Advanced Marksmanship Berm for .50 BMG?

[Garvey]

Worse case scenario is armor piercing at 50 yards. It will also be used for various bullets from 600 yards.

Reading military specs, I am thinking 8' wide, 8' depth, and 5' tall enclosure of cross ties. Fill all that with dirt, and put a roof over it. Military specs show wet soil needs more depth than dry soil, so I'll roof it to keep the rain off.

Is this berm acceptable, or does it need more depth?

Price is not a factor, this will be built on mh range, but a second party footing the bill.

 

[Hairball]

You might want to consider filling the area with sand instead of dirt. Although, 8 feet of dirt should not be an issue but 50 BMG does not penetrate very well in sand. I posted a link on some 50 BMG info and if you go to the bottom under ammunition effects, you will see that about 14" of sand will stop AP and ball rounds from 200 meters so you should not have a problem with 84-96 inches of sand. You might even be able to recover many of the projectiles just by shoveling a bit of sand and then filling it back in again.

http://www.inetres.com/gp/military/infantry/mg/50_ammo.html

 

[Garvey]

I did read those specs. I am not against using sand. I will just have to have it delivered. The cost could end up even, as I was considering hiring, or renting a back hoe to dig out a feeder waterway to my pond, that will dry up by August. Basically, using that free soil, I'm getting a greater capacity in my body of water. But if sand is far superior, I am not against it.

 

[THEIS]

Hi,

Contrary to popular belief and movies..the BMG is not some super penetrating round.

Below are some penetration specs:

50 Cal armor piercing

Sand at 600 meters: 12"
Sand at 1500 meters: 6"
Clay at 600 meters: 27"
Clay at 1500 meters: 21"

50 AP at 100 yards:

Concrete 9"
Timber (logs) 96"
Dry Soil: 28"
Wet Soil: 42"
Dry Sand: 24"
Wet Sand: 36"
Dry Clay: 42"
Wet Clay: 64"

Sincerely,
Theis

 

[Garvey]

That's one of the reports I basing my plan from.

 

[mdmp5]

Up here in New England, 50 BMG penetrates 35 feet of soil according to the over zealous range officer

 

[Garvey]

Up here in New England, 50 BMG penetrates 35 feet of soil according to the over zealous range officer

Well, he's wrong.

 

[Fig]

Says you. I've seen a guy shoot over the berm with a 50BMG, and the near miss completely took out the berm.
Actual footage of near miss:

 

[mdmp5]

Says you. I've seen a guy shoot over the berm with a 50BMG, and the near miss completely took out the berm.
Actual footage of near miss:

Hahahaha that’s fucking great

 

[mdmp5]

Well, he's wrong.

I've met a few guys up here on the left side of the bell curve. At another range (at which I withdrew my membership because of the ridiculous rules), a guy tells me that at the 600 yd range, you can shoot 338 Lapua, but you cannot shoot 338 Lapua Magnum. Reason being is that the "magnum as opposed to the regular Lapua" will travel thru the 20 ft berm and kill the guys in the target pit. No joke, this guy actually said this to me

 

[Garvey]

I've met a few guys up here on the left side of the bell curve. At another range (at which I withdrew my membership because of the ridiculous rules), a guy tells me that at the 600 yd range, you can shoot 338 Lapua, but you cannot shoot 338 Lapua Magnum. Reason being is that the "magnum as opposed to the regular Lapua" will travel thru the 20 ft berm and kill the guys in the target pit. No joke, this guy actually said this to me

Damnit!!!

He deserved...

"We are all now dumber for having listened to that. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul".

 

[mdmp5]

I have this pre loaded on my phone

 

[Garvey]

I have this pre loaded on my phone

View attachment 6908773

^^Exactly

I should have that as well. It applies almost daily, to one dumbass or another.

 

[mdmp5]

^^Exactly

I should have that as well. It applies almost daily, to one dumbass or another.

This same physicist at the range then proceeds to tell me in a really informative manner that "it's not just the mass of the bullet that makes it dangerous, but also the speed, because of something called energy". I wanted to turn around and rip a fart on the guy

 

[Garvey]

This same physicist at the range then proceeds to tell me in a really informative manner that "it's not just the mass of the bullet that makes it dangerous, but also the speed, because of something called energy". I wanted to turn around and rip a fart on the guy

There is so much that needs to be said to these dumbasses, that I have figured out to just say "whatever" and try and get away from them.

Although, a friend of mine's dad was talking about a bullet rising once it leaves the muzzle. I chimed in "that is absolutely incorrect". Then my friend said, "dad, you might want to listen, he's hit targets at a mile, with a rifle bullet, he might know a thing or two, now days".

He never made statements like that around me again.

 

[mdmp5]

Although, a friend of mine's dad was talking about a bullet rising once it leaves the muzzle.

Say “yeah of course it rises because the muzzle is pointing up about 1 degree”

 

[surgeon260]

I will pile on. My range only allows 300 mags, 338 mags, and "Ultra mags" on a couple specific lanes that have reinforced berms and special ply wood baffles over the shooting benches that prevent you from shooting above the berms. Me and a buddy roll up with a 28 Nosler and a 7-300 Norma IMP, fully expecting to be relegated to the short bus shooting lanes. These guys clearly have never heard of either of these chamberings and usher us along to the normal lanes alongside the 223s and 308s. I am sure you could show up with a 7-50 BMG and they will sit you down next to the 223s, just as long as your 7-50 wildcat doesn't have the word "Ultra" in the name.

 

[mdmp5]

I will pile on. My range only allows 300 mags, 338 mags, and "Ultra mags" on a couple specific lanes that have reinforced berms and special ply wood baffles over the shooting benches that prevent you from shooting above the berms. Me and a buddy roll up with a 28 Nosler and a 7-300 Norma IMP, fully expecting to be relegated to the short bus shooting lanes. These guys clearly have never heard of either of these chamberings and usher us along to the normal lanes alongside the 223s and 308s. I am sure you could show up with a 7-50 BMG and they will sit you down next to the 223s, just as long as your 7-50 wildcat doesn't have the word "Ultra" in the name.

We are dealing with some very challenged individuals out there. The worst ones are the overzealous assholes who take "safety" to a level it doesn't need to be at. "Hey, you don't have a chamber flag in that gun!!", "Handling a gun if you're not on the firing line is a good way to get someone killed!!". Yeah, if I loaded the gun, pointed it at a guy and actually put my finger in the trigger guard, sure. But my bolt is either back or out of the receiver, and I am holstering my unloaded pistol, pointing at the ground, unloaded.

These morons put you in the short bus lanes because 28 is a smaller number than 223. They take pride in knowing their math

 

[Garvey]

Say “yeah of course it rises because the muzzle is pointing up about 1 degree”

I have gone into the bullet path versus sight picture discussion more than once. Even did it on my range last weekend, because I was asked to explain it. But fortunately, there I have a dry erase board where I can draw a 100 yard bullet path, and sight picture, versus a 200 yard bullet path and sight picture, for those that want to learn. But there are plenty of people that have their mind made up and "it's the way I've always done it attitude".

 

[Garvey]

We are dealing with some very challenged individuals out there. The worst ones are the overzealous assholes who take "safety" to a level it doesn't need to be at. "Hey, you don't have a chamber flag in that gun!!", "Handling a gun if you're not on the firing line is a good way to get someone killed!!". Yeah, if I loaded the gun, pointed it at a guy and actually put my finger in the trigger guard, sure. But my bolt is either back or out of the receiver, and I am holstering my unloaded pistol, pointing at the ground, unloaded.




These morons put you in the short bus lanes because 28 is a smaller number than 223. They take pride in knowing their math

Three things I'm strict on, at my place. Only an open bolt is a safe rifle, don't cover someone with your muzzle, no one touch a rifle if someone is going down range. But, I don't run a public range for damn good reason. I screen everyone, and anyone that steps out of bounds is told they will be leaving never to return. I have not had to do that yet.

I've got lots of barricades, rifles are going to be moving around. Gotta use common sense.

 

[mdmp5]

Three things I'm strict on, at my place. Only an open bolt is a safe rifle, don't cover someone with your muzzle, no one touch a rifle if someone is going down range. But, I don't run a public range for damn good reason. I screen everyone, and anyone that steps out of bounds is told they will be leaving never to return. I have not had to do that yet.

I've got lots of barricades, rifles are going to be moving around. Gotta use common sense.

Yeah I hear you. I wasn't referring to a cease fire, it was about literally not touching a gun if someone is in front of you. If you were with me when this poor excuse for an RO walked up with short shorts and fucking tevas, you would see what I was referring to. I had to bite my tongue trying to keep from unleashing on this asshole

 

[turboek]

Yeah I hear you. I wasn't referring to a cease fire, it was about literally not touching a gun if someone is in front of you. If you were with me when this poor excuse for an RO walked up with short shorts and fucking tevas, you would see what I was referring to. I had to bite my tongue trying to keep from unleashing on this asshole

mijp5, care to share what range this was at? Lol sounds like my current range in the NE.

 

[mdmp5]

This was actually in Ohio back in 2012. I think about this sometimes and wonder why I didn't leg kick this fucking weirdo. Short shorts and fucking tevas on a gun range...Seriously?

Ranges in NY are pretty bad too. One time at brookhaven, I showed up and asked to shoot on the 200 yd line. The range asshole asks me if my rifle was sighted in. I said yes, and he proceeds to scream at me, "it better be, or I am gonna come down on you!!!". I'm getting angry typing this right now, hahaha. Should have smacked that asshole in the face.

 

[Garvey]

This was actually in Ohio back in 2012. I think about this sometimes and wonder why I didn't leg kick this fucking weirdo. Short shorts and fucking tevas on a gun range...Seriously?

Ranges in NY are pretty bad too. One time at brookhaven, I showed up and asked to shoot on the 200 yd line. The range asshole asks me if my rifle was sighted in. I said yes, and he proceeds to scream at me, "it better be, or I am gonna come down on you!!!". I'm getting angry typing this right now, hahaha. Should have smacked that asshole in the face.

Mine is "only" 800, in Texas. I am ashamed it's not 1760.

If it ain't zeroed, we will get it that way.

 

[Garvey]

Yeah I hear you. I wasn't referring to a cease fire, it was about literally not touching a gun if someone is in front of you. If you were with me when this poor excuse for an RO walked up with short shorts and fucking tevas, you would see what I was referring to. I had to bite my tongue trying to keep from unleashing on this asshole

I completely understood what you were saying. And I'm sure I know the guy, he is in most of the counties in America.

 

[mdmp5]

Mine is "only" 800, in Texas. I am ashamed it's not 1760.

If it ain't zeroed, we will get it that way.

I have another one for you. The range I was talking about earlier, with the genius and the 338 comment is in NH. They have a 600 yard range, but it's gay because you're only allowed to shoot paper because steel ricochets bullets for miles into civilization and kills people. Anyway, this is the volley between me and one of the board members after orientation (everything here in New England is labeled "fish and game" and requires heavy vetting and shit to join):

Me: I'd like to shoot 600
Guy: Ok, but you have to qualify first
Me: How do I do that?
Guy: Once a month we hold a qualification, so you have to sign up and shoot 10 shots on target (or something like that)
Me: Ok, sign me up
Guy: Hold on, you can't qualify to shoot 600 until you have qualified to shoot 200. Are you qualified yet?
Me: No, but I am more than capable of shooting 200; I have shot to a mile
Guy: Well you have to qualify here
Me: Ok, how do I qualify?
Guy: Once a month, we hold a qualification, so you sign up and have to shoot 5 shots at a silhouette and land them all, standing offhand
Me: I don't shoot offhand, and I don't know if I have any rifles I can shoot offhand with
Guy: Well, those are the rules
Me: Ok, I guess I can try slinging one of my ARs. Can I sign up for that?
Guy: Hold on, are you sighted in for 200?
Me: I haven't shot since I've been here, so no. No biggie, I'll just sight it in on the 100 yd range.
Guy: Are you qualified to shoot 100 yards?
Me: I haven't shot here yet, but trust me, I can shoot 100 yards
Guy: Well, you have to qualify here to shoot 100 yards
Me: When is the qualification?
Guy: They are doing it today, so you will have to wait a month until the next one

So basically, it would take months to simply shoot at this fucking shit show. On top of this, they had a fucking rule book that was about 30 pages long, and trust me, most of these rules were convoluted, confusing, and followed no logic. It was as if democrats had taken over the range. I ended up asking for my money back and rescinded my membership.

 

[Garvey]

I have another one for you. The range I was talking about earlier, with the genius and the 338 comment is in NH. They have a 600 yard range, but it's gay because you're only allowed to shoot paper because steel ricochets bullets for miles into civilization and kills people. Anyway, this is the volley between me and one of the board members after orientation (everything here in New England is labeled "fish and game" and requires heavy vetting and shit to join):

Me: I'd like to shoot 600
Guy: Ok, but you have to qualify first
Me: How do I do that?
Guy: Once a month we hold a qualification, so you have to sign up and shoot 10 shots on target (or something like that)
Me: Ok, sign me up
Guy: Hold on, you can't qualify to shoot 600 until you have qualified to shoot 200. Are you qualified yet?
Me: No, but I am more than capable of shooting 200; I have shot to a mile
Guy: Well you have to qualify here
Me: Ok, how do I qualify?
Guy: Once a month, we hold a qualification, so you sign up and have to shoot 5 shots at a silhouette and land them all, standing offhand
Me: I don't shoot offhand, and I don't know if I have any rifles I can shoot offhand with
Guy: Well, those are the rules
Me: Ok, I guess I can try slinging one of my ARs. Can I sign up for that?
Guy: Hold on, are you sighted in for 200?
Me: I haven't shot since I've been here, so no. No biggie, I'll just sight it in on the 100 yd range.
Guy: Are you qualified to shoot 100 yards?
Me: I haven't shot here yet, but trust me, I can shoot 100 yards
Guy: Well, you have to qualify here to shoot 100 yards
Me: When is the qualification?
Guy: They are doing it today, so you will have to wait a month until the next one

So basically, it would take months to simply shoot at this fucking shit show. On top of this, they had a fucking rule book that was about 30 pages long, and trust me, most of these rules were convoluted, confusing, and followed no logic. It was as if democrats had taken over the range. I ended up asking for my money back and rescinded my membership.

Dead God!

The patients are running the Asylum!

If you ever come to north Texas, holler at me. You're welcome to come launch bullets, at steel targets, prone, barricades, off your pack, what ever you want to do.

 

[Sniperwannabee]

Dead God!

The patients are running the Asylum!

If you ever come to north Texas, holler at me. You're welcome to come launch bullets, at steel targets, prone, barricades, off your pack, what ever you want to do.

Wait a sec!! Can I get on this deal?

 

[mdmp5]

Dead God!

The patients are running the Asylum!

If you ever come to north Texas, holler at me. You're welcome to come launch bullets, at steel targets, prone, barricades, off your pack, what ever you want to do.

yes I will definitely take you up on that if I get there. Thanks

 

[SLG]

I'm sorry to hear all that stuff. I mostly shoot at home, or at a work range (I'm an FI, so I mostly get to do as I see fit), but I well remember some of that silliness from growing up back east. Sounds like the guys running things back then have been re-incarnated to continue doing it.

I mean, I understand that in crowded, non gun friendly areas, there will be some extra rules to try to prevent idiots from missing the berm completely. But overall, it really seems that the "gun culture" (I hate that term, maybe range culture is better) is its own worst enemy. We (they) don't encourage new shooters, we threaten them with being kicked off the range. We don't hold people to their word or a standard, we add ridiculous rules and hoops for them to jump through, so that we can then yell at them when they move their toe an inch out of line. Its like our public gun culture has become liberal - at least they act that way. Believing in conservative values, but not allowing people to be responsible for their own actions is not simpatico.

I guess you can blame liability and politics, but whatever happened to responsibility and freedom? We are not teaching and encouraging true weapons safety and use, we are instead attempting to neuter deadly weapons. I bet if the Japanese High Command were reconning us today, they would decide that the lawyers and liberals (and conservatives acting like liberals) hiding behind every blade of grass were no threat.

Rant off, sorry. It just annoys me to hear how some ranges are run, and how some members are treated. Those same guys typically work in gunshops, and I about hate going into gun shops anymore, not counting the ones owned by friends of mine.

 

[Andy T]

I have another one for you. The range I was talking about earlier, with the genius and the 338 comment is in NH. They have a 600 yard range, but it's gay because you're only allowed to shoot paper because steel ricochets bullets for miles into civilization and kills people. Anyway, this is the volley between me and one of the board members after orientation (everything here in New England is labeled "fish and game" and requires heavy vetting and shit to join):

Me: I'd like to shoot 600
Guy: Ok, but you have to qualify first
Me: How do I do that?
Guy: Once a month we hold a qualification, so you have to sign up and shoot 10 shots on target (or something like that)
Me: Ok, sign me up
Guy: Hold on, you can't qualify to shoot 600 until you have qualified to shoot 200. Are you qualified yet?
Me: No, but I am more than capable of shooting 200; I have shot to a mile
Guy: Well you have to qualify here
Me: Ok, how do I qualify?
Guy: Once a month, we hold a qualification, so you sign up and have to shoot 5 shots at a silhouette and land them all, standing offhand
Me: I don't shoot offhand, and I don't know if I have any rifles I can shoot offhand with
Guy: Well, those are the rules
Me: Ok, I guess I can try slinging one of my ARs. Can I sign up for that?
Guy: Hold on, are you sighted in for 200?
Me: I haven't shot since I've been here, so no. No biggie, I'll just sight it in on the 100 yd range.
Guy: Are you qualified to shoot 100 yards?
Me: I haven't shot here yet, but trust me, I can shoot 100 yards
Guy: Well, you have to qualify here to shoot 100 yards
Me: When is the qualification?
Guy: They are doing it today, so you will have to wait a month until the next one

So basically, it would take months to simply shoot at this fucking shit show. On top of this, they had a fucking rule book that was about 30 pages long, and trust me, most of these rules were convoluted, confusing, and followed no logic. It was as if democrats had taken over the range. I ended up asking for my money back and rescinded my membership.

Sounds familiar. Are you talking about Pelham?

 

[mdmp5]

Sounds familiar. Are you talking about Pelham?

Nashua. If there’s more than one of these ranges in existence, that’s an absolute travesty. Ranges run by democrats

 

[Strykervet]

My range has some stupid fucking rules, the dumbest being 8 round max in a magazine "because that's all Garands hold". Yeah? Who gives a fuck? Haven't seen a Garand in real life on a range since I was a kid. God help 'em if they ever have to make a decision on their own.

 

[mdmp5]

My range has some stupid fucking rules, the dumbest being 8 round max in a magazine "because that's all Garands hold". Yeah? Who gives a fuck? Haven't seen a Garand in real life on a range since I was a kid. God help 'em if they ever have to make a decision on their own.

Tell them, “hey fuckface, a garand doesn’t have a magazine so fuck you”

 

[SubOptimal]

Actually, it does have a magazine, just not a removable one.
My local favorite range does have some very tight rules regarding safety. When you are given a firing point, you get a chamber flag for each gun you bringing to the firing point. I rarely bring more than one but sometimes, I'll have another in a case with me.
During a cease fire, all guns are cleared and the chamber flag is inserted, no big deal.
There is a red line beyond which no one is supposed to venture once the cease fire is called. The range officer then walks the line from end to end verifying that all guns are clear and chamber flags inserted.. This takes a bit of time as there are 18 firing points for rifles and another 20 or so for pistols. Once done, the range is declared safe and shooters are free to go down range and mark targets, change targets or return target stands. Meanwhile, zero handling of guns is permitted and no one is allowed to venture beyond the red line. IMHO, it is a good safety rule. I want to know when I'm down at the 200 yard berm, there won't be some yahoo jacking rounds into his gun. They are actually pretty liberal and friendly there but you are only given one warning, a second violation will get you ejected from the range.
There is really none of that qualification BS there, if you want to avail yourself of long range shooting, there is a 500 yard range, soon to be extended to 1000. Nicely equipped with a couple of golf carts to run around on for setting your own targets or you can play on the ranges preset targets. That is also where 50 cal boomers get to go and the full auto guys.
New guys are usually paid a bit more attention by the RO till he is satisfied that things are safe and no hi-jinks are undertaken. The regulars also keep a weather eye out and will have a word with the RO if something funky is going on.

 

[Garvey]

Wait a sec!! Can I get on this deal?

Of course.

 

[bax]

Actually, it does have a magazine, just not a removable one.
My local favorite range does have some very tight rules regarding safety. When you are given a firing point, you get a chamber flag for each gun you bringing to the firing point. I rarely bring more than one but sometimes, I'll have another in a case with me.
During a cease fire, all guns are cleared and the chamber flag is inserted, no big deal.
There is a red line beyond which no one is supposed to venture once the cease fire is called. The range officer then walks the line from end to end verifying that all guns are clear and chamber flags inserted.. This takes a bit of time as there are 18 firing points for rifles and another 20 or so for pistols. Once done, the range is declared safe and shooters are free to go down range and mark targets, change targets or return target stands. Meanwhile, zero handling of guns is permitted and no one is allowed to venture beyond the red line. IMHO, it is a good safety rule. I want to know when I'm down at the 200 yard berm, there won't be some yahoo jacking rounds into his gun. They are actually pretty liberal and friendly there but you are only given one warning, a second violation will get you ejected from the range.
There is really none of that qualification BS there, if you want to avail yourself of long range shooting, there is a 500 yard range, soon to be extended to 1000. Nicely equipped with a couple of golf carts to run around on for setting your own targets or you can play on the ranges preset targets. That is also where 50 cal boomers get to go and the full auto guys.
New guys are usually paid a bit more attention by the RO till he is satisfied that things are safe and no hi-jinks are undertaken. The regulars also keep a weather eye out and will have a word with the RO if something funky is going on.

Some years back I became a "certified" range officer at a private-member-type range. The range has lots of rules, mostly good ones but I have one basic personal rule - don't scare me. As far as people downrange, I say do it like this. After clearing the line, the RO should stand 20 feet or so in front of the line looking back at the benches. You can talk to people and it is easier to see, you learn who you are dealing with and that identifies the yahoos and cuts down on the shenanigans.

I shoot at a 1k range that has a gator for target servicing. We shut down the range then four people jump in, run out to 1k and work their way back painting as they go. And they provide paint! In the winter you can shoot indoors! With heat! It's a good thing.

 

[M5NSX]

Some years back I became a "certified" range officer at a private-member-type range. The range has lots of rules, mostly good ones but I have one basic personal rule - don't scare me. As far as people downrange, I say do it like this. After clearing the line, the RO should stand 20 feet or so in front of the line looking back at the benches. You can talk to people and it is easier to see, you learn who you are dealing with and that identifies the yahoos and cuts down on the shenanigans.

I shoot at a 1k range that has a gator for target servicing. We shut down the range then four people jump in, run out to 1k and work their way back painting as they go. And they provide paint! In the winter you can shoot indoors! With heat! It's a good thing.

? Young’s

 

[deersniper]

Private land ranges FTW

Any more info on the .50 berm?

 

[Garvey]

Private land ranges FTW

Any more info on the .50 berm?

The ammo company that needed the .50 BMG berm for testing, have not contacted me. I do not need the berm, so there is still not one built. In the event they need it, it will be built on their dime.

 

[RickyRodney]

I shoot on a private 600 yard range, but the owner shoots up all the targets and I have to weld them back together.

 

[Garvey]

Improper construction, then. My range sees thousands of rounds per year, and rebuilding is rare.

1/2" Grade 8 bolt through armor steel to retired baler belt, or fire hose. Bolt fire hose to flat bar, flat bar welded to female pipe. Male pipe through female to your choice of target stand. Target is free to swing, on a real hinge. May go through some bolts, and an occasional hanger replacement, but new welding is rare.