Benchmade cutting up guns

[Blue Sky Country]

What are you going to do with the 2 lower receivers that you are able to build with all those knives? I think you get my point. While there are certainly like-minded people out there, I wouldn't translate internet reaction into action. We live in a reactionary society. This has been snowballing, but in the next week or month(maybe) no one will be talking about it. Memes will be created. Comments will be made. Everyone is running on emotions right now, but soon they will decide that they have new things to be outraged at, and this will get pushed aside. There is always something to find to get upset about, and the speed of the internet provides such things at the rapid rate. I was pretty unhappy with netflix, but I sure as shit let my subscription expire before I stopped watching it. I'll use my knife out before letting it go as well. With the quality in a BM knife, I doubt that will be in my lifetime.

Was it a stupid business decision? Of course.
Was it a deliberate attack on the 2A? I really doubt it. Generally speaking, when companies are trying to make a statement or send a message, it is very clear. They will publicize it. Generally these things draw in one audience while pissing off another. I doubt anti-gunners are lining up to buy their knives now.
This isn't even near the level of the Dick's example, as that was directly motivated by an event, and directly aimed at "assault" rifle ownership.

I will keep my BM. Why? Because it serves more of a purpose in my pocket than I will by ceremoniously destroying it.

Even by what we are doing online right now talking about them and clowning them, they are already feeling cutting-torch grade heat, pun absolutely intended. These days, it can be literally career suicide for an individual or business to do something stupid, because social media will ensure that they would not be given a shred of mercy.

It is true what Benchmade did was a fraction of what Dick's done. When THAT fiasco exploded, I sure as hell have done my part in the collective ostracizing by creating and propagating memes, some of them downright lewd and sexually suggestive. (with a name like Dick's, it doesn't help them one bit) With the amount of heat generated by the firearms world, I was surprised that they have not rolled over and gone bankrupt right there.

 

[Scott037]

people still buy yeti coolers. i used to get free/cheap knives from them for fishing as a child being i rode my bike to where they where made at the time. none the less never bought one most likely wont now. id bet that those weren't donations to the left more bribe at corporate gun point (i have no proof just know the area well and moral landscape). the company does exist 10 minutes from Portland in a brand new building.

 

[Rthur]

I have an honest question: if so many of you care so much about their donation records (and rightfully so) why did you just wait till now to care? I mean this information was easily accessible well before this fiasco broke loose. You could have found this out before you bought your knives to begin with, correct?

Until recently the consevatives weren't the type to dig into a companies donation history.
In fact the light of day was only shown as a result of a pr stunt for the local popo.
It was assumed that a company that seems heavily backed by hunting and therefore shooting would
follow through in their business model.
To many companies are flirting with this game.
They can proceed at their own peril.

R

 

[hlee]

Dicks announced that they would no longer sell ar15 style rifles in their Field and Stream stores on Feb 28, 2018. That, and the "massive boycott" that resulted does not seem to have negatively impacted the business.

Dicks seems to be influenced by larger shifts in the buying habits of the sporting goods market. I was looking for a quote I saw during this time where someone said something to the effect that "the data on purchasing does not support the contention that those that buy guns also buy soccer balls." https://footwearnews.com/2018/busin...oods-gun-policy-increase-foot-traffic-519006/

 

[jb0311]

Even by what we are doing online right now talking about them and clowning them, they are already feeling cutting-torch grade heat, pun absolutely intended. These days, it can be literally career suicide for an individual or business to do something stupid, because social media will ensure that they would not be given a shred of mercy.

It is true what Benchmade did was a fraction of what Dick's done. When THAT fiasco exploded, I sure as hell have done my part in the collective ostracizing by creating and propagating memes, some of them downright lewd and sexually suggestive. (with a name like Dick's, it doesn't help them one bit) With the amount of heat generated by the firearms world, I was surprised that they have not rolled over and gone bankrupt right there.

No I get it, and don't pity them one bit. That is the nature of doing business in today's market. Every little detail is scrutinized and then fed to the masses. I fear though that the speed in which this happens is a disadvantage as well. Opinions are created well before the individual or company has a chance to wake up and have their coffee, let alone explain their side of the story. I know this story is hard to spin as a positive, but it could have definitely leaned more towards neutral after they were allowed to elaborate on the story. I mean look at the Covington story. That kid was crucified before he even made it back to Kentucky, thanks to social media and typical overboard reactionism. I am all for people spending their money where they want. They earned it, and deserve as much. But with social media, this type of reaction has clearly bled into our reactions of individuals, not just businesses. That Covington kid will always have this issue tied to his name now. Every time he applies for a job, the company will have to weigh to reaction to hiring him. All because no one bothered to wait till the story came out to splatter judgement all over social media.

With these things, business tends to return to normal within a short time period. People may initially sway their purchases, but eventually they will return to buying things based on convenience and value. A year from now (when Benchmade is still in business) when they have a knife that is at equal quality to a competitor, but cheaper in price, that knife will get purchased. We both know it.
I applaud those who only spend money on companies who share their views, but I think that is virtually impossible. I don't like the views of Proctor & Gamble, but they own the toiletry industry and I really don't have the time to research the political views of a company every time I buy deodorant.

 

[Lapuapalooza]

So, another honest question. Why does BM donate to democratic candidates? Is it because they have a moral obligation to be progressive? Or, are they located in Oregon where Democrats are going to win anyway, and- being a business with a desire to have a political connection should they need it- they donate to the candidate they think will win?

I understand your thought process to raise this question. The only thing I would bring up in response to your very honest and deep question would be...

Magpul left Colorado based on principle. I would love to see other companies pull out of areas that were counter productive to their livelihood or insulting to their customer base and the constitution instead of feeling the need to pander to them based on their location of residence.

 

[Pappakap]

I really don't have the time to research the political views of a company every time I buy deodorant.

I totally agree that I don’t look up the political persuasion of the farm Kroger’s buys onions from. However, when I using “disposable income” and shopping for hobbies I’m a little tighter fisted with my dollars. I promptly sold off a Daniel Defense M4A1 after their stunt. I didn’t want to but I couldn’t own it in good conscience. Same reason as much as I’d love a Tavor for the engineering I refuse to give IWI one cent.

 

[hlee]

I know that here, every gun is a good gun, a special snow flake, and deserving of a safe space to rest and take shelter. But, what do you do when that gun is- literally- garbage? You can't sell it, you can't give it away, you can't drop it in the garbage collection bin out back, and you don't have room to store them indefinitely?

Surely there is a "rightful owner" of every one of these weapons seized by the police. right? Maybe not. I would assume that the PD would try to find the owners of stolen firearms. But, what about firearms that were seized as evidence but there was no owner to return them to? Did this cache of weapons also include "buyback guns" or guns willfully turned into the police station? This is like the island of misfit toys, but there is no Santa Clause and no one loves them...

I'm really running low on righteous indignation.

 

[jb0311]

Until recently the consevatives weren't the type to dig into a companies donation history.
In fact the light of day was only shown as a result of a pr stunt for the local popo.
It was assumed that a company that seems heavily backed by hunting and therefore shooting would
follow through in their business model.
To many companies are flirting with this game.
They can proceed at their own peril.

R

It seems as though they still aren't, as evident by all those who seem to have just now discovered the last 8 years of Benchmade's donation records. How many people that are being swayed by the donation history info this week, knew about it last week? Unless by "recently" you mean "in the last hour." My point is, from the strong feelings produced by that graphic, you think they would have cared enough to have learned that on their own. Generally, if I am that passionate about something, I tend to research it pretty thoroughly, not wait until it falls into my lap. Yes, this issue led to the graphic being shared, but it's not like it was hidden away in a classified file somewhere. A quick google search would have brought it up.

No, my guess is that they really don't care all that much, it is just more fuel on the fire. A fire that will burn out quickly.

 

[hlee]

I understand your thought process to raise this question. The only thing I would bring up in response to your very honest and deep question would be...

Magpul left Colorado based on principle. I would love to see other companies pull out of areas that were counter productive to their livelihood or insulting to their customer base and the constitution instead of feeling the need to pander to them based on their location of residence.

I'm sure we can find a place for them in Texas if they are looking to move.
I've got a few benchmades. I won't buy anymore (that's as much finance as it is indignation), and don't usually carry the few that I do own. But, I'll not take a loss to make a point no one will recognize. That's throwing good money after bad.

 

[jb0311]

I totally agree that I don’t look up the political persuasion of the farm Kroger’s buys onions from.

There are those that actually do that very thing. And to make sure the onions were not abused on that farm.

But on a serious note, I get what you are saying. Everyday purchases are one thing, and we tend to give more forethought to larger purchases. I tend to weigh my own convenience against the crimes of the company.

 

[Mwalex]

The reason I made the original post is because there are people that find things like this important and it will effect how they spend their "play" money.

Points have been made about the possible reasons why Benchmade has donated money to the Democratic party and I honestly do not care what their motivations have been. If it is due to the impact of local/state politics on their business I do not care. There have been many business over the past few years that have relocated because regional politics have been unacceptable. Benchmade can stay or go, that is their decision, but their political donations are not in line with mine. I have not researched their political affiliations because I do not buy their knives. I think there are better values for the money but they do make good knives.

Do any of us research every company that we buy goods from? I doubt that but articles like this will help shed light onto some on the ones we do business with, even if it is a hobby rather than a necessity.

A point was made about how social media can make people jump to conclusions a little too quickly, especially before Benchmade had a chance to tell their part of the story. That is a very good point but holds little to no value for me and here are some reasons why. Benchmade has to understand their market demographics and customers. I would guess there is a substantial overlap in people that own guns and knives. There is no way that someone in Benchmade did not understand the impact of that media post, if not then their management is out of touch with the current political climate. Was Benchmade the ONLY local company the police could have used to cut up the guns? I doubt that. Could Benchmade have turned down the request, I am sure they could have AND explained it in such a way as to not piss off the cops. Could Benchmade have cut up the guns and asked that it not be posted to social media or have their names left out of the post? Sure they could have.

At the end of the day Benchmade was a willing participant in cutting up the guns for the police. With the information in the public domain everyone can now decide how that impacts where they spend their money.

I am always amazed by how discussions on this board can be so well thought out and civil. This is not the case is some of the other boards I frequent.

 

[Blue Sky Country]

No I get it, and don't pity them one bit. That is the nature of doing business in today's market. Every little detail is scrutinized and then fed to the masses. I fear though that the speed in which this happens is a disadvantage as well. Opinions are created well before the individual or company has a chance to wake up and have their coffee, let alone explain their side of the story. I know this story is hard to spin as a positive, but it could have definitely leaned more towards neutral after they were allowed to elaborate on the story. I mean look at the Covington story. That kid was crucified before he even made it back to Kentucky, thanks to social media and typical overboard reactionism. I am all for people spending their money where they want. They earned it, and deserve as much. But with social media, this type of reaction has clearly bled into our reactions of individuals, not just businesses. That Covington kid will always have this issue tied to his name now. Every time he applies for a job, the company will have to weigh to reaction to hiring him. All because no one bothered to wait till the story came out to splatter judgement all over social media.

With these things, business tends to return to normal within a short time period. People may initially sway their purchases, but eventually they will return to buying things based on convenience and value. A year from now (when Benchmade is still in business) when they have a knife that is at equal quality to a competitor, but cheaper in price, that knife will get purchased. We both know it.
I applaud those who only spend money on companies who share their views, but I think that is virtually impossible. I don't like the views of Proctor & Gamble, but they own the toiletry industry and I really don't have the time to research the political views of a company every time I buy deodorant.

That is true. After all, we live in a money dominated society, just like the rest of the world. When everybody is micro-managing their finances and keeping their eyes out for bargains and the next big sale, dollars and cents often override latent political beliefs.

I have never thought about the political affiliations of a gazillion companies when I am buying groceries either. And hospitals, and the big figures financing and backing them, tend to be EXTREMELY anti-gun. But all of us need their services now and then.

Heck, even gun manufacturers can generate plenty of shenanigans of their own. Like several members in this thread have mentioned about Gaston Glock making some comments where he did not want to sell handguns to civilians. As a Glock owner, (had a 9mm in the past and getting a .45 caliber soon) I was more than familiar with this and more than a little displeased when that was making ripples. I even sent an email to them asking: "What about concentration camp guards? They are government..." Never got a reply. Didn't expect to, it was just to get them thinking. But it doesn't mean that I don't appreciate Glock pistols.

 

[hlee]

Back to "Glock-- The Rise of America's Gun," Gaston was- apparently- easily swayed when the realities of the American gun market were laid before him. You see, the real money in the pistol market is in civilian sales. The average civilian won't buy a gun the cops aren't buying- the PD seal of approval- so if you can win the PD market, the dollars will soon flow from the civilian market. How did they win the PD market? They- essentially- gave away the guns to the PDs, in exchange for their colt, S&W, and other revolvers.

Also, during the assault weapons ban, Glock used their PD trade in program to augment their stockpile of "pre-ban" Glock 17s and "high capacity magazines"- the manufacture of which they had to discontinue on September 13,1994. They then resold these pre-ban pistols and magazines on the civilian market- at a tidy profit.

 

[Rthur]

It seems as though they still aren't, as evident by all those who seem to have just now discovered the last 8 years of Benchmade's donation records. How many people that are being swayed by the donation history info this week, knew about it last week? Unless by "recently" you mean "in the last hour." My point is, from the strong feelings produced by that graphic, you think they would have cared enough to have learned that on their own. Generally, if I am that passionate about something, I tend to research it pretty thoroughly, not wait until it falls into my lap. Yes, this issue led to the graphic being shared, but it's not like it was hidden away in a classified file somewhere. A quick google search would have brought it up.

No, my guess is that they really don't care all that much, it is just more fuel on the fire. A fire that will burn out quickly.

By recently I mean in the last 2 years or less.
It may be a flash in the pan.
I, for one, think we should be more careful where we spend our dollars.
Sitka had their own version of this recently.
Something that causes this lack of background verification.
Conservatives rarely live their lives with a political reason/thought behind their daily decisions and
purchases.
This would include discretionary spending on hobbies.
Once they find out they've been dupped you get the reaction we've seen on social media.
They have every right to donate to whatever political party they choose.
As a business, in their line of work, they had better consider who their customer base is.

R

 

[Mike Casselton]

I'm

That's a real bitch. I have quite a few benchmade and bought bought 2 more for myself and one for my old man for Christmas. I'm running out of places to spend money.

Well, fugg. There's a lot of cool stuff I want. You could spend your money on me big boy.

 

[jb0311]

By recently I mean in the last 2 years or less.
It may be a flash in the pan.
I, for one, think we should be more careful where we spend our dollars.
Sitka had their own version of this recently.
Something that causes this lack of background verification.
Conservatives rarely live their lives with a political reason/thought behind their daily decisions and
purchases.
This would include discretionary spending on hobbies.
Once they find out they've been dupped you get the reaction we've seen on social media.
They have every right to donate to whatever political party they choose.
As a business, in their line of work, they had better consider who their customer base is.

R

No, I get what you are saying. To be honest I tend to have a bias towards social media in general. By that, I mean I try to believe that what I see on FB is not representative of a population sample size. Rather, more of "the loudest in the room is heard." Can you imagine how well this discussion would have gone on FB? Yes, I know this is still social media, but this is an outlier. Why I don't take FB as a representative of the population is because what I read on there. Mostly it seems as though it is people in their 40's-60's that are calling each other libtards or trumptards. To me, that is on the same level of calling someone a doodie head. Adults. Conservatives and Republicans. Either one of us could find a conversation like that in under 5 minutes. That is what is common on FB, and if I am taking that as a true sample size, I would have to believe that behavior is common outside of FB as well. Like most of us, I have seen the outrage of the week come and go for years now. We both know this will blow over, and if history tells us anything, they will continue to do fine as a business no matter the customer base.

Now, to address your point on where we spend our money...I completely agree. With both you and @Mwalex . That is what makes the consumer market work. There are companies that I will not do business for certain reasons myself. Do I think it will hurt them? Of course not. Not the point. In this case, I don't feel that BM is attacking my values, the 2A, or gun ownership in general. That could change, if more details come forth, but not a moment before. Hell, even if they had made the post and not the PD would have played a factor. I mentioned before, it was a stupid business move, but I seriously doubt that they were trying to make a statement. If this was 20 years ago, no one would have batted an eye (social media or not). We just live in a fragile time, where there are numerous issues that can send the social media world into a frenzy just by the slightest bump. I just try to stay in my own yard when this happens. If I see a good deal on a BM, I'll still buy it. I haven't bought one in years though, for a couple of reasons: 1) My pocket knife from them is still going strong since I bought it over 10 years ago, and 2) I have a great pro deal on ZT which I like more.

 

[Blue Sky Country]

The average civilian won't buy a gun the cops aren't buying- the PD seal of approval- so if you can win the PD market, the dollars will soon flow from the civilian market.

Nowhere else has this phenomena been seen more clearly than in the case of Hi-Point Firearms. That is one company with some of the most kickass customer service policies ever seen, and their guns are rugged, dependable and quite economically priced. Yet, compared to the other names in the firearms industry, Hi-Point barely gets the recognition that it deserves, 1- because they have no government and law enforcement contracts anywhere. And 2- the high numbers of 'gangstas' and other individuals of less-than-reputable intent using them surely gave them a bad name.

Popular entertainment and breaking news events also have a tremendous impact on the popularity and sales of certain types of firearms. Two notable examples are the Smith & Wesson .44 Magnum, (sales skyrocketed and the used market was soon inundated with them after the release of Dirty Harry in 1971) and the Sig Sauer P-226. (reports of it's use in the hands of a US Navy Seal in killing Osama bin Laden also helped drive a sales increase)

 

[Velocity Chad]

I have a much bigger issue with them donating to Democrats than cutting up the guns honestly.

On the high point note...HAHA! surely you are joking that you think the reason high point doesn't get recognition is because the military and police don't use them. I think it may be more about the looks, quality, weight, and being cast from old recycled hot wheels.

 

[Blue Sky Country]

I have a much bigger issue with them donating to Democrats than cutting up the guns honestly.

On the high point note...HAHA! surely you are joking that you think the reason high point doesn't get recognition is because the military and police don't use them. I think it may be more about the looks, quality, weight, and being cast from old recycled hot wheels.

Oh trust me, that too...I know all about that since I owned a Model-JHP45 in the past.

It has never jammed on me or had any malfunctions............But you can't pay me enough to actually carry the thing around. It's a fucking war club that shoots bullets, and would function perfectly as a war club in close quarters...Excellent general purpose home defense gun, gotta say that.