Beginner PRS Set-Up and advice on what NOT to buy yet

#52
Not having a box mag will be an inconvenience, but I think you can still comply with the safety rules as long as you are empty with a chamber flag when not shooting. I've been to a few of the monthly matches at Avenal, will be at the December match and would be happy to discuss offline if you want.
 
#53
Krg X-ray is what it shoot, I’d run it as it came from the box first for 3-5 matches, when you upgrade I’d recommend calling Rick at gcp rifles and get the vision forend ($300)
I also find a sling is helpful with a 308, not popular for the crowd now but most are shooting 20lb+ 6mm’s where you will be 14lb 308. Very different

The biggest thing you will need to work on is fundamentals. I would skip LRF for now. Someone will help range things. Also, for ammo, pick a factory load your gun likes and buy a case or two and get dope to true up a solver on your phone. Save your brass
 
#54

Hope I'm not too late. Don't buy it. I have one and it doesn't drape over objects like you think it should. Mine doesn't even drape like the one in that pic.
 
#56
Good to know, it’s too late in the sense that I ended up buying a bag, but you’ll be happy to hear that I ended up getting an Armageddon schmedium after folks here couldn’t stop praising it.

Disappointing to hear about the cole Tac bag though, the pictures made it look just like a more affordable GC
 
#57

Good info to know. NormaTac has been doing some stellar sales so I’ve been able to grab around 360 rounds of their 150gr averaging out to 80 cents/round. I think it’ll be great to learn the fundamentals and recoil management with, plus I hear their brass is great for reloading so I’ll use that as my base once I can find large rifle primers
 
#58
Anybody have a lead on the best Black Friday deal for Atlas PSR or Cal Gen. 2 bipods? I’m hoping to come in below the $200 mark after ship and tax. Their blem sale that was posted on the previous page gets close to that but they charge over $11 in shipping.

EDIT: the Cal Gen. 2 NC went on sale for 25% off back in stock today so I grabbed that for $196 OTD. Merry Christmas to all!
 
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#59
A friend has one it works "OK" if using their backbone plate, on it's own it sucks. A game changer or fortune cookie is a better choice for sure.
 
#61

I find the Atlas BT65 (CAL Gen II standard version) the more practical choice for PRS shooting. The BT69 CAL tall is a bit too tall, I find that I use the lowest setting on the BT65 quite frequently.

I do carry a set of leg extensions with me in my pack that are very handy in those rare situations where you need a tall bipod. 1/2" diameter oak dowel, cut to 7" length, sand one end slightly so that it wedges into the hole for the removable feet. Whittle the other end to a point, spray paint black for cosmetics if you care. I ran these at the PRS national finale this year. One stage had a steep slope that required a ton of bipod and you basically needed either a Cyke pod or something similarly tall. They did very well for me.
 
#62
Ok folks, family have asked me for my Christmas lists and it looks like I’ll able to knock out a few items on the PRS list thanks to a mix of Black Friday sales and family generosity.

It looks like I’ll be going with:

-B&T Atlas CAL Gen. 2 Bipod: $178
-Wiser Precision Arca Adapter: $52
-Patriot Valley Arms Jetblast Muzzle Brake: $99

Any thoughts on the above?

I think for the money it’s hard to beat the quality of these combined.
 
#66
I’ll be going to the range tomorrow to zero it and stretch it to 300 yards. I have the game changer I’ll be using as a front bag and a rice sock as a rear I put together this morning. I’ll report back my results.

Does anyone have a recommendation for what ballistics (fps) I should use for Norma Tac 150gr FMJ out of a 20” .308 CTR? I also have 2 boxes of Nosler 168 BTHP March but I was saving that when I was planning to stretch beyond 500 yards (is that a decent idea?)

I have heard Tikkas traditionally run a little slower than what the apps say. Should I ballpark 100fps less than whatever the app says?
 
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#67

If you have the BC of the projectile, you can use your ballistic calculator to backwards calculate your muzzle velocity. Not the most optimal way to do things, but it will work for your shooting range trip tomorrow and until you can shoot over a chrono.

In the ballistics app, enter all the data you know, including the projectile's BC. At 300 yards, I'm guessing you will be around ~1.5-1.8 mils. Try one of those values, see where you hit the target, and adjust accordingly. See what muzzle velocity produces the actual drop you saw, and enter that into the ballistics calculator.

Then, you should have a fairly close approximate for the 500 yard range. You may need to tweak the muzzle velocity after you find out what your true DOPE is for 500 yards, but this should get you in the ballpark.

Hopefully this makes sense. Shouldn't take much to get on target at 500 yards. My guess is you'll end up around ~4 mils at 500 yards.
 
#68
Ok, so I got back a few hours ago from the range. I’d say overall a huge success.

The maximum distance at this spot was actually 200 yards so I didn’t get to stretch it out much at all, but it was a great time being able to try a bolt gun for the first time, feel the recoil on a .308 compared to 5.56 (only other rifle I own), and see how it grouped.

Even though I bought the Tikka slightly used (previous owner said he only put 50 rounds through it), I had zero function or inherent accuracy issues.

I started at 50 yards to get on paper, here were my 2nd and 3rd shots respectively:


Here is my only 5 shot group properly zeroed at 100 yards. It looks like it measured out to 1.5”. I am curious if that is the limitation of Norma FMJ 150gr or if I can shrink that group with more training.


I ended the day @ max range of 200 yards to confirm my zero. I dialed up .7mils and took 3 shots on paper for these results. (Flyer was on me. My best guess is learning how to follow through)


Thanks all for the help so far! I plan to take it out to the 600 yard range in the next few weeks to get my dope for 200-600.

Any input or feedback thus far based on the range report?
 
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#69
A .308, especially an unbraked one, is not forgiving of any inconsistencies or flaws in executing the fundamentals. It will exploit those flaws, and it will show up on target.

One of the best things you can do is sign up for the Snipers Hide training here on the site. Work on one or two things each range trip. While you are still fresh to bolt guns, if you can, go get professional training. I would highly encourage Rifles Only, or one of Frank's training courses put on throughout the US.
 
#70
If you want to shoot a PRS match, show up with your gear and pay your match fee. Single loading may be a handicap, but then again a semi auto isn’t a significant speed advantage. Rifle, bipod, rear bag, ammo, and a positive attitude. Nothing else required. I’ve seen hunting rigs and m1as at national level events. Neither are optimized for PRS.
 
#71
True. I could certainly notice a difference on how much my FOV moved off target with the current configuration. Post Christmas I’ll be excited to see what the PVA can do.

I have a family member who went with me and sighted in his .308 20” PSA-10 for the first time. Both of our goals is to hit 1000 yards together. I saw his spread was about 2” @ 100 yards and 4” @ 200 yards using the same Norma ammo. How much of this do you think has to do with using 150gr bullet out of 1/10 twist barrel? It seems like my 1/11 liked the load a little better.

But I can also see why AR-10s are harder to use for precision purposes.

Thanks for the advice. I have been considering taking a professional class for some time now. I think the PRS domain might be worth shelling out the cash for since I’m so unfamiliar with it. I’ll take a look at those you recommend. I am also fairly close to the Max Ordinance academy (I think it’s called that)
 
#72
I appreciate that. I plan on collecting my dope and getting out to 600 yards in December. Then in the new year around January I’ll be attending my first PRS match in SD, CA.

I have 3 MDT magazines on the way from their BF sale so I won’t need to single load.

Looking forward to it!
 
#74
Awesome. If the folks at the matches are anything like the people that have been contributing in this thread then I’d consider myself very fortunate since everyone has been so helpful and kind. The PRS crowd is very welcoming compared to a lot of other shooting or sports groups!
 
#75

There’s a lot of difference there, between two different inexperienced shooters and different guns (one of which is an AR). I wouldn’t chalk it up to a twist difference at this point.

Also, FWIW, sub-MOA shooting isn’t as easy as this site can make it seem. A whole lot of things have to go right with the shooter, even with a perfect gun, to get tiny groups. Get some instruction from a qualified instructor on proper fundamentals, and then shoot on paper a lot. Fiddle with your body position and supports until you find what gives you consistent results on paper, not just one pretty group.

But yeah, don’t worry too much about twist.
 
#76
Noted, I see so much online chatter about bullet grains, twist rates, match caliber ammo, etc that I probably overestimate how much that plays an impact on group size.

Thanks for the reminder on the important stuff and just getting out there to get reps in. This was a quicker range trip so I only shot 20 rounds total between all the line breaks and helping my family member with his process too.

The funnest part was we had 4 bowling pins out on a berm @ 210 yards and I got to see what functional accuracy hitting them all looked like compared to fixating on group sizes.
 
#79

Rifling rate (twist) is completely irrelevant to accuracy unless it is wildly inappropriate (way too fast or way too slow) for the bullet in question.

Take any thoughts about rifling completely out of your mind right now. You have a hell of a long way to go before you need to even think about it.

Just trying to help you focus where you need to.......


I would say that conservatively 90% of those people are parroting what they heard/read with no understanding of it.
 
#80
I assume you are going to the comp at pala in January. There's a real good group of dudes there. I've gone to observe and everyone is really cool and are willing to talk you through all the stages, give tips, and borrow gear. The only reason I haven't started shooting with them is work has kept me away the last 3 months. Just be a good dude and and be social and you'll have a blast.
 
#81
Great thread. As a relative newbie, low- rising to mid-pack shooter, I’d like to confess some lessons learned.

1. I have a Terrapin LRF, a Vortex Viper HD spotter, and a WeatherFlow instead of a Kestrel. I mount that stuff on a single rail that I put on a Vortex High Country II aluminium tripod. I’ve been dorking around with this setup for a year and reached some conclusions:

- I can’t get the tripod stable enough to be able to see well or range accurately. Other guys are seeing things at matches I often just can’t, such as trace, impacts of lightweight bullets at longer distance, etc. I want to learn more from watching than I can do now. So I finally broke down and ordered an RRS with Anvil-30 ARC. (I also want a tripod to shoot off of.)

- I thought I was supposed to have a spotter, so I bought one early. Now I’d rather have binos. First, the spotter is heavy and bulky, so less convenient than binos. That also makes the spotter a big lever arm that, when I’m carrying it around, torques the head it’s on and also the screw the rail is mounted on, causing the spotter to flop over or the rail to come loose. (Sure, much or all of this could be solved by a better head and an MUB.) Second, binos are more versatile. Third, I’d rather have stereo vision and a wider field of view that’s closer to the magnification I put on my riflescope. And I can use my riflescope for zooming in to 25x/35x.

- The Terrapin is amazing. I bought because an excellent, helpful shooter at my club said I must have an LRF and I was thinking I’d want to take my AXSR well past 1,000 with it’ 6.5CM and .338LM barrels. In practice, I haven't ever had opportunity to shoot past 1200. I could maybe have gotten more bang for my buck by getting binos with LRF, such as a Sig Kilo, instead of the Terrapin and the spotter.

- The WeatherFlow plus BallisticsARC have been an amazing combination, on the whole. I haven’t felt a need to get a Kestrel. I must be one of the only people on earth with this view, though.

- The RRS should solve my tripod issues. Maybe I’ll be lucky and its stability will make the Viper a good enough optic for another year or so. But I’ll probably replace it with binos eventually. (Especially if I can find some with a good reticle, if that even exists.)

2. Should’ve bought one front bag (probably a shmedium GC) and one rear bag (Rifles Only brick) and stuck with them unless and until I knew exactly why some other bag was demonstrably better. Bought a Wiebad mini fortune cookie early on. Then I learned it isn’t optimal (even if usable) as a rear bag. Have bought numerous front and rear bags and one positional bag since then. Currently using the Cole-Tac plate with tri-corner bag and flat bag. Everybody tells me to try a GC. I’ve had one for months and gave up on it when my rifle started slipping off it as it rested on a tank trap tip. That’s probably not the fault of the bag, but of the guy who should’ve positioned it better.

3. I don’t have the bandwidth to learn reloading and shooting at the same time. So I need my LabRadar like I need another tax and spend bill from our Democrat overlords.

4. Longshot target cameras are great. Buying one to see your shots on paper, only to shoot mainly steel, is dumb. Buying one as a substitute for managing recoil well enough to see your shots on steel is really dumb.

5. Focusing on gear instead of fundamentals is an easy, tantalising trap. Don’t fall into it.

I’m going to go read Frank’s book now.
 
#83
Thanks for the feedback. It sounds like others have been overestimating that element of long-range shooting.

The way you give advice makes it a little harder to receive it. I think there is value in understanding twist rates, grains, etc without fixating on it. I tend to enjoy to learn about things inside and out so point taken about twist rates being a non-factor but the way I’ve been learning and prioritizing has been seeming to work thus far.
 
#84
My plan is to attend in February as I’ll be out of state for the upcoming one in a few days. That’s awesome to hear they’re a solid group of folks. It’s definitely on my prioritizes to make it out there.
 
#85
Thanks for sharing all your feedback. It’s very valuable and crucial since I have no real exposure or in-depth knowledge regarding most of those tools and pieces of gear.

I’m currently using (and I shit you not) $6 binos that I bought on Amazon. Granted, it was a total pricing error, but the binos best compare to Vortex Diamondbacks. I’ve looked through Viper and Razor glass that my family members own and my cheapos are truly working for me so far.

I’ll refer back to your post in the future if I’m ever looking at LRFs, spotting scopes, tripods, etc.

I did some shooting out to 500 today and the vortex DB spotter we were using worked surprisingly well.
 
#86
Ok, now that I’m through all the replies I can share my latest range experience.

I took my set-up up north to Eastern Idaho and has a blast earlier this afternoon. Very different shooting experience being that it was snowing and 15-20 degree weather.

I went to re-confirm my zero from my last trip at 100 yards and found it had shifted left a few clicks. I adjusted and was able to group around/over MOA with my standard ball Norma 150gr.


The private range I was on had steel targets from 200-500 yards. I wasted a few rounds shooting at a steel target that I was told was 300 yards away that turned out to be closer to 400. (Lesson learned about the usefulness of LRFs)

I decided to see how far I could stretch the rifle, so I ranged the 500 yard target to make sure it was correct.

I used the Norma ballistic app, got my dope, read the wind (which was easy to see since there was snow falling), and I made a first round impact right away at 500 yards. I made the 2 follow-up shots with no misses either which was a cool boost to validate I’m on the right track.

I hope to make a trip in January to either an 800 or 1000 yard range to truly prep for my first match in February.
 
#88
The single best thing you can do is to get a bag, bipod and your dope.

Then go to a match, you’ll be drinking from a firehose.
 
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#89
Don't buy a membership. Just shoot whatever local matches you can, as many as possible, and toss in maybe one or two big ones for the year as a learning experience.

You find yourself in the top 10 or so consistently at local matches and top 30ish (as in 1-30) at the big ones THEN if you want to think about memberships and points races you might be ready.

Don't get wrapped around that axle early on but definitely compete as much as possible.
 
#90
Don't buy the range finder, and instead save up and buy a good tripod/Binocular (12x or more) set up.

This past season, I started spending ALOT of time watching shooters in front of me shoot the course of fire through my binocular set up. It helped me immensely mentally prepare for the course of fire (which targets to shot, target order, # of shots per target). Also, it really helps you see where guys are missing and learn how to judge wind.

There's usually alot of glass around, so guys will probably let you look through their's, but eventually you'll want your own set up.
 
#93
I’ve mostly done original mfg sites for products that have them, except RRS which is often out of stock while Thermal Optics Plus often isn’t. Have yet to find a site, or sites, that reliably have the exact thing I want for any meaningful discount. For me, meaningful is 30+%, which I can often find in the outdoor/climbing gear world with patience. The 10% discounts that crop up on places like Midway or Brownells or wherever are often still pricier than sticker price on Natchez, Midsouth, or Grafs, especially on components.
 
#94

No problem. Regarding where everyone buys their gear, I’m sure the answers vary a ton. I bought almost everything essential on my rifle used. Barreled action was from a PPT. Scope was from arfcom, chassis from tacswap.

The only items I got new were the accessories that were already on sale because of BF sales. I tried to maximize on the deals since I know precision is not cheap in the slightest.

I don’t see most folks doing this (taboo perhaps?) but here’s a list of what all the components costed to give someone perspective on the true cost of entry into a decent set-up. (While deal hunting like crazy.)

�
Part:Brand:PriceLocation:
Barreled Action:Tikka T3X CTR 20”$500PPT
Chassis:KRG X-Ray$360TacSwap
Scope Base:Leupold Mk4$60Riflegear
Scope:PA GLX 4-16x$525Arfcom
Scope Rings:Vortex Pro Series$65Local Shop
Bipod:Atlas CAL Gen. 2$178
(xmas)		B&T Blem Sale
Arca Rail:KRG Std.$68KRG
Arca Clamp:Wiser Precision$52 (xmas)Wiser Precision
Brake:Patriot Valley$99 (xmas)PVA BF
Rifle Only:$920
Grand Total:$1907
Extras:
Shooting BagArmageddon Schmedium$94OpticsPlanet
AI MagsMDT (4x)$140MDT BF
RangingMilDotMaster$25Brownells
Total:$259

Realistically I could’ve lowered the price and saved around $200 if I had gone with a Harris sling mounted SBRM (no arca rail $68, arca clamp $52, and save $78 on bipod) but I got a few goodies for Christmas so I went for the higher quality items.

Hopefully that keeps this useful for others and gives some perspective!
 
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#96
Cool, dude! I suggest you take notes on lessons learned and maybe things you did well. Might be better to do this right after the match, rather than during or after each stage. Good luck!
 
#99
Took the rifle out to 1,000 yard range today.

I had an amazing time gathering dope at various distances and frankly learning some of the limitations of the caliber. It felt like I could adjust my elevation with estimated mils from my BC and make first round impacts with relative ease between 0-600 yard targets.

As soon as I tried to reach 700 and beyond, my ability to make impacts definitely took a dive. I was once again using Norma 150gr ball ammo, but I connected at 700, 800, and 1K successfully. I’d say those impacts would average 2 out of 7-8 shots though, lots of bouncing around.
 
#100

For sake of reference, I have a Howa 1500 308 with a 17" barrel (OEM 24" varmint contour chopped off) and with my handload (Hornady 178 ELD-M, Lapua case, WLR primer, 43.3 gr Ramshot TAC, 2530 fps) hits between 700 and 800 yards are about a 90% probability. Beyond there it gets dicey. Some of it is my skill level, I'm sure.
 
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