Beginner Wanting to try 3 gun. Please Help!

[Dustin M.]

I'm starting with the AR I went with a cmmg billet .556 lower, cmmg lower parts kit, and some cheap-o buffer tube kit off of Amazon ( defiantly got what I paid for)... I need some suggestions on decent upper, parts, and most importantly the barrel. I'm on a budget here guys. What you got for me?



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[GunKnowledge]

Ok, well first off I suggest you stop any forward progress and research more. Unfortunately you've already wasted money for no real benefit.

Getting a billet lower by itself and then pairing it with a budget upper is mostly a waste of money. There are some benefits to billet AR-15 lower receivers (kuztom features, better fit and finish (from precise machining tolerances), etc.

However, having said that, the benefits that come from machining are most apparent when you match a billet lower with the billet upper from the same manufacturer. Otherwise, you have a lower with a precise dimension that matches nothing, which is why most billet AR receivers are sold as a matching pair. Otherwise you just faced a 2000-grit sanded piece of marble up against a 50-grit sanded piece of concrete. Yah it fits, but kind of a waste.

If I were you, I would trade the billet lower for a cheaper forged one, and use the profit to help pay for the rest of the AR.


As for the 3-gun rifle in general, don't worry too much about parts. Unfortunately most people who start 3gun quit pretty quickly, for lots of reasons. Build the cheapest-nothing special-bare bones $400 AR-15 and use your budget to buy a cheap pistol and cheap shotgun and a case or two of ammo. If you're lucky, you've already got a pistol & shotgun or a friend that will let you borrow one.

Then, once you go to your first 3-gun intro class (lots of competitive ranges hold them), you'll decide whether you even like the game and want to sink money into it.

The good thing about ARs is they're like legos, when you want to upgrade you just pop off the old part and toss on the new one (basic tools may or may not be required/borrowed). Once you have a complete rifle that flings lead, spend your money on ammo and go shoot several matches. Then you can start wasting/spending money on better parts.

Otherwise, internet ninja-Dustin is getting ahead of 3gun shooter-Dustin, and you may spend money on fancy gear that you can't get your money back out of.

 

[GunKnowledge]

But if you're sure and are on the shopping hunt, best advise for a new purchase is skip new.

Since you have a lower and are going to build yourself, you get no warranty. Buy used parts to build a rifle that's going to get slid in the sand, banged on barriers, dropped while running, etc.

You can build an entire AR-15 with less than $400, it's tough and takes a good bit of patience/haggling/horse-trading/searching, but it can be done now that gun prices are pretty much back to pre-assault ban-threat-price gouging. A brand new complete AR is 500-some, used parts are available everywhere and don't hold their value well at all since the AR-15 parts market is so saturated.

Don't drop money on a fancy barrel, there's no way you'll even come close to noticing the difference for quite a while. As long as she isn't keyholing your shots, you're golden.

Which 3-gun division are you thinking of entering? (the equipment to buy will vary quite a bit depending on this)

When you say "on a budget", what kind of number are you thinking? Does that number include optic, handgun, shotgun, ammo?

 

[bornhunter04]

You really need to define your budget and what you already have.

Don't go all gung ho and buy a complete ELS belt system until you know for sure that's the direction you want to go. I would run whatever el-cheapo gear you have already and not start spending big money until you know your going to stick with it.

I got lucky, when i built the ar i use for 3 gun, i built it with the idea that i might start shooting 3 gun someday. It started out with a big scope on it and when i switched to 3 gun, i sold that scope and bought a 1-4x, haven't changed anything else on the rifle. Now, i don't have a low-mass bcg or adjustable gas block. But it gets the job done well. People are always swapping rails for new ones, so buying used in a lot of area's will save you a lot of money.

When i started, i bought a couple of $25 shell caddies from midway that held 6 shells. They do the job, but I've since upgraded to some AP customs caddies. If you can carry 12 or so shotgun shells you should be fine for your first few matches, and usually if there's some large shotgun stage someone will lend you some shell caddies to use.

What division are you going to compete in? Tac limited will save you money on an optic because you can just run irons. What about a pistol? Main thing here is to have a holster with good retention. You DO NOT want that thing bouncing out of your holster when you take off running down a stage to engage targets.

What kind of shotgun are you going to use?

I personally am still using a benelli nova in tac ops. The thing that holds me back on shotgun stages are either missing targets or fumbling reloads. With the Nordic tube I've got about $350 in my shotgun. If you can borrow a shotgun or share one with another shooter that will save you some money too. But eventually you'll need your own.

Just remember, your gear is going to get scratched, dirty, and just beat up all around. So 3 gun isn't the place for a safe queen or anything you want to keep looking nice.

 

[MarkCO]

BRAKES big time!

Have you shot some action pistol or rimfire matches yet? If not, that should be your first step. You might be the best shooter ever, and a really smart guy, but 3Gun is a LOT to take care of for a beginner. I was just on the phone talking to Chad of 3GN yesterday and we were both lamenting how newbies come to a match and get stomped, or worse DQ'd and then we lose them.

Find the local club and contact the MD. Tell him you have nothing but want to try 3Gun and then (for the most part this is safe) listen to him. You should be told to come out to a match with some ammo and borrow some stuff or shoot what you have.

I shot my first 3Gun with a Marlin Camp9, a Glock 22 and a 870 pump. I had a Trap shotgun bag for my shells, it was a mess, but I had shot a lot of pistol prior so I was safe, and I learned from some of the best. I was under 30% at my first match. I am not going to ever win a major, but those few top 5 and top ten stages scores were really nice to get, just takes time money and effort.

After your feet are wet, you will start to see what will work. 3Gun is expensive and making mistakes, you won't get your money back, so it pays to have used some stuff before you plunk down the coin.

I was on the phone two times today with relatively newer 3Gunners trying to figure stuff out, and what gear to get and how it would improve them....

3Gun is multi-faceted, but it can be simplified...shoot the pistol fast, shoot the rifle accurate, load the shotgun, everything in chunks.

 

[Rundownfid]

You are getting some good advise here. Any chance you know people who already shoot 3-gun. A day at the range trying out different guns and gear can go a long way to defining your needs. Also, the advise on shooting other actin matches first is good. Much of the safety commands and mindset are pretty standard across the IDPA-IPSIC to 3-gun format. If you have a pistol then finding an IDPA or other match will go a long way to getting used to running shooting stages safely. Fortunately the 9MM you would use in IDPA SSP or ESP is probably what you will need for 3-gun (don't even think about shooting open if a noob). There are rifle only action matches, but they are rare compared to the pistol matches which are nearly every week-end within a reasonable drive.

Where are you located, there may be shooters here form your area who would Vol to show you the ropes? Good luck, great sport.

 

[MULLINS2171]

Dustin I am in the same boat as you thanks for asking the question. I learned a lot.

 

[Dustin M.]

Gun knowledge I appreciate your advice. I plan on getting a cmmg billet upper as well. I know my "budget" is a little vague but I plan on building over a period of a few months. I just don't want do dump money on the Jordan's when the Payless will do the same job. I have an m&p 40 already and buying an 1187 off a guy in a bind for 150. So I should be good on those. I honestly have not a clue about 3gun just seemed like my kinda sport I'm a runner and a shooter so it seemed to fit me.


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[DT1]

The main attribute to a 3-gun or multigun rifle is reliability. It needs to go bang every time you pull the trigger. Accuracy is a consideration, but not paramount. In most of the matches, the most challenging shots from a distance perspective will normally be from 200-300yds on 10" flash targets. Some matches stretch the distances out further, but they are the exception rather than the rule. 1-2moa accuracy is plenty. Of course more accureate is always better but not at the expense of reliability. A brake is important b/c it will allow you to speed up your cadence when double tapping close targets. Multigunners swear by their favorite brakes, but in my experience, most anything with holes in it will get the job done. There are a million things you can buy and bolt onto your AR, each one promising to make you shoot faster and better. Go slowly and get good basics to start with like a reliable AR with a good trigger and effective brake. If you go too fast buying accessories, you'll wind up with a big box of "stuff" you don't use and wonder how it all got there (ask me how I know this......)

Optics are also an important consideration. If you're shooting irons, no worries. If shooting "tactical" or "open" division there are considerations and trade offs. Most people use low power variable scopes with 1x on the low side and 4-5x on the high side. There are many new entries into this scope segment so there are an increasing number of choices. Unmagnified red dots are good if all or most of the targets are inside 100yds. You can get magnifiers for red dot optics but they're a bit cumbersome IMHO. Low power variables are probably the best bet.

There are multigunners here on The Hide and you'll get some good pointers from them. Another good source to check out is the Brian Enos multigun forums. Multi-Gun - Brian Enos's Forums... Maku mozo! Lots of good info on rifles, optics and other equipment related to multigun from people who shoot it all the time.

It's a fun sport, good luck with it!