Bell & Carlson Target/Competition Stock

[Phil3]

I cannot find much info on the Bell & Carlson so wondered if anyone here has any experience with it. Besides your opinion of it, I am also wondering how large the barrel channel is.

It is difficult to find a stock similar to this with an adjustable cheekrest..., for a Howa, at a price I can swallow. I really wish it had an option for LOP and butt stock adjustments, and a flatter stock bottom, but short of a McMillan, Manners, or a chassis (all a lot more money), I can't find anything. I just shoot off a bench punching paper, but like the A-5 or AR grip, and prefer a mag fed gun. I like the MDT chassis, but feels like overkill for my needs.

 

[308pirate]

You might find some mismatch between the buttpad and the stock. Or the barrel might not be perfectly centered in the forearm.

Better pass on it.

 

[BoilerUP]

I like the stock - a LOT. The ergos are very very similar to a Manners T2A; the stock isn't as bombproof as the Manners from a construction perspective but for $395 it offers a lot of value. The barrel inlet will fit a Rem Varmint, my gunsmith had to do some inlet work for a Hawk Hill Marksman to properly fit and he bedded everything so no idea if there were any alignment issues.

I will say I recently picked up a KRG Bravo for a Nucleus barreled action that should be done in the next few weeks, and while I haven't yet shot it I did throw a 700 ADL Tactical into it and got behind it prone and like it way more than the Magpul Hunter (had a couple of those) and a traditional chassis (I liked the RPR but just could NOT get comfortable behind it, adjustments be damned).

Nice part about the Bravo is you don't have to spend a C-Note to get a DBM like you do with the Bell & Carlson.

 

[Phil3]

Thanks for your comments. It is OK the stock is not as bombproof as Manners...it is just going from car to bench and back. I am looking at the contour for the Marksman barrel. I would want a barrel at least that big, so may inquire with B&C about what size barrel it will take. My barrel will likely be at least as thick as the Marksman.

Interesting you got a Bravo. I ordered one, but reluctantly, returned it. Just not happy with the polymer quality and the fit, which stood in contrast to the flawless aluminum machine work and finish. I did not find the grip quite right either. I Have a B&C Medalist 2 with a Howa varmint action in 223, and I actually slightly preferred the grip on that stock to the Bravo. Too bad, because I really wanted to like the Bravo.

I have the Howa detachable mag system (polymer bottom "metal" and mag) for a 223. It feels lightweight and some may say flimsy, but for a bench guy like me, it seems to work fine. and directly replaces the Howa hinged floor plate. Mags are relatively cheap.

The stock you have is tempting because I like the grip (from what I can tell), the cheek rest, the overall look, color (Bravo not available in green for Howa), and can use the inexpensive DBM from Howa. Only other thing I wish it had is LOP adjustment or movable butt pad, but for the cost, can't expect all that.

Thanks for your opinion,,,it is helpful.

Phil

 

[hoop12]

Have you looked into any of the Boyd’s laminate stocks? They have a lot of options and are priced well.

 

[Phil3]

Yes, while not a fan of laminate stocks, I did look at Boyd's, and the "At-One", which is available for the Howa short action. Not really my style, and do not like the add on fore-ends, as they appear to be grippy, not a good thing for a bag. It also does not appear that the butt plate has any up/down or tilt movement. I can't really expect that given the $204 price for the Howa! The Varmint Pro is another option, but with a cheek rest option, it is closing in on the price of a B&C Target/Competition stock, which is synthetic and comes with an aluminum bedding block already.

Thanks for the suggestions...I spent some time reading reviews and looking the Boyd's products after your post.

Phil

 

[Nomad_chew]

I can not speak from experience but have you looked at stocky stocks? They make their own now and are comparable.

 

[Phil3]

Have you looked into any of the Boyd’s laminate stocks? They have a lot of options and are priced well.

Yes, I did look at Boyd's, and while inexpensive, I do not like the design of the At-One model, nor the Varmint Pro. I also am not enamored with wood. They look like great deals, just not my cup of tea. I did research them extensively after reading your suggestion. For that, thank you. I find myself rather stuck between quite inexpensive and limited features and high end, laden with features I do not need for a high price. Hard to find the middle ground for my Howa action. The closest so far is the Bell & Carlson, but wish I could get that with adjustable LOP and butt plate.

Thanks again.

Phil

 

[1J04]

Stocky's are a decent Stock for the price point. No bells n whistles, but easy enough to correct any LOP or Cheek Weld issues if you happen to have either problem.

 

[Phil3]

Nice rifle. May I ask what stock brand and model that is. Kind of looks like a Bell & Carlson, McMillan, or Manners, in a style that I like. That grip works well for me too, from what I have sampled.

Phil

 

[1J04]

Here you are. Check out Stocky's website. They may have what you're looking for without breaking the bank.

 

[Phil3]

Thank you. Unfortunately, Remington only, no Howa.

 

[1J04]

Crap. I thought they had Howa. My bad.

 

[Phil3]

No worry. Thanks for your suggestions. Scarcity of stocks for Howa is no surprise, but better than it used to be. B&C, Manners, McMillan, MDT, XLR, KRG, etc., all make stocks or chassis systems, but often times with limitations on models, colors, and magazines. They also seem to be lower end or high end, with not much in the $600 range. If B&C made the Target/Competition stock ($395) with adjustable LOP (spacers) and sold it for $500 or, I'd be all over that.

 

[Phil3]

I like the stock - a LOT. The ergos are very very similar to a Manners T2A; the stock isn't as bombproof as the Manners from a construction perspective but for $395 it offers a lot of value. The barrel inlet will fit a Rem Varmint, my gunsmith had to do some inlet work for a Hawk Hill Marksman to properly fit and he bedded everything so no idea if there were any alignment issues.

I will say I recently picked up a KRG Bravo for a Nucleus barreled action that should be done in the next few weeks, and while I haven't yet shot it I did throw a 700 ADL Tactical into it and got behind it prone and like it way more than the Magpul Hunter (had a couple of those) and a traditional chassis (I liked the RPR but just could NOT get comfortable behind it, adjustments be damned).

Nice part about the Bravo is you don't have to spend a C-Note to get a DBM like you do with the Bell & Carlson.

May I ask what contour barrel you are using in your Bell & Carlson Target/Competition stock? Did you have to open up the barrel channel?

Thanks,

Phil

 

[BoilerUP]

As mentioned in my post, the stock is designed for a Rem Varmint contour.

My rifle has a Hawk Hill Marksman, and yes my gunsmith had to do a little inlet work for it to fit.

 

[6brshooter]

I had that b&c stock on a 20" Howa varmint contour barreled action. It is a very nice stock, no it's not a manners or mcm, but it's also 400+ cheaper. Not sure where 308 pirate is going, but I've not saw any fitment or qc issues with b&c. I did skim bed the bedding block, but probably didn't need to. I used the metal bdl howa bottom metal and it dropped right in and fit tight.

 

[gconnoyer]

I have one on my 223 Savage.
Dropped right in, no modifications or inlet changes at all. I dont know what contour savage uses on their heavy barreled stuff but If I recall correctly its right around .900 at the muzzle, its a fairly straight taper contour.

Its a GREAT buy at $395. I dont know that you can get anything that rivals it for the price.
Full aluminum bedding block, great fit and finish, and an adjustable cheekpiece.

It is quite a bit lighter than my Manners are.
It has the same general shape as my T2A does but definitely feels different in both weight and the grip.
For any budget builds this will definitely be my go to stock though. Absolutely zero complaints with the stock at all.

 

[308pirate]

I have one on my 223 Savage.

Its a GREAT buy at $395. I dont know that you can get anything that rivals it for the price.
Full aluminum bedding block, great fit and finish, and an adjustable cheekpiece.

For Savage users, definitely. For anything the KRG Bravo is available, not so much. That B&C needs $200+ of DBM capability that the Bravo includes in its $349 - $439 basic price, and will still lack the modularity of a KRG product.

 

[Chili47]

KRG bravo $439 the feel of a stock with the benefits of a chassis.

 

[308pirate]

Not sure where 308 pirate is going, but I've not saw any fitment or qc issues with b&c.

I've had more than one and there's always been minor little things to fiddle with them. KRG, not so much.

 

[jpspeeddemon]

Stocky's are a decent Stock for the price point. No bells n whistles, but easy enough to correct any LOP or Cheek Weld issues if you happen to have either problem.

View attachment 6982832View attachment 6982833

what bolt knob is that? I like the small one

 

[flatland1]

I've used several of the B&C #2093 stocks on Howa short action bbl'd actions & builds, very pleased with them. If you put a bbl'd action into one of these stocks and find that the bbl isn't centered in the channel, check the way the tang fits in the rear of the action inlet - you will nearly always find that one side of the action tang is hitting the stock inlet harder than the other side, and just a little work with a Dremel to relieve that pressure will center the bbl up just fine.

 

[XLR308]

I had that b&c stock on a 20" Howa varmint contour barreled action. It is a very nice stock, no it's not a manners or mcm, but it's also 400+ cheaper. Not sure where 308 pirate is going, but I've not saw any fitment or qc issues with b&c. I did skim bed the bedding block, but probably didn't need to. I used the metal bdl howa bottom metal and it dropped right in and fit tight.

I have two B&C stocks and like them both, for what they are they are a very good value and quality.
The medalist style 2 I have a rem700 SPS varmint in has been a great stock and the barrel is dead nuts straight in the channel but I did have to relieve some material for clearance of the safety lever on the Jewel trigger. The other is an Alaskan II with a long action rem 700 that the barrel is off quite a bit in the channel just haven't gotten around to relieving it and bedding to correct the issue.
So I can identify with @308pirate comments neither was a straight drop in fit.

 

[6brshooter]

I've never had any off in about 5-6 over the years. I've saw more issues with hs prec being crooked, but both these brands are decent entry stocks. Yes a krg w3, got a couple, are great, also the bravo is really nice for the price. I've got a manners t2a mini chassis and the mini chassis is crooked. Not much, but for the badger efr to be centered around barrel to is visibly closer to the left edge of forend. I also had to open and reseal barrel channel on the left side, it wasn't touching or anything, more aesthetics. In other words, a 900 new manners can suffer from less than perfect alignment, just like a 250-400 entry stock.

 

[Phil3]

BoilerUp, sorry for asking about the contour again. Brain fart on my part.

It is mentioned the B&C stock is good for a "budget" build, but what I am losing with the B&C vs a Manners, McMillan, etc.? All I want is a good stock to allow paper punching (maybe steel), off a bench w/focus on accuracy, shooting 6.5 x 47. I need a stock that maximizes accuracy and allows good fit to me. B&C told me they will lengthen the LOP for a very modest cost, up to 15", if I need.

I hesitate on B&C a bit because my first B&C Medalist Style 2/Howa 223 fitment was awful, requiring a gunsmith to fix and bed. My choices so far.

1) B&C Target Competition ($395) + Howa DBM bottom metal ($48), + one Howa mag ($48) = $491.
2) KRG Bravo Chassis ($439) + one mag ($64 w/purchase of chassis) = $503.
2) B&C Target Competition ($395) + bedding ($270) + Howa DBM bottom metal ($48), + one mag ($48) = $761.
3) MDT LSS - XL Gen2 chassis ($500) + skeleton stock ($300) + grip ($30) + one mag ($40) = $870.

Bedding the B&C puts the stock in an entirely new class, so wondering if bedding needed to achieve top accuracy on the B&C.

Thanks,

Phil

 

[Kickin45]

Is this stock available for the Howa 1500?

 

[Phil3]

See here for the Howa, Bell & Carlson.

https://www.bellandcarlson.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=1119

Phil

 

[XLR308]

BoilerUp, sorry for asking about the contour again. Brain fart on my part.

It is mentioned the B&C stock is good for a "budget" build, but what I am losing with the B&C vs a Manners, McMillan, etc.? All I want is a good stock to allow paper punching (maybe steel), off a bench w/focus on accuracy, shooting 6.5 x 47. I need a stock that maximizes accuracy and allows good fit to me. B&C told me they will lengthen the LOP for a very modest cost, up to 15", if I need.

I hesitate on B&C a bit because my first B&C Medalist Style 2/Howa 223 fitment was awful, requiring a gunsmith to fix and bed. My choices so far.

1) B&C Target Competition ($395) + Howa DBM bottom metal ($48), + one Howa mag ($48) = $491.
2) KRG Bravo Chassis ($439) + one mag ($64 w/purchase of chassis) = $503.
2) B&C Target Competition ($395) + bedding ($270) + Howa DBM bottom metal ($48), + one mag ($48) = $761.
3) MDT LSS - XL Gen2 chassis ($500) + skeleton stock ($300) + grip ($30) + one mag ($40) = $870.

Bedding the B&C puts the stock in an entirely new class, so wondering if bedding needed to achieve top accuracy on the B&C.

Thanks,

Phil

Bedding is not needed with the v-block in the B&C unless there is a gap between it and the recoil lug.
If you are not the DIY or tinkering type then the KRG might be a better choice.
I personally don't care for the feel of plastic but they are very popular around here and a really good value for all they come with.

 

[Phil3]

Bedding is not needed with the v-block in the B&C unless there is a gap between it and the recoil lug.
If you are not the DIY or tinkering type then the KRG might be a better choice.
I personally don't care for the feel of plastic but they are very popular around here and a really good value for all they come with.

On my B&C Medalist 2, there was a gap between the bedding block and recoil lug of 1/16" to 3/32"! The rear tang was jammed against the rear of the stock, acting as a recoil lug. I had to have a gunsmith fix it, making that stock rather costly. The B&C seems like a good deal, but if I have to drop another $270 with my gunsmith to make it fit my action, not so economical.

 

[XLR308]

On my B&C Medalist 2, there was a gap between the bedding block and recoil lug of 1/16" to 3/32"! The rear tang was jammed against the rear of the stock, acting as a recoil lug. I had to have a gunsmith fix it, making that stock rather costly. The B&C seems like a good deal, but if I have to drop another $270 with my gunsmith to make it fit my action, not so economical.

Like I said if not the DIY type a different stock would be recommended, I do my own bedding and stock work so that obviously saves me quite a bit of money and wait time. Are my bedding jobs the quality of what LRI does, hell no but they suit me just fine.
By the time you buy the stock, have it inletted for whatever bottom metal you want and pay a gunsmith to bed it you are into the same price range as a Manners or McMillan.
I personally think the B&C stock in your first post you were asking about is a great option for your intended use though I prefer the flat bottom section at the rear like on the A5 as they seem to track better for me in a rear bag.
They aren't as flexible for elevation changes as the B&C COMP you listed that has the taper from the toe to grip but I prefer to squeeze a rear bag for fine changes, even a rabbit ear bag when shooting from a bench, right or wrong it's just the method I use.

 

[Phil3]

Thanks for your perspective. I would do my bedding, but do not think it wise to make my first try on the $395 B&C stock. Looks to me there are more ways to screw this up than get it right on a first try!

So, I have to assume I will have to pay someone for the bedding ($270). That brings the cost to $665. A Manners T2A is like the B&C, but starts out at $655. Add in bedding for $270, and it becomes $925. Inexpensive Howa bottom metal and very close to $1,000. Ouch! Pretty hard to justify when a chassis from MDT, XLR, etc., with more buttstock adjustments and needs no bedding (supposedly) can be had for less. I have not been able to lay my hands on a chassis, so not sure if I would like the feel vs a conventional stock.

I have both a light soft rear bag and a heavy rabbit ear Sinclair bag. I am undecided on what I prefer for the bottom of the stock.

I am tempted by the B&C, but the fitment disaster with the last B&C and cost of bedding gives me pause. Wish bedding was not so expensive!

Thanks.

Phil

 

[flatland1]

I don't know how anyone could charge $270 to skim bed a B&C stock that already has an aluminum bedding block. Honestly, in most cases, I doubt there's any real need or benefit to bedding one of these stocks. I usually do it, but that's because it's such a simple process, and I've done it many times, so there's no real downside apart from the half-hour or so that it takes to do it.

 

[BoilerUP]

I was charged $75 by my gunsmith to skim bed my B&C stock on the rifle I posted above.

Could I have done it? Sure, even have Devcon...but it was too easy to simply have him do it while he was putting everything together.

 

[XLR308]

@Phil3 if you are a detail oriented person by nature you would do just fine bedding it yourself, just as Flatland1 has stated it's much simpler than most realize especially considering the stock has a v-block chassis type set up allready and may not even need bedded.
The prep work and having everything at arms length ready to go is the biggest task in the bedding process, there are many on here more knowledgeable than me on the subject but I don't consider it an exhaustive or complicated task.

 

[6brshooter]

Howa actions are a little different to bed than a round receiver like a rem or savage. U need to add a layer of tape to sides of action, along with sides, bottom, and front of lug. The lug taping is no different between all rifles, but the action sides need to be taped on a howa.

 

[6brshooter]

I've only bedded one howa, after I consulted with a smith that specializes on win70 and has done a bunch of howas. I did one howa, turned out perfect, but I've bedded 20-30 rifles before it. As delivered, the stock does exert some stress on action, as indicated by stress check. On mine the, the front screw was pulling down too much, because the lug was floating above lug pocket. After bedding it was perfect and no barrel movement was exhibited during stress check.

 

[flatland1]

Taping the sides of a Howa action is news to me - never tried it, whether bedding into a McMillan A5 or the B&C #2093. Not saying it's not a good idea, just never tried it - and have had very good accuracy results. I've not taped the lug either, mostly because it's tapered at the front, and that makes it easy to remove the bbl'd action from the cured bedding by working the muzzle end of the bbl until it just does break loose, then wiggling both front & rear of the action to get it to pop out of the bedding. Seems to me that the Howas are a little easier to get out of freshly cured bedding than some other actions that have recoil lugs with parallel front & rear surfaces. I will say that the practice of taping the sides of a Howa action & the lug sounds like cheap insurance towards getting a good job done; might try it next time I bed one.

 

[308pirate]

Jesus fucking Christ, either get a KRG Bravo already or pay the money for a full up custom stock. Either way stop your endless nitpicking.

I bet you're a lot of fun at parties........

 

[6brshooter]

I had a brain fart, the bottom, front, and rear(of course) of lug stays untapped. The sides of lug and action need a single layer of tape. If the sides of action arent machined perfectly, and they're not, then they will try to act like recoil lugs. The only thing recoil should act upon is recoil lug. It was explained a lot better to me by a sharp individual. Can stars align and not cause any issues like yours, yep for sure. My groups shrunk .5 moa with 3 factory loads and my favorite generic pet load, after bedding.

 

[308pirate]

The bottom of the Howa recoil lug must never be taped because the front action screw goes right into it. Any gap between the bottom of the lug and the bedding will induce a bending moment on the receiver when the front action screw is tightened.

 

[6brshooter]

Yeah I corrected that in the post above yours, 308 pirate. It was 2-2.5yrs ago when I bedded the howa in that b&c, haven't bedded a howa since then. I was thinking rem700/savage style lug, forgot howa front screw threads into the lug. Before I bedded the howa, I measured gap between lug bottom and lug pocket. I made a shim from steel feeler gauge with a hole drilled through it, that shrank groups but was redneckish. It did prove where accuracy loss was coming from, so bedded promptly. I agree with you, the krg might be the better option, especially if hes got to hire out the bedding work.

 

[spife7980]

I agree with you, the krg might be the better option, especially if hes got to hire out the bedding work.

The OP is the guy that has already had a bravo but returned it because he didnt like that the plastic pieces didnt line up. Not sure he ever tried loosening the three screws for the grips and just repositioning them or not (for got it was a bravo and not xray) but he doesnt seem to be anymore mechanically inclined than a rock. He needs to pay someone to do this for him it seems.

 

[308pirate]

The OP is the guy that has already had a bravo but returned it because he didnt like that the plastic pieces didnt line up. Not sure he ever tried loosening the three screws for the grips and just repositioning them or not but he doesnt seem to be anymore mechanically inclined than a rock. He needs to pay someone to do this for him it seems.

A customer service nightmare if there ever was one.

 

[Phil3]

Spife7980, I didn’t loosen anything up on the Bravo to try and make the Bravo stock fit better. You find the fit and finish of the Bravo acceptable for the $439 cost, and perhaps are willing to fiddle to improve fit. My expectations of the Bravo are not yours. I simply expect better for the cost. There are people on both sides. There is no provable right or wrong. I fully respect your opinion...I just don't share it and do not insult because of it.

You know nothing of my mechanical abilities. I regularly use my milling machine and lathe, the latter of which I rebuilt from the ground up. Ford, Chevy to Lamborghini performance engine work are part of my background, as is building an accuracy focused AR-15 that consistently shoots 5 shots under ½ MOA. My 6BR is chambered to my reamer specs.

With mechanical work. I don't embark on something unless I know what I am doing and can do it to my high standards, OR, is something I can afford to make a mistake on and learn from. I am not about to apply epoxy material to a $400 stock (B&C), for the first time, hope for the best, and then take a Dremel, file, etc., to try and fix mistakes. I would gladly try this myself if I had a crappy stock and a spare barreled action to practice with, and perhaps a mentor, but I don’t.

As for returning the Bravo, it was hardly a “nightmare” for anyone. I never explored taking the Bravo apart for the reason above, but would never fiddle with it if I thought there was a chance of return.

 

[Phil3]

I am the OP, and am now awaiting the arrival of the Bell & Carlson Target/Competition stock a couple of guys above mentioned they had and showed photos of. With a 10% off sale. it was $355.50 vs the normal $395. I will be using Howa polymer bottom metal ($48), and I already have a Howa polymer 10 round mag (normally $45+), so into this for pretty low cost and if it needs bedding or fitting, I will pay for that. It might need barrel channel opening depending on rifle contour, but will see.

The LOP on this stock is 13.75", which is probably good my build, and wanted the extra mass this stock offers (3.5 lbs.). I wanted some extra mass, and this offers it.

Phil

 

[Rstrick0352]

I am the OP, and am now awaiting the arrival of the Bell & Carlson Target/Competition stock a couple of guys above mentioned they had and showed photos of. With a 10% off sale. it was $355.50 vs the normal $395. I will be using Howa polymer bottom metal ($48), and I already have a Howa polymer 10 round mag (normally $45+), so into this for pretty low cost and if it needs bedding or fitting, I will pay for that. It might need barrel channel opening depending on rifle contour, but will see.

The LOP on this stock is 13.75", which is probably good my build, and wanted the extra mass this stock offers (3.5 lbs.). I wanted some extra mass, and this offers it.

Phil

I have a Shilen S7 heavy varmint profile on my B&C comp stock and there is plenty of room, you should not have to do any relieving. I really like the stock for the money. Got a good deal on some PTG bottom metal that was blemished and haven’t looked back. I have several B&Cs and for the money, I really like them. I installed flush cups and a seekins rail and made it even more versatile.

 

[Phil3]

Thanks for the barrel fitment tip...I appreciate that. That barrel looks plenty hefty, and doubt I will have any issues.

PTG is selling bottom metal (real metal) for Howa, and I might pop for that, but honestly, I have no real complaints over the Howa stuff, so... I may install an Anschutz rail on my B&C (available for it), so I can fit an F-Class style bipod and/or a Harris as I want. I very nearly bought the brown color you have, and after seeing yours in the pic, feel like maybe I should have, but I went with the Olive green and black spiderweb, just like the other B&C I have. Choosing the color was the hardest part!

You have a very nice pair of rifles there. I will too, once this is done, both in B&C stocks and Howa actions.

 

[flatland1]

I've used PTG DBM on all the Howas that I've set up with DBM. Aside from needing to mill a bit of clearance on the projection at the rear of the mag well that gets in the way of an AICS magazine fitting into the well, there's not much other work involved in the inlet for this DBM in a B&C stock. I spend about 5 min with a Dremel getting the Stealth DBM to fit - it's very simple, mostly getting the stock cut to match the radius at the rear of the DBM's mag housing.

 

[Phil3]

Thanks for that info on the PTG DBM product. I am puzzled as to why it was designed so that the tab at the rear of the action must be trimmed. KRG chassis can use AICS mags w/o trimming as I understand it. Maybe I am wrong. Also, I just looked at the Howa brand polymer bottom metal when installed on another Howa, and the action tab is not in the way of the Howa mag. Maybe the AICS mags are longer and as such, the bottom metal opening extends far enough back where the tab intrudes into the mag space. ??? The Howa mag can accommodate a round of about 2.83" - 2.85" long. Perhaps the AICS mag can do longer?