Beginning reloader could use some reassurement

[Apache]

Hello everyone,
I'm getting into reloading finally after two years of buying factory ammunition. I've done my research, but given my limited budget as a college student, and limitless amount of patience learned from two years of terrible General Ed book reading, I've decided to go with a Lee Classic Reloader, just as many of you have when you first started out. I understand it's a tedious setup, but I'm prepared for that.

I've been slowly building up my rifle with what I can, and now that I'm content for a little while I really want to start out with the other aspect of shooting, loading. For this here's my wishlist of things I'm going to get going with:

Lee Classic Reloader .308
Hornady 168gr AMAX(non moly)
Varget powder, 1 lb
Wolf Large Rifle primers 1000
Cheapest electronic powder scale I can find
Digital Caliper
Whatever reloading manual I can find (although the hide has been very helpful with people posting up great loads for their rifles)

I've been saving my brass that I've been shooting for the past year or so and I have around 300 Remington,Winchester,Federal,and like 20 rounds of Hornady in there.

I know this doesn't hold a flame to some of your benches but I don't mind spending a night just, quite literally, hammering out rounds one at a time. Makes me make sure I do each one right if you think about it. I understand the Lee Classic Loader isn't perfect, and it indeed has it's own set of problems, primarily based on its own simplicity in design, but what I would like to know, never having used one, is if those con's outweigh the pro's?

So, from a strictly beginning reloader's, amateur-ish standpoint, is this okay?

 

[bohem]

Re: Beginning reloader could use some reassurement

You'll be fine. I would suggest that you skip the digital scale and get a good manual balance. If you spend about 45 bucks on a manual balance you'll have a tool that you can always rely on, rather than a digital which can fall into question.

I understand where you're coming from as a college student, I cobbled together ammo from range pickups, mil surp bullets and powder and used my dad's press through college and grad school. My current single stage press is a Rockchucker that he found at a yard sale ($10). That's a good place to keep an eye open for stuff, especially if it's adult kids cleaning out the house for parents that are going to a home or have passed, a lot of times you'll find stuff they have no idea the value and will offer to give it up for next to nothing. My dad got a Garand that way once, all original, as issued from 1943 manufacture. The hippy asshole sold his grandfather's "evil destructive weapon" for $100.

 

[ainnamor]

Re: Beginning reloader could use some reassurement

I would second staying away from a cheap digital scale. They don't tend to be accurate or accuracy will quickly degrade. You are going to go through a 1 lb jug pretty fast. You might want to get more powder. Also, you should get a reloading manual or two. I am sure you can find some used ones for cheap. I know a lot of stuff is covered on the internet but there is also some basic things that people will omit. Reading the books is worth it.

 

[planalpha]

Re: Beginning reloader could use some reassurement

I have a Dillon 650 that I use for cranking out high volume (read "good enough") loads for IPSC and PR. For my precision loads I use my Lee single stage press and make perfect and consistent cartridges that I can't get from my progressive. Please skip the cheap digital scale!!! The Lee Safety Powder scale is ~$20 and is more accurate than it has the right to be.
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=712103
I have two of them and a digital scale that I've done some experimenting with and the two Lees are spot on and the digital scale is good initially but does drift some. I could never get PERFECT charges with it like I can with the beam scale and a powder trickler. Listen to the experts here (I'm not one of them). They know their stuff. They've helped me tremendously.
Good luck!

 

[Clark]

Re: Beginning reloader could use some reassurement

I have read and/or contributed to hundreds of "getting started reloading" threads on dozens of forums over the last decade.

I now believe that the best way to start is to go to someone's else's house and watch them reload.
This may not be possible, but is preferred.
Watching reloading on youtube may be substituted.

I now believe that the best equipment to start with is the minimum cost press based set up.

This is an example I put together on getting started in .308 on the cheap:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">1) Skip cleaning the brass used brass you found lying around.
2) Lube the outside of the case with Redding Imperial die wax.
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=519525
$7.79
3) Put the sizer die in the press and screw the press to your work bench.
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=807734
$27.99
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=738184
$13.49
4) Take the decapping stem out of the sizer die.
5) Put a shell holder in the press:
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=616684
$3.49
6) Put the case in the shell holder in the press and push down on the press handle until the brass goes all the way into the die. Pull up on the handle until the brass comes out.
7) Spin the decapping stem in a drill while you grind off enough of the expander ball, until the expander ball will fit in the sized case mouth without touching.
8) Put the decapping stem back in the die and size the die again so the spent primer pops out.
9)Put the primer in the priming tool:
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=556149
$14.99
WOLF LARGE PISTOL PRIMERS - per 1000 in stock at Powder Valley $25.50
put the case in the shell holder.
Put the shell holder in the priming tool.
Put the priming tool in the press.
Seat the primer.
10) Weigh out 40 gr IMR4895 powder
IMR 4895 - 1 LB. in stock at Powder Valley
$19.00
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=712103
$21.99
11) Pour the powder into the case
12) Seat a bullet into the case until the cartridge length is 2.81"
Sierra .308 168 gr. HPBT Match (100)in stock at Powder valley
$27.92
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=128288
$25.99
13) Put the loaded cartridge in a plastic baggie with a post it with these words written, ".308, 2.81", 40 gr IMR4895, Sierra 168 gr HPBT"
14) Go to the range and shoot groups.
15) Return from the range and write up an email range report listing the date, the rifle, the scope, the wind, the rest, the group size, and the load data on the post it.
16) Print the range report and staple it to the targets.
17) File it under "range reports"

I am adding up that it cost you $162.65</div></div>

The reason for starting as cheap as possible is because it gives flexibility to the multiple directions each reloader might take:
1) Quit and sell out
2) Minimum use and let it mostly gather dust
3) Stay cheap but use it a lot
3) Go deluxe single stage
4) Go progressive press


Reloading forums are great for individual questions, once a person has started reloading.

There is a constant problem on reloading forums of contributors suggesting advanced techniques for accurate reloading that will have no measurable effect on the group sizes of the poster posing the question or for most of the readers.
Yet an individual does not enough time to eliminate all techniques in controlled experiments.
So the individual must intuitively pick and choose through the handloading accuracy folklore.
You may find some Bart Bobbitt post where he finds primer choice can make up to 1/16th inch difference in group size, but that is the exception. Most posts are unqualified suggestions to use the poster's techniques.

 

[BCP]

Re: Beginning reloader could use some reassurement

I like the rock chucker kit, but if you don't want to spend 3 bills than what the above guy posted is great advice. Also +1 on checking yard sales that's how I got my 2nd rcbs uniflow, a scale and a bunch of 30+ year old dies for 50$.

 

[Victor N TN]

Re: Beginning reloader could use some reassurement

I'm going to throw in my 2 cents on the subject.

A friend of mine started loading with an original LEE loader on his kitchen table. He loaded 357 and 30-30 like that for several years. In the later 1970s everyone in this part of the country was hurting for money.

I agree with the others on going with the mechanical balance beam scale. I tend to favor either RCBS, Lyman or Hornady. I also favor the LYMAN's Centerfire Handloading Manual. It generally has more actual usable information than any 2 or 3 others. Most manuals have listed only the powder or bullets affiliated with that particular maker.

As for the powder, remember than there is 7,000 grains in a pound. You can divide your charge weight into that and get a rough idea of what number of loads you can get out of a pound. I usually get ball park of 150 out of a pound. I have never come out right at whatever the final number was.

Hang in there and read everything you can on the subject. Remember safety, safety safety. You can never be too safe when dealing with powder and primers.

Since you didn't state what rifle you're loading for, use all caution and stick to the books. At least until you get enough experience to start experimenting on your own.

Good luck.

 

[bohem]

Re: Beginning reloader could use some reassurement

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: planalpha</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> The Lee Safety Powder scale is ~$20 and is more accurate than it has the right to be.
</div></div>

You're the first person that I've heard say that. I've owned one, my friend has owned one, several people on here owned them, all of them were either sold off or trashed long ago.

 

[michaeltx]

Re: Beginning reloader could use some reassurement

I had that Lee scale at first. I'm not down on Lee products or anything, but this one is truly bad in my mind. It's not too bad for setting a powder measure, but not so much for weighing individual charges. There's a single plastic slider for adjustments between 10 grain steps that will not stay in the same place. The balance arm tends to get caught by the dampener magnets. For about $50 or so you can get the bottom end RCBS or Dillon, and either are products you can use for decades. If you can squeeze out another $30, this is where I'd spend it.

However, I'd even take the Lee scale before I'd rely on a cheap digital for powder charges.

 

[Genin]

Re: Beginning reloader could use some reassurement

I agree with bohem. I just bought an RCBS 750 digital scale to replace my Lee Safety Scale because it was horrible. Not just myself but multiple others that were reloading with me agreed it was trash.

 

[High Binder]

Re: Beginning reloader could use some reassurement

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Apache</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Cheapest electronic powder scale I can find</div></div>

That's the one thing you don't want to skimp on. It'll cause you to hate everything else you do.

 

[High Binder]

Re: Beginning reloader could use some reassurement

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: planalpha</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> The Lee Safety Powder scale is ~$20 and is more accurate than it has the right to be.
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=712103
</div></div>

Just look at how the 65 people who have reviewed them on that very site like them... NOT GOOD!

In short, to the OP you need to actually spend some money on a good scale there is no way around it a $20 or even $100 scale is not going to do it for you. Buy a nice beam scale for $100 or a $200+ electric scale.

 

[Victor N TN]

Re: Beginning reloader could use some reassurement

On the subject of scales. I have started getting equipment and supplies together to load shotshell. The thing I wanted to say is that I bought a Lyman scale that has a counterweight with it that allows the scale to go to 1,000 grains. I bought it from Midway. I think the price was ball park of $55 to 60. I checked it with the laboratory check weights I have. It's been on the money the times I've used it. It's been pretty good to work with so far.

I just wanted to say that a decent working scale doesn't have to cost an arm and a leg. And for close work I don't really trust the cheaper grade of electronic scales.

 

[Leaddog]

Re: Beginning reloader could use some reassurement

Apache - you didn't say what kind of shooting you plan to do? Loading for plinking and short ranges is much different than long range competitive shooting. What do you want to shoot? What rifle configuration are you building?

 

[RECKON SO]

Re: Beginning reloader could use some reassurement

I also agree on the cheap digital scale, if your not going to go big on a good digital then a low cost quality balance beam will give you better/more consistant service. Once you have read and understand and can practice safe reloading I would suggest one of the "Load-All" books that is cartridge specific, I know Midway used to have them. Its a little book for say the .308 that has all bullet and powder manufacturers data on that specific cartridge. Last one I bought was about $8.00 and it will give you a wide range of loading data for your round of choice. Link:

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=558392

 

[MER0828]

Re: Beginning reloader could use some reassurement

My first reloader was a Lee Kit, it was fine to start, wish I would have started with an RCBS but thats besides the point. First you need a good reloading manual and make sure you READ. I was lucky enough to sit down with an older fella who just took to teaching me everything i needed to know. Would be helpful if you could bump into someone who knows what they are doing at your local range to give you a few pointers.
I agree with most everyone, use your beam scale until you have the funds to go with a quality digital.

 

[2cants]

Re: Beginning reloader could use some reassurement

+1 on the digital scales. The consistent amount of powder in the case is critical for consistent results, even for beginners.

I use a RCB 750 digital. I found that when mains powered the scales could drift, but when on battery it is very stable. With the digital, I can measure very accurately, and with not mechanical scales - there no parallax in the needle or sticky bearings like at our reloading clubrooms.

I use the Lee's reloading press for my bolt rifles and Dillon 550 for semi's. The Lee and RCB's systems gives me consistent sub MOA shooting even with my cheap rifles.

BTW, the scales costs me more than the LEE press (exlc dies).

 

[krink85]

Re: Beginning reloader could use some reassurement

I read my book (lyman) 3 times front to back before I started to hammer out rounds. The only problem with the Lee is that it neck sizes so you are limited to the brass you use. I have 2 308's and one doesn't like the neck sized cases. Anyway the lee works and with practice you will get good at it. Read the instructions and then really read them and you should be fine. I will say this about the system, after some investigating and seating bullets I found a number I could use to get my OAL with in +/- .005 (not to bad when you are using a hammer). I did a lot of bullet pulling and a lot of measuring. If you want to know what I did PM me and I will take pics of the steps.

 

[rrflyer]

Re: Beginning reloader could use some reassurement

DO NOT CHEAP OUT ON YOUR SCALE!

I was using a cheapo 20 dollar electronic scale from cabelas. I recently had to pull a bunch of .308 bullets and weighed the powder as it came out to put into another prepped case. In some cases it was as much as .5 to .6 grains off the desired amount.


I have a feeling this variance was a big reason for my frustration with shooting when I started stretching the distance.

 

[Apache]

Re: Beginning reloader could use some reassurement

Thank you so much for the advice everyone. After your input, I'll definitely not skimp on the scale and a good manual. As far as the Lee Classic, no one has said, "DONT DO IT," so I'll take that as a good thing.

I shoot out to about 600 yards, which is the maximum my range will allow, although I have a 1000 yard range available to me for a nominal fee. I would really like to develop some sub MOA loads that are decent out to either range. I know this is going to be pushing it, but I just want to develop a little more skill and get a lot more range time out of the money I put into it.

I only have two rifles at the moment, my Rem 700 .308 I bought my freshman year of college, and a Marlin .22 I got for some short range marksmanship practice. So there is no issue of mixing up the .308 brass.

Heres a picture of my setup:

Dont mind the roommate, hah. He's not a half bad spotter.

Basically I'm just trying to get into a great hobby that will help me when I finish my degree and become a police officer. I want to become great, and reloading will definitely help me refine my skills.

 

[bohem]

Re: Beginning reloader could use some reassurement

You're soon to find out what "reloading addiction" means...

Which Marlin 22 do you have? I just recently replaced the trigger and sear in my Model 25N, somewhere around 30,000 rounds it wouldn't reliably stay cocked anymore, I've had it since I was 10 and it still goes to the range with me almost everytime. Those 22's are great training tools.