barrel twist/long range

[Cuban Croc]

I have noticed my impacts are progressively right the further I go back.

Could this specifically be the barrel twist?

If this is true; can I adjust the ballistic program to account for this?

Worst case scenario adjust the windage in the program?

Anybody else experience this?

Thanks in advance.

Note: CZ 455 .22, SK Match, 986fps

 

[DFOOSKING]

It's wind.

 

[Cuban Croc]

It's wind.

I feel like my groups are right regardless of the wind.

scope/action/barrel alignment?

2.1 mils to a 100 today (60 degrees)
1.7 mils to a 100 during the summer (100 degrees)

I know off topic.

Can’t figure out enough to tight everything up to shoot a comp with it.

.22 is finicky.

 

[jbell]

Is the scope level? Have you performed a tall target tracking test?

 

[Cuban Croc]

Is the scope level? Have you performed a tall target tracking test?

Probably should do a box test.

 

[Cuban Croc]

Probably should do a box test.

Scope shows level. Have a Bushnell with GAP reticle. Still need to do a box test.

 

[jbell]

Are you holding it a little canted naturally when your shooting? It can be easy to do especially if the target and / or backdrop is off plumb.

 

[Cuban Croc]

Are you holding it a little canted naturally when your shooting? It can be easy to do especially if the target and / or backdrop is off plumb.

Maybe

I’ll look into that as well. Thank you. So, people shooting a solid .22 right now don’t have issues with the bullet drifting at range?

 

[Topstrap]

Spin drift if you're positive your scope is perfect. I spend a lot of time making absolutely sure my scope is perfect and tracks exactly up a verticle line placed at 40 yards thru 100 minutes of elevation adjustment. My personal range is nestled in a small valley surrounded by trees and in the evening smoke rises perfectly straight up.

Same as centerfire, check Strelok and it'll show your drift starting even before 200 yards and shows more the farther out you shoot. Usually Mother Nature is messing with your bullet out there it's hard to see its affect but it's there.

Topstrap

 

[Cuban Croc]

Spin drift if you're positive your scope is perfect. I spend a lot of time making absolutely sure my scope is perfect and tracks exactly up a verticle line placed at 40 yards thru 100 minutes of elevation adjustment. My personal range is nestled in a small valley surrounded by trees and in the evening smoke rises perfectly straight up.

Same as centerfire, check Strelok and it'll show your drift starting even before 200 yards and shows more the farther out you shoot. Usually Mother Nature is messing with your bullet out there it's hard to see its affect but it's there.

Topstrap

How do you adjust for spin drift? I use GeoBallistics.

 

[justin amateur]

Shooting log.
I record scope settings for conditions, cartridge and distance.

At 100 yards plus, you can track projectile spiral
by watching the compression wave lens and see the flight path,
as the bullet approaches the target/backer.
A visual distortion is created by the bullet interaction with the atmosphere.
Adjust y'er scope and pay attention to the lensing
that forms around the bullet, even with standard velocity 22lr.

I see a spiral rise up then drop and curve down and right.

 

[jbell]

Maybe

I’ll look into that as well. Thank you. So, people shooting a solid .22 right now don’t have issues with the bullet drifting at range?

I would just completely rule this kind of stuff before looking at adjusting your data

 

[Cuban Croc]

I would just completely rule this kind of stuff before looking at adjusting your data

Yes sir. I will start over checking everything. It’s crazy to shoot bug holes at 50 yards and the get out past 100 and things get wonky. Elevation isn’t my major issue. It is windage and/or spin drift is a killer. About an 1in group at 100 yards. About an 1” to and 1 1/2” to the right at 100 yards. Seems relatively consistent.

 

[BigDaddy0381]

What's the twist in your barrel? I know a 1/12 the impct is more right than the normal 16 tw. In one of my rifles.

 

[Cuban Croc]

What's the twist in your barrel? I know a 1/12 the impct is more right than the normal 16 tw. In one of my rifles.

1/12

 

[A&8's]

Is that it a prefit or shouldered barrel installed by the smith who chambered it?

 

[Cuban Croc]

What's the twist in your barrel? I know a 1/12 the impct is more right than the normal 16 tw. In one of my rifles.

Have you experienced this? How did adjusting for the drift? I thought about adjusting the windage to a set standard to see if this works.

Is that it a prefit or shouldered barrel installed by the smith who chambered it?

The barrel that came with the rifle.

 

[jbell]

Yes sir. I will start over checking everything. It’s crazy to shoot bug holes at 50 yards and the get out past 100 and things get wonky. Elevation isn’t my major issue. It is windage and/or spin drift is a killer. About an 1in group at 100 yards. About an 1” to and 1 1/2” to the right at 100 yards. Seems relatively consistent.

It very well could be spin drift. If it’s repeatable every time you go shoot, especially at different shooting locations then it more than likely a mechanical thing (scope tracking right, how your shouldering the rifle, or spin drift). But a tall target test (not a box test) where you are able to dial more than the range where you see this should show you a lot. Spin drift will not show up on a tall target test, but a canted rifle or scope, or a reticle that doesn’t track straight down will. Keep us posted on what you find.

 

[Cuban Croc]

It very well could be spin drift. If it’s repeatable every time you go shoot, especially at different shooting locations then it more than likely a mechanical thing (scope tracking right, how your shouldering the rifle, or spin drift). But a tall target test (not a box test) where you are able to dial more than the range where you see this should show you a lot. Spin drift will not show up on a tall target test, but a canted rifle or scope, or a reticle that doesn’t track straight down will. Keep us posted on what you find.

Yes sir. It won’t be till next weekend, but I’ll run a tall target test.

 

[BigDaddy0381]

I would add +1/10 @100 and +2 @150 then +3@ 200. It worked for me.

 

[Cuban Croc]

 

[Cuban Croc]

 

[jbell]

Is the whole barrel bedded?

 

[Cuban Croc]

Great observation. Yes, whoever owned the rifle before bedded the barrel the length of the stock. I know about free floating barrels. That said, not to knowledgeable on .22’s. It shoots really well. I like hunting with it especially at night. I have a small clip-on. I’m just trying to do these local three hundred yard belly flop matches and I’m not getting ol’girl honed in real well. Frustrating as .

 

[jbell]

If it shoots then it shoots. Don’t mess with it. I was just curious…

 

[obx22]

Have you studied the mirage from close to far? Those angles of flow are rarely consistent but if you catch an early morning/evening to shoot in steady air, you will truely “see” what’s going on.
If your groups are satisfactory, then what you are likely seeing is spin drift. For me, since wind is a constant variable to contend with, I just bear the spin drift in mind when shooting at a specific longer distance. Not technical or science, but more a “the wind is doing this, and spin drift will add or subtract about this much, send it.
Do it enough and you will get a “feel” for it. I don’t know how else to explain it.
Another thing, in steady air, when the little puff hit the mirage, it’s amazing how much it pushes that little pill around. The slightest tilt (of the mirage) can drift that slug left or right, as well as effect its rise and fall.

 

[Defender32]

An app like applied ballistics or a kestrel 5700 w/ AB will account for the spin drift en every setup. You have to build the rifle profile and it spits the data out.

A 12t & 13t will produce more RIGHT spin drift from 150y to 350y than a 16t does. You add the slightest 2-3 mph L-R wind and it grows double +. You add the same 2-3 mph wind R-L and the hold is essentially straight up.

The only way you will ever learn it is to shoot it and track it. Like what @BigDaddy0381 said on drift will be real close on a DEAD Calm day. That is at least a good starting point for you to learn.

What @jbell said about a level is 100% more important with the speeds of rimfire than center fire. A rimfire at 300y is like shooting a 308 to 1k. 2-3 degrees of can't makes a lot of difference. Shooters Global Pulse or MDT Send it levels are the top of the line for a digital level to keep you on track. You can also get some good bubble levels from MK Machining that will mount on your optic rail. Bubble levels can still be off like a digital can as well. However it is better than trying to level it with your eyes. Also a tall target test is worth it to know things are tracking right. Then when you add you level of choice to it you will know if it is off or not.

Good luck learning the long range 22lr addiction. Do yourself a favor and just go jump into a NRL22 or PRS rimfire match and ask questions. Shooters will help you out.

 

[Taylorbok]

Ballistic calculator should account for spin drift. I'm not familiar with Geo ballistics but I'd bet it's in there.
Look through the settings.

 

[RTH1800]

My 16 twist rifles move .125 at 100 yards from a center zero at 50. It really takes a lot of calm weather condition shooting to tell.

 

[Sterlingb06]

Before messing with your ballistic program, I'd double-check your scope mounting and make sure everything is rock solid.

 

[Taylorbok]

Why does it sound like so many people in this thread are just Raw dogging spin drift?

My 22 LR with 50 yard zero spin drift
.06 mil @ 100
.2 mil @ 200
.4 mil @ 300

 

[Jack_L]

That sounds like spin drift to me.
I am shooting 1 in 12" and 1 in 13"
I start to factor in spin drift for anything past 150 or so.
150: 0.1
200: 0.2
300: 0.3
350: 0.4

When zeroing, I want the group average to be center or just left of center. I have had gun/scope/ammo combinations that were 0.07 left of center average (10 round groups), which I prefer over 0.03 right, and I was fine.

I have definitely noticed that longer range (250-350) targets in matches will have significantly more impacts on the right side of the plate than the left side of the plate, which also means that there are more missed shots to the right side of the plate than any other side. I theorize that many competitors do not account for spin drift with .22, and thus the right-side trend at longer ranges.

 

[Spartan67]

This has been covered many times here before.

Frank even made a instructional video on it..

 

[6.5SH]

Ballistic calculator should account for spin drift. I'm not familiar with Geo ballistics but I'd bet it's in there.
Look through the settings.

The little gear icon at the top right on the Chart tab has the setting. It is usually on by default.

If you put 0 MPH wind should see a wind correction of L 0.3 at 300 yards with a 1:12 right twist

 

[Cuban Croc]

Have you studied the mirage from close to far? Those angles of flow are rarely consistent but if you catch an early morning/evening to shoot in steady air, you will truely “see” what’s going on.
If your groups are satisfactory, then what you are likely seeing is spin drift. For me, since wind is a constant variable to contend with, I just bear the spin drift in mind when shooting at a specific longer distance. Not technical or science, but more a “the wind is doing this, and spin drift will add or subtract about this much, send it.
Do it enough and you will get a “feel” for it. I don’t know how else to explain it.
Another thing, in steady air, when the little puff hit the mirage, it’s amazing how much it pushes that little pill around. The slightest tilt (of the mirage) can drift that slug left or right, as well as effect its rise and fall.

Thank you.

 

[Cuban Croc]

An app like applied ballistics or a kestrel 5700 w/ AB will account for the spin drift en every setup. You have to build the rifle profile and it spits the data out.

A 12t & 13t will produce more RIGHT spin drift from 150y to 350y than a 16t does. You add the slightest 2-3 mph L-R wind and it grows double +. You add the same 2-3 mph wind R-L and the hold is essentially straight up.

The only way you will ever learn it is to shoot it and track it. Like what @BigDaddy0381 said on drift will be real close on a DEAD Calm day. That is at least a good starting point for you to learn.

What @jbell said about a level is 100% more important with the speeds of rimfire than center fire. A rimfire at 300y is like shooting a 308 to 1k. 2-3 degrees of can't makes a lot of difference. Shooters Global Pulse or MDT Send it levels are the top of the line for a digital level to keep you on track. You can also get some good bubble levels from MK Machining that will mount on your optic rail. Bubble levels can still be off like a digital can as well. However it is better than trying to level it with your eyes. Also a tall target test is worth it to know things are tracking right. Then when you add you level of choice to it you will know if it is off or not.

Good luck learning the long range 22lr addiction. Do yourself a favor and just go jump into a NRL22 or PRS rimfire match and ask questions. Shooters will help you out.

Thank you.

An app like applied ballistics or a kestrel 5700 w/ AB will account for the spin drift en every setup. You have to build the rifle profile and it spits the data out.

A 12t & 13t will produce more RIGHT spin drift from 150y to 350y than a 16t does. You add the slightest 2-3 mph L-R wind and it grows double +. You add the same 2-3 mph wind R-L and the hold is essentially straight up.

The only way you will ever learn it is to shoot it and track it. Like what @BigDaddy0381 said on drift will be real close on a DEAD Calm day. That is at least a good starting point for you to learn.

What @jbell said about a level is 100% more important with the speeds of rimfire than center fire. A rimfire at 300y is like shooting a 308 to 1k. 2-3 degrees of can't makes a lot of difference. Shooters Global Pulse or MDT Send it levels are the top of the line for a digital level to keep you on track. You can also get some good bubble levels from MK Machining that will mount on your optic rail. Bubble levels can still be off like a digital can as well. However it is better than trying to level it with your eyes. Also a tall target test is worth it to know things are tracking right. Then when you add you level of choice to it you will know if it is off or not.

Good luck learning the long range 22lr addiction. Do yourself a favor and just go jump into a NRL22 or PRS rimfire match and ask questions. Shooters will help you out.

Thank you.

 

[Cuban Croc]

Note: I have a 1/16 twist barrel. I put the crack up. Thank you.