Re: Best .308 Win Dies.
"Why are the Forster and Redding dies considered well above RCBS?"
Design.
I often chuckle when I read someone saying "X brand of dies (presses, etc.) are made to tighter tolerances." I have to wonder if they know what that really means in application. SAAMI tolerances are a <span style="text-decoration: underline">range</span>, NOT a specific point. Meaning, inside die dimensions start at a specific maximum diameter and length and are allowed to be smaller in both ways by a certain amount of change. Anything between the max and minumum dimension is fully "in tolerance". How well any die matches our camber is important but it's luck, not brand, if any specific set actually matches what we need.
So, I wonder - in which direction would a "tighter tolerance die" go? What would most folks want, more towards the maximum size or the minimum size? And which measurement do they think would be most critical, lengths or diameters? Or do they really have any idea at all?
Statisticaly, no one of anything means anything, we need a lot of samples to establish any legitimate base line. I've measured several dozen die sets from all makers (except Dillon, just don't have any, don't know anyone who does). Only ONE sizer die was "out of tolerance", for being too small, and that company didn't last long, it died some 35 or more years ago. All current die makers use chamber reamers from common makers and they all achieve SAAMI tolerances, no more and no less.
Paying more for shiny exteriors or purty knurling is fine if that turns someone on. It doesn't me, I only care, a lot, about the internal dimensions because that's where my ammo is made. For the insides, I simply cannot find any (average) superiority for any brand. Okay, EXCEPT for Forsters and Reddings and that's because of their excellant designs, not tolerances. All the rest work the same because the working parts are basically designed the same.
Individual die exceptions, good and bad, can happen but they ARE exceptions, not the average. A well matched rifle and conventional die set will work together as well aa the most costly die sets, and my concentricity gage proves it, but that's NOT the typical, average result.
Well, two nearly irrelivant design exceptions to sameness are the current seating dies with short sliding bullet sleeves, Hornady's ND and RCBS' "comp/gold metal" dies. But, that doesn't much matter because they load no better than conventonal dies, not on average. Few today know those short sleeve seater designs are NOT new. Both the Hornady short sleeve and the RCBS sleeve with a window are only copies of dies made in the 60s. Neat then, neat now, but they offered nothing useful to accuracy then and they still don't - the sleeves are too sloppy!
SO - if we don't buy Forster BR pr Redding Comp dies it really doesn't matter what we get. But that's not bad, all our makers produce quality dies(on average, of course).
And all any press does is push cases into and pull them out of a die; they ALL do that quite well. Some presses have more mechanical leverage, allow faster die changes, work faster(progressives & auto indexing turrets), have better lever ergonomics, handle spent primers better, etc. But the ammo that can be made on any of them depends on <span style="font-style: italic">the skill of the user</span>, the components chosen and the design of the dies.
No accuracy magic lies in the brand of any of our tools. IMHO.
