Benefit from a Kestrel?

[BigRed308]

Here is a little background: Fairly new to long range shooting, more of a casual shooter-not a competitor. Been using the WAG method to make my wind calls and starting to learn what wind holds to make with certain winds. I have purchased a chronograph from a local shooter but not had the time to set it up. I am shooting factory ammo. With little/ sometimes if any wind, my last range trip I was able to work my way from 100 to 750.

Now, my question is: would I benefit from a kestrel purchase or more ammo and time behind the rifle?

 

[M8541Reaper]

More ammo and time is always the way to go but understanding/recording your environment is extremely important. If you shoot in areas with good cell service, then there are plenty of great weather apps that pull from nearby stations. This info will give you a close-enough data set to be successful.

Personally, I've never used a kestrel for reading wind while shooting, unless it was to teach reading wind. However, I am a firm believer that being able to read mirage is the key to making an accurate wind call. Read the mirage as if you are reading waves/water current. Once you can see/understand the velocities, your calls will only become more accurate...and ultimately (should) lead to an increased percentage of 1st rd impacts. #SpoilerRoundsAreForBootsAndCommoners

Now as for those cool high speed guys with the Kestrel 5700 BT/iLink/Ballistic tech that runs their system's profile, I've never used it but definitely would like to try it out and see how it compares to the traditional method of reaching out. I just have a hard time justifying $600 when I have a 4500NV that's served me well on three continents lol. One day I'll get a Chrono and 5700 (probably will be an 8700 model by then lol).

Good luck!

 

[Alabusa]

Get more ammo or possibly use the Kestrel money to get into reloading.

 

[Meety Peety]

I think the question I would ask you is, are you content with your current ability to read and call the wind or are you looking to improve upon those skills? If you are looking to improve, IMO a wind meter is a tool that can help you with that task. The higher end Kestrels have a lot of features, but if that doesn't fit within your budget, you can still accomplish a lot with a Weather Flow meter and BalisticsArc for somewhere around $80-$90.

 

[SporterII]

Here is a little background: Fairly new to long range shooting, more of a casual shooter-not a competitor. Been using the WAG method to make my wind calls and starting to learn what wind holds to make with certain winds. I have purchased a chronograph from a local shooter but not had the time to set it up. I am shooting factory ammo. With little/ sometimes if any wind, my last range trip I was able to work my way from 100 to 750.

Now, my question is: would I benefit from a kestrel purchase or more ammo and time behind the rifle?

Ever have to ask what's the temp now?
I think a basic kestrel and a few chosen range cards will go a long way.

 

[Subwrx300]

^^yep.^^.

Like everything, it depends on your purpose/goals. The benefit of a basic anemometer (Kestrel, Weather Flow, or anything similar) is the ability to set a reference value for what you feel/see.

It's a lot easier to learn to bracket the wind when you can learn to feel 1-3mph vs 3-5mph, etc. Without that reference value it is tough to have a "measurement" to put against your feel.

 

[BigRed308]

That was my concern. I can feel the winds blowing hard or it is pretty calm today. However, as I start to stretch a 308 out to 1000 I have noticed wind is just as big as dope. Thus, I want to improve in this area. I would ideally like to have my ballistic solver and weather information tied into one convent place. Which kestrel does this lead me to? I am a little fuzzy on the models offered currently? Are there any new models on the way out?

 

[BigRed308]

Ever have to ask what's the temp now?
I think a basic kestrel and a few chosen range cards will go a long way.

Could you delve deeper into the "chosen range cards?"

 

[SporterII]

pack specific cards to cover that property/ conditions.

 

[BigRed308]

Thanks! Glad that was as simple as I thought. Do you have any suggestions on where to purchase printed cards? I know its a waste of money to some, but I am a neat freak. I would like to have something neatly organized and laminated. I was going to order some of the vortex dope disk for my flip cap but it seems they have done away with them.

 

[nexusfire]

Kestrel with the AB engine is useful. Getting the density altitude from it and plugging into the solver is helpful.

 

[Subwrx300]

That was my concern. I can feel the winds blowing hard or it is pretty calm today. However, as I start to stretch a 308 out to 1000 I have noticed wind is just as big as dope. Thus, I want to improve in this area. I would ideally like to have my ballistic solver and weather information tied into one convent place. Which kestrel does this lead me to? I am a little fuzzy on the models offered currently? Are there any new models on the way out?

If convenience and speed is your goal, Kestrel 5700 AB Elite is the way to go. Your ballistic data/solver is stored on device so that you can set target distance and orientation, relative wind direction and strength, shooting angle, temp, pressure, humidity and more all at the same time. When you see a solution it's based on live data from all measured environmentals.

The main reason I like it the 5700 Elite: super solid elevation data for all conditions. I store all rifles in same device, which makes it easy to swap between rifles or test new loads at distance range.

The only major advantages to Kestrel over say a WeatherFlow meter on your phone (which can also store data, has solver and tracks weather) are durability and battery life. The Kestrel is weather proof, super easy to use one-handed with gloves and battery life is measured in months vs hours.

If you like neat, precise all-in-one type package, a 5700 Elite w/AB will do that for sure. For basic wind speed though a 2500 will do, but so would any other anemometer and those are cheap online.

 

[FUNCTIONAL]

As others have said...

A kestrel with a ballistic solver will run you $600+ new and do everything you want and more.

If you are on a budget Ive been running the following and have had no handicap (not the best but I have won open and tactical matches)

-Kestrel 2500NV just to get atmospherics and get a rough idea of wind at the shooter (Approx $150)
-Some ballistic app. (I use shooter but theres plenty of good ones out there) ($10-$20)

You already have a chrono which is a major input for your ballistic app or fancy kestrel if you choose. Like you I'd love to have all of this in one device but its just worked so well its hard to justify the cost for a full blow Kestrel. If this money is either to be used for a kestrel or more training I would buy a case of ammo and the 2500NV + App.

 

[wigwamitus]

I have three kestrels ... 5700 Elite, 4500 and 2500NV ... strange but I still use the 2500NV because it gives me what I need easily ... low, avg and hi wind reading. My wind practice is from 500yds out to 1,050yds on my land and in one area I'm shooting over the tops of trees along a creek and the creek channels the wind and the bullets are flying high in the sky and since the kestrel is with me it doesn't tell me much about what is going on down at the creek or 60 feet up in the air. But it still gives me lo, avg and hi where I am and that is a useful baseline. I consider a range finder and a kestrel to be part of basic kit for long distance shooting. My targets are always in the same spots, but I always setup at random spots so I do not know the exact distance. The targets are IPSC (2/3) steel, 12x18 lower part with 6x6 face.

The plus of Applied Ballistics over Shooter (I have both) is that AB accounts for aero dynamic jump. For instance, this weekend I was shooting 155gr Berger bullets at 778yds ... shooter gives the same holds for left or right side wind ... 5.1 mils up, 1.5 mils windage.
AB gives 4.9 up and 1.3R for 90 degree 9 mph wind and 5.3 up and 1.6L for 270 wind. Thus accounting for aero-dynamic jump.
Now granted shooter's 5.1 and 1.5 are decent "in the middle" sorts of numbers ... but a .2 mil difference at 778 yds is 5.6 inches and I want to know about that 5.6 inches !! So, I recommend AB if you want to remove all the variables you can before you apply the "shooter" variable (i.e. the guy pulling the trigger)

 

[DownhillFromHere]

My experience is counter to what most are writing here. A buddy of mine has a fully-optioned Kestrel 5700 he doesn't use. He loaned it to me. I kept it about a month and found the thing to be very unintuitive to use (which is why he doesn't use it). Also, in the half-dozen matches I've shot, the wind "way out yonder" was seldom the same as the wind at the firing line. In fact, more than once, I remember being on a scope watching wind flags at different ranges... and seeing those flags blowing at all points of the the compass at one time.

I wouldn't mind having a simple wind meter to use in conjunction with Strelok Pro. But, in my experience if you're early along in pursuit of this sport, spend your $$$ on ammo or reloading instead of a Kestrel.

 

[Hollywood 6mm]

As much as I love my Kestrel, the cost makes it a really hard sell for new shooters. IMO, most are better off buying a WatherFlow and a bunch of ammo. If you get heavily into matches later on, then a Kestrel can be worth its weight in gold due to battery life, ruggedness, and ease of use (one device vs 2, etc). When the new basic ballistics model comes out later this year, I think it will be a solid option for newer shooters without spending a ton of money.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Have to pick between kestrel or something like a two day course? Pick the course.

Can afford both? Get the kestrel.

In addition to the benefits listed above, you don’t have to use your touchscreen phone which goes to shit when it’s raining an wet. Less time on your phone means less time screwing with other things on your phone like email, texts, and google while you should be focused on shooting.

You can also carry it around and use it to do wind reading drills whenever. And you won’t be holding a phone in one hand and a weatherflow in another hoping it connects.

If you can afford it, get a kestrel 5700 elite.

 

[Dthomas3523]

And I’d really start looking at training over just time and ammo.

I learned more at an RO 2 day course and probably only fired 70 live rounds than I ever would have with 700 live rounds without the instruction.

 

[BigRed308]

I will be attending a K&M course later this year. I have learned that it is easy to just throw rounds down range and eventually anyone can lob them in there. At the same time, I can only learn so much technique for free from the internet. My ballistic solver has been either the federal ballistic calculator or the free BallisticARC app. So either way, 2500 NV with Shooter or 5700 Elite would be a substantial upgrade. The first thing I am going to do is finally get my chrono readings for my ammo and see how accurate my free solvers are.

Following that, I hope to test out some kestrels to see which method works best for me. Then, the budget comes in place. Unfortunately, I haven't seen many Kestrels wonder around the for sale section.

 

[Dthomas3523]

I will be attending a K&M course later this year. I have learned that it is easy to just throw rounds down range and eventually anyone can lob them in there. At the same time, I can only learn so much technique for free from the internet. My ballistic solver has been either the federal ballistic calculator or the free BallisticARC app. So either way, 2500 NV with Shooter or 5700 Elite would be a substantial upgrade. The first thing I am going to do is finally get my chrono readings for my ammo and see how accurate my free solvers are.

Following that, I hope to test out some kestrels to see which method works best for me. Then, the budget comes in place. Unfortunately, I haven't seen many Kestrels wonder around the for sale section.

Keep in mind that chrono’s have a margin of error and you’ll need to true the velocity up as well.

 

[BigRed308]

Keep in mind that chrono’s have a margin of error and you’ll need to true the velocity up as well.

Could you send me a PM to explain, please.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Could you send me a PM to explain, please.

I’ll put it here in case it can help someone.

Also, check out the ballistic calculator forum.

Let’s say you have a chrono with 99.5% accuracy. It has a .5% margin of error. That .5% can be a +/- error.

You chrono at 3,000fps. .5% is 15fps.

So, could be 2985-3015 fps because of that .5% possible error.

You would then use your real world data out to 600 yds to then true your muzzle velocity. If calculator says you need 4.6 mils at 600 and your real world data is 4.5 mils, then your velocity was likely at the 3015 zone. If it was 4.7 mils, it was at the 2985 area.

Some calculators will do the calculation for true muzzle velocity for you and some won’t.


Point is, remember that chronograph are just like anything else man made.........not perfect.

 

[Boostinmarc4]

So does the weather flow weather meter provide just as accurate information as the kestrel and do that without an internet connection?

 

[Diver160651]

So does the weather flow weather meter provide just as accurate information as the kestrel and do that without an internet connection?

You do not need an internet connection, but it must be paired with your phone (the phone does NOT need internet either).

Answer to your question yes, both can be equally very inaccurate too.. depends on how you use them. Backing in the Sun is the most common, magnetic interference is another.

My 2 cents:

1. People put WAY to much emphasis on Baro changes in the same spot through out the day.. even throughout the year..​

2. Temp has a larger window than people want to believe inside 800​

3. Don't go head down in your device when you are actually shooting.​

​

You do not have to be at the range to learn wind. The very best value of the windmeter as others have suggested, is for you to learn what visual, sound and feel is with a true measured value. Use the windmeter at home, on top of a hill anywhere you can.. Guess the wind first then take a peak at what the wind meters is doing..​

​

You can take t a step further and use binos or spotter and pick a down range spot to estimate.. then walk or drive down and measure.​

 

[Boostinmarc4]

Okay, that all makes sense I was just wanting to confirm what I was reading. Where I live is 300ish ft above sea level but I hunt and shoot in places thousands of feet higher and would like a way to adjust the data without springing for a kestrel... thank you.

 

[Diver160651]

Okay, that all makes sense I was just wanting to confirm what I was reading. Where I live is 300ish ft above sea level but I hunt and shoot in places thousands of feet higher and would like a way to adjust the data without springing for a kestrel... thank you.

The weatherflow will work nicely, but so do preprinted cards. I am assuming you are not talking extremely long range shots on animals.. If you know the general temp windows and rough elevation you'll be more than fine 500yards and in with just the preprinted cards. But hell, in the scheme of things the Kestrel with A/B is cheap, especially for hunting

 

[BigRed308]

Will the Kestrel also determinein elevation? I began playing with the elevation in the Ballistic ARC app and saw how big of a difference elevation made on my dope

 

[scorpio 25]

cant go wrong with a kestrel

 

[Subwrx300]

Will the Kestrel also determinein elevation? I began playing with the elevation in the Ballistic ARC app and saw how big of a difference elevation made on my dope

Yes. You set a reference elevation using altitude and it will correct for pressure wherever you go.

To highlight the value of the Kestrel for wind and practicing with it, here is example from match on Sunday:

Targets at 630-750 yds, wind from 4 o'clock, (~2-5 mph). Kestrel solution said 1.0 to 1.7 MOA right hold/dial for average vs high wind respectively. At this range, though, the wind is not usually true value. My gut said it would be .75-1.25MOA hold.

I dialed 1.5MOA, held center for first shot and missed *just* off right edge. For the next 7 shots I held left third to left edge and hit next 7 using my "gut/experience" hold. Kestrel wasnt wrong per se, its just that the terrain slows down wind over the bullets path.

The next stage wind was slightly calmer at 1-4mph and at my position it was still at 3-4 o'clock but the wind flag was switching near the target. Show 3, 6 and 7 oclock over the course of 5 minutes. I shot with center hold hold and hit all 8 targets. Kestrel would have pushed me off target.

The lesson: just because a wind solution is given, doesn't mean it's perfect; it's only as good as the terrain allows. Wind holds and wind reading are a mix of art and science. You need to learn to use/practice both to get better 1st/2nd round hits at distance.

 

[BWB]

If you decide a Kestrel is in your future, find a used 4500NV with AB for around $300 or less (here in the classifieds). I have android phones, so I have no need to use the 5700 model and beside the ability to make half hour wind calls (1:30 - 2:30 etc.) it doesn't do anything the 4500 doesn't. If you have an Iphone that statement isn't true because you need LINK for multi-target dope. Nvisti Companion Pro does this for you in the Android world.

A kestrel with AB was the best money I've spent and increased my 1st round impacts for sure.

 

[BigRed308]

So since I have an iPhone, I am pretty much required to get the 5700 model with link to get AB?

EDIT: I am thinking about the 5700 Ballistic Weather with link for around 399. Would this bee a good choice? Or should I hold out until the new model releases later this year?

 

[abn31c]

I bought a weatherflow, its a piece of shit.
I used Hornady 4dof with excellent results. After flushing a lil coin on the WF, I bought a 5700 ab whatever link thingymajig and havnt looked back. If you cant do the good stuff dont waste duckets on the cheap shit, learn to reload and by powder in bulk.
Just sayin...

 

[BWB]

The only reason you would NEED LINK is if you wanted one screen that showed you shooting solutions for multiple targets at the same time. I honestly don't use this function a lot, but it is nice sometimes. The only downfall is that it requires the use of another device (phone) to display those results. It also links up to the new "electronic" data cards that display multiple targets also.

The 4500 with AB will NOT connect to the electronic data cards, to my knowledge.

 

[Crang]

I bought a used 4500 and happy I went that route. I find it useful for carrying around learning to estimate wind but not necessarily at the range. Its good for getting DA. It doesnt get used as much as I had thought during my actual range sessions. There is a lot of mirage most of the year where I shoot, so learning to read that is more useful although the Kestrel has been a great tool to work on that.

 

[seansmd]

Link will also connect with range finder and display the kestrel solution in the ranger.

 

[Holliday]

Link will allow you to use the wind vane kit and get real-time come-ups to your phone in changing winds. I used this a few times in hella crazy changing wind at 1160 yards and it was a dream......

 

[Hollywood 6mm]

The only reason you would NEED LINK is if you wanted one screen that showed you shooting solutions for multiple targets at the same time. I honestly don't use this function a lot, but it is nice sometimes. The only downfall is that it requires the use of another device (phone) to display those results. It also links up to the new "electronic" data cards that display multiple targets also.

The 4500 with AB will NOT connect to the electronic data cards, to my knowledge.

Link also allows you to build profiles with AB custom curves via your phone without the requirement for an optical cable and PC/MAC to do the setup. You can also back up and restore profiles in the field if needed.

 

[BWB]

I forgot about that part also! With the 4500 I have a program on my computer that allows me to build and manage profiles and then Bluetooth them to my kestrel or take them off my kestrel but I do NOT believe this to be available as a phone app. Pretty slick either way.

 

[lush_dawg]

I am a new shooter myself and haven’t spent a lot of time behind the rifle but have been able to shoot with and without a kestrel and it’s was a world of difference. If you’re shooting from UKD being able to dial up the current conditions was way more helpful and my shots were more accurate than going off my charted numbers.

 

[Matches Malone]

Here is a little background: Fairly new to long range shooting, more of a casual shooter-not a competitor. Been using the WAG method to make my wind calls and starting to learn what wind holds to make with certain winds. I have purchased a chronograph from a local shooter but not had the time to set it up. I am shooting factory ammo. With little/ sometimes if any wind, my last range trip I was able to work my way from 100 to 750.

Now, my question is: would I benefit from a kestrel purchase or more ammo and time behind the rifle?

Well you said you guess your wind calls. How do you dope your drops?

 

[Tchitcherine]

.... just because a wind solution is given, doesn't mean it's perfect; it's only as good as the terrain allows. Wind holds and wind reading are a mix of art and science.

I have found this to be absolutely the case. The Kestrel measures the local air, which may differ from some or even most the air you're shooting through. And terrain can be a big influence on the air downrange. You can try to "integrate" local measurements with other observations, and "true" your solution based on your assessment of conditions along the path of flight. And it's really easy to be wrong. I have to respect the folks who have any level of mastery calling wind.

 

[Dthomas3523]

When comparing the weatherflow to a kestrel, yea, it’s a pile of shit.

But generally speaking, it’s not awful considering it’s like $60.

The biggest difference you will see is the weatherflow will need a lot more time to stabilize once it’s been in your pocket.

The kestrel, just swing it around and it’s g2g. The weatherflow, not so much.

But we are talking top end tool vs low end tool. So it’s not a fair comparison.

 

[abn31c]

I couldnt keep the WF connected. Might be my ignorance and lack of tech savvy, it does have 1 button.

 

[Hollywood 6mm]

I forgot about that part also! With the 4500 I have a program on my computer that allows me to build and manage profiles and then Bluetooth them to my kestrel or take them off my kestrel but I do NOT believe this to be available as a phone app. Pretty slick either way.

The 5700s with Link can do this from a phone app, which is what I was discussing in my earlier comment. With or without Link, you can use the optical cable, but with Link you can use Bluetooth from a PC *OR* a phone to perform updates. Firmware updates suck over Bluetooth, but doing profile updates is a piece of cake. Link also gives the option to connect to compatible laser rangefinders and now scopes.

 

[BWB]

Definitely some good perks!

 

[Deleted member 113831]

Here is a little background: Fairly new to long range shooting, more of a casual shooter-not a competitor. Been using the WAG method to make my wind calls and starting to learn what wind holds to make with certain winds. I have purchased a chronograph from a local shooter but not had the time to set it up. I am shooting factory ammo. With little/ sometimes if any wind, my last range trip I was able to work my way from 100 to 750.

Now, my question is: would I benefit from a kestrel purchase or more ammo and time behind the rifle?

Here is the unsexy knuckle dragger answer:

Yes, you need a Kestrel, but not the ones with all the ballistic stuff in them. For any given day at a given altitude, your drops aren't going to change enough to matter, especially at the distances you are currently shooting. In fact, out to 500 to 600 yards you could have the equivalent of a 4,000 to 5,000 ft change in Density Altitude and it wouldn't affect your drops enough to dial for.

1) Get the cheapest Kestrel and live with it around your neck for a month or so outside. If you do this, you would learn to judge the wind at your location to within 1mph based on what you feel and see around you. This is the beginning.

2) Next... get a spotting scope and learn to use it. You get into open areas where the wind you feel is the wind you see. You correlate the wind you feel with what you see in the mirage and with the Kestrel.

3) Once you are good at that, then the final master level step is to start learning how wind moves and slows down and speeds up and changes direction depending on terrain.

This last step is never ending. You push your ranges out further and further. You will always be learning, but you will be better than 99.9% of all other shooters.

Seriously, if you did this for a year and progressed through the steps, you would be YEARS ahead of other shooters that go out and just put rounds down range. Learn from EVERY SINGLE ROUND. If you miss a target, figure out why. Don't leave until you figured out why. Don't keep putting rounds down range and missing. Figure out WHY you are missing.

My opinion, take it for what it's worth.

 

[spife7980]

I really like my weather flow, it does everything I could ever need it to. I will use it at the start of the day to get temps etc and then I will get it after lunch again when its 20 degrees warmer. I see no need to collect environmentals for hours on end live streaming them into my data.
I mean, if a cold front blows through then obviously youll need to update but how often is the weather appreciably different enough throughout the day to effect the data for what most of us are doing?


So to the OP, as a casual shooter get the weatherflow.

 

[IDbound]

I am wondering if the new Kestrel model priced at $179 coming out this summer with a non-AB ballistic calculator pre-loaded will be worth some consideration. You can pre-order but I would like to read some reviews first.