used. Why didn't I use lubricant? Because Surefire instructions say to use a degreaser so Rocksett can be applied. The Rocksett could be used as somewhat of a lubricant, but you would have to put it on from the very beginning. Even in Surefire's installation video they don't do that. They establish the timing first and then apply Rocksett. That's what I was going to do as well. I specifically wanted to test whether I like it timed for right hand before using Rocksett. All in all, I believe it comes down to very tight thread tolerances on both parts and having completely dry, clean surfaces.

Lube the device for initial assembly. Once you are sure about how it will be assembled, Degrease and add rockset...

 

[ShofarTactical]

Lube the device for initial assembly. Once you are sure about how it will be assembled, Degrease and add rockset...

That's the plan in the future.

 

[xciapup]

Murray Tools Split Die Thread Repair System - Repair Threads Fast!

Looks like I am late to the party. This is what I would use to fix the threads. A split die.

 

[kentuckyMarksman]

I know this is a late reply, but I did something similar once. I ended up cleaning the threads a bit with a file, and then took a die over it. Worked just fine for me.