Suppressors Best 3-Gun Shotgun

[OverWatch]

Re: Best 3-Gun Shotgun

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BOLTRIPPER</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i gotta chime in here......

1100's w/ extended tubes and speed loader is what i run with now...


the saiga would be something to really really consider,

the last guy at some of the matches in tiger valley ran one with his home made 19 round stick mag (he had two of them)....very impressive and with a bit of practice ....was not beatable! </div></div>

I would love to run my 1100, but ever since I had the barrel cut and choked up, it will not cycle properly with light loads and I can not bring myself to buy another with guns like the FN and M2 floating around. I have not been in area long so I may try to find a good smith that can get it up and running for me. Anyone know the standard load for a three gun match? Are you shooting slugs and 000 buck or smaller game shot?

Thanks,
OW

 

[OverWatch]

Re: Best 3-Gun Shotgun

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Oodin</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Personally, I'd play "run what you brung" with your 870 and then decide after a few matches and seeing/checking out what others (winning folks) are running.</div></div>This, unless you just want to get another gun, but then you should get what you want, not what we tell you to get

</div></div>

Bad thing is I ALWAYS want another gun!

 

[OverWatch]

Re: Best 3-Gun Shotgun

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The 870 comment was a little tongue in cheek.....

SuperNova or M1 would be my choice.

Personally, I'd play "run what you brung" with your 870 and then decide after a few matches and seeing/checking out what others (winning folks) are running.

No matter what you get, these come in damned handy:
http://www.dillonprecision.com/#/content...ctical_Stripper </div></div>

I picked up a few of the caddies awhile back to start practicing with. I went with the 4 rounds as my hands are to small to grab all 6 shells at once. I found a great video on fast shotgun reloading at the US Army AMU web site under "quick tips" Alot of you guys know Robbie and he is good with a shot gun. I wish I would have hit him up when I was at Benning.

 

[1911fan]

Re: Best 3-Gun Shotgun

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Russ257</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I run the FNH SLP. It is a great gun. Send it off to C-RUM and get your follower welded up so you don't get any stuck thumbs... </div></div>

I've got an SLP also. Can you post pics of the wwelding? I don't follow the idea. FWIW, a big +1 for the FN SLP.

1911fan

 

[viav13]

Re: Best 3-Gun Shotgun

If you got the cheddar, Drop it on a Benelli M4 or a custom shotty.

If not, get with the Mossberg 930spx. I have one and it is a beast. Only thing Ive noticed wrong with it is that you HAVE to have it in your shoulder when you fire. It will not fully cycle if you don't.

The only Siaga 12 you should consider is a Tromix custom. Fully improved and completely combat/ competition ready. Not so much a sporter at all.

 

[1911fan]

Re: Best 3-Gun Shotgun

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jlaw973</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Get the SLP, add a Nordic +1 tube ext. and Nordic bolt knob. You can get an aftermarket bolt release but not necessary, although does help. Have the carrier welded and lower receiver opened up. Buy a modified and light-full extended chokes and you'll be ready to go. You can do all of that and still have less than the M2 will cost. </div></div>

Same post as above- Can you post a pic of your SLP?


1911fan

 

[OverWatch]

Re: Best 3-Gun Shotgun

Crazy, I was checking out my 21" 1100 to check the seals and gas ports just get it ready to run some test loads this weekend. I was thinking to myself how happy I was that I got it cut back and how much better it handled. SO just for fun I pulled out the tape measure to see how far a 5 round extended mag tube would go out and come to find out I don't have a 21" 1100! I have a 19 3/4" 1100. That is not good, maybe that is why I have been having trouble with it.

OW

 

[dlc356]

Re: Best 3-Gun Shotgun

OW,

The 1100's can run after being cut down but the gas ports need to be opened up a little bit.

I've got a buddy that has an 11-87 that's been registered as a SBS. IIRC the factory ports size was around 0.125. The smith opened them to 0.128, and test fired. It'll run heavy dove loads (3.25 dram) or Federal's LE 00 Buck with no problems. The guy did tell him that some he's had to open up to 0.130. It just depends on the individual gun and what ammo the owner wanted to use.

 

[BOL556]

Re: Best 3-Gun Shotgun

I went with the Mossberg 930 SPX. After researching it up a bit I found out that it won 2006 best semi shotgun. Also, there are a lot of LEO's going to it as well. I had to wait a year and half before I was able to find one. The cool thing also its rated for slugs as well and there is a recoil reducer built into the stock. The only thing that I dont like about it is that I havent been able to find side saddles or pistol grip stock for it. A year after I bought mine they started coming with the pistol grip. Also, no need to change anything to feed it different loads unlike what they are saying about the Rem 1100.

 

[Hummerdawg]

Re: Best 3-Gun Shotgun

Check with Mark Otto via Triangle Shooting Sports for Mossberg side saddle

 

[dtask]

Re: Best 3-Gun Shotgun

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: OverWatch</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So I ran the hide search and came up empty on anything really "Shotgun". I am looking to start a little 3 gun action and have 3 models in mind. The FN SLP, Benelli M2, and the Saiga 12. Any suggestions? I am a bit concerned with the reliablity of the Saige. Are there any other shotgun post on the hide? I love my Rem 870 and 1100, gotta respect the scatter gun!

Price Points.
FN SLP: $900 Votes:6
Benelli M2: $1200 Votes:5.5
<span style="text-decoration: line-through">Saiga 12: $650 Votes:0 no longer considered</span>
Mossberg 930: $600 Votes: 2

Thanks,
OW </div></div>
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I went to a 3 gun match in Vegas, spoke with Craig (smokshwn here on the 'Hide and the gent shooting) and ended up recently going with a Saiga myself.

 

[Russ257]

Re: Best 3-Gun Shotgun

Some people asked for pictures of the lift gate mod from C-RUM

Here it is

This isn't my gun but the only picture i could find of a standard lifter. Note he has a nordic bolt handle an oversized bolt release and he has done some work to open up the loading area

 

[OverWatch]

Re: Best 3-Gun Shotgun

dtask,

I have heard alot of guys love the Saiga, but after reading up on the rules I want to stay in the tactical class and not go to the open class just yet. If I went open the optic option opens a new can of worms.

Thanks,
OW

 

[OverWatch]

Re: Best 3-Gun Shotgun

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dlc356</div><div class="ubbcode-body">OW,

The 1100's can run after being cut down but the gas ports need to be opened up a little bit.

I've got a buddy that has an 11-87 that's been registered as a SBS. IIRC the factory ports size was around 0.125. The smith opened them to 0.128, and test fired. It'll run heavy dove loads (3.25 dram) or Federal's LE 00 Buck with no problems. The guy did tell him that some he's had to open up to 0.130. It just depends on the individual gun and what ammo the owner wanted to use. </div></div>

I found some info on the JP rifle site about the 1100 which helped a bit. I am horrible with math who knows what is the closest drill bit size to match with .128 or .130, I am always ready to go mad scientist on a stick.

Thanks,
OW

 

[shoepop]

Re: Best 3-Gun Shotgun

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: OverWatch</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

I would love to run my 1100, but ever since I had the barrel cut and choked up, it will not cycle properly with light loads and I can not bring myself to buy another with guns like the FN and M2 floating around. I have not been in area long so I may try to find a good smith that can get it up and running for me. Anyone know the standard load for a three gun match? Are you shooting slugs and 000 buck or smaller game shot?

Thanks,
OW </div></div>

Per previous posts just drill out your gas ports it will run. Usual 3 gun my area 5% 00 buck, 5% slugs. 90% bird shot.

 

[OverWatch]

Re: Best 3-Gun Shotgun

Thanks for all of the input. After looking at each of the options I think a FHN is instore for the future. All of the run with what you have post did get me thinking and my current plan is to get my 1100 up and running. I am going to try to open up the gas ports a bit and buy a get out to the range with some test loads. Once I get it cycling properly I working on getting it comp. ready. I am going to work up some before and after picture to keep the post updated. I think after I get the 1100 ready I will pick up the SLP and the 1100 will make a good back up and I can loan it out to any buddies who want to shoot 3-gun with me.

Thanks for all the help,
OW

 

[OverWatch]

Re: Best 3-Gun Shotgun

A few other questions as I work on my 1100. My 1100 has a magnum recieiver and on the barrel it says for 3" shells. I have read on several sites that the 1100 is only intended to shoot either 2 3/4" or 3" shells not both. Does anyone have any experience with this. Also when I had my barrel cut back the smith did not install a rem choke, he install something different. I am not sure what type of choke it is, but it does have some morkings on it "5-88 and TTC MOD." the choke itself is just over 1 1/2" long. I am not sure if that helps. I am just learning about shotguns.

Thanks,
OW

 

[OverWatch]

Re: Best 3-Gun Shotgun

My 1100 barrel only has one gas port, it seems like most model have two. Does anyone have a diagram for the seal and ring alignment?

Thanks
OW

 

[Downzero]

Re: Best 3-Gun Shotgun

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: viav13</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you got the cheddar, Drop it on a Benelli M4 or a custom shotty. </div></div>

A Benelli M4 holds only 5 shells (4+1), it is illegal to install an extension on one (or, at the very least, the extensions have highly questionable legality and are no longer sold by Benelli in the US to civvies), and most of them are not offered with chokes.

In other words, despite what the HK fanboys told you, the Benelli M4 is not even remotely competitive, and never will be.

And that's not even making any consideration of the weight or expense of that POS, or the fact that (mine at least) would not run with any type of birdshot.

 

[nobearsyet]

Re: Best 3-Gun Shotgun

The 1100 with 1 gas port is a giveaway as to it being a 3" gun, most 1100s do in fact have 2 ports, but they're the ones like the Sporting Clays, Trap, etc. and the older models. They use 2 ports to move enough gas to cycle 2 3/4" birdshot, thew barrels are not interchangeable, btw, polish your recoil spring tube in the buttstiock before you drill out your ports, it does wonders.

 

[oakmax]

Re: Best 3-Gun Shotgun

good post I'm looking at getting one, m2, have an 870 now and boy am i slowwww

 

[OverWatch]

Re: Best 3-Gun Shotgun

Yeah the post has helped me alot, I am currently working on my 1100 and I think I am going to go with the SLP.

 

[SFC Carpentier jr]

Re: Best 3-Gun Shotgun

A lot of good post on what shotgun to use. Alot of the top shooters are using Benellis and of course the Saiga is GREAT if you need to do some fast reloading.

Of course these guys can load a shotgun pretty quick.

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I like the SX2.

 

[ToddM]

Re: Best 3-Gun Shotgun

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

A Benelli M4 holds only 5 shells (4+1), it is illegal to install an extension on one (or, at the very least, the extensions have highly questionable legality and are no longer sold by Benelli in the US to civvies), and most of them are not offered with chokes.

In other words, despite what the HK fanboys told you, the Benelli M4 is not even remotely competitive, and never will be.

And that's not even making any consideration of the weight or expense of that POS, or the fact that (mine at least) would not run with any type of birdshot. </div></div>

Actually I'm pretty sure most M4's have choke tubes, in fact every M4 I've seen/owned had tubes. Very few shipped with the true cylinder bore non-choke version barrel.

Also it's pretty clear what needs to be done to them to add a mag extension and keep them legal under 922r, and now there are more than enough US made parts to do so easily and even more coming down the road. No worse than the concerns of making an M1/M2 legal under 922r, or a Saiga etc. etc. if you want to add the goodies to them.

The M4 is really not much heavier than most other shotguns, it's just that people bolt so much crap to them they end up weighing a ton. Stock out of the box benelli lists the M4 at 7.8lbs, and the M2 tactical at 6.7 lbs and by the time you put a full extension and pistol grip (if you want to compare apples/apples) the M2 is nearly the same weight. FN SLP 7.7 lbs, Mossberg 930 SPX 7.75 lbs.

That said, the M4 is never going to be highly competitive in 3-gun, it was never designed for it, for many reasons, capacity, stock config, trigger mechanics, etc. It *IS* overpriced, that's for sure. It is however one of the most reliable defensive shotguns out there with REAL loads.

3 gun has morphed into a GAME these days and has mostly lost it's original focus of being training for defensive purposes under multiple weapons platforms etc. I don't know many people running low power birdshot loads in their defensive shotguns. None of the weapons that are highly competitive in most divisions (aside possibly the ARs) represent what is the norm or ideal for defensive use. I've got WAY more respect for someone shooting 3 gun with factory stock guns (no comps, no crazy mags, no reduced loads, no crazy holsters) no matter where they fall on the score sheet than someone spending thousands of dollars in tweaked out competition guns and special mags, loads etc. that take the realistic practice aspect out of the sport.

 

[Downzero]

Re: Best 3-Gun Shotgun

3 gun didn't morph into a game, it was a game from the outset.

I had an M4...and M1014 actually. It was a complete piece of shit. It was heavy, unreliable, and slow.

My 1100, besides its loading gate, is completely factory stock.

Practical shooting at all levels values speed, power, and accuracy. Calling any major PF gun a "reduced" load is ridiculous.

Equipment does not now, nor will it ever, make one a shooter. I have lost with $500 worth of equipment on my belt and lost with $3000 worth.....it makes very little difference other than having equipment that is competitive and reliable.

The Benelli M4 is not competitive, not reliable, and I have serious doubt about its legality with an extended mag tube. 922(r) has no case law of which I am aware so it's a statute with no life. If you want to become the test case, be my guest--it's your life and your butthole that will suffer.

I use the 1100 but I admit there are probably better guns out there. I don't shoot enough 3 gun/multigun to spend more. One day I will.

 

[ToddM]

Re: Best 3-Gun Shotgun

If you doubt the legality of any gun using 922r than you doubt every Saiga 12 running in 3 gun that's been converted, and they are dominating 3 gun right now in the open class. Along with soon to be most of the FN SLP's with the aftermarket parts coming down the line for them.

Any 12ga load gets you into the Major PF in most matches, that's what's ridiculous.

Sorry your M4 was unreliable, but it's a VERY rare complaint. I've seen more 1100's blow up in my shooting days and that would not run reliably than I care to count, yet your 1100 works fine, doesn't mean all 1100's are junk. Just because your M4 didn't work doesn't mean the rest of them don't.

 

[Downzero]

Re: Best 3-Gun Shotgun

Open is not a class, it's a division. Equipment puts you in a division; skills put you in a class.

I don't have to doubt Saiga conversions because they are based on the AK, which there is a long history of advisory materials from the BATFE on the legality of such conversions. The same materials don't exist on the M4. In fact, the opinions from the ATF's firearm's branch are uncharacteristically and atrociously inconsistent.

FN SLPs are sold with >5 round capacities from the factory. M4s are not, because they could not be imported in that configuration.

I've yet to see any shotgun that will reliably feed the lighter 12 gauge loads. I see no reason to institute a power factor, especially when most birdshot targets are steel. Want to reward power? Set your poppers heavier. Our game accounts for this.

 

[OverWatch]

Re: Best 3-Gun Shotgun

Is there any danger with having your magazine extension push out past the end of your barrel? With a Nordic 4 round I will be 1 1/2" past the end of my barrel when not using a ported choke. It is even with the choke installed but has a bit of overhang when I use a flush mount choke.

Thanks
OW

 

[Casey Simpson]

Re: Best 3-Gun Shotgun

Overwatch, of the 870 and 1100, that you have already, which one of those do you prefer?
Use that one. Mod it up. Trick it out. Wear it out. By then you'll be really, really good, know lots, lots more of what you want, and don't. And will not have wasted any jack, or at least not as much.

 

[ToddM]

Re: Best 3-Gun Shotgun

Depending on the choke you're using it should be fine, if you started to notice any lead/wad material on the extension I might consider going to a shorter extension or making sure you only use extended chokes.

No danger, but it could really mess with your patterning if the wad/shot column is hitting it.

 

[OverWatch]

Re: Best 3-Gun Shotgun

I think that is the plan for now. I am working to get the 1100 up and running. I have a side saddle and wilson 3 shot extension (which turned out to not be enough) for it now. I have the Nordic bolt handle and 4 shot tube on my short list. I plan to run some test loads through it this weekend and will post the range report.

Thanks,
OW

 

[OverWatch]

Re: Best 3-Gun Shotgun

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ToddM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Depending on the choke you're using it should be fine, if you started to notice any lead/wad material on the extension I might consider going to a shorter extension or making sure you only use extended chokes.

No danger, but it could really mess with your patterning if the wad/shot column is hitting it.</div></div>

Thanks for the info, last thing I want is to have shot hitting the end of my extension.

 

[OverWatch]

Re: Best 3-Gun Shotgun

Anybody use TruChoke chokes in their shotgun? This is what I have, are they compatabile with other choke tread patterns?

 

[Red_SC]

Re: Best 3-Gun Shotgun

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: OverWatch</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is there any danger with having your magazine extension push out past the end of your barrel?\ </div></div>

No problem at all, I've run one that stuck out much more than that with no trouble. It's fairly common.

 

[smokshwn]

Re: Best 3-Gun Shotgun

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Open is not a class, it's a division. Equipment puts you in a division; skills put you in a class. </div></div>
Once again in your attempt to show everyone that you sit in an ivory tower of knowledge, you only prove once again that you lick windows on the short bus. Outside of USPSA, many of the big 3 gun matches define your equipment by class. Once again you fail.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I have yet to see any shotgun that will reliably feed the lighter 12 gauge loads. </div></div>

If you haven't seen a shotgun that runs light loads, you should get out more. Plenty of Beretta's, SX2/3's, Browning Golds, etc running 7/8oz loads in five stand and sporting clays. And although most competitors shoot heavier loads for 3 gun that is still only 3dram or 3.25 dram 1 1/8oz loads....see lots of guns running them just fine.

 

[OverWatch]

Re: Best 3-Gun Shotgun

I was recently at Cabellas checking out their choke selection, anyone ever repace a truchoke with a Carlson brand choke? I did not have my choke with me but the tread patterns look like they may be the same on a few of the models.

Thanks,
OW

 

[smokshwn]

Re: Best 3-Gun Shotgun

OW,

Carlson's makes choke tubes for several different brands of shotguns and several different thread patterns, lengths etc.


GO HERE to check part #'s so that you know the choke on the rack will be compatible with your truchoke.

 

[OverWatch]

Re: Best 3-Gun Shotgun

Thanks for the posting the great video. Looks like I will be on youtube all day! What model shotgun is the semi, is it a Benneli M2? Looks like it is holding 8 shells in a Nordic tube.

Thanks,
OW

 

[OverWatch]

Re: Best 3-Gun Shotgun

Thanks,

I did not see the TruChoke models at Cabellas. Glad I did not pick up the wrong one.

 

[Norm]

Re: Best 3-Gun Shotgun

I've got 3 Benellis - an M1 Super 90, SBE II and an older (H&K) M3. All are totally reliable and have never suffered any jams with a multitude of loads.

My only complaint is that the M3 is a pain in the ass to disassemble and reassemble (takes up 30+ pages in the manual). The clearances are so tight so it usually requires a few taps of a rubber mallet to field strip and reassemble. The semi auto / pump option is more or less a useless novelty/gimmick for most people not firing grenades, tear gas, etc. The M1 is easy to field strip and just as reliable.

If the M2 is anything like the M1 it will be my next defensive shotgun.

 

[OverWatch]

Re: Best 3-Gun Shotgun

After some research and trying to get a good reliable load here is the pending parts list so far for the 1100.

1. Nordic +4 extension tube, will put me at 8 in the gun.
2. Nordic bolt handle
3. Nordic barrel clamp
4. Wilson oversized safety
5. Carlson extended (MOD) choke
6. Carlson Tactical choke (to see how the ports work with recoil)
7. Polymer stock and forearm (as I still have the wood furniture on)

That should get me on the right track.

OW

 

[Hoser]

Re: Best 3-Gun Shotgun

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: OverWatch</div><div class="ubbcode-body">6. Carlson Tactical choke (to see how the ports work with recoil) </div></div>

Those ports will bump you right into Open Division...

And they dont do squat other than make it noisy

 

[OverWatch]

Re: Best 3-Gun Shotgun

Thanks, you may have just saved me some wasted range time (not that I consider any time on the range really wasted but if I am not shooting something on my shotgun that works I could be working on something that does with my pistol or rifle)and not to mention the $54 not spent on a choke that is only "tacticool" and not practical. Anybody else have experience with the Carlson ported tactical choke?

OW

 

[smokshwn]

Re: Best 3-Gun Shotgun

OW,

Ported muzzle devices on shotguns are useless from a recoil/muzzle flip perspective. Due to the low pressure of shotgun loads, effective porting or compensators on a shotgun work best if there is 3-4 inches or more of barrel between the end of the ports and the muzzle.

If you watch the saiga video you can see how effective the comps are and they are 4 and 6" back from the muzzle.

 

[OverWatch]

Re: Best 3-Gun Shotgun

smokshwn,

Thanks for the post, I learn something new everyday.

OW

 

[Glock45]

Re: Best 3-Gun Shotgun

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: smokshwn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">OW,

Ported muzzle devices on shotguns are useless from a recoil/muzzle flip perspective. </div></div>


+1! I have my sporting shottys that have ported barrels. I didnt' want them, but that's the only way they came!

They do nothing, NOTHING other than as previously mentioned, make more noise, make pretty fire at dark/low-light and create another 15 or so minutes of cleaning headache when it comes cleaning time!!

I still say get a Benelli M2 though!

But the R 1100 will serve you very well!!

Have fun!!

-G45

 

[OverWatch]

Re: Best 3-Gun Shotgun

Thanks, G45 it is always nice to get product feed back from someone who has used the item.

OW

 

[OverWatch]

Re: Best 3-Gun Shotgun

Add a picture of my base 1100 to the OP. Had to hit the barrel with some Krylon to keep it from rusting out, the reciever it getting pretty bad also. Any ideas on rust prevention? All of my other guns in the safe are fine, not sure why the 1100 is acting up.

Thanks,
OW

 

[valmet76]

Re: Best 3-Gun Shotgun

Is there any downside to a 3.5" chamber in 3-gun?

I have a SX2 turkey gun with a 26" barrel. Yes, it's huge, but it's what I have for now.

 

[OverWatch]

Re: Best 3-Gun Shotgun

I am no expert but with 3.5" you would be hard pressed to get 9 rounds without a mag tube as long as your 26" barrel.

OW