Range Report Berger Match Grade Ammunition 6.5 Creedmoor 140 Grain Hybrid Target

[southerngolfer]

Has anybody started shooting with these. I've been using only hornady eld-m ammo for 2 years and somebody talked me into trying these. Hornady eld-m BC G7 was showing 0.326 on their website , there BC I thought was little high. I found G7 0.305 a little more accurate BC. I don't know if somebody has any data if Berger's BC of 0.311 on this ammo is close or correct?

I did a 7 shot chrono, 26" bartlein, Magnetospeed V3
1. 2821 fps Cold bore
2. 2817 fps
3. 2827 fps
4. 2796 fps
5. 2802 fps
6. 2798 fps
7. 2805 fps

I deleted the high and low and got 2808 Fps average with a SD 9.8

 

[Racer88]

I shot some today for the first time. My RPR barrel has 2700 rounds through it, so I don't know how much that may be skewing my results.

I started out the morning with my RPR 6.5CM. I hadn't shot it since June!

I wanted to try some new ammo (as mentioned a few comments back). Last night I gave the barrel a good cleaning (long overdue). So, I started with some Hornady ELD-M 140-gr to foul the barrel and confirm zero. Check out Group 3 on the top right! Dayumm!! I've still got it, and apparently so does the barrel after 2700 rounds. All groups are 5-shot groups.

Then I switched to the new Berger Match Grade Hybrid 140-gr ammo. OK... pretty good! Some shots I knew I pulled. But, still pretty decent.

I adjusted the elevation up 1/2-MOA for the 2nd Berger target (Target #3 below). I fell apart on Group 3 at the bottom left. That was the last group. It was hot, and I was DONE.

But, is the Berger ammo BETTER? It's 16-cents a round more. Hornady is $1.18 / rd. Berger is $1.34 / rd.

But, the Berger also comes with Lapua brass.

OK... forgetting about the difference in cost, is the Berger a better performer?

Average group size (over four groups) for Hornady ELD-M was 0.783-MOA.

Average (over eight groups) for Berger was 0.744-MOA... if I include that last sucky group... I was hot and tired.

If I exclude that last sucky group (and use seven groups), the average group size for the Berger is 0.590-MOA 0.688-MOA. $hit... that's pretty damned good, I'd say. Plus I get the value of the Lapua brass, which I saved, of course.

I'll post up the chrono data momentarily. Still gotta download it.

OK, here we go.

First, the Hornady ELD-M 140-gr (20 shots):

Series	39​	Shots:	20​
Min	2545​	Max	2625​
Avg	2590​	S-D	22.9​
ES	80​

Berger Match Grade Hybrid 140-gr (40 shots):

Series	40​	Shots:	40​
Min	2676​	Max	2735​
Avg	2703​	S-D	15.6​
ES	59​

So, the SD and ES are better for the Berger. I suspect with a new custom barrel, those numbers would be better. My current barrel is now at almost 2800 rounds. But, what do you think about these numbers for factory ammo? Am I right that a new barrel will make a difference (even better numbers)?

 

[lte82]

I shot some today for the first time. My RPR barrel has 2700 rounds through it, so I don't know how much that may be skewing my results.

I started out the morning with my RPR 6.5CM. I hadn't shot it since June!

I wanted to try some new ammo (as mentioned a few comments back). Last night I gave the barrel a good cleaning (long overdue). So, I started with some Hornady ELD-M 140-gr to foul the barrel and confirm zero. Check out Group 3 on the top right! Dayumm!! I've still got it, and apparently so does the barrel after 2700 rounds. All groups are 5-shot groups.

View attachment 7143831

Then I switched to the new Berger Match Grade Hybrid 140-gr ammo. OK... pretty good! Some shots I knew I pulled. But, still pretty decent.

View attachment 7143832


I adjusted the elevation up 1/2-MOA for the 2nd Berger target (Target #3 below). I fell apart on Group 3 at the bottom left. That was the last group. It was hot, and I was DONE.

View attachment 7143834

But, is the Berger ammo BETTER? It's 16-cents a round more. Hornady is $1.18 / rd. Berger is $1.34 / rd.

But, the Berger also comes with Lapua brass.

OK... forgetting about the difference in cost, is the Berger a better performer?

Average group size (over four groups) for Hornady ELD-M was 0.783-MOA.

Average (over eight groups) for Berger was 0.744-MOA... if I include that last sucky group... I was hot and tired.

If I exclude that last sucky group (and use seven groups), the average group size for the Berger is 0.590-MOA. $hit... that's pretty damned good, I'd say. Plus I get the value of the Lapua brass, which I saved, of course.

View attachment 7143835

I'll post up the chrono data momentarily. Still gotta download it.

OK, here we go.

First, the Hornady ELD-M 140-gr (20 shots):

Series	39​	Shots:	20​
Min	2545​	Max	2625​
Avg	2590​	S-D	22.9​
ES	80​

Berger Match Grade Hybrid 140-gr (40 shots):

Series	40​	Shots:	40​
Min	2676​	Max	2735​
Avg	2703​	S-D	15.6​
ES	59​

So, the SD and ES are better for the Berger. I suspect with a new custom barrel, those numbers would be better. My current barrel is now at almost 2800 rounds. But, what do you think about these numbers for factory ammo? Am I right that a new barrel will make a difference (even better numbers)?

I got in 1000 of the 130s in and have 1200 of the 140s on order. Im done loading for every match. At these prices I might as well let Berger do it for me.

 

[Racer88]

I got in 1000 of the 130s in and have 1200 of the 140s on order. Im done loading for every match. At these prices I might as well let Berger do it for me.

How does the pricing compare between loading these bullets yourself vs the factory cartridge? (Realizing that we're discounting your labor as free. )

 

[lte82]

How does the pricing compare between loading these bullets yourself vs the factory cartridge? (Realizing that we're discounting your labor as free. )

Tons of ways to look at it cost wise, but for what you ca find this stuff for it’s not worth my time loading for all but the most important matches.

 

[Racer88]

So, given my chrono data for the Berger Match Hybrid cartridges, would you surmise that my barrel is done (2800 rounds)? Should I have gotten better SD and ES? Looking at the OP's numbers... He got an ES of 31 and SD of 9.8. I got ES of 59 and SD of 15.6. Could my worn barrel be making the numbers higher?

 

[lte82]

So, given my chrono data for the Berger Match Hybrid cartridges, would you surmise that my barrel is done (2800 rounds)? Should I have gotten better SD and ES? Looking at the OP's numbers... He got an ES of 31 and SD of 9.8. I got ES of 59 and SD of 15.6. Could my worn barrel be making the numbers higher?

Could be part of it for sure, though even shot out barrels I’ve seen can produce tight velocities. Either way 2800 is getting up there for a 6.5 barrel.

 

[seansmd]

Do you have any chrono data for your RPR with ELDM with the fresh barrel?

It seems slow and the SD/ES is wide as might be expected.

 

[Racer88]

Do you have any chrono data for your RPR with ELDM with the fresh barrel?

It seems slow and the SD/ES is wide as might be expected.

From a year ago (gun was 8 months old at that point, but I don't know how many rounds at that point in time). Much better numbers, though.

ES from 27 to 80. SD from 9.6 to 22.9. Granted, not the same lot of ammo. It's possible Hornady's QC went to shit. But, I'm betting it's the barrel, eh?

 

[TxWelder35]

How does the pricing compare between loading these bullets yourself vs the factory cartridge? (Realizing that we're discounting your labor as free. )

Bullet, powder, primer is around 56¢/round

 

[anotherwannabe]

Hate to be the bearer of bad news but you've got a slight math error above.
If you exclude the worst group on the bergers the average group size is .689 not .590. Still better than your ELD's however.

 

[lte82]

Factory 130s @ 2940 FPS. SD was around 10, average group size for 4 5 shot groups was .45 moa. These were less than ideal conditions too, I would expect these to group at least in the .3s without all the wind and afternoon mirage. My hand tuned ammo is a bit better velocity wise, but I don’t know that it groups significantly better.

 

[vh20]

So, given my chrono data for the Berger Match Hybrid cartridges, would you surmise that my barrel is done (2800 rounds)? Should I have gotten better SD and ES? Looking at the OP's numbers... He got an ES of 31 and SD of 9.8. I got ES of 59 and SD of 15.6. Could my worn barrel be making the numbers higher?

Try doing a 7-shot string, and throw out the high and low numbers (why??), and you can probably get numbers like that too. They won't really mean much, but you'll have them... Trying to base performance off of only 7 rounds, and ignoring the two of those you don't like is an exercise in futility. It will give you a rough idea of MV, but nothing else.. I do agree with the OP on the G7 for the 140 ELD-M. I shoot them out to the edge of transonic and the BC in my Kestrel is about the same as his (.305-.307, can't remember exactly but right around there).

Your test was an acid test, but by golly you KNOW what to expect out of those bullets! I have never chronoed a 40 round string, but 10-15 shots with the factory 140 ELDM load usually gives me ES of low 40s. I can guarantee that will open up if I did a 40-shot string like yours. Personally, I don't even pay attention to chrono numbers with less than 10 shots, or with deleted shots (excluding a false reading/chrono malfunction).

 

[Racer88]

Hate to be the bearer of bad news but you've got a slight math error above.
If you exclude the worst group on the bergers the average group size is .689 not .590. Still better than your ELD's however.

Oops! Yep. Don't know where I screwed that up. But, your number is correct!

So, it's a ~0.1-MOA improvement for 16 cents more per round. Though we get the Lapua brass with the Berger ammo.

 

[Glassaholic]

I cannot find these in stock anywhere? I bought 400 last year to try out and now nobody seems to have them in stock, has Berger discontinued or are they just that popular?

 

[Racer88]

I cannot find these in stock anywhere? I bought 400 last year to try out and now nobody seems to have them in stock, has Berger discontinued or are they just that popular?

I sent an email to Berger last week asking about it. No reply.

Literally, nobody has it in stock.

 

[Glassaholic]

I sent an email to Berger last week asking about it. No reply.

Literally, nobody has it in stock.

Almost makes me wonder if they stopped and are gearing up for the new 144 Hybrid instead.

There's got to be some out there somewhere

 

[Racer88]

There's got to be some out there somewhere

Even Ammoseek comes up with "no results."

 

[SD Carpenter]

I called Berger last week, they are waiting for brass from Lapua ( their sister company), and then they will start making it again.


And just to throw this out there since I picked up 5 cases last week.... Able's Ammo still has a bunch of the 140 Berger ammo, and I'm pretty sure they are the only one left with it in stock.

 

[Glassaholic]

I called Berger last week, they are waiting for brass from Lapua ( their sister company), and then they will start making it again.


And just to throw this out there since I picked up 5 cases last week.... Able's Ammo still has a bunch of the 140 Berger ammo, and I'm pretty sure they are the only one left with it in stock.

Good to know that they are just waiting for brass from Lapua - sounds like Berger Ammo has sold a lot more than anticipated, for match stuff I'm just shooting factory Berger and Hornady Match ammo and only reloading for special stuff (hunting loads). When you can shoot their ammo for $1.32 rd and then sell 1x Lapua brass for about .70 rd, to me it's a no brainer especially if it can shoot well.

PS - I checked out Able's and they appear sold out now, but they are pricey. Mile High has the best price I've seen so far.

 

[SD Carpenter]

Good to know that they are just waiting for brass from Lapua - sounds like Berger Ammo has sold a lot more than anticipated, for match stuff I'm just shooting factory Berger and Hornady Match ammo and only reloading for special stuff (hunting loads). When you can shoot their ammo for $1.32 rd and then sell 1x Lapua brass for about .70 rd, to me it's a no brainer especially if it can shoot well.

PS - I checked out Able's and they appear sold out now, but they are pricey. Mile High has the best price I've seen so far.

I got my 5 cases at 26.60 a box which is honestly pretty damn good lol

 

[Silvan]

I shot a local match recently, using this ammo. It’s too hot, a bolt got stiffly after 60 rounds approximately.
The next day it repeated after 8 rounds.
Accuracy isn’t better than factory 147 Hornady.

 

[SD Carpenter]

It's funny you mention that, because the first lot that I got last summer was excellent, but with this last batch I got last month some of my velocities are spiking quite a bit higher. Still no sticky bolt for me though yet on my factory remington

 

[dntworry]

Got a couple sticky bolt lifts on my t3x with a 28” Bartelin but it held around a 9SD and I shot multiple .3MOA 5 shot groups and this.