Beginner (first competition) rifle suggestions?

E

Elxx

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Nov 23, 2008
208
0
Tucson AZ
#1
I've never done competitions but been an avid target shooter (and light hunting). Shooting my ancient .30-06 is killing the wallet and is losing its fun. So what would be something I could invest into for competitions (.223 400 yard for local NRA).

I was thinking of a used 700 action on a a3 Macmillan but I'm thinking its cheaper to buy a 700 factory and add after market later down the road. I'm never going to get "serious" so i'm looking for lowend with 1 MOA-ish? The people I'm competing against aren't exactly in their prime nor are they rifles they use.

So should I shop for used and throw it all together (could be fun? ) or just buy factor and replace what I can when I can?

***700 sps varmint (.223) + rings + SS 10fixed + bipod?

That seems to be as cheap as I can think of. O, and I'm left handed =/

Also, what do you guys think about suppressors? Would it be useful during practice sessions or a waste of money?
 
#3
Re: Beginner (first competition) rifle suggestions?

My opinion would be to find a used rifle in nice shape.There are tons of them out there and that's a popular caliber, certainly could find one with little use.Just get a decent optic and go practice....I'd hold off on anything like stocks until you find what you want and see/try other shooters combos.Hell, if you attend a match or join a club you might get a deal from someone moving up/out on a ready to shoot package..it happens! Good luck and have fun..
 
#4
Re: Beginner (first competition) rifle suggestions?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Exhogflyer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My opinion would be to find a used rifle in nice shape.There are tons of them out there and that's a popular caliber, certainly could find one with little use.Just get a decent optic and go practice....I'd hold off on anything like stocks until you find what you want and see/try other shooters combos.Hell, if you attend a match or join a club you might get a deal from someone moving up/out on a ready to shoot package..it happens! Good luck and have fun.. </div></div>


+1 and savage makes a good rifle. get a rifle and glass first and worry about a new stock a year from when you get it.
ive had my ar for a year now and im jest getting my first new stock



Scott
 
#5
Re: Beginner (first competition) rifle suggestions?

I agree with either the SPS Varmint or Tactical in .223 for 400 and in. The Tactical has the better stock out of the factory, but both need improving. You can find a used H-S Precision on here for a couple of hunred. Also, to save $$$ you can look at the Bushnell 3200 10x.
 
#6
Re: Beginner (first competition) rifle suggestions?

First off exactly what kind of "NRA" competition are you going to be shooting. If it is conventional highpower it is fired at 100, 200, 300, 500 sometimes and 600.
2. It is strictly iron sights.
3. You will need rapid fire reload capability as conventional highpower is fired in 60 seconds for 10 shots inclusive of reload in sitting position and 10 shots in 70 seconds fired prone rapid fire with a reload.
Unless it is a special match normally "glass" is not used under 1000 yards.

4, Matches are normally 50 shot called National Match Course or 80 shot regional course and some are 100 shot regional course.
 
#7
Re: Beginner (first competition) rifle suggestions?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hummer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">First off exactly what kind of "NRA" competition are you going to be shooting. If it is conventional highpower it is fired at 100, 200, 300, 500 sometimes and 600.
<span style="color: #FF0000">
200 offhand, 300 rapids, sitting and prone, 600 prone slow fire</span>

2. It is strictly iron sights.
<span style="color: #FF0000">
Not if they have F Class</span>

3. You will need rapid fire reload capability as conventional highpower is fired in 60 seconds for 10 shots inclusive of reload in sitting position and 10 shots in 70 seconds fired prone rapid fire with a reload.

Unless it is a special match normally "glass" is not used under 1000 yards.

<span style="color: #FF0000">Unless it is F Class its irons all the way out.</span>

4, Matches are normally 50 shot called National Match Course or 80 shot regional course and some are 100 shot regional course.

<span style="color: #FF0000">Normally 40 and 80</span>

</div></div>

Not to be contrary, but.......
 
#8
Re: Beginner (first competition) rifle suggestions

Sorry 600 yards...I was shooting 400 but that wasn't NRA. Didn't realize there was a "F-class" title...but as they described the competition to me, you shoot prone with bi-pod and glass.

I was look at the tactical but since I'm a lefty thats an issue, unless they now make them in lh.

I think I'm just gonna get a used .223. Where would you guys suggest to look? I would imagine the forum but I'm afraid of getting a rifle that is pitted to hell and couldn't hit the broad side of a barn.
 
#10
Re: Beginner (first competition) rifle suggestions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: deadly0311</div><div class="ubbcode-body">running a right hand rifle left handed is far easier than running a left handed rifle left handed, once you get the hang of it
</div></div>

Wait what? That seems counter-intuitive. You are saying its easier to use a right handed rifle as a lefty versus a left handed as a lefty?

Either I'm not understanding or you know something I don't (which is possible).
 
#11
Re: Beginner (first competition) rifle suggestions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Elxx</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sorry 600 yards...I was shooting 400 but that wasn't NRA. Didn't realize there was a "F-class" title...but as they described the competition to me, you shoot prone with bi-pod and glass.

I was look at the tactical but since I'm a lefty thats an issue, unless they now make them in lh.

I think I'm just gonna get a used .223. Where would you guys suggest to look? I would imagine the forum but I'm afraid of getting a rifle that is pitted to hell and couldn't hit the broad side of a barn.
</div></div>


Sounds like mid-range F-class, and that you'll be in the TR divison.

If you're set on .223 and don't desire to have any work done to your gun, I suggest looking at the Savage model 12 LRPV. They already come in a factory HS stock that is pretty good, but the big kicker is that they come in a 1/7 twist. You'll want that for the 75 - 80 grain pills. The Remington SPS-V is a 1/12 and mine doesn't do well with 69gr SMK. I believe that their Tactical modle has a 1/9, which is alittle better, but probably will not stabilize the 80s and you'll lose some velocity with the shorter barrel.

Good luck with your matches, and have fun!
 
#13
Re: Beginner (first competition) rifle suggestions

OK now we know more with prone, glass, bipod.

I agree a right hand rifle shot left handed is a piece of cake as I have done it since 73.

I would love no end to see a right hander shooting a LH rifle in rapid fire! !! ! That would be a riot.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news as from a monetary standpoint you are not going to save that much money going to 223 as compaired to the 30.06 as bullets for it are nearly as much. There will be a savings in powder of course and primers will cost the same.
At the longer ranges the 30 cals will eat the 22 up bucking the wind better. You could also think about 260 Rem.
You are right, you don't know what you are getting with a used rifle unless you know the owner. ARs are not known for having long life peak accuracy. The Army MTU pulls barrels off every 700 rounds so they keep accuracy up. They also have a little girl that just broke all the aggregate records this past summer but she did it with a bolt gun in 260.
Rat Guns own the 200/300 yard line but the 6MMs, up own the 600 yard line.
If there is no rapid fire and for longer barrel life I would go 6BR. It holds all the records in 300 Meter International, doesn't use alot of powder and I believe Savage makes one ready to shoot. It will take up to 107 gr. bullets and if you do your part will shoot under an inch at 300 yards and buck the wind much better than the 22 bullets.
Theoretically you could start with 6BR and if it starts to open up have the barrel set back and keep on shooting it saving lots of money. I have a friend here who has done well at 600 yards with his and my other friend I saw shoot a 3" ten shot group at 600 with his.
Check out the Savage website for this.
http://www.savagearms.com/12f_class.htm
 
#14
Re: Beginner (first competition) rifle suggestions

As others have said, 600yards, prone with bipod and glass is F-class, F-TR to be exact. You have a vast selection of exactly two calibers for that type of competition: .223 Rem and .308 Win

Some have suggested a Savage rifle and I totally agree; they have some great offerings in .223 or .308. If you go for the .308, they have their FTR rifle, which is excellent.

You did not talk about ammo, I sure hope you are a handloader. In .223 you neeed to be loading 80gr bullets (1:8 or faster twist required) in .308 you need 168gr if max is 600 yards, longer bullets if you go to 1000.

Scope, forget the 10x, you will be begging for more magnigication to be competitive; look for something with a top end in the 20sX or more. Fine crosshair, not Mildot; those targets are very small.
 
#15
Re: Beginner (first competition) rifle suggestions

Hmm, ok. I'm not dead set on the .223 I was just thinking I won't be getting into handloads anytime soon. Maybe this competition is over my head. I just need to get out there and tough it out.

Sort of a side question, what would a suppressor do for me in terms of practice sessions? And can a gunsmith thread any barrel for one?
 
#16
Re: Beginner (first competition) rifle suggestions

Don't get frustrated! There's a bazillion options. I agree, just get out there and shoot something.

I think if you're not going to handload I'd go w/ 308 (assuming you want to shoot F/TR -- google the rules for the various disciplines). BH makes some pretty good ammo for 308 that I think that box-stock savage will love. Stick a decent scope on it and go see what happens...

-Slice
 
#18
Re: Beginner (first competition) rifle suggestions?

Get an RRA CMP rifle. You can play service rifle matches, and you can remove the carry handle, add a scope, and play F-Class.
It's not going to be too cheap though. Rifle is about $1150-1200, while rings and scope is entirely up to you.
 
#19
Re: Beginner (first competition) rifle suggestions?

O wow so much good information here. It's gonna take me a while to sift through it and lay out the pro's and con's specific to my situation.

Money really isn't an object (for the rifle), I just wanna earn my right to better rifles instead of being that tool that went out and bought a crusader (although god knows I wouldn't mind having one =D ).

Back to the suppressor question, can gunsmiths thread any barrel for a silencer?

Also, anyone with more input or arguments towards anything post em! God knows I can use every bit of information I can get.

***Summary***
-Looking at .223/.308 for F-class T/R
-Need rifle/gear suggestions for beginner in competitions (i.e. earning experience and skill over placing 1st or 2nd)
-Advise or stories of competition also gladly welcomed
****
 
#20
Re: Beginner (first competition) rifle suggestions?

I might be wrong but I don't think you can use a suppressor or break in F-class. Most smith's can thread any barrel but depending on the contour you might have to cut it back to get to the correct diameter to thread. Might be wrong but that is what I think.

Side note:

I would buy a nice 10FP or a 700 5R and then put good glass on it.

http://www.savagearms.com/10fp.htm

or this
http://www.remington.com/products/firear...ct_tactical.asp
 
#21
Re: Beginner (first competition) rifle suggestions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scottmilk9</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'd buy a .223 AR from a local AZ manufacturer. You can do long range precision, f-class and 3 gun with the same rifle. </div></div>

*Clears throat*
EEEEEAAAHHHEEEEMMMM! See Above ^
laugh.gif


-Pat
 
#22
Re: Beginner (first competition) rifle suggestions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: He_Shoot_Me</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scottmilk9</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'd buy a .223 AR from a local AZ manufacturer. You can do long range precision, f-class and 3 gun with the same rifle. </div></div>

*Clears throat*
EEEEEAAAHHHEEEEMMMM! See Above ^
laugh.gif


-Pat

</div></div>

EEEEAAAAAAHHHHHEEEEEMMMMMM!

Seriously, Scottmilk9 (Specialized Dynamics) <span style="text-decoration: line-through">would be </span>is the guy I call for AR15's. If you decide an AR platform in 223 is the way you want to go, you owe it to yourself to at least give him a call.
 
#23
Re: Beginner (first competition) rifle suggestions

I don't think I want to go the AR route. It's a logical idea, but for some reason I just can't get excited about them.

Down the road I may change my mind. For now, I'm focused on a bolt. Slow and steady shooting...might help with my flinching...that and dry firing.

Nuttshooter said:
I might be wrong but I don't think you can use a suppressor or break in F-class. Most smith's can thread any barrel but depending on the contour you might have to cut it back to get to the correct diameter to thread. Might be wrong but that is what I think.
I'm thinking just to get a suppressor for practice. Although all the steps to getting a suppressor might be just too much. That and what officer would sign off on a 21 year old, ha.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
#24
Re: Beginner (first competition) rifle suggestions

On a serious note, i appreciate people recommending me, but once you shoot an AR and learn the gun, its hard to put it down, its so much more versatile than any other gun out there. As far as accuracy goes, i get .5 to .75 MOA out to 500yards with my 18" rifles.

If your dead set on a bolt gun, go to GA Precision, George and his guys build the best bolt guns out there.

A suppressor and a break are illegal for F-class, if your shooting for score. I shoot with my suppressor to practice wind calling. All smiths can thread your barrel for what you want.

Why wouldn't the sheriff sign off on your paperwork? age has nothing to do with it. Look into the group buy section, AAC group buy is almost at an end.
 
#25
Re: Beginner (first competition) rifle suggestions

My experience has been similar to Scott's with AR's.
Accurate: as good as many bolts, in my experience.
Versatile; switch uppers between .204 up to 6.5 Grendel.
Reliable; reliable functioning.
Affable; user friendly requiring no special skills.
Available; many makers.
Able; shoot good without need for bedding, etc.
 
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