Best action to build from

tireys

tireys

StealthMode223
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Minuteman
Mar 4, 2009
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#1
I have a Browning A-Bolt Comp. Stalker chambered in .30-06. I see a lot of members here building LR setups off of the Rem. 700 action is this the only actions recommended for builds? Is there anyone out there who has or knows of anyone that has rebarreled an accurized a Browning?
 
#3
Re: Best action to build from

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: StealthMode223</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a Browning A-Bolt Comp. Stalker chambered in .30-06. I see a lot of members here building LR setups off of the Rem. 700 action is the only actions recommended for builds? Is there anyone out there who has or knows of anyone that has rebarreled an accurized a Browning? </div></div>

People on this site of barreled and accurized just about anything under the sun.

It's really just a matter of what you want to get out of the thing. The reason the 700 is so popular is it's so popular, so to speak.

There's a ton of aftermarket accessories, and just about any smith I've ever met is very comfortable with working on them.

I've seen people accurize Mosins.

smile.gif


To each his own.
 
#4
Re: Best action to build from

this is a great question, i have a ruger 7mm that nobody really wants to touch, i keep getting told that i will be happier if i just go get a rem 700 action. so that is what i have been looking for a good deal on. i am really looking forward to the coments on this topic.
 
#5
Re: Best action to build from

I would think a Browning action would be a great action to build from. Ive handled one before and the action seems smooth and the trigger was acceptable.

Rugers can be built to shoot as well. If I recall a arctile in Guns magazine where Robar build a Qr2 off a Ruger action and it shot very well. Now these choices would not be my first but if youve got them already then use them.
 
#6
Re: Best action to build from

<span style="font-size: 11pt">txfireman,

Remington 700 actions have many attractive features for someone looking to build up a custom rifle. The really big advantage of starting with a Remington 700 action is that the Remington 700 is a solid bolt gun design that has been around for 40 some odd years. This means Remington 700 actions are very well mechanically understood and their few weaknesses have well known fixes. <span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">Any</span></span> gunsmith can bolt one together using off the shelf parts with minimal or no machine work, minimal hand fitting using an upper-end synthetic stock and produce a sub 1/2 MOA weapon at very attractive prices. But the very best custom gunsmiths can easily best by half again the 1/2 MOA accuracy guarantee so commonly made by other gunsmiths.

Cheers!</span>
 
#8
Re: Best action to build from

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 500grains</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Resale value will be higher if a Rem 700 is used instead of an A-bolt. </div></div>

No offense, but I don't care about resale. I'm talking about building a rifle that repeats accuracy to a high degree. What I have is an A-bolt and my question is whether or not a smith or a rifle builder would entertain building an accurized rifle out of an A-bolt action.
 
#10
Re: Best action to build from

Winchester is nice, I always wondered why nobody ever built a Weatherby, they have a very robust action. But, having said that, all mine are Remington 700's, due to availability of aftermarket parts, and prices. Kinda like an old Chevy small block, other engines could be made stronger and faster, but the Chevy small block done it just as good or better for ALOT less money. Everybody likes something different like ice cream, to each his own. When you get ready to sell it, if you do, you will see a difference in resale, depending on which you use.

Mike
 
#11
Re: Best action to build from

My friend has just built a 6.5x47 on a rem 700 added up all the crap he had done and its around the the surgeon Short Action I bought with bottom metal and trigger (he even bought a new bolt for it pacific tool and die).....he'd deny it and has but thats the cold hard facts. He still has a nice gun and it shoots good however

I'd take a surgeon, templar or stiller over a rem 700 any day of the week. I think a Rem 700 is good if you dont over capitalise it as my friend has done. If you go the full monty on a rem 700 then you may as well buy a custom action at least thats my experience in this case.
 
#12
Re: Best action to build from

most good riflesmiths should be able to build on virtually any action you give them. I know my current smith at benchmark barrels in washington would definetly do it for you and you would be very happy with his price and quality. let me know if you want his contact info. you will probably only need to rebarrel because alot of the factory brownings come glass bedded with adjustable triggers. I think it is a great action and you should defintely go ahead with it.

Dare to be different i love it.
 
#13
Re: Best action to build from

since it is a long action you could turn it into a sweet 260ackley and seat the bullets out as far as you like or the same with the heavy 308. I love long action builds because it gives you great flexibilty with seating depth of bullets that will fit in the magazine.

just my .02cents
 
#14
Re: Best action to build from

The "Best" action will always be a custom. Bunch of guys making them, Badger, Surgeon, Stiller, etc. After a long wait and I finally choose to go with a custom, Peirce Tac repeater.

I believe I am getting the best.
 
#15
Re: Best action to build from

One of the primary reasons the Remington M700 has become the most popular is that all essential machine work and truing can be done on a lathe. No surface grinding, no milling.

Maybe not so important now, but 40 years ago, it was a godsend.
 
#19
Re: Best action to build from

Nothing wrong with accurizing a Browning, know a few folks that have and they shoot very well. The only drawback is the limited aftermarket for mounts, triggers, firing pins, etc.

That said if I were to build another it would likely be based on one of Stillers 700 clones since it wouldn't cost any more than buying a Remington and having it blueprinted in the first place.

Every time I think Remington has gotten it's act somewhat together I see another screwed up mess. For the last year or so they've been messing up drilling and tapping scope mount holes.
 
#20
Re: Best action to build from

pc3, hasgunwilltravel, rust,

Why do you think that? You still need to do the same truing and squaring operations on your custom action, bolt and barrel combination if you expect to see their true potential. Granted custom parts will likely need to lose minimal material compared to new unfitted factory parts but the operations still need to be performed if only to be certain of the current condition of true, parallelism, surface quality, concentricity and dimension.

To think otherwise you are just fooling yourself. Sure you can just slap custom parts all together and get lucky once in a while but accuracy and repeatability has little to do with luck and everything to do with precision. Luck is a very hit and miss proposition whereas precision is sort of like luck without the miss part.

 
#21
Re: Best action to build from


digger,

I agree with your for the most part but there are fewer and fewer good smiths out there and even fewer who are willing to work on "different" actions. I think are too worried about having stuff come back.

 
#22
Re: Best action to build from


stealthmode223,

If you are attached to this particular rifle and want to improve it go for it! But realize the return on investment may not meet your expectations as there are fewer upgraded parts available for this action. If you are willing to invest the money in having it rechambered or rebarreled and the whole action trued and aligned it will shoot pretty well depending on the level of skill and care put into your rifle by the gunsmith you choose. That said most any gunsmith can bolt together a Remington 700 and achive 1/2 MOA accuracy.

HTH!
 
#23
Re: Best action to build from

SM223:

I have a buddy that put a 3-12 S&B PMII on a stock browning A-Bolt in .300 WM. we worked up some loads with 210 gr VLDs. That rifle is now an absulute ass-kicker out to and beyond 1000 meters

The trigger is a little rough and it kicks like a mule (no brake)
but it really shoots well.

Buy the best scope you can afford put it on and see how it works for you. theres nothing wrong with a 30/06.

good luck!
 
#24
Re: Best action to build from

My next questions are... Where do I find such a gunsmith? I only know of one here in my local area (F&D Gunsmith)and I am not sure if this is his cup of tea so to speak? I guess I could ask him and maybe he knows of someone besides him that me be interested in tackling such a job.
Would any of yuns know what ballpark I'd be in price wise?
 
#25
Re: Best action to build from

Give George Gardner a call over at GA Precision... one of the best in the business. 816-221-1530. Kansas City, Mo.

Ask anyone on this site they will all say the same "Top notch"
 
#26
Re: Best action to build from

I believe a Browning A bolt action would work for a great custom build. Have a buddy with the A bolt Eclipse 300 Win Mag with the boss system and fancy thumbhole stock. He can put 6 shots in a dime at a hundred and he can't shoot that good. Definitely would think a Browning would make a good custom. His has the pop out clips on bottom metal which is pretty cool. Did the trigger for him. Had to do some spring modification but could get it down to 2 lbs. with no problem. If you can't find a factory stock that you like, I'm sure Boyds could build you a beautiful laminate for it. JMO.
 
#27
Re: Best action to build from

Why do you think that? You still need to do the same truing and squaring operations on your custom action, bolt and barrel combination if you expect to see their true potential. Granted custom parts will likely need to lose minimal material compared to new unfitted factory parts but the operations still need to be performed if only to be certain of the current condition of true, parallelism, surface quality, concentricity and dimension.

Not so true. Sometimes a wacked out custom action needs truing but if you buy a quality product like Lawton, Neiska, Surgeon, or Bat, 99.999% of the time all you will have to do is lapp the lugs. All the other surfaces are very true.
 
#29
Re: Best action to build from

I built a 300 Dakota on a Browning Abolt action, was one of the worst mistakes rifle wise that I have made. A very reputable smith built the rifle and it was a complete piece of shit. If the rifle shoots leave it as is, if it don't shoot sell it to somebody you don't like and use those funds to purchase a Rem 700 or one of its clones......Blake
 
#30
Re: Best action to build from

What went so wrong? My rifle shoots very well out to 200 yrds with factory loads. I would like to reach out there a little more not so much for hunting purposes but as a former Marine I want it to be better out even further. I don't want it to impress anyone else, I want to impress myself. Precision shooting is a passion of mine just like many of you. My only limitation is Money and my thought was if I could take a Browning action that I already own and tweak it a little I could save some money.
 
#32
Re: Best action to build from

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: StealthMode223</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What went so wrong? My rifle shoots very well out to 200 yrds with factory loads. I would like to reach out there a little more not so much for hunting purposes but as a former Marine I want it to be better out even further. I don't want it to impress anyone else, I want to impress myself. Precision shooting is a passion of mine just like many of you. My only limitation is Money and my thought was if I could take a Browning action that I already own and tweak it a little I could save some money. </div></div>

I recently had the same dilemma and decided to sell my A-bolt and go with a Remington clone. The reason is not that the A-bolt is bad, its just that there aren't near as many options for customization: trigger, stock, bottom metal, picatinny rail, gunsmiths who know the action inside and out. The whole world is your oyster if you stick with a Remington 700 or clone. Take what you can get if you stick with the A-bolt. Now if you simply want to put a match barrel on your A-bolt, then stick with it. But, it you want a wide selection of options, then "stay within the box" and get a Remington or clone.
smile.gif
 
#33
Re: Best action to build from

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: YAOG</div><div class="ubbcode-body">pc3, hasgunwilltravel, rust,

Why do you think that? You still need to do the same truing and squaring operations on your custom action, bolt and barrel combination if you expect to see their true potential. Granted custom parts will likely need to lose minimal material compared to new unfitted factory parts but the operations still need to be performed if only to be certain of the current condition of true, parallelism, surface quality, concentricity and dimension.

To think otherwise you are just fooling yourself. Sure you can just slap custom parts all together and get lucky once in a while but accuracy and repeatability has little to do with luck and everything to do with precision. Luck is a very hit and miss proposition whereas precision is sort of like luck without the miss part.

</div></div>

Better put that crack pipe down. If your buying a custom action, and then having to get it accurized, you just pissed away a shit ton of money.

My Pierce Engineering action is held to tolerances of .0002. Since he started making his own bolt bodies, I doubt the lugs will have to be lapped. There is a differance between a custom and a work of mechanical, milling, and dimensional art. I am getting the later.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: YAOG</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> You still need to do the same truing and squaring operations on your custom action, bolt and barrel combination if you expect to see their true potential.</div></div>

thats the dumbest thing I ever heard, aside from threading the barrel blank. If your having to re-cut threads and square a receiver face on a custom action, you have a piece of shit my friend.
 
#35
Re: Best action to build from

GA Precision's website lists a price of $350 to chamber, true the action and the bolt and crown the muzzle of a rifle. They list a cost of $200 to chamber a barrel and install to an action that has been previously trued. Thats a one time cost of $150 for the truing operations. If youre building a custom rifle thats a drop in the hat compared to all the other costs and componenets the way I look at it. If you can find a cheap enough donor gun I'd still say youre money ahead.

Bought a Remington XR-100 Rangemaster single shot target rifle last year for the sole purpose of building it up, just got to make a decision on barrel contour and length and quit hemming and hawing with the details so Im not bothering George and the crew and get it on GA Precision's books so it gets done in 6 months!
 
#37
Re: Best action to build from

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: StealthMode223</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What's GA turnaround time?
Do they want you to begin with good faith monies and pay as you go? </div></div>

I put half down.

-dan
 
#38
Re: Best action to build from

Sir
for what it is worth - my dad and I built a long range rifle out of a 30-06 Rem 700 donor action and it shoots freat with very little additional smitihing required.
You might consider starting simple and then accurizing as your skills improve - that way you done have to spend a ton (only 1/2 ton) right off the bat.
 
#39
Re: Best action to build from

YAOG - No, I don't think I'm fooling myself. Non of the custom actions I've ever purchased needed anything. Not that they were not very carefully checked by a very capable smith first, but then I always check everything, like running the borescope down every new barrel before I spend any money chambering and mounting it, I slug them too.

And yes I fully realize that the rifle is a system and not a hodge podge of slapped together parts.

But starting with an out of the box Remington when there are so many high quality 700 clones out there? Please.

Over the last 40 years or so I've owned a bunch of 700s. The best were typically mid 60s production. But every one (well, a very good 40X excepted) had problems including: scope mount holes drilled and tapped off line, drilled but not tapped, or damaged threading; firing pin hole(s) not centered in the bolt; seriously oversized firing pin hole; bent firing pin(s); damaged/dinged bolt(s); receiver face not squared to the centerline of the receiver; receiver not broached to the centerline or skewed from the centerline; warped recoil lug(s); under diameter bolt bodies; and lots more.

Given what it cost to clean up some of these problems, had todays high quality clones been available years back I'd certainly have started out with one.
 
#40
Re: Best action to build from

Well after hearing what you all have to say I am considering a Rem 700 action. While it would be pretty cool to buy a bunch of really expensive aftermarket parts and watch as a rifle is born. I think for my money I can get a pretty good Long range rifle for pokin holes in targets and also a good huntin cartridge if I just go with this rifle out of the BOX and mount my Burris Fullfield II 4.5-14x42mm w/ tac 2 knobs on top. It seems to me that it would be as pretty close to a custom job as I can afford.

http://www.remington.com/products/firear...ct_tactical.asp
 
#42
Re: Best action to build from

Both the A-Bolt and Rem700 have round bottom receivers and separate recoil lugs.

That lowers the salvage value for either action for me.

The A-Bolt has a three lug bolt that is shorter throw.
The Rem700 is easier to find stocks for.
 
#43
Re: Best action to build from

Stealth - I don't want to give the impression that starting out with a factory 700 is a bad thing. Especially with budget restrictions. I don't believe it is the hightest quality out of the box rifle. But it is the most versatile starting point of all factory rifles for a build later on when you run into some spare money.

What I was pointing out to a few folks is that the 700 is certainly not the end and and be all to start a "from scratch" project from. There is a reason most top smiths don't start with factory actions for their best customs, they don't want to spend a lot of time cleaning receivers up.
 
#44
Re: Best action to build from

Just throwing this in there. But what about a HOWA action? I know not as near common as a Rem. But seems to be better from the factory. Sako extractor, lugs similar to Rem, larger recoil lug, triggers readily available, and not hard to find a smith to work on it. Just my 2cents
 
#45
Re: Best action to build from

I still think a standard remington varmint/sendero/PSS/5R will do about 90% of the task that most people ask them to do. By going custom your dragging the last few percentage of performance and getting something to brag about. I have about 12,000 rounds through a pair of Remington 700s that are original other than stock changes and I finally feel my ability is getting close to the point a custom rig "might" matter. Im going with a Surgeon round in .243....
 
#46
Re: Best action to build from

I stopped by the shop of the only smith I know of in my area just to inquire. I told him about some of the points that had been made by some of you all here and agreed that the 700 is the most obvious choice when considering a custom build of an accurized/precision rifle. He basically crushed my hopes and dreams of doing anything with my Browning saying he doesn't mess with them and didn't know of anyone else who does either. He did suggest a Weatherby in the MOA line they have and I checked the website and they are nice and even cheaper than the REM. 700 XCR Compact Tactical that I am considering. I believe I am confident enough with my A-bolt that the Weatherby would not make much of a difference for me.
 
#47
Re: Best action to build from

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: StealthMode223</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I stopped by the shop of the only smith I know of in my area just to inquire. I told him about some of the points that had been made by some of you all here and agreed that the 700 is the most obvious choice when considering a custom build of an accurized/precision rifle. He basically crushed my hopes and dreams of doing anything with my Browning saying he doesn't mess with them and didn't know of anyone else who does either. He did suggest a Weatherby in the MOA line they have and I checked the website and they are nice and even cheaper than the REM. 700 XCR Compact Tactical that I am considering. I believe I am confident enough with my A-bolt that the Weatherby would not make much of a difference for me. </div></div>

Just sell the A-bolt and be done with it. As you have observed, you can get a great out-of-the box remington 700 and won't have to do anything to it....until you are ready and decide to...if ever. I was relieved selling my A-bolt, because then all my options were open.

regarding a custom action: its nice to have, not need to have. the most important things for accuracy are the barrel, the bolt and how precisely the bolt locks up to the barrel. Everything else is pretty minor and can be improved at your convenience.
 
#48
Re: Best action to build from


Marku, Hasgun, Rust,

It does not matter what you think you bought and paid for so much as what you end up with. Every manufacturer makes mistakes and has an odd part get out of their shop and many of the best gunsmiths know this and check and correct every action they receiver be it custom or factory new.

The fact that you start with an expensive custom receiver should mean nothing to a high-end gunsmith who cares about what is leaving his shop. They will still need to confirm the action is dimensionally good enough to meet their general requirements to meet their standards. If your custom gunsmiths are willing to take parts out of a box and screw them together just because they are custom made by a big name actipon maker and expensive please post their names so I can avoid them.

If you seriously think that just because the action parts you bought are custom that they are good enough to use right out of the box you are fooling yourself and should stop with the crack you're smoking already.

Ask one or two of the best high-end gunsmiths here if they are willing to stake their reputation on somebody else's work. Ask George G. or Mike R. and I'm pretty sure neither you nor they will be saving any of your money or their time in the steps taken to build up your custom based action over a new factory action. They may or may not find the parts you sent them are good enough but it is clearly unlikely that you are capable of determining this. Go ahead and ask them for a discount on the time they have to put into building on your custom action. I doubt you will get one.

If the gunsmith has done his job there will be no difference in the accuracy and consistency of weapons based on a custom action when compared to a factory based action. Go ahead and ask them.



 
#49
Re: Best action to build from

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: YAOG</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
If the gunsmith has done his job there will be no difference in the accuracy and consistency of weapons based on a custom action when compared to a factory based action. Go ahead and ask them.
</div></div>

That may be true, but you might find it cheaper to buy a precision custom action in the end. Tolerances matter and a manufacturer that holds to extremely tight tolerances(and constantly measures those) simply won't have many actions that need any adjustment. I did ask my world-record-holding gunsmith about the difference between custom and truing. He said just go with a custom: he won't have to do much or anything to it.

IF you have the funds, the decision to use a custom action seems pretty simple these days. Surgeon for example, now sells a Remington clone for $700. You'll spend more money than that getting a gunsmith to true-up a Remington and the Surgeon will hold its value much better.
 
#50
Re: Best action to build from

I was going to say that once you true up a stock Remy you can buy a new clone already done. Stiller and Lawton make one for under $800. Seems like some people prefer one over the other for reasons I forget. Surgeon's are nice to as said above but they are more expensive, like 1,200 to 1,300. If you already have a 700 to donate then it should be cheaper to have it done up.
 
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