Gunsmithing Beginners lathe

[eca7891]

I did search this topic before post but did not see what I was looking for.

What would be an appropriate beginners lathe for thread cutting in regards to threaded brakes and attachments.

Please explain why this would be your starting point as well so I could have more understanding.

 

[padom]

Typing lathe in the search box brings up numerous threads for you to read that answer your questions and have lots of info.

Grizzly or Jet Gearhead are probably what you're looking for as a hobbyist.

12" x 36" Gunsmithing Metal Lathe w/ Stand - Grizzly Industrial, Inc.

<h1>G4003G 12" x 36" Gunsmithing Lathe with Stand</h1> <h2>Grizzly's best-selling gunsmithing lathe.</h2> When we set out to design a professional gunsmithing lathe, we felt that we should also make a smaller starter lathe for aspiring hobby gunsmiths. Don't let the "smaller" size fool you – the...

www.grizzly.com

 

[eca7891]

Thank you.

 

[McReef]

IMHO, when it comes to machine tools, “beginner” or “hobby” usually just means “crap”. I’d recommend spending some time on some machining sites, or better yet, around some machinists, and you will get a better idea of what you are looking for.

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t mean to discourage, just suggesting you do some serious homework before plunking down your money.

 

[eca7891]

IMHO, when it comes to machine tools, “beginner” or “hobby” usually just means “crap”. I’d recommend spending some time on some machining sites, or better yet, around some machinists, and you will get a better idea of what you are looking for.

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t mean to discourage, just suggesting you do some serious homework before plunking down your money.

I plan on it.

just looking for the starting point and this post it it.

And thank you. Your input is valued.

Ps The entry cost itself may be high enough to make this prohibitive.

 

[McReef]

I plan on it.

just looking for the starting point and this post it it.

And thank you. Your input is valued.

Ps The entry cost itself may be high enough to make this prohibitive.

In that case, everyone has their own opinion, and often those opinions will be based on an individual’s past experience. The problem with that, is condition is more important than name for the most part, and a novice might not know how to tell the good from the bad.

You can probably tell I am talking about used machinery, and that is because it is absolutely the way to go IMO unless you have money to throw away.

When looking, clean is nice, and shows (maybe) that a machine was cared for. Above this I would be looking at the ways (sliding contact areas) to ensure they appear smooth and clean, and the feel of the controls, which should have minimal backlash (play when reversing directions) and should turn with a smooth feel throughout their travel (some slight tightness at the ends is normal on older equipment).

There are so many options it is tough to really point you in any particular direction right out the gate. Lablonde, Moriseiki, Clausing Colchester, those are good names in general though...

 

[eca7891]

It’s all help.

I would rather receive too much info than not enough.

thank you.

 

[fdkay]

I went through this myself.
You will invariably get the "buy american iron" blah, blah, blah.
The problem with that is this: There is NO American company manufacturing manual lathes. None, Nada, Zero. As someone that is just trying to learn, how the hell are you supposed to judge whether the ways are good, or the control gearing is correct?

The real answer is this:
Figure out how much you are willing to spend.
Figure out how much room you have.
Figure out exactly what you want to do with the lathe.
Do you need a small footprint, 110 volt lathe? Can you support a 220/240 lathe?
Do you have a worksop that has three phase already wired?

To do barrels, you'll need at least 1.5" spindle bore.
To do brakes, etc... considerably less. However, brakes are internal threads and that is much more demanding from an experience/expertise standpoint.

I hemmed and hawed for a while, I really wanted to just get a small benchtop to learn threading etc... on (and this size would be sufficient for brakes, even .22 barrels). But, by the time you paid for a quality benchtop, for another 1200 or so, you could get a 12x36 gunsmith lathe, which is ultimately what I did.
The ONLY places manufacturing manual lathes are mainland china, taiwan and india.
Taiwanese lathes are very good, Indian lathes are difficult, if not impossible to find and some of the Chinese lathes are quite good (but not as good as the Taiwan lathes)
The Chinese made Grizzly gunsmithing lathes have upgraded spindle bearings.
For your STATED purpose a 10x22 lathe will work.
Just be advised, you will end up getting an Aloris type tool post, so just factor that cost in right at the beginning. You can, however, use the 4 way tool post just fine.
Stay away from Bolton lathes.
Keep in mind, the benchtop lathes generally have one feedrod/leadscrew which meand it does double duty, it drives the carriage when facing/turning and when threading. The larger units have separate feed rods and leadscrews.
However, unless you are doing fairly substantial work, a benchtop will give you years of service.
This (or one like it) will likely do everything you need now :

9" x 19" Benchtop Metal Lathe - Grizzly Industrial, Inc.

<h1> Grizzly G4000 9" x 19" Bench Lathe </h1> <h2>The perfect combination of price and performance. </h2> <p>The Grizzly G4000 9" x 19" Bench Lathe is a great lathe for those getting started in metalworking.</p><p>It has a number of features and capabilities typically only found on higher-end...

www.grizzly.com

 

[Gunfighter14e2]

Slightly used Southbend 10x48 will do everything you want an gaybay is full of spare parts. If you shop long enough you will save much on the machine, but that is chump change compared to the tooling you will buy an make for it. They should give the machine away, as the tooling can be from 2-20 times the machine front cost. BTDT

 

[Praeger]

https://www.precisionmatthews.com/shop/pm-1236t/

Made in Taiwan, precision spindle bearings, excellent customer support and large number of user groups. Go for the 3 phase motor and use a VFD. Inexpensive and lots of step by step instructions. Will provide a great deal of flexibility; program start/stop speeds, speed variability, and much more. Plan on budgeting for tooling and accessories.

 

[Easy_E]

I went through this about three years ago looked everywhere local for a nice lathe . Ninety percent were worn out ready for the scrap yard , way over priced or 20 tons/20 foot long .
I was trying to avoid letting my gunsmith know what I was doing but finally asked if he knew of any good lathes ? He has a nice shop with everything in his basement and spare machines in his barn I didn't know about
. Ended up buying a Sheldon 11x36 lathe from him it came from a local school . I learned how to run a lathe on this machine and it does good work but has some small issues . It has some wear in the ways and needs lead screw nuts .
You want the biggest thru hole and shortest head stock if you want to work thru that. The Sheldon will handle a 20" barrel minimum and I believe the Precision Mathews will do 17" . There are other ways to thread just easier for me thru the head stock. Could have used metric thread a few times had to find old lathes that do that.
.
I keep looking for a second lathe might look at a Mathews after the first of the year.

 

[81STFACP]

This is a nice one for garage lathe. Precision Matthews can order the same lathe from the same factory in Taiwam under the PM badge. Mine from PM is on board the cargo ship. Will write up impression once I get it running. It will replace the SBL13 I just sold. My favorite for doing AR15 barrels that I get at 1.00 cylinder is the belt drive Taiwan 10x24. The little is a very capable lathe. The other lathe is a Taiwan made 1236 for other work. Both have been converted to VFD. Not in the business though, I just do my own, my brother's bench gun barrels, and do the barrels for the state junior high power team. A plug for Shilen for their barrel support program for the kids.

EISEN 1440EV Precision Lathe, 5HP, DRO installed, Heavy Cast-Iron Base – Eisen Machinery Inc

EISEN 1440EV Precision Lathe, 5HP, DRO installed, Heavy Cast-Iron Base

EISEN 1440EV Precision Lathe, 5HP, DRO installed, Heavy Cast-Iron Base Made in Taiwan with One-Piece Cast Iron Base Inverter driven lathe can be used on 3-phase or 1-phase electricity EVS: Electronic Variable Speed • Two step electronic variable speed 36 ~ 2500 RPM. 
 • Low maintenance. Less...

eisenm.com

 

[McReef]

Buy old.

Slightly used Southbend 10x48 will do everything you want an gaybay is full of spare parts. If you shop long enough you will save much on the machine, but that is chump change compared to the tooling you will buy an make for it. They should give the machine away, as the tooling can be from 2-20 times the machine front cost. BTDT

Good advice. If you are patient, you will find a good deal, on a nice used piece of equipment, and will get a bunch of extras thrown in the mix. You can easily get a MUCH bigger value for your buck going used.

Buying a new machine is not what I would recommend. If you have zero experience, I’d suggest taking a class or two. Turn some handles, get a little feel for what’s going on, pick your instructor’s brain, then shop for a machine.

I am certain there are plenty of folks in here who know their shit, but asking for input here is going to be hit or miss. It is essentially the equivalent of going on a machinist site and asking which rifle to buy.

 

[Gunfighter14e2]

If you are patient, you will find a good deal, on a nice used piece of equipment, and will get a bunch of extras thrown in the mix. You can easily get a MUCH bigger value for your buck going used.

I started with a beat up SB 9X20 an redid it end to end. Bought, traded, an made lots of tooling & jigs for it. 1.5 years ago I started looking for it's replacement as it did not have the quick change gear box or power cross feed. I looked hard for those 18 months an came across another SB 9 only a 4 foot model with a ton or tooling for $750.00 very close by. Looking at it's photos I was wondering what was wrong with it based on the price an what I was seeing (the hand scraping still in the weigh's) drove to see it, paid for it an then ask a few questions. It was built in 1947 sold new to the first owner who had saved all his extra money to buy it. He got sick 2 weeks later an for the rest of his life could not use it. He passed but his wife never sold it for the next 20 years after he died. The guy I got it from, was into restoring cars, but he never used it either. I brought her home cleaned an repainted it an while doing that had many a guy over to look at it. 4 were life time machinist's an one was an old SB sale rep, everyone of them guessed she had less than 1.5- 3 hrs total use from the factory. Plus all the tooling that was not dups from my old machine would work on this one as well. I don't do gunsmithing at all save for myself, as I had bought it for one off part making or repairing of broken shit, jigs for the mill ect. If you look long enough you will find what your looking for at a good price, now I am eyeing a 16" SB a buddy has that has less then 50hrs total on it. When he sells it it will be mine, but for now I just have to go to his place to use it, which is better than nothing. Don't need it but 3-5 times a year but still what the old girl anyway,...

 

[Waorani]

I picked up a South Bend Heavy 10 about 20 yrs ago. Has been good to learn on, not too big, not too small. AGI machine shop lathe course was also good resource for a beginner, particularly since it's Darrell Holland on a Heavy 10. In the market now for something bigger but will be in addition to, not replacement for, the SB. Unfortunately, the southeast isn't exactly a hot bed of used machinery.

 

[Gunfighter14e2]

Unfortunately, the southeast isn't exactly a hot bed of used machinery.

That is the understatement or the year right there. Most everything I was seeing advertised was either rust belt iron at basement prices or collector pricing in the SE. Found many rust belt ones that were nice, at a good price but, nothing was worth driving into those shit holes to get it. One I wanted bad an told the guy if he would drive just over his state line I would pay him for his trouble, but no way in hell was I entering his state even if he paid me to take it. Interestingly he fully understood why I said that,...

 

[Waorani]

There are a couple dealers around Atlanta but I avoid driving in Atlanta at all costs. Would like a decent Monarch, LeBlond, or similar.

 

[Gunfighter14e2]

There are a couple dealers around Atlanta but I avoid driving in Atlanta at all costs.

You an me both, Atlanta is Chicago south to me.

 

[Keith Johns]

I have to support Grizzly Gunsmithing lathes.

 

[mram10]

I also own an eisen. Made in the same taiwan factory as precisionmatthews.

 

[Wannashootit]

Ps The entry cost itself may be high enough to make this prohibitive.

^^^
This is key.
Without a budget range, this thread is useless.
It's going to determine whether you can buy new, or if you need to look for a used machine- with tooling.

Buying used requires you to have someone with the needed knowledge to evaluate the condition- but given time, a used but tight machine- with tooling- can save many thousands over a new machine, and needing to buy all new tooling...

The lathe itself is only part of the cost "picture".

And, you don't necessarily need a large bore spindle if you have 36"-40" between centers; all barrel work can be done effectively between centers with a steady. A large spindle bore, and long bed, gives you options to work either way.

But without knowing how much coin you are able to cough up- both for the initial lathe purchase, and for tooling- which can easily exceed the cost of the machine, it's impossible to make a recommendation.