Will the bedding job done on my CZ-527 walnut stocked rifle be inferior is Brownells Acraglas is used ?
Gunsmithing Bedding compound
- Thread starter Iron Worker
- Start date
Inferior to what? And in what way?
If you're talking about aesthetics, a professionally done inlet/bed job with pillars is going to look 5000x better than a few globs of Acraglass or JB Weld.
In terms of actual performance... Put it this way, I had an action professionally inletted and bedded. I ended up changing to a chassis, then to another composite stock, and on the new composite stock I put a dab of JB Weld on the recoil lug area, and another around the tang screw hole. Rifle still shoots 1/2 MOA. It's not perma-glued to the stock, I taped off surfaces that needed it, and cleaned up after the epoxy set just a little bit.
You don't NEED a full-length skim bed, nor do you NEED a full-length bed with the bedding compound all at the same thickness and a professional looking inlet. It does look very nice, though. You want the action not to be bound up in the stock, the action screws to touch nothing but the action and bottom metal, the trigger free-hanging, and the recoil lug squarely seated in ONE possible position. 2 gobs of epoxy accomplishes that.
Don't get me wrong, it is very possible to fuck up a bedding job, but you can get the same performance from an easy home-spun application as you can spending $750 to have it done professionally. No doubt there will be someone here to tell me that JB weld shrinks X% more than DEVCON or Marine Tex, and some other precise pointers, but if they mattered beyond the scope of "noise" I'd see it in my groups.
The other thing you're going to want to look at, because this is a walnut stock, is pillars. I typically say that in modern composite stocks pillars aren't really necessary, but in wood stocks I do suggest them. Wood fibers do compress, and they do swell with humidity and temperature changes, and it can mess with POI, action screw torque, accuracy, etc.
Oh, and Acraglas is runny. Get good with tape dams and clay. The Gel version filled with milled fiber or microballoons is a lot easier to work with.
If you're talking about aesthetics, a professionally done inlet/bed job with pillars is going to look 5000x better than a few globs of Acraglass or JB Weld.
In terms of actual performance... Put it this way, I had an action professionally inletted and bedded. I ended up changing to a chassis, then to another composite stock, and on the new composite stock I put a dab of JB Weld on the recoil lug area, and another around the tang screw hole. Rifle still shoots 1/2 MOA. It's not perma-glued to the stock, I taped off surfaces that needed it, and cleaned up after the epoxy set just a little bit.
You don't NEED a full-length skim bed, nor do you NEED a full-length bed with the bedding compound all at the same thickness and a professional looking inlet. It does look very nice, though. You want the action not to be bound up in the stock, the action screws to touch nothing but the action and bottom metal, the trigger free-hanging, and the recoil lug squarely seated in ONE possible position. 2 gobs of epoxy accomplishes that.
Don't get me wrong, it is very possible to fuck up a bedding job, but you can get the same performance from an easy home-spun application as you can spending $750 to have it done professionally. No doubt there will be someone here to tell me that JB weld shrinks X% more than DEVCON or Marine Tex, and some other precise pointers, but if they mattered beyond the scope of "noise" I'd see it in my groups.
The other thing you're going to want to look at, because this is a walnut stock, is pillars. I typically say that in modern composite stocks pillars aren't really necessary, but in wood stocks I do suggest them. Wood fibers do compress, and they do swell with humidity and temperature changes, and it can mess with POI, action screw torque, accuracy, etc.
Oh, and Acraglas is runny. Get good with tape dams and clay. The Gel version filled with milled fiber or microballoons is a lot easier to work with.
I've used Devcon 10110 in the past. I've seen any number of references to it from lot of people who do bedding.
I've also seen an article written by "Speedy" Gonzolas (one of the best BR gunsmiths around) where he reports that he's taken certified blocks of several bedding compounds and measured them for shrinkage over time. He reported that Marine Tex had the least shrinkage.
I've also seen an article written by "Speedy" Gonzolas (one of the best BR gunsmiths around) where he reports that he's taken certified blocks of several bedding compounds and measured them for shrinkage over time. He reported that Marine Tex had the least shrinkage.
The gunsmith that has my rifle swears by Brownells Acraglas ,thinks it's way better than Devcon. No way do I want to send the rifle out to a smith just so he uses Devcon . This is second rifle he will bed for me,removed stock from first rifle to look at job he did, and it looks first class . So what am I worried about ? So many opinions Devcon,Marine Tex,Pro bed . One smith said in the 70s Acraglas was all that was around and he still shoots the rifles he bedded with the stuff in the 70s and they shoot just fine now. Also gunsmith said he'll install pillars if he thinks they're needed ? Smith has built two rifles for me and they both shoot very well.
Bedding and resins:
Know why bedding jobs fall apart over time? It's because the person doing the work fails to portion part A/B properly and/or fails to mix the two components together sufficiently. One must always respect the fact that resins rely on a chemical reaction. There is no drying. It's a curing process.
Better resins have a high percentage of solids. This is a good thing. We can use cement and concrete as the example. Pour a sidewalk in cement and it'll fall apart pretty quickly. Concrete lasts for decades. The reason is the binders added give the adhesive something to latch onto and it increases the overall strength. Resin is no different.
Marine Tex, Devcon, JB Weld, etc... They have all been used for decades now and they all work. One is not better than the other. Argue this however a person might want and quote all the material data sheets ever written Any of them will work. So will Acra Glass. I would however consider avoiding Acra Glass Gel. It has ground up nylon in it and nylon is known to be hydroscopic. Simply to mean it likes to hang onto moisture. Not such a good idea if your action is carbon steel and you live in a muggy area. It can freckle up on you.
Regardless of what you use, observe the following:
You want a long open clamp time. Simply to mean a resin that gives you plenty of time to work and fiddle. Rushing this only ends poorly.
Fold. Do not stir. It'll help to mitigate the buildup of air.
Prep work, prep work, prep work. Leave no stone unturned.
Review your process by trial fitting a few times in advance. Get a procedure in your head so you know what to do next.
Notice what I've not done here:
I'm not giving you a laundry list of tape, clay, resins to buy.
This process is more about procedure and less about products. Focus on that more than the tendency to hyperventilate over what resin to use.
As for quality of work and how relevant it is, I will use myself as the example.
I (LRI) charge roughly double for a bedding job compared to others. What seems to be overlooked is that we begin with stocks straight from the mold. In this form the piece more resembles a canoe paddle than a rifle stock. From here we inlet. Then bed, Then post machine, Then finish. Its at least 4x times the work as what 99.9% of competitors put into it. The infrastructure to do this costs well into 6 figures. The intended outcome is improved fit and finish. A gun that, in addition to shooting well, presents well. Both inside and outside. For those who could care less, do as you will and I wish you the best.
As stated, the bullet and the paper down range will not reflect this added effort one little bit. I've strapped barreled actions to stocks with nothing more than hose clamps bought at a hardware store and shot small groups. That isn't what this is about. Guns here in America are a luxury item. The percentage of folks who frequent this site that actually depend on a firearm is very, very, very small. A 79 Pinto will get you to work just as well as a new Denali. A great number of us aspire to have the nicer car.
This stuff is no different. The simple fact is, any well vetted shop/smith can produce a rifle that makes small holes on paper. It's just not that hard to do. Building something that will trigger an emotional response is a bit more work.
Good luck.
Know why bedding jobs fall apart over time? It's because the person doing the work fails to portion part A/B properly and/or fails to mix the two components together sufficiently. One must always respect the fact that resins rely on a chemical reaction. There is no drying. It's a curing process.
Better resins have a high percentage of solids. This is a good thing. We can use cement and concrete as the example. Pour a sidewalk in cement and it'll fall apart pretty quickly. Concrete lasts for decades. The reason is the binders added give the adhesive something to latch onto and it increases the overall strength. Resin is no different.
Marine Tex, Devcon, JB Weld, etc... They have all been used for decades now and they all work. One is not better than the other. Argue this however a person might want and quote all the material data sheets ever written Any of them will work. So will Acra Glass. I would however consider avoiding Acra Glass Gel. It has ground up nylon in it and nylon is known to be hydroscopic. Simply to mean it likes to hang onto moisture. Not such a good idea if your action is carbon steel and you live in a muggy area. It can freckle up on you.
Regardless of what you use, observe the following:
You want a long open clamp time. Simply to mean a resin that gives you plenty of time to work and fiddle. Rushing this only ends poorly.
Fold. Do not stir. It'll help to mitigate the buildup of air.
Prep work, prep work, prep work. Leave no stone unturned.
Review your process by trial fitting a few times in advance. Get a procedure in your head so you know what to do next.
Notice what I've not done here:
I'm not giving you a laundry list of tape, clay, resins to buy.
This process is more about procedure and less about products. Focus on that more than the tendency to hyperventilate over what resin to use.
As for quality of work and how relevant it is, I will use myself as the example.
I (LRI) charge roughly double for a bedding job compared to others. What seems to be overlooked is that we begin with stocks straight from the mold. In this form the piece more resembles a canoe paddle than a rifle stock. From here we inlet. Then bed, Then post machine, Then finish. Its at least 4x times the work as what 99.9% of competitors put into it. The infrastructure to do this costs well into 6 figures. The intended outcome is improved fit and finish. A gun that, in addition to shooting well, presents well. Both inside and outside. For those who could care less, do as you will and I wish you the best.
As stated, the bullet and the paper down range will not reflect this added effort one little bit. I've strapped barreled actions to stocks with nothing more than hose clamps bought at a hardware store and shot small groups. That isn't what this is about. Guns here in America are a luxury item. The percentage of folks who frequent this site that actually depend on a firearm is very, very, very small. A 79 Pinto will get you to work just as well as a new Denali. A great number of us aspire to have the nicer car.
This stuff is no different. The simple fact is, any well vetted shop/smith can produce a rifle that makes small holes on paper. It's just not that hard to do. Building something that will trigger an emotional response is a bit more work.
Good luck.
Devcon with steel tends to rust. +1 on marine Tex. The acraglass is a bit on the soft side. Check out Ernie the gunsmith - he sells a kit that you can do yourself. To me the DIY is the fun part. And the most utilitarian rifle is often not the best looking rifle
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