Beginner PRS Set-Up and advice on what NOT to buy yet

[white_rushin]

Hello everyone,

I was referred to this awesome site by a few folks from CalGuns.net. I am building a long-range rifle and wanted opinions on what I have so far, what will hold me back, what not to buy moving forward, and general feedback. I know I’m going into the lions den here so hit me with whatever you got. I am tailoring this to be a PRS rifle that I can take to local matches in the San Diego/OC area.

I’ll note that every piece of equipment was bought used as I wanted to select quality gear but keep it reasonably affordable as I know I’ll likely change a few things the future. So far this is what I have:

-Tikka CTR 20” 308 barreled action with Leupold Mark 4 20MOA rail installed

(I felt Tikka was a great factory option. I know .308 is considered an outdated caliber, but from what I’ve listened to on the Vortex podcast it makes for a great training platform for me to learn fundamentals. Can always switch for a proof barrel in the future)

-KRG X-Ray Chassis
(hard to beat for the price, especially used)

-Primary Arms GLX 4-16x Mil-Dot Reticle
(I wanted something to start with that had at least Philippines glass and learn fundamentals but am now realizing the X-Mas Tree reticles are all the rage now)

-Vortex Pro 1” high 30mm rings
(Seem like 90% of the PMRs for 40% of the cost)

How do you think this basic set-up will fair? I’m about $1500 in so far with all the above. I will be starting small with local matches where I know I’ll learn how to drive the gun, manage recoil, etc.

Next is where I also need your help, as I want some input on what NOT to buy in the immediate. What do you recommend I prioritize funds towards? This is what I have identified as potential future purchases:

-Ammo: FGMM, Hornady Whitetail, Hornady Match, Nosler, etc
(How many rounds to start?)

-Bipod: Harris S-BRM
(Hoping to find one used for ~$80)

Bag: Armageddon Game Changer?
(I have also seen one called Cole-Tac Trap Bag that looks similar that I can get for $50 on midway right now)

RangeFinder: Vortex Impact 1000 refurbished on AA Optics

Miscellaneous: KRG arca rails, spigots, weights, etc

Are there any items that you reccomend I switch out on this list or add?

I realize that I made a few choices that will keep me from being ultra-competitive, but I wanted to jump in and just start as I am a big believer in Ryan Cleckner’s philosophies.

Thanks all!

 

[KnowNothing256]

A heavy Schmedium GC is a great choice. If you decide you want a different bag later, the resale value on it it’s great as well.

An ARCA rail is something you’ll want at some point if you go far enough down the rabbit hole, and ARCA adapters for any forend accessories that would ride on it (bipod, tripod, gamer plate, etc.). However, not sure you need it right out of the gate.

I’ll think of more stuff I’m sure

 

[white_rushin]

A heavy Schmedium GC is a great choice. If you decide you want a different bag later, the resale value on it it’s great as well.

An ARCA rail is something you’ll want at some point if you go far enough down the rabbit hole, and ARCA adapters for any forend accessories that would ride on it (bipod, tripod, gamer plate, etc.). However, not sure you need it right out of the gate.

I’ll think of more stuff I’m sure

Thanks for the input, all the different sizing, canvas types, weights of the game changer really confuse me. So a small-mid yet heavy game changer is the ideal all in one bag?

Do you or any other folks know what type of deals I can expect for Black Friday sales on the remaining equipment to get? If there’s anything spectacular then I would target those first. For instance I’ll likely try to get a few metal MDT mags since they get discounted so much

 

[KnowNothing256]

Oh, and sorry, you’re asking what your priorities should be. Bag and a bipod are a must, I would say. If you’re choosing between the two, a bag is more important, esp since it doesn’t require any attachment accessories. It’s just more flexible, so you can get by without a bipod for awhile.

 

[white_rushin]

Oh, and sorry, you’re asking what your priorities should be. Bag and a bipod are a must, I would say. If you’re choosing between the two, a bag is more important, esp since it doesn’t require any attachment accessories. It’s just more flexible, so you can get by without a bipod for awhile.

Thanks, I do have a magpul bipod on my RECCE build that I could use for the time being as well

 

[KnowNothing256]

Thanks for the input, all the different sizing, canvas types, weights of the game changer really confuse me. So a small-mid yet heavy game changer is the ideal all in one bag?

Do you or any other folks know what type of deals I can expect for Black Friday sales on the remaining equipment to get? If there’s anything spectacular then I would target those first. For instance I’ll likely try to get a few metal MDT mags since they get discounted so much

Heavy sand Schmedium, it’s a specific size and fill. Ideal is in the eye of the beholder, but many folks feel it’s ideal so it’s a great place to stay for you. You can try others if folks at your comps will let you borrow, as they almost always will.

ETA: also, get the waxed canvas. It’s better.

 

[The4GunGuy]

Nice post white_rushin. So I won't go over the rifle and the optic because you've made that decision, which isn't necessarily a bad one, but one that you will quickly realize will impede your ability to spot your hits, which is very important in the PRS game. The recoil of the .308 will take you off of the target every shot and you'll spend time reacquiring it for the next shot. Not saying this is bad for you starting out, but I ran a 6.5 Creedmoor and am now going to a 6 BRA because of what I said above. From an optic standpoint, that scope should serve you "OK" for the first year. The reality is that we rarely really go beyond 16x in a match and I spend most of my time at around 14x (maybe up to 20 at 800+ now that I'm shooting the lesser recoil BRA).

As far as the other items, I see you are going with factory ammo, so no reloading needs at this time. I think you're smart here. See if you're going to like the sport and when you're committed to it, then perhaps you can get into reloading. If you want to be competitive (top 20% let's say) you'll most likely move to reloading, but that's a whole other rabbit hole and a whole other post!

Bipod: Harris bipod is good for now or a Atlas. DON'T spend $600 on a bipod at least not yet. You'll find that the amount you will actually use a bipod in stages will be minimal...Oh, you may start off using one, but you'll see how those pros shoot the stages and you'll learn that a bipod can help you but it can also hurt you. Spend money on a good bag.

Bag: Game changer is a good bag. Start with that and watch what the pros use, then you can make informed decisions on your next and hopefully last bag. MY mistake was buying every slick/cool bag I THOUGHT I would use. I'm now trying to get down to ONE main bag and a secondary bag depending on specific stage conditions.

Rangefinder: Not sure about the Vortex. A crappy rangefinder or one that doesn't reach out to say 900 yards does you no good and will be a waste of money. I just got a Sig Sauer Kilo5 and love it so far. I had the Vortex Ranger 1800 and it was 'good' but past 700 yds it began to be questionable. Others will have range finders at the match and for practice, they generally have pretty accurate distances to their targets. If they don't, ask them if they can validate their ranges for you.

Rails: I'm an ARCA fan. They are simple to mount things to and if you get a chassis like I use (MDT ACC), you could land an aircraft on the ARCA rail it's so long. But, again see what will work for you.

Ballistics Calculator: You didn't mention this one. You can start with something on your phone like Strelock Pro, which does a great job for very little price. Then, you can go to something like a Kestrel. Again, if you go Kestrel, go all the way to the 5700 Elite with AB. Why? Because if you DO decide to reload, you'll have what you need for your DOPE and truing sessions. This also goes back to the rangefinder. I can sync my Kilo5 up to my Kestrel and simple range each target and the Kestrel picks up the range. You don't need to get that fancy, but it's nice to know you can.

Spotting optic: YOU have to decide on what you want to spend and what you need. I'm using a $600 pair of Bushnell Forge binoculars for use at the match and I'll put them up against anything below $2,000 including my old pair of Meopta MeoStars. They are NOT Swaro's or Leica's, but I can see impacts during the match out to 1,000 yards and I can see trace when I'm behind a shooter. I also have an Athlon Ares spotting scope for practice and to REALLY see my impacts out to 1,000 yds for truing my DOPE. Others might say, well just buy a $1600 pair of binoculars and they might be right, but I like MY setup for ME.

Other things to consider:
- extra magazines and a belt attached mag pouch for when you forget to add 4 rounds after your last stage and you run out during your current stage.
- A stage/match saver that attaches to your stock/chassis so you have 2 extra rounds for when you forget to put that magazine in your belt pouch so you can swap mags and/or you need one last round in a real hurry.
- scope cover...I don't like flip ups because invariably I either forget to flip them up (see this EVERY match from a shooter) or, I have to place the rifle and scope in a very narrow slot to shoot out of and they just get in the way. Get a bikini type cover and leave it off...Trust me, I run a Zero Compromise scope and I leave my cover off the entire match...It's one less thing to worry or think about.
- muzzle brake...If you're gonna run that .308 make sure you have a good muzzle brake on that barrel, it'll lessen the recoil a bit anyway.
- See which ammo is going to shoot the best out of that rifle. Just picking one won't do. I'd start with what you can get of course, but try 3 - 4 different brands and see what your rifle likes...It can make a big difference.

Finally. Shoot 5 matches before you change ANYTHING. Yes, 5 matches. WATCH the pros, they'll show you a lot and you'll see how minimalistic they are when they compete. TAKE PICTURES AND VIDEO when you can at the match. Not of you, of the pros. see what they use. see how they have things configured. Pictures with help a ton and video of them shooting a stage will help you understand how to do it better.

Man I hope this helps. I'm sure I've left a ton off but hopefully this will get you started. Good luck and in the beginning...HAVE FUN AND LEARN!! You can see a lot of what I've talked about here on my YouTube channel https://www.youtube.com/c/The3GunGuy/videos.

 

[KnowNothing256]

I forgot a rear bag; I have a little one from TAB Gear that’s ultralight so I can take it hunting too, but basically it’s something you can toss down in a pinch or tight space, or hold under the butt if you’re allowed to in the prone. This would maybe be the secondary bag that @The4GunGuy mentioned.

 

[white_rushin]

@The4GunGuy I would quote your whole message but I’d just be creating a wall of text! Thanks for all of your input, it was tremendously valuable and thorough!

You’re definitely right regarding my caliber and scope. If I do pursue PRS to the fullest extent I have no doubt I’ll eventually replace the .308 barrel with a lower recoiling caliber. For the time being I want to experiment with this as it’s my first larger caliber firearm beyond .223. I’ll certainly invest in a muzzle brake to mitigate the recoil as much as I can.

Similarly I bought the 4-16x since I heard it will serve me well out to 1K yards and that’s my goal in the immediate. I thought it was better to go with better glass clarity on this compared to a 5-25x Strike Eagle, but time will tell for that.

Great notes on all the other pieces of equipment too. I think my next purchase(s) will be a game changer bag and 2-3 AICS magazines that I’ll target during Black Friday sales if I can score them.

Do most folks think the Atlas is worth the extra $150-200 over the Harris? I’m not crossing it off the list but with the ammo I could spend in it’s place to train it’s certainly hard to justify.

I’ll be sure to look up options for rangefinders, spotting options, and the other items you mentioned. I have a chinesium set of binos that I got essentially for free from an Amazon pricing error that have surprisingly decent clarity that I’ll use in the meantime. Same with the belt, already have a battle belt that I can switch out some larger Esstac pouches for. Strelok also looks like a great option for BC

Are there any .308 brakes that folks recommend to look out for on BF? Looking for a self-timing option that ideally stays under $100.

Thanks for all the fantastic input so far.

EDIT: also subbed to your channel!

 

[The4GunGuy]

@The4GunGuy I would quote your whole message but I’d just be creating a wall of text! Thanks for all of your input, it was tremendously valuable and thorough!

You’re definitely right regarding my caliber and scope. If I do pursue PRS to the fullest extent I have no doubt I’ll eventually replace the .308 barrel with a lower recoiling caliber. For the time being I want to experiment with this as it’s my first larger caliber firearm beyond .223. I’ll certainly invest in a muzzle brake to mitigate the recoil as much as I can.

Similarly I bought the 4-16x since I heard it will serve me well out to 1K yards and that’s my goal in the immediate. I thought it was better to go with better glass clarity on this compared to a 5-25x Strike Eagle, but time will tell for that.

Great notes on all the other pieces of equipment too. I think my next purchase(s) will be a game changer bag and 2-3 AICS magazines that I’ll target during Black Friday sales if I can score them.

Do most folks think the Atlas is worth the extra $150-200 over the Harris? I’m not crossing it off the list but with the ammo I could spend in it’s place to train it’s certainly hard to justify.

I’ll be sure to look up options for rangefinders, spotting options, and the other items you mentioned. I have a chinesium set of binos that I got essentially for free from an Amazon pricing error that have surprisingly decent clarity that I’ll use in the meantime. Same with the belt, already have a battle belt that I can switch out some larger Esstac pouches for. Strelok also looks like a great option for BC

Are there any .308 brakes that folks recommend to look out for on BF? Looking for a self-timing option that ideally stays under $100.

Thanks for all the fantastic input so far.

EDIT: also subbed to your channel!

Hey thanks for the sub WR! Harris will suit you just fine. I really liked my Area419 Sidewinder MB (https://www.area419.com/product/sidewinder/) as it was a TRUE self timing brake and so easy to get on and off for cleaning. Again, just my .02 but it's twice what you want to spend. Bino's...Hey, if the Chinese pair do it for you then run with them. I always say, spend the money on those things that are going to get the lead on the steel. The other stuff might be needed, but don't "keep up with the Jones's" on it. Love Strelok Pro. You can ask others for what they're getting for wind or, you can buy a weather flow to sync up with your Strelok Pro which is what I did for about a year and it worked great (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B011WT29HO/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_D69FA2AE9Y4EPJBWC47Z?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1)

 

[KnowNothing256]

Agreed that rangefinders and ballistic toys aren’t needed at first. I have an Atlas, and I’d say go with the Harris. Pros prefer it because it deploys lightning fast and is still solid; a CkyePod has more advantages but is absurdly expensive so I don’t own one. Maybe someday…

I think you have a good enough list to go get started and see if you actually love the game. Only other thing that comes to mind is some sort of DOPE cheat sheet, can be as simple as a Excel sheet you print out and tape to your stock. No need for fancy on-scope card holders or whatever. The QB-style arm boards are also a solid way to go.

 

[The4GunGuy]

Agreed that rangefinders and ballistic toys aren’t needed at first. I have an Atlas, and I’d say go with the Harris. Pros prefer it because it deploys lightning fast and is still solid; a CkyePod has more advantages but is absurdly expensive so I don’t own one. Maybe someday…

I think you have a good enough list to go get started and see if you actually love the game. Only other thing that comes to mind is some sort of DOPE cheat sheet, can be as simple as a Excel sheet you print out and tape to your stock. No need for fancy on-scope card holders or whatever. The QB-style arm boards are also a solid way to go.

agreed knownothing. I use a cheap Amazon coaches wrist band with plastic cards and a wax pencil and it works great for me.

 

[white_rushin]

Hey thanks for the sub WR! Harris will suit you just fine. I really liked my Area419 Sidewinder MB (https://www.area419.com/product/sidewinder/) as it was a TRUE self timing brake and so easy to get on and off for cleaning. Again, just my .02 but it's twice what you want to spend. Bino's...Hey, if the Chinese pair do it for you then run with them. I always say, spend the money on those things that are going to get the lead on the steel. The other stuff might be needed, but don't "keep up with the Jones's" on it. Love Strelok Pro. You can ask others for what they're getting for wind or, you can buy a weather flow to sync up with your Strelok Pro which is what I did for about a year and it worked great (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B011WT29HO/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_D69FA2AE9Y4EPJBWC47Z?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1)

Good call, I hear a lot about Area 419. Similarly about APA and Patriot Valley. It sounds like if I stick with one of those three I should be fine. What would be the downside of going with a cheaper brake like Dead Air that also allows for a Keymo mount? What do the 3-4 ports on a 419 brake do that the 3 ports on the dead air don’t? Genuinely asking

And for sure, these binos are just a temporary solution but I figured I’d run them until I can’t stand it anymore while I get the other essentials

 

[white_rushin]

Agreed that rangefinders and ballistic toys aren’t needed at first. I have an Atlas, and I’d say go with the Harris. Pros prefer it because it deploys lightning fast and is still solid; a CkyePod has more advantages but is absurdly expensive so I don’t own one. Maybe someday…

I think you have a good enough list to go get started and see if you actually love the game. Only other thing that comes to mind is some sort of DOPE cheat sheet, can be as simple as a Excel sheet you print out and tape to your stock. No need for fancy on-scope card holders or whatever. The QB-style arm boards are also a solid way to go.

Thanks for the input, sounds like the Harris it is! Do most folks stick with 6-9” deployment?

good call on the dope sheet. I see some people put their dope on the inside of their butler flip up cap. Is that good enough or why do folks go with the QB style band

 

[KnowNothing256]

Thanks for the input, sounds like the Harris it is! Do most folks stick with 6-9” deployment?

good call on the dope sheet. I see some people put their dope on the inside of their butler flip up cap. Is that good enough or why do folks go with the QB style band

You can get away with anything, but those time limits will spike your adrenaline pretty hard, so it's good to have bigger text. Plus scope caps get knocked around, etc. I dunno, I have good eyes and I'd rather have something big and color-coded, you want to spend no more than 2 seconds pulling your dope off of whatever tool you're using, I'd say.

In PRS the distances are known, so many people have a white arm board or card mounted to the scope and just write that stage's dope on it in wax pencil; that way you get big numbers, and only the ones you need. The downside is that you won't get the training experience of using your whole dope sheet.

Play around with it, see what you like best.

 

[The4GunGuy]

Thanks for the input, sounds like the Harris it is! Do most folks stick with 6-9” deployment?

good call on the dope sheet. I see some people put their dope on the inside of their butler flip up cap. Is that good enough or why do folks go with the QB style band

Good call, I hear a lot about Area 419. Similarly about APA and Patriot Valley. It sounds like if I stick with one of those three I should be fine. What would be the downside of going with a cheaper brake like Dead Air that also allows for a Keymo mount? What do the 3-4 ports on a 419 brake do that the 3 ports on the dead air don’t? Genuinely asking

And for sure, these binos are just a temporary solution but I figured I’d run them until I can’t stand it anymore while I get the other essentials

So watch THIS video on the keymod mount:
Then watch THIS video on the Area419 Sidewinder:
I did a video on the Sidewinder vs. the APA Fat Bastard and you'll also see the difference between those two:

Trust me, the Sidewinder is the EASIEST brake you'll ever install. The others? You'll be getting super pi55ed off trying to get them "timed" properly. IMHO, the Area419 Sidewinder is the ONLY TRUE self-timing brake. If you don't mind the frustration of the others (but after you clean it a few times and have to reinstall it you'll know what I mean by frustration) then go for it. From a true recoil standpoint, they probably all (at least in this class we're looking at) provide good recoil mitigation.

 

[white_rushin]

Trust me, the Sidewinder is the EASIEST brake you'll ever install. The others? You'll be getting super pi55ed off trying to get them "timed" properly. IMHO, the Area419 Sidewinder is the ONLY TRUE self-timing brake. If you don't mind the frustration of the others (but after you clean it a few times and have to reinstall it you'll know what I mean by frustration) then go for it. From a true recoil standpoint, they probably all (at least in this class we're looking at) provide good recoil mitigation.

Awesome, thanks for the links, I’m all about watching these so I’ll report back once I do. From a convenience standpoint that makes a lot of sense. On my semi-auto builds I’ve typically just installed them and left them without cleaning. From a PRS standpoint it sounds like folks clean their brakes more frequently

 

[white_rushin]

Can anyone also provide feedback on this Cole-Tac Trap Bag?

Trap Bag | Cole-TAC Outdoor Gear

Buy Trap Bag | Non-slip fabric provides a flat, smooth surface | Endless uses | Rifle support bag | Shooting bag | Shooting rest

www.cole-tac.com

It looks very versatile and around half the price of the game changer. I can see it being useful as a front and rear bag (from the feedback I’ve seen) as well as barricades.

what would be the downside of picking this?

 

[CK1.0]

Good start.

But, you didn't mention one of the most important things: trigger. Order a Yo Dave spring immediately (think that's the best option for Tikka's IIRC). Nice PRS rifles have TT Diamonds or Bix n' Andy's in them and are measured using single digits in ounces, not pounds.

IMO priorities are: bipod + bag, then trigger, weights + ammo.

Spotting your splash/impacts is the whole damn thing, if you can't do that fuck everything else.

A Harris BRM-S + Pod-Loc is enough bipod for about 95% of us, same goes with a Schmedium.

Do not put off weights because of what they cost vs what you think they should cost: get them. Pound for pound, dollar for dollar (pun intended) the weights will help your cause the most, don't sleep on the weight thing. The average decent PRS rifle weighs ~22lbs? and the balance point is ~3" in front of the magazine for a reason.

Get as much ammo as you can afford, 1000 rounds or more if you can swing it. If the only way to do that is to learn to reload, great, good ammo is a huge part of this. You don't need Gucci shit right away, you need trigger time, save the good stuff for later when you know what you're doing.

If budget is a problem, put all your loot towards ammo and get by with a knock-off Harris and you can DIY/MacGuyver a bag and weights until you find the extra scratch...

Welcome.

 

[DownhillFromHere]

Can anyone also provide feedback on this Cole-Tac Trap Bag?

View attachment 7731047

Trap Bag | Cole-TAC Outdoor Gear

Buy Trap Bag | Non-slip fabric provides a flat, smooth surface | Endless uses | Rifle support bag | Shooting bag | Shooting rest

www.cole-tac.com

It looks very versatile and around half the price of the game changer. I can see it being useful as a front and rear bag (from the feedback I’ve seen) as well as barricades.

what would be the downside of picking this?

I'd strongly suggest a Game Changer (GC) over this. I have an earlier version of the bag with its "backbone" setup and find that the GC with my Gray Ops mini-plate is more versatile (and yes, more expensive). Cole-TAC makes good stuff and supports the sport, but, at this stage of your journey, there are better choices.

Earlier posts suggest the Game Changer "Shmedium" with heavy sand fill. While I don't dispute the rationale behind it - I've played with one enough to choose - I prefer the standard GC with whatever its default fill was when I got it three+ years ago. While one of my buddies loves his waxed Schmedium, at least one other got one and quickly sold it because the wax surface held too much dirt for him.

It comes down to individual preference. You're going to try different bits of gear. Some you'll keep. Others you'll sell. I will say this: for me, rifles have come and gone over the four years since I started this silliness, but the GC is still my go-to for at least 95% of rear-support duties, despite my having several bags now (two purchased, others off prize tables, plus the ones I've borrowed to try and returned).

Regarding bipods: If you buy the Harris, you should also plan to buy a Pod-Loc and an RRS HC-Pro ARCA clamp for it. The Pod-Loc is almost a requirement - just trust me on that. The Harris's puny, pitiful little sling stud mount is practically useless for any serious work; the RRS clamp is expensive but worth it. Bottom line is, with the Pod-Loc and the RRS clamp, the Harris becomes a solid, capable piece of kit despite what the Harris-haters say (in its stock form, yeah, it's pretty danged floppy).

I have that Harris setup and use it in matches when I need a narrow footprint (compared to Atlas) or fast deployment or folding of the legs. With that said, I use an Atlas BT65-NC bipod fitted with an RRS BTC-Pro ARCA clamp over 90% of the time. If you compare the prices of the Atlas vs the Harris configured as described, the Harris is about $100 less the lasttime I looked.

Regarding ballistic calculators and Kestrels: I've had a full-dress Kestrel 5700 - Applied Ballistics and all the bells & whistles - and I came back to Strelok Pro. I do have a bare-bones Kestrel 5000 I got cheap on an open-box deal, but, after 4 years of shooting matches, I submit that you can get adequate weather info from a nearby NOA weather station. You do have to learn to convert the NOA barometric pressure to station pressure (based on altitude) but that's another tale.

Enough for now. There are quite a few threads here about gear and preparation for competition. Welcome to wonderland - there's a gold mine of info here. You'll learn which of the denizens here are worth paying attention to and which aren't - how to separate the nuggets from the bs, to mix a couple of similes.

 

[Sheldon N]

Hello everyone,

I was referred to this awesome site by a few folks from CalGuns.net. I am building a long-range rifle and wanted opinions on what I have so far, what will hold me back, what not to buy moving forward, and general feedback.

Great perspective starting out. Here's some quick reactions and tips (coming from someone who competes a lot).

• Your gear starting out is fine, just make sure the Primary Arms scope tracks properly and holds zero. Don't sweat the reticle.
• Agree with the recommendation for Harris + Pod Lock + RRS clamp mount. I still have one of those and it works fine, despite there being nicer bipods. My preferred bipod is an Atlas CAL with RRS clamp, but that's more expensive.
• Strong recommendation for an Armageddon Gear game changer over any other bag. Either waxed canvas full size heavy fill (plastic beads) or schmedium waxed canvas heavy fill (sand). Full size w/ heavy plastic fill is more do-it-all flexible, schmedium is a bit more stable. I shoot most all my matches with just a schmedium.
• Arca rail is very helpful long run, pretty much everyone uses them. Arca combined with the RRS clamp opens the door to a lot more flexibility.
• Definitely get a good muzzle brake, APA Little or Fat Bastard (Gen III), Area 419 are both good. The 5 port Fat Bastard Gen III is best at overall recoil reduction, which is the goal behind a brake. Design makes a big difference in effectiveness - so don't just buy a cheap one. I've got a brand new APA Gen III little bastard in 30 cal stainless I'd sell if you're interested.
• You'll eventually want to add weight to the gun if you get serious, but no harm starting out without then adding later - you'll appreciate it more.
• I say skip the rangefinder, unless you need it outside of matches. At competitions it's almost always known distance, and everyone has rangefinders to double check.
• Run your dope on a phone app, or you can even use paper. Just make sure to incorporate local environmentals. With a phone app you can input Density Altitude (anyone at the match with a Kestrel can give that to you) or you can look up weather and run in an online calculator. Write your dope on a wrist coach with a grease pencil. You'll need a Kestrel eventually but I shot for well over a year without one when starting out.

Big issue is ammo. I can't really imagine shooting factory ammo due to the cost and changing supply. Pretty much everyone in the sport reloads. If you're not there yet, maybe buy 500 to 1000 rounds of factory ammo to get started, but I would encourage you to think about reloading, esp living in CA. Something basic like an RCBS Rockchucker kit could get you started out and learning.

 

[KnowNothing256]

Ooo, I missed that you live in CA. Yeah, get some factory ammo to start, keep the brass, and start reloading. You can worry about getting Peterson/Lapua brass later, once-fired in your own rifle is a nice way to start the reloading process. Trying to find components in the drought we're in isn't so much a nice way, but if you can load up on some factory and start keeping an eye out for components, you'll be on your way.

If you want advice on where to start reloading, start a separate thread for sure haha

 

[white_rushin]

Good start.

But, you didn't mention one of the most important things: trigger. Order a Yo Dave spring immediately (think that's the best option for Tikka's IIRC). Nice PRS rifles have TT Diamonds or Bix n' Andy's in them and are measured using single digits in ounces, not pounds.

IMO priorities are: bipod + bag, then trigger, weights + ammo.

Thanks for the advice. Fortunately the previous owner of the tikka had it installed in an MPA chassis which I couldn’t afford at the time. But he did install the yo Dave spring which I have in there. Super light pull which is great to see!

A Harris BRM-S + Pod-Loc is enough bipod for about 95% of us, same goes with a Schmedium.

Noted, I’ll go with the S-BRM, pod loc, and a clamp of some sort!

Do not put off weights because of what they cost vs what you think they should cost: get them. Pound for pound, dollar for dollar (pun intended) the weights will help your cause the most, don't sleep on the weight thing. The average decent PRS rifle weighs ~22lbs? and the balance point is ~3" in front of the magazine for a reason.

Get as much ammo as you can afford, 1000 rounds or more if you can swing it. If the only way to do that is to learn to reload, great, good ammo is a huge part of this. You don't need Gucci shit right away, you need trigger time, save the good stuff for later when you know what you're doing.

1K in ammo seems like a heavy task at this point but I’ll be working on it!

 

[white_rushin]

I'd strongly suggest a Game Changer (GC) over this. I have an earlier version of the bag with its "backbone" setup and find that the GC with my Gray Ops mini-plate is more versatile (and yes, more expensive). Cole-TAC makes good stuff and supports the sport, but, at this stage of your journey, there are better choices.

Earlier posts suggest the Game Changer "Shmedium" with heavy sand fill. While I don't dispute the rationale behind it - I've played with one enough to choose - I prefer the standard GC with whatever its default fill was when I got it three+ years ago. While one of my buddies loves his waxed Schmedium, at least one other got one and quickly sold it because the wax surface held too much dirt for him.

It comes down to individual preference. You're going to try different bits of gear. Some you'll keep. Others you'll sell. I will say this: for me, rifles have come and gone over the four years since I started this silliness, but the GC is still my go-to for at least 95% of rear-support duties, despite my having several bags now (two purchased, others off prize tables, plus the ones I've borrowed to try and returned).

Thanks for the thorough explanation earlier this week. I was wondering why one bag over the other would make such a big difference.

i was debating at this point between the Wiebad FC or the Schmedium, but OpticsPlanet actually had the Dark Oak Schmedium Wax Canvas in stock. With their live chat I was able to get it for $94 shipped so I purchased that earlier this morning! Hopefully that will suffice as a universal, do it all bag for the foreseeable future.

Regarding bipods: If you buy the Harris, you should also plan to buy a Pod-Loc and an RRS HC-Pro ARCA clamp for it. The Pod-Loc is almost a requirement - just trust me on that. The Harris's puny, pitiful little sling stud mount is practically useless for any serious work; the RRS clamp is expensive but worth it. Bottom line is, with the Pod-Loc and the RRS clamp, the Harris becomes a solid, capable piece of kit despite what the Harris-haters say (in its stock form, yeah, it's pretty danged floppy).

I have that Harris setup and use it in matches when I need a narrow footprint (compared to Atlas) or fast deployment or folding of the legs. With that said, I use an Atlas BT65-NC bipod fitted with an RRS BTC-Pro ARCA clamp over 90% of the time. If you compare the prices of the Atlas vs the Harris configured as described, the Harris is about $100 less the lasttime I looked.

Great to know, I’ve seen the quick lock for sale online but didn’t know if it was a nice to have or need to have. So realistically, a $90 S-BRM will not suffice as it is. There are another $50-100 in upgrades needed to get it to the PRS ready state. That makes the price difference between the two less. Interesting

Regarding ballistic calculators and Kestrels: I've had a full-dress Kestrel 5700 - Applied Ballistics and all the bells & whistles - and I came back to Strelok Pro. I do have a bare-bones Kestrel 5000 I got cheap on an open-box deal, but, after 4 years of shooting matches, I submit that you can get adequate weather info from a nearby NOA weather station. You do have to learn to convert the NOA barometric pressure to station pressure (based on altitude) but that's another tale.

Enough for now. There are quite a few threads here about gear and preparation for competition. Welcome to wonderland - there's a gold mine of info here. You'll learn which of the denizens here are worth paying attention to and which aren't - how to separate the nuggets from the bs, to mix a couple of similes.

Really thankful all the input. It’s really appreciated to have secondhand knowledge to lean on

 

[white_rushin]

Great perspective starting out. Here's some quick reactions and tips (coming from someone who competes a lot).

• Your gear starting out is fine, just make sure the Primary Arms scope tracks properly and holds zero. Don't sweat the reticle.

Great. Thanks! This PA scope is their mid-tier with great remarks. It’s newer and probably less discussed here on the forum but I believe it will track and do the job similar to a Viper PST Gen II

Strong recommendation for an Armageddon Gear game changer over any other bag. Either waxed canvas full size heavy fill (plastic beads) or schmedium waxed canvas heavy fill (sand). Full size w/ heavy plastic fill is more do-it-all flexible, schmedium is a bit more stable. I shoot most all my matches with just a schmedium.

Noted, I mentioned it above but I ended up buying the Schmedium wax canvas dark oak from OpticsPlanet earlier today since I was able to get it for $94 shipped.

• Arca rail is very helpful long run, pretty much everyone uses them. Arca combined with the RRS clamp opens the door to a lot more flexibility.
• Definitely get a good muzzle brake, APA Little or Fat Bastard (Gen III), Area 419 are both good. The 5 port Fat Bastard Gen III is best at overall recoil reduction, which is the goal behind a brake. Design makes a big difference in effectiveness - so don't just buy a cheap one. I've got a brand new APA Gen III little bastard in 30 cal stainless I'd sell if you're interested.

arca rail seems doable soon, I’ll likely buy that used here or on the used market before the year ends. thanks for the offer on your brake, I’ll PM you about it soon.

Big issue is ammo. I can't really imagine shooting factory ammo due to the cost and changing supply. Pretty much everyone in the sport reloads. If you're not there yet, maybe buy 500 to 1000 rounds of factory ammo to get started, but I would encourage you to think about reloading, esp living in CA. Something basic like an RCBS Rockchucker kit could get you started out and learning.

My family had some of the reloading gear and we have 308 dies so I think it’s a matter of time before I jump in with that, just got to get confident and learn all the steps with YouTube, resources here, etc. for how it sounds like I’ll have to endure the immense pain of paying inflated pricing for factory ammo

 

[CK1.0]

Thanks for the advice. Fortunately the previous owner of the tikka had it installed in an MPA chassis which I couldn’t afford at the time. But he did install the yo Dave spring which I have in there. Super light pull which is great to see!



Noted, I’ll go with the S-BRM, pod loc, and a clamp of some sort!

1K in ammo seems like a heavy task at this point but I’ll be working on it!

In your particular case, with the .308 in a KRG up against fancy 6mm's, etc... what could really gain you some ground in the whole "arm's race" scheme of things is: weights. I had a Bravo, and once kitted out with everything KRG made for it, it gave up nothing to the Manners TCS I run now.

When you can swing it, for the KRG I'd do: the Heavy ARCA Spacer, Heavy ARCA Rail, and 2-3 of the Heavy buttstock weights or Heavy Bagrider... that should get you in the neighborhood of 20-23lbs, then, because it's a .308, I'd order some of the wheel weights guys are using and pack in as many as you want/can.

If you can't self-spot your impacts/splash after that then you either suck or fuck .308.

Not sure, but don't think Tactical division has a weight limit if you're willing to carry the pig (if wrong, I'm sure someone will correct me while calling me an asshole because this is the Hide lol).

 

[DownhillFromHere]

OpticsPlanet actually had the Dark Oak Schmedium Wax Canvas in stock. With their live chat I was able to get it for $94 shipped so I purchased that earlier this morning! Hopefully that will suffice as a universal, do it all bag for the foreseeable future.

I predict you'll be happy with it. If I were to be in your position - that is, starting from square one - and knowing what I know now, I would buy the one that's available over the one I can't find. There are situations where a heavy-fill Schmedium, waxed or not waxed, might be "better" for for me on some prop than the standard GC and vice versa. But I have a GC, I don't have a Schmedium, and there are too many other toys I'd spend $ on before another bag.

I've purchased a few things from Optics Planet, but I've learned to beware of them. Hopefully your bag will ship immediately without the delays and runarounds which have earned Optics Planet a less than stellar reputation.

My family had some of the reloading gear and we have 308 dies so I think it’s a matter of time before I jump in with that, just got to get confident and learn all the steps with YouTube, resources here, etc.

If you are just starting out with reloading, I recommend a printed, hard-cover manual from Speer, Hornady, etc. over online resources - especially commentary in forums. I readily admit I'm a near-septuagenarian who regards YouTube with a jaundiced and skeptical eye because anybody can claim to be an expert and put up misleading, confusing, or even damned stupid / dangerous crap, and newbies have no way of knowing what's useful and what might cause difficulty, damage, or even injury, not to mention wate of money. A hardcover manual describes everything you need to know about getting started in reloading as well as a plethora of tested recipes, and it can sit on or near your loading bench for instant access.
----------
It all comes down to the fact that you're going to have to figure out for yourself what combinations of gear work best for you, and figuring it out means getting experience... and spending $$, if you don't have access to buddies who will let you try things out (hint: go to matches, let your squad know you're new, and you'll get ample help). The selection of a support bag is a perfect example. One of my buddies discovered the heavy-fill waxed schmedium bag and absolutely loves it; another bought the same bag, used it once, and sold it. Both of these guys are experienced competitors. There is no universally right answer.

 

[white_rushin]

In your particular case, with the .308 in a KRG up against fancy 6mm's, etc... what could really gain you some ground in the whole "arm's race" scheme of things is: weights.

for the KRG I'd do: the Heavy ARCA Spacer, Heavy ARCA Rail, and 2-3 of the Heavy buttstock weights or Heavy Bagrider... that should get you in the neighborhood of 20-23lbs, then, because it's a .308, I'd order some of the wheel weights guys are using and pack in as many as you want/can.

Noted, adding weight is still a new concept to me but it all makes sense when it comes to recoil reduction. I’ll certainly aim to buy the heavy arca rail and the buttstock weights to at least balance out the rifle. The $$ adds up fast to say the least!

 

[white_rushin]

I predict you'll be happy with it. If I were to be in your position - that is, starting from square one - and knowing what I know now, I would buy the one that's available over the one I can't find. There are situations where a heavy-fill Schmedium, waxed or not waxed, might be "better" for for me on some prop than the standard GC and vice versa. But I have a GC, I don't have a Schmedium, and there are too many other toys I'd spend $ on before another bag.

I've purchased a few things from Optics Planet, but I've learned to beware of them. Hopefully your bag will ship immediately without the delays and runarounds which have earned Optics Planet a less than stellar reputation.

Thanks I hope so as well. Hopefully it will serve me for the first two years without my impulsiveness driving me to try to pursue the latest and greatest or “new hotness”. As of today OP still hasn’t shipped the bag which I was expecting. It showed in stock with no back order so I’m cautiously optimistic at this point but I’ll probably call on Friday if I see it hasn’t shipped out by then.

If you are just starting out with reloading, I recommend a printed, hard-cover manual from Speer, Hornady, etc. over online resources - especially commentary in forums. I readily admit I'm a near-septuagenarian who regards YouTube with a jaundiced and skeptical eye because anybody can claim to be an expert and put up misleading, confusing, or even damned stupid / dangerous crap, and newbies have no way of knowing what's useful and what might cause difficulty, damage, or even injury, not to mention wate of money. A hardcover manual describes everything you need to know about getting started in reloading as well as a plethora of tested recipes, and it can sit on or near your loading bench for instant access.

Great point, just from a censorship perspective I think relying on YouTube is a bad move since what is there today may be gone tomorrow. I have been buying a few resources to start my journey like Ryan Cleckner’s Long Range Shooting Handbook which as been awesome so far.

 

[white_rushin]

Thanks for all the advice and conversation so far!

I was recently gifted around 200 rounds of Norma Tac 150gr .308 ammunition. I know this isn’t considered match grade, but I’m excited to be able to just start the sport and get some time on the rifle, zero it, adjust to the recoil impulse, etc.

Here’s the specific ammo I will be receiving.

.308 Win - 150 Gr - FMJ - Norma Tactical - QTY 20 - Norma Shooting

KEY METRICS: Caliber: .308 Win Weight: 150 gr Bullet Type: FMJ Muzzle Velocity: 2625 fps Muzzle Energy: 2289 ft. lbs Case: Brass Quantity: 20 Rounds

normashooting.com

What types of groups should I expect to get from this out of the Tikka CTR?

 

[CK1.0]

Noted, adding weight is still a new concept to me but it all makes sense when it comes to recoil reduction. I’ll certainly aim to buy the heavy arca rail and the buttstock weights to at least balance out the rifle. The $$ adds up fast to say the least!

Remember that the weight isn't really for recoil reduction in such a way as to make it softer, most of us are fine with the recoil of .308 and it's not about that... the recoil reduction is for being able to maintain a nice clear view through the scope so you can watch the whole shot from bang to impact/splash, and depending on weather, sometimes you can watch your trace the whole way.

 

[kriller134]

There’s a match on the 28th at pala. Come out and you can check out a lot of different rifles and gear.

 

[Solo 43]

PRS question: I'm seriously thinking of attending a match (Avenal...only 8 hrs! away), but have a rifle question. I shot NRA high power/long range for 10+ years and would use one of my old across the course rigs, which does NOT have a box mag. I could load 5 rounds, but would then have to single load the next rounds to finish the course. Would there be any issue with this with the rules, safety officer, etc?

 

[KnowNothing256]

@Diver160651 can probably help you out

 

[huntnh]

@Solo 43 it would be a big handy cap with the timed stages Iv seen guys do it but definitely wouldn’t recommend it.

 

[Solo 43]

I understand the 'handicap'...that doesn't bother me. I've competed at the National and World level in long range. I just want to compete, see what PRS is all about, and determine if I want to invest/change a rifle I have for PRS. One thing is this: I traveled alot when I was shooting long range/on the US Palma team, and I'm not going to do that again. To old and the drive/fire isn't there like 20+ years ago, but I'd like to shoot and have fun. I really really wish this PRS game was around when I started shooting 30 years ago.....

 

[Solo 43]

BTW...I can service my Ducati's, but computer's are NOT my strong point. @Diver160651 means what? Don't laugh.

 

[smoothy8500]

would use one of my old across the course rigs, which does NOT have a box mag. I could load 5 rounds, but would then have to single load the next rounds to finish the course.

Well, if you were able to pull off those ten rounds in the sitting and prone rapids with that handicap....you'll still have almost a minute left in PRS stage. Damn scope gets in the way of the stripper clips though.....

 

[KnowNothing256]

BTW...I can service my Ducati's, but computer's are NOT my strong point. @Diver160651 means what? Don't laugh.

He's a user on here, one of the folks that host matches at Avenal. Click the link of his username in your post where you were asking what it is (it's in yellow), then click the "Start Conversation" button. It'll pull up a window where you can ask him your Avenal questions.

 

[Epsilon]

You can save some cash buying a blemished Atlas bipod. They're fully functional, just have some kind of cosmetic imperfection.

Accu-Shot Monopod Precision Shooting Rifle Rest Magpul PRS Rail

Accu-Shot precision monopods, Atlas bipods and rifle accessories provide a high-degree of accuracy for long-range hunting, law enforcement or military duty.

www.accu-shot.com

 

[Crabcore]

make sure one of your extra mags holds 12 rounds, instead of having all 10 round mags. I like the MDT mags, and got some on black friday last year. Inevitable, you will run into a 12 round stage instead of 10 and it is a big time saver to not swap mags.

Also, another vote to skip the rangefinder. And really, you can skip the spotting scope to begin with too, at least for match use. I do like to have at least a pair of cheap (mine are 100 dollar bushnells) binoculars, just to find targets when you get to a stage. It saves a lot of time finding them in the scope when you are on the clock.

 

[The Durk]

You can slowly upgrade like I did, and get almost all your money back by trading up.

Don't waste your money on the light filled full size Gamechanger. Buy a Schmedium waxed heavy fill.

I originally thought you needed an LRF. You don't need anything like a LRF unless you're doing NRL Hunter.

A good pair of 12-15x binos goes a long way vs a spotting scope unless you're shooting passed 1000 yards. Glass quality on the high end Vortex's is really nice for the money.

A half decent tripod does wonders too. I had a $200 NF carbon fiber tripod which absolutely sucked once I traded it for a RRS tripod. I'll get away from the ethical questions about buying a chinese knockoff that happens to directly copy RRS but you can find them for around $600.

And down the line, with components being what they are, absolutley reload your own ammo. You can stockpile and shoot waaaay longer than what you could afford with boxed ammo. In this current climate it'll take less than 1000 rounds to pay for your basic reloading setup. Last year I was able to go deer hunting, when everyone else was trying to find boxed ammo on the shelves. I just picked up the bullets I wanted to use, and loaded them up.

 

[Solo 43]

Bipod question: is there one that 'most' are using? And thanks for the link.

 

[The Durk]

Atlas and the Cyke Pod's are the most popular in the North East.

 

[Solo 43]

More specifically, which Atlas? There's a bunch of them and by looking at the specs, many seem very similar to each other. Can you give me a starting point?

 

[KnowNothing256]

More specifically, which Atlas? There's a bunch of them and by looking at the specs, many seem very similar to each other. Can you give me a starting point?

Accu-Shot Monopod Precision Shooting Rifle Rest Magpul PRS Rail

Accu-Shot precision monopods, Atlas bipods and rifle accessories provide a high-degree of accuracy for long-range hunting, law enforcement or military duty.

www.accu-shot.com

The V8 series has outer legs that spin. You don’t want that.

The PSR series has an older tensioner on the cant system, the big knob underneath the bipod mount platform. Most prefer the Pod-Loc available on newer series.

The 5-H series utilizes kind of a bowl between the legs to provide cant, it’s smooth I guess but it really widens the footprint. Most prefer the smaller footprint of other series.

The CAL series has the non-rotating legs and small mount platform of the PSR but adds the Pod-Loc cant tensioner but eliminates the pan feature. These are popular.

The Super CAL series widens the footprint of the CAL but is otherwise similar.

Most series offer different mounting options. I like the BT65-LW17, but that’s because I don’t own a direct mount that’ll adapt the BT65-NC to my ARCA rails, so I have another adapter between the bipod and the ARCA.

 

[white_rushin]

You can save some cash buying a blemished Atlas bipod. They're fully functional, just have some kind of cosmetic imperfection.

Accu-Shot Monopod Precision Shooting Rifle Rest Magpul PRS Rail

Accu-Shot precision monopods, Atlas bipods and rifle accessories provide a high-degree of accuracy for long-range hunting, law enforcement or military duty.

www.accu-shot.com

Thanks for sharing this. Is their Blem sale the Black Friday equivalent sale? Or should I wait a few weeks for an additional BF coupon code to come along?

The Harris S-BRM sounds nice for $100 until you account for another $50-80 in upgrades needed. I might just roll with this option if I can score an Atlas for $180 or less

 

[Solo 43]

Any mounting options better then another?

 

[KnowNothing256]

Any mounting options better then another?

Depends on what you want. Some are cheaper, some require tools to install/remove, some are QD, and the ARCA option lets you adjust the bipod position on the fly if you have a rail that’s long enough. That may or may not be a desirable feature for your use case(s).

Sorry to be a little terse, but the options are numerous. Atlas doesn’t offer an ARCA option but they offer adapter plates I think that’ll let you rig up a RRS or Chinese knockoff ARCA mount.

 

[308pirate]

The recoil of the .308 will take you off of the target every shot and you'll spend time reacquiring it for the next shot.

Not if you know how to shoot