beginner help on 260, ladder test

[sch2046]

I am confused on a few things and yes, I read the great threads on reloading. I did my ladder test and came up with some good loads using h4350, berger 140 hybrids. My best horizontal groups came in with 42.6-43.1, no preasure signs. I ran up to 43.7 with no preasure signs. I am running these at mag length in an AW mag. my 300 yrd groups were not great. 1. Now, do I start playing with seating depth to group? I also see some guys running as high as 44 grains of h4350 for velocity. 2. How can I get more velocity and still group, or am I stuck with the velocity of my ladder test due to my barrels harmonics?
Thanks in advance, hand loading is getting frustrating for me.

 

[DamnYuppie]

Re: beginner help on 260, ladder test

I always did the 300-400 yard ladder test. Then loaded up several rounds at each charge weight that was within a node and shot them at 300/400 to see which one did the best. Usually one or two would be best so I would take those and play with the seating depth to figure out groups at 100.

Also I wouldn't worry about velocity at all at to be honest. I always look for the one that shoots the best and only get velocity after so I can use it to generate "try" dope. You are chasing consistency/accuracy not velocity, but that is just one mans opinion.

 

[Bob 964]

Re: beginner help on 260, ladder test

"My best horizontal groups came in with 42.6-43.1, no preasure signs."

Did you mean to say "vertical" instead of "horizontal"? When doing a ladder test, one is looking for a 3-shot node that has the least vertical dispersion.

 

[TxShooter63]

Re: beginner help on 260, ladder test

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DamnYuppie</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Also I wouldn't worry about velocity at all at to be honest. I always look for the one that shoots the best and only get velocity after so I can use it to generate "try" dope. You are chasing consistency/accuracy not velocity, but that is just one mans opinion. </div></div>

Guys I don't mean to offend anyone but I see alot of people running .260's at around 2700 fps. The .260 caliber is superior ballistically to many other rounds for two reasons. The first is there are some very good bullets available like the Berger 140VLD Hybrid, with a BC of .618. The second is that you can get this round up above 2800 fps pretty easily. The truth is that if you are going to run a .260 at much lower velocities you aren't going to gain enough ballistically to cover the increased cost of the brass and bullets over a .308.

For years people jumped onto the .308 bandwagon without really understanding the limitations of the round and now the 6.5/.260 is the new/hot round of choice. It is an incredible caliber with the right bullet and velocity but at lower velocities you really can't justify the additional cost. At 2830-2900fps with the right bullet, the .260 has virtually the same ballistics as a .300WM with 35% less powder!

If your going to buy a sports car, drive it like a sports car! Just my humble opion and worth what you paid for it.....

 

[mjh30]

Re: beginner help on 260, ladder test

Sch2046, imho its imperative to have a good base seating depth before staring any ladder tests. Especially if you are using a new barrel or bullet.

 

[sch2046]

Re: beginner help on 260, ladder test

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bob 964</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"My best horizontal groups came in with 42.6-43.1, no preasure signs."

Did you mean to say "vertical" instead of "horizontal"? When doing a ladder test, one is looking for a 3-shot node that has the least vertical dispersion. </div></div>
Sorry about that, yes my best horizontal group means my group with the least dispersion vertically.

 

[DamnYuppie]

Re: beginner help on 260, ladder test

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TxShooter63</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DamnYuppie</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Also I wouldn't worry about velocity at all at to be honest. I always look for the one that shoots the best and only get velocity after so I can use it to generate "try" dope. You are chasing consistency/accuracy not velocity, but that is just one mans opinion. </div></div>

Guys I don't mean to offend anyone but I see alot of people running .260's at around 2700 fps. The .260 caliber is superior ballistically to many other rounds for two reasons. The first is there are some very good bullets available like the Berger 140VLD Hybrid, with a BC of .618. The second is that you can get this round up above 2800 fps pretty easily. The truth is that if you are going to run a .260 at much lower velocities you aren't going to gain enough ballistically to cover the increased cost of the brass and bullets over a .308.

For years people jumped onto the .308 bandwagon without really understanding the limitations of the round and now the 6.5/.260 is the new/hot round of choice. It is an incredible caliber with the right bullet and velocity but at lower velocities you really can't justify the additional cost. At 2830-2900fps with the right bullet, the .260 has virtually the same ballistics as a .300WM with 35% less powder!

If your going to buy a sports car, drive it like a sports car! Just my humble opion and worth what you paid for it..... </div></div>

I don't disagree with you there. I was assuming, based on the charge weights he gave, that he would be around 2800fps. My comment was more along the lines of "don't chase the fastest one, chase the most accurate one". Meaning if he has two loads of acceptable accuracy with the most accurate one being slower he should still take that one as long as the speed is acceptable as mentioned previously.

 

[leadbullet]

Re: beginner help on 260, ladder test

the accuracy in my 260 was pretty decent until I started pushing the 140-142 at 2850 FPS accuracy is phenomenal at 1000-1250 yds but the worse at 100 yds.
push your 140's a little more and see what happens for you.

 

[sch2046]

Re: beginner help on 260, ladder test

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mjh</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sch2046, imho its imperative to have a good base seating depth before staring any ladder tests. Especially if you are using a new barrel or bullet. </div></div>
This was my dilema too, at 100 yards, unless I am really making them jump, my groups are all very tight, .75 or less. It isnt until I get to some distance that they really start to separate. I wanted to see which charge worked the best then try to tighten up the groups with seating depth? Am I doing this backwards. Also regarding the comment on speed for the 260. This was also my question as I was getting 2750 fps. My buddy was getting 2850. Which is why I am curious about powder charge and accuracy. If i am out of my node at 43.7 but I can push the bullet that much faster, does it make sense to run them as fast as I can without any concerns about the harmonics of my barrel.(I hope this makes sense, it did as I typed it.)

 

[sch2046]

Re: beginner help on 260, ladder test

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mjh</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sch2046, imho its imperative to have a good base seating depth before staring any ladder tests. Especially if you are using a new barrel or bullet. </div></div>

I should note, I used a chamber gauge to figure out what my max depth was and knowing bergers dont like to jump much, came up with my starting seating depth. It is a start. Before I got all my reloading items, I used Southwests 139 scenars, and they shot great, grouped well and held great accuracy past 1000 yrds for me too. My shooting partner runs the Bergers and we were trying to get our data to match as close as possible for matches. After this ladder test, we are very close.

 

[mjh30]

Re: beginner help on 260, ladder test

Sch2046, what barrel lenght are you running, 2750 seems pretty slow for 43.7 and why the change to the new Berger Hybrids if the Scenars were working, without the obvious better bc. Also it seems from several postings that the new hybrids jump well. As for using a chamber gauge to determine seating depth, I was under the impression that a chamber gauge such as Sinclars would give you the true length of your rifles hamber so you could trim cases more effiecently, or have you a chamber cast. The Hornady LNL OAL Gauge and Bullet comparaor will give you fairly accurate seating depths if your not already using one.

 

[sch2046]

Re: beginner help on 260, ladder test

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mjh</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sch2046, what barrel lenght are you running, 2750 seems pretty slow for 43.7 and why the change to the new Berger Hybrids if the Scenars were working, without the obvious better bc. Also it seems from several postings that the new hybrids jump well. As for using a chamber gauge to determine seating depth, I was under the impression that a chamber gauge such as Sinclars would give you the true length of your rifles hamber so you could trim cases more effiecently, or have you a chamber cast. The Hornady LNL OAL Gauge and Bullet comparaor will give you fairly accurate seating depths if your not already using one. </div></div>
I am getting 2750 with 42.6 of H4350, 43.7 was the hottest load I used in my ladder test. I am switching to the Bergers because of the BC and my partner uses them in his 260 (set up very similar to mine) with a 26 in Bartlein Barrel. We are trying to get our data to be close and with the Lapuas vs the Bergers, at distance 1000, he was 8.1 or .2 and I am at 8.6 or .7. I am using the Hornady oal gauge, my fault for mis labeling the tool. Mine are jumping but not much.
I am more concerned with how can I get more velocity and keep accuracy. I dont want to be out of my node, which I am at 43.7. I just keep seeing people or hearing people talking about getting more velocity but dont really seem to be worried about the node etc.

 

[TxShooter63]

Re: beginner help on 260, ladder test

I found the Berger VLD Hybrids to be forgiving of powder load and COL. Once I get near the velocity I am looking for, I start changing seating depth to fine tune the velocity and accuracy. It is a bit time consuming but the results are worth the effort.
If you read the ".260 only" thread, you will see guys with nearly identical loads getting velocities that are 100 fps apart. There are so many variables in the way the chamber's are reamed and how each barrel effects velocity and stability that it is tough to offer specific advice to someone trying to do load development. I will say that H4831 has proved to be a much better powder for me than H4350. My ES is under 5fps and my competition rifle shoots sub 1/4" groups. The point of all this is that I had similar issues as yours until I changed powder and then everything instantly clicked.

 

[sch2046]

Re: beginner help on 260, ladder test

thanks everyone for the help and advice. Back to the range.
Sean