Re: Best action to build from
go with the 700, proven design and there are plenty of gunsmiths to work it over for you.
go with the 700, proven design and there are plenty of gunsmiths to work it over for you.
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Re: Best action to build from
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shepheard</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I was going to say that once you true up a stock Remy you can buy a new clone already done. Stiller and Lawton make one for under $800. Seems like some people prefer one over the other for reasons I forget. Surgeon's are nice to as said above but they are more expensive, like 1,200 to 1,300... </div></div>
Surgeon now makes a "hunter" action that is only $700. It's basically a remington action with the same bolt as their more expensive action and made to their tolerances. If you don't already have a donor action, this would seem like a great way to go. I paid $760 including shipping and a 1/4" recoil lug.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shepheard</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I was going to say that once you true up a stock Remy you can buy a new clone already done. Stiller and Lawton make one for under $800. Seems like some people prefer one over the other for reasons I forget. Surgeon's are nice to as said above but they are more expensive, like 1,200 to 1,300... </div></div>
Surgeon now makes a "hunter" action that is only $700. It's basically a remington action with the same bolt as their more expensive action and made to their tolerances. If you don't already have a donor action, this would seem like a great way to go. I paid $760 including shipping and a 1/4" recoil lug.
Re: Best action to build from
Could a Rem 700 Youth model .243 be used for a donor? I may have found one and even if it can't I have a step son that will need a deer rifle in a few years. Guy is only asking $250.
Could a Rem 700 Youth model .243 be used for a donor? I may have found one and even if it can't I have a step son that will need a deer rifle in a few years. Guy is only asking $250.
Re: Best action to build from
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: YAOG</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Marku, Hasgun, Rust,
It does not matter what you think you bought and paid for so much as what you end up with. Every manufacturer makes mistakes and has an odd part get out of their shop and many of the best gunsmiths know this and check and correct every action they receiver be it custom or factory new.
The fact that you start with an expensive custom receiver should mean nothing to a high-end gunsmith who cares about what is leaving his shop. They will still need to confirm the action is dimensionally good enough to meet their general requirements to meet their standards. If your custom gunsmiths are willing to take parts out of a box and screw them together just because they are custom made by a big name actipon maker and expensive please post their names so I can avoid them.
If you seriously think that just because the action parts you bought are custom that they are good enough to use right out of the box you are fooling yourself and should stop with the crack you're smoking already.
Ask one or two of the best high-end gunsmiths here if they are willing to stake their reputation on somebody else's work. Ask George G. or Mike R. and I'm pretty sure neither you nor they will be saving any of your money or their time in the steps taken to build up your custom based action over a new factory action. They may or may not find the parts you sent them are good enough but it is clearly unlikely that you are capable of determining this. Go ahead and ask them for a discount on the time they have to put into building on your custom action. I doubt you will get one.
If the gunsmith has done his job there will be no difference in the accuracy and consistency of weapons based on a custom action when compared to a factory based action. Go ahead and ask them.
</div></div>
lol.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: YAOG</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Marku, Hasgun, Rust,
It does not matter what you think you bought and paid for so much as what you end up with. Every manufacturer makes mistakes and has an odd part get out of their shop and many of the best gunsmiths know this and check and correct every action they receiver be it custom or factory new.
The fact that you start with an expensive custom receiver should mean nothing to a high-end gunsmith who cares about what is leaving his shop. They will still need to confirm the action is dimensionally good enough to meet their general requirements to meet their standards. If your custom gunsmiths are willing to take parts out of a box and screw them together just because they are custom made by a big name actipon maker and expensive please post their names so I can avoid them.
If you seriously think that just because the action parts you bought are custom that they are good enough to use right out of the box you are fooling yourself and should stop with the crack you're smoking already.
Ask one or two of the best high-end gunsmiths here if they are willing to stake their reputation on somebody else's work. Ask George G. or Mike R. and I'm pretty sure neither you nor they will be saving any of your money or their time in the steps taken to build up your custom based action over a new factory action. They may or may not find the parts you sent them are good enough but it is clearly unlikely that you are capable of determining this. Go ahead and ask them for a discount on the time they have to put into building on your custom action. I doubt you will get one.
If the gunsmith has done his job there will be no difference in the accuracy and consistency of weapons based on a custom action when compared to a factory based action. Go ahead and ask them.
</div></div>
lol.
Re: Best action to build from
Hasgun-
Some custom actions are expensive JUNK & not worth trueing.
If your smith doesn't check concentricity osf any custom action-find a 'smith & not a plumber as you'll be money ahead.
Hasgun-
Some custom actions are expensive JUNK & not worth trueing.
If your smith doesn't check concentricity osf any custom action-find a 'smith & not a plumber as you'll be money ahead.
Re: Best action to build from
At the end of the day, take any bolt action from one of the leading manufactures and a competent gunsmith can turn it into a very accurate, reliable and repeatable weapon. A lot of them will shoot just as well (sometimes better) as some of the best custom actions. Some actions such as a Rem 700 offer more after market accessories, such as stocks, triggers and mounts.
At the end of the day, take any bolt action from one of the leading manufactures and a competent gunsmith can turn it into a very accurate, reliable and repeatable weapon. A lot of them will shoot just as well (sometimes better) as some of the best custom actions. Some actions such as a Rem 700 offer more after market accessories, such as stocks, triggers and mounts.
Re: Best action to build from
If your custom gunsmiths are willing to take parts out of a box and screw them together just because they are custom made by a big name actipon maker and expensive please post their names so I can avoid them.
Look in my sig im sure you can figure out who my smith is! LOL
Ask one or two of the best high-end gunsmiths here if they are willing to stake their reputation on somebody else's work. Ask George G. or Mike R.
George has used both Lawton and im not 100% sure but I think the Templar action is from Pacific Tool and Gauge.
If the gunsmith has done his job there will be no difference in the accuracy and consistency of weapons based on a custom action when compared to a factory based action. Go ahead and ask them.
Staring with a donar gun @500.00 with a fluted bolt, Bager bolt knob, and truing process your looking at almost $935.00. A lawton action that comes with a recoil lug and fluted bolt are $920.00.
I should know my 6.5-284 is based off a Remington action! Do the math custom Lawton action is cheeper than a fulley custom Remington aciton.
Of course custom smiths check actions they all should and most probley do. I personally asked Dave at PAI and he said everything looked good and checked out fine on it. Your kidding yourself if you think custom actions need trued. If you buy from a reputable company they wont need it! Theres a reason why these companies are still in business and its because they hold very strict tolerances thru-out the action. Point blank if you have to get a custom action blueprinted you might as well start off with a Remington 700 and save alot of money. My suggestion to you YAOG is do some research on custom actions.
If your custom gunsmiths are willing to take parts out of a box and screw them together just because they are custom made by a big name actipon maker and expensive please post their names so I can avoid them.
Look in my sig im sure you can figure out who my smith is! LOL
Ask one or two of the best high-end gunsmiths here if they are willing to stake their reputation on somebody else's work. Ask George G. or Mike R.
George has used both Lawton and im not 100% sure but I think the Templar action is from Pacific Tool and Gauge.
If the gunsmith has done his job there will be no difference in the accuracy and consistency of weapons based on a custom action when compared to a factory based action. Go ahead and ask them.
Staring with a donar gun @500.00 with a fluted bolt, Bager bolt knob, and truing process your looking at almost $935.00. A lawton action that comes with a recoil lug and fluted bolt are $920.00.
I should know my 6.5-284 is based off a Remington action! Do the math custom Lawton action is cheeper than a fulley custom Remington aciton.
Of course custom smiths check actions they all should and most probley do. I personally asked Dave at PAI and he said everything looked good and checked out fine on it. Your kidding yourself if you think custom actions need trued. If you buy from a reputable company they wont need it! Theres a reason why these companies are still in business and its because they hold very strict tolerances thru-out the action. Point blank if you have to get a custom action blueprinted you might as well start off with a Remington 700 and save alot of money. My suggestion to you YAOG is do some research on custom actions.
Re: Best action to build from
The advantage to the R700 or 'clone' is the footprint: better choice of triggers and stocks. Holding an action to Benchrest tolerances can be counterproductive. For practical accuracy, buy a good barrel and cut a round chamber; that should do it. For this game, stock and trigger choice, for better position shooting, are probably more important than what type of action you buy.
The advantage to the R700 or 'clone' is the footprint: better choice of triggers and stocks. Holding an action to Benchrest tolerances can be counterproductive. For practical accuracy, buy a good barrel and cut a round chamber; that should do it. For this game, stock and trigger choice, for better position shooting, are probably more important than what type of action you buy.
Re: Best action to build from
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: marku</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If your custom gunsmiths are willing to take parts out of a box and screw them together just because they are custom made by a big name actipon maker and expensive please post their names so I can avoid them.</div></div>
Marku,
In no way shape or form did I imply or even state in my post about my G-smith using parts out of a box parts, screwing them together using a big name action blah blah blah, so you can avoid that G-smith.
What I said is a competent could use just about any action from one of the leading manufactures and could turn it into a very accurate, reliable and repeatable weapon. Get your facts straight!
By the way George has built two rifles for me as well I’ve had Mike R do much of my barrel work so I tend to use the best. When it comes to accuracy there are some factory rifles that will out shoot some of the best custom rifles. Case in point, my GAP TIS rifle shot in the .4 to .5’s all day everyday with BH’s match. Terry (Two Shoes) sold me his factory DPMS 24” Bull Panther AR-10 in a sweet deal. From the first rounds I put down the tube, it out shot my GAP TIS rifle hands down, day in and day out with the same BH’s match. Not slighting George or his work in anyway shape or form, as my GAP TIS rifle was a phenomenal shooting rifle, but the DPMS shot much better. The only thing I added to that rifle was a JP trigger. I’ve also never had any reliability or any other issues with my DPMS.
Before climbing on your soap box, make sure you get your facts straight.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: marku</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If your custom gunsmiths are willing to take parts out of a box and screw them together just because they are custom made by a big name actipon maker and expensive please post their names so I can avoid them.</div></div>
Marku,
In no way shape or form did I imply or even state in my post about my G-smith using parts out of a box parts, screwing them together using a big name action blah blah blah, so you can avoid that G-smith.
What I said is a competent could use just about any action from one of the leading manufactures and could turn it into a very accurate, reliable and repeatable weapon. Get your facts straight!
By the way George has built two rifles for me as well I’ve had Mike R do much of my barrel work so I tend to use the best. When it comes to accuracy there are some factory rifles that will out shoot some of the best custom rifles. Case in point, my GAP TIS rifle shot in the .4 to .5’s all day everyday with BH’s match. Terry (Two Shoes) sold me his factory DPMS 24” Bull Panther AR-10 in a sweet deal. From the first rounds I put down the tube, it out shot my GAP TIS rifle hands down, day in and day out with the same BH’s match. Not slighting George or his work in anyway shape or form, as my GAP TIS rifle was a phenomenal shooting rifle, but the DPMS shot much better. The only thing I added to that rifle was a JP trigger. I’ve also never had any reliability or any other issues with my DPMS.
Before climbing on your soap box, make sure you get your facts straight.
Re: Best action to build from
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: marku</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
If your custom gunsmiths are willing to take parts out of a box and screw them together just because they are custom made by a big name actipon maker and expensive please post their names so I can avoid them.
Quoted from Yaog.
</div></div>
Jeff to clairify (and my mistake) I didnt say anything about clairifying anything. That was a quote that Yaog used eariler up top. I just didnt use a "Quote" box when I replied to it.
I know it part my fault but before I step off the "soap box" please read the relpies under questons. I will further learn on how to "Quote" things to clairify myself. Thanks
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: marku</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
If your custom gunsmiths are willing to take parts out of a box and screw them together just because they are custom made by a big name actipon maker and expensive please post their names so I can avoid them.
Quoted from Yaog.
</div></div>
Jeff to clairify (and my mistake) I didnt say anything about clairifying anything. That was a quote that Yaog used eariler up top. I just didnt use a "Quote" box when I replied to it.
I know it part my fault but before I step off the "soap box" please read the relpies under questons. I will further learn on how to "Quote" things to clairify myself. Thanks
Re: Best action to build from
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DANS40X</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hasgun-
Some custom actions are expensive JUNK & not worth trueing.
If your smith doesn't check concentricity osf any custom action-find a 'smith & not a plumber as you'll be money ahead. </div></div>
Name some and actaully contribute to this thread. All these custom actions are leaving the manufacturing facility way out of spec, but what, your assuming, talking out of your ass, or do you actually have some names of some customs that are junk?
Still waiting to be enlightened here..I am sure there are some, but would like to hear some names.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DANS40X</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hasgun-
Some custom actions are expensive JUNK & not worth trueing.
If your smith doesn't check concentricity osf any custom action-find a 'smith & not a plumber as you'll be money ahead. </div></div>
Name some and actaully contribute to this thread. All these custom actions are leaving the manufacturing facility way out of spec, but what, your assuming, talking out of your ass, or do you actually have some names of some customs that are junk?
Still waiting to be enlightened here..I am sure there are some, but would like to hear some names.
Re: Best action to build from
Haha you make the best point out of all. I as you, read this cause i was bored and all i could make was a sarcastic remark with a tiny little bit behind it. Now there is sometime for these guys to knawl on thanks SD.
Forgot to say we measure each and every action that is sent out. If you find one that is more than .0006 out then we screwed up and need to know.
Haha you make the best point out of all. I as you, read this cause i was bored and all i could make was a sarcastic remark with a tiny little bit behind it. Now there is sometime for these guys to knawl on thanks SD.
Forgot to say we measure each and every action that is sent out. If you find one that is more than .0006 out then we screwed up and need to know.
Re: Best action to build from
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: marku</div><div class="ubbcode-body">http://www.customprecisionrifles.co.uk/lawton_actions.htm
Good article on actions. Just to prove my theory on why some customs dont need trued. </div></div>
This was a write up done in precision shooting. Title "Building A Better Mousetrap".
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: marku</div><div class="ubbcode-body">http://www.customprecisionrifles.co.uk/lawton_actions.htm
Good article on actions. Just to prove my theory on why some customs dont need trued. </div></div>
This was a write up done in precision shooting. Title "Building A Better Mousetrap".
Re: Best action to build from
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HasgunWilltravel</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: YAOG</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Marku, Hasgun, Rust,
It does not matter what you think you bought and paid for so much as what you end up with. Every manufacturer makes mistakes and has an odd part get out of their shop and many of the best gunsmiths know this and check and correct every action they receiver be it custom or factory new.
The fact that you start with an expensive custom receiver should mean nothing to a high-end gunsmith who cares about what is leaving his shop. They will still need to confirm the action is dimensionally good enough to meet their general requirements to meet their standards. If your custom gunsmiths are willing to take parts out of a box and screw them together just because they are custom made by a big name actipon maker and expensive please post their names so I can avoid them.
If you seriously think that just because the action parts you bought are custom that they are good enough to use right out of the box you are fooling yourself and should stop with the crack you're smoking already.
Ask one or two of the best high-end gunsmiths here if they are willing to stake their reputation on somebody else's work. Ask George G. or Mike R. and I'm pretty sure neither you nor they will be saving any of your money or their time in the steps taken to build up your custom based action over a new factory action. They may or may not find the parts you sent them are good enough but it is clearly unlikely that you are capable of determining this. Go ahead and ask them for a discount on the time they have to put into building on your custom action. I doubt you will get one.
If the gunsmith has done his job there will be no difference in the accuracy and consistency of weapons based on a custom action when compared to a factory based action. Go ahead and ask them.
</div></div>
lol.
</div></div>
So now that you've had some time to call George G. or Mike R. and ask them to screw your expensive custom action and barrel together what they say? Did you ask them for a discount because you think you've already spent the money to have somebody else check the action and barrel for true and concentricity for them so they don't have to take the time to perform these operations? I'd love to see that written build quote, I'm pretty sure that there will also be a line or two in there that exempts this build from the usual accuracy guarantee. When it's all said and done the only significant difference in cost between builds for a custom action vs a factory action will be the cost of the parts. Or didn't you make that call yet?
Talk about laughing out loud, you cracked me up so much I was rolling on the floor and my ass fell off!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HasgunWilltravel</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: YAOG</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Marku, Hasgun, Rust,
It does not matter what you think you bought and paid for so much as what you end up with. Every manufacturer makes mistakes and has an odd part get out of their shop and many of the best gunsmiths know this and check and correct every action they receiver be it custom or factory new.
The fact that you start with an expensive custom receiver should mean nothing to a high-end gunsmith who cares about what is leaving his shop. They will still need to confirm the action is dimensionally good enough to meet their general requirements to meet their standards. If your custom gunsmiths are willing to take parts out of a box and screw them together just because they are custom made by a big name actipon maker and expensive please post their names so I can avoid them.
If you seriously think that just because the action parts you bought are custom that they are good enough to use right out of the box you are fooling yourself and should stop with the crack you're smoking already.
Ask one or two of the best high-end gunsmiths here if they are willing to stake their reputation on somebody else's work. Ask George G. or Mike R. and I'm pretty sure neither you nor they will be saving any of your money or their time in the steps taken to build up your custom based action over a new factory action. They may or may not find the parts you sent them are good enough but it is clearly unlikely that you are capable of determining this. Go ahead and ask them for a discount on the time they have to put into building on your custom action. I doubt you will get one.
If the gunsmith has done his job there will be no difference in the accuracy and consistency of weapons based on a custom action when compared to a factory based action. Go ahead and ask them.
</div></div>
lol.
</div></div>
So now that you've had some time to call George G. or Mike R. and ask them to screw your expensive custom action and barrel together what they say? Did you ask them for a discount because you think you've already spent the money to have somebody else check the action and barrel for true and concentricity for them so they don't have to take the time to perform these operations? I'd love to see that written build quote, I'm pretty sure that there will also be a line or two in there that exempts this build from the usual accuracy guarantee. When it's all said and done the only significant difference in cost between builds for a custom action vs a factory action will be the cost of the parts. Or didn't you make that call yet?
Talk about laughing out loud, you cracked me up so much I was rolling on the floor and my ass fell off!
Re: Best action to build from
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: marku</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: YAOG</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If your custom gunsmiths are willing to take parts out of a box and screw them together just because they are custom made by a big name actipon maker and expensive please post their names so I can avoid them.</div></div>
Look in my sig im sure you can figure out who my smith is! LOL
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: YAOG</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ask one or two of the best high-end gunsmiths here if they are willing to stake their reputation on somebody else's work. Ask George G. or Mike R.</div></div>
George has used both Lawton and im not 100% sure but I think the Templar action is from Pacific Tool and Gauge.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: YAOG</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If the gunsmith has done his job there will be no difference in the accuracy and consistency of weapons based on a custom action when compared to a factory based action. Go ahead and ask them.</div></div>
Staring with a donar gun @500.00 with a fluted bolt, Bager bolt knob, and truing process your looking at almost $935.00. A lawton action that comes with a recoil lug and fluted bolt are $920.00.
I should know my 6.5-284 is based off a Remington action! Do the math custom Lawton action is cheeper than a fulley custom Remington aciton.
Of course custom smiths check actions they all should and most probley do. I personally asked Dave at PAI and he said everything looked good and checked out fine on it. Your kidding yourself if you think custom actions need trued. If you buy from a reputable company they wont need it! Theres a reason why these companies are still in business and its because they hold very strict tolerances thru-out the action. Point blank if you have to get a custom action blueprinted you might as well start off with a Remington 700 and save alot of money. My suggestion to you YAOG is do some research on custom actions. </div></div>
Do you not know how to use the message quote system? It's not too hard to use, even an idiot like me can use it without much trouble. Here I've fixed your post and quotes for you so people can attribute your thoughts to you and not to me.
O.K. let me get this straight, your gunsmith is PAI/APA? Oh, O.K. now I see the problem, I already avoid them.
I don't doubt that GAP has used various custom actions for customer builds. I also highly doubt that GAP simply screws a barrel into these actions without setting them up to check for true, concentricity etc. If GAP did this I could see why so many people claim their guns shoot better than they can hold. After all they would need to cover for their expensive poor shooting weapons. But we all know this is not the case and that GAP is not giving you any discounts for basing a build on a custom action instead of a factory Remington action because they do not save any significant time by using a custom action instead of a factory action.
Why do you have to buy a whole donor gun? Good Remington 700 actions are less expensive to buy, easier and cheaper to ship and you don't end up with a bunch of stuff you have to get rid of. Here on the Hide a good Remington 700 action with bolt are easily found for $400 or less. Why would you pay for fluting the bolt, looks? That's just stupid and I don't see any reason to need a big knob as the stock knobs are more reliable. If I was going to spend money on the bolt handle I would have a couple of screws run through the handle into the bolt body to prevent a complete weapon failure in the event of the silver solder joint letting go. I'm pretty sure that you can get a Remington 700 blueprinted and ready to go for $350 or so without the fancy stuff. This gives me a ready to use Remington 700 action for about $750 which is about 20% less money than that fancy custom action BEFORE you get it blueprinted which will cost no less money than blueprinting the Remington action. So how is $1,200+ for a bottom feeder custom action less than $750 for a blueprinted Remington 700 action? For the same money I'd rather have a complete blueprinted factory Remington 700 action with a Krieger barrel. But that's just me, YMMV.
I did my due diligence and the math a long time ago. Custom actions are an expensive option that give you no advantage except bragging rights at the range. Mike R. or George G. have said this and will tell you the same thing. The only time a custom action might offer some advantage is in terms of durability for very high pressure rounds. A blueprinted custom action offers no shooting performance advantage when compared with a blueprinted factory action. Go ahead and ask them, here are their numbers: Tac Ops (310)275-8797, GA Precision (816)221-1844.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: marku</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: YAOG</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If your custom gunsmiths are willing to take parts out of a box and screw them together just because they are custom made by a big name actipon maker and expensive please post their names so I can avoid them.</div></div>
Look in my sig im sure you can figure out who my smith is! LOL
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: YAOG</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ask one or two of the best high-end gunsmiths here if they are willing to stake their reputation on somebody else's work. Ask George G. or Mike R.</div></div>
George has used both Lawton and im not 100% sure but I think the Templar action is from Pacific Tool and Gauge.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: YAOG</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If the gunsmith has done his job there will be no difference in the accuracy and consistency of weapons based on a custom action when compared to a factory based action. Go ahead and ask them.</div></div>
Staring with a donar gun @500.00 with a fluted bolt, Bager bolt knob, and truing process your looking at almost $935.00. A lawton action that comes with a recoil lug and fluted bolt are $920.00.
I should know my 6.5-284 is based off a Remington action! Do the math custom Lawton action is cheeper than a fulley custom Remington aciton.
Of course custom smiths check actions they all should and most probley do. I personally asked Dave at PAI and he said everything looked good and checked out fine on it. Your kidding yourself if you think custom actions need trued. If you buy from a reputable company they wont need it! Theres a reason why these companies are still in business and its because they hold very strict tolerances thru-out the action. Point blank if you have to get a custom action blueprinted you might as well start off with a Remington 700 and save alot of money. My suggestion to you YAOG is do some research on custom actions. </div></div>
Do you not know how to use the message quote system? It's not too hard to use, even an idiot like me can use it without much trouble. Here I've fixed your post and quotes for you so people can attribute your thoughts to you and not to me.
O.K. let me get this straight, your gunsmith is PAI/APA? Oh, O.K. now I see the problem, I already avoid them.
I don't doubt that GAP has used various custom actions for customer builds. I also highly doubt that GAP simply screws a barrel into these actions without setting them up to check for true, concentricity etc. If GAP did this I could see why so many people claim their guns shoot better than they can hold. After all they would need to cover for their expensive poor shooting weapons. But we all know this is not the case and that GAP is not giving you any discounts for basing a build on a custom action instead of a factory Remington action because they do not save any significant time by using a custom action instead of a factory action.
Why do you have to buy a whole donor gun? Good Remington 700 actions are less expensive to buy, easier and cheaper to ship and you don't end up with a bunch of stuff you have to get rid of. Here on the Hide a good Remington 700 action with bolt are easily found for $400 or less. Why would you pay for fluting the bolt, looks? That's just stupid and I don't see any reason to need a big knob as the stock knobs are more reliable. If I was going to spend money on the bolt handle I would have a couple of screws run through the handle into the bolt body to prevent a complete weapon failure in the event of the silver solder joint letting go. I'm pretty sure that you can get a Remington 700 blueprinted and ready to go for $350 or so without the fancy stuff. This gives me a ready to use Remington 700 action for about $750 which is about 20% less money than that fancy custom action BEFORE you get it blueprinted which will cost no less money than blueprinting the Remington action. So how is $1,200+ for a bottom feeder custom action less than $750 for a blueprinted Remington 700 action? For the same money I'd rather have a complete blueprinted factory Remington 700 action with a Krieger barrel. But that's just me, YMMV.
I did my due diligence and the math a long time ago. Custom actions are an expensive option that give you no advantage except bragging rights at the range. Mike R. or George G. have said this and will tell you the same thing. The only time a custom action might offer some advantage is in terms of durability for very high pressure rounds. A blueprinted custom action offers no shooting performance advantage when compared with a blueprinted factory action. Go ahead and ask them, here are their numbers: Tac Ops (310)275-8797, GA Precision (816)221-1844.
Re: Best action to build from
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scooter-PIE</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: YAOG</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
If the gunsmith has done his job there will be no difference in the accuracy and consistency of weapons based on a custom action when compared to a factory based action. Go ahead and ask them.
</div></div>
That may be true, but you might find it cheaper to buy a precision custom action in the end. Tolerances matter and a manufacturer that holds to extremely tight tolerances(and constantly measures those) simply won't have many actions that need any adjustment. I did ask my world-record-holding gunsmith about the difference between custom and truing. He said just go with a custom: he won't have to do much or anything to it.
IF you have the funds, the decision to use a custom action seems pretty simple these days. Surgeon for example, now sells a Remington clone for $700. You'll spend more money than that getting a gunsmith to true-up a Remington and the Surgeon will hold its value much better. </div></div>
So you think that Tac Ops and GAP give you a discount for sending them a custom action instead of a factory Remington action? When they get around to giving you that discount please post that build quote. Any action custom or factory will need to go through the same operations to blueprint the action. No good, self-respecting gunsmith will simply bolt an action to a barrel and call it good and any gunsmith who does this won't gaurantee this so called custom weapon's accuracy. The reason Tac Ops and GAP will give you an accuracy gaurantee is because they check and blueprint every factory AND custom action. The difference in cost for a custom built rifle using a custom action vs a factory action is the extra cost of the custom action. There is no cost savings or shooting performance advantage to be had by using a custom action.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scooter-PIE</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: YAOG</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
If the gunsmith has done his job there will be no difference in the accuracy and consistency of weapons based on a custom action when compared to a factory based action. Go ahead and ask them.
</div></div>
That may be true, but you might find it cheaper to buy a precision custom action in the end. Tolerances matter and a manufacturer that holds to extremely tight tolerances(and constantly measures those) simply won't have many actions that need any adjustment. I did ask my world-record-holding gunsmith about the difference between custom and truing. He said just go with a custom: he won't have to do much or anything to it.
IF you have the funds, the decision to use a custom action seems pretty simple these days. Surgeon for example, now sells a Remington clone for $700. You'll spend more money than that getting a gunsmith to true-up a Remington and the Surgeon will hold its value much better. </div></div>
So you think that Tac Ops and GAP give you a discount for sending them a custom action instead of a factory Remington action? When they get around to giving you that discount please post that build quote. Any action custom or factory will need to go through the same operations to blueprint the action. No good, self-respecting gunsmith will simply bolt an action to a barrel and call it good and any gunsmith who does this won't gaurantee this so called custom weapon's accuracy. The reason Tac Ops and GAP will give you an accuracy gaurantee is because they check and blueprint every factory AND custom action. The difference in cost for a custom built rifle using a custom action vs a factory action is the extra cost of the custom action. There is no cost savings or shooting performance advantage to be had by using a custom action.
Re: Best action to build from
YAOG for one who are you to say what a smith does and what he has to true up or not before he chambers that barrel? Do they do what they say?And are you seriously saying that all of the custom action makers are wasting our time and we should stop building them and start using remmy actions? If you have to ture up a custom before you start it needs sent back and replaced. Your very biased opinion has be noted but you should use a little more facts then just boasting about how you know so much... Dont worry it has made me sound like a ass before as well.
YAOG for one who are you to say what a smith does and what he has to true up or not before he chambers that barrel? Do they do what they say?And are you seriously saying that all of the custom action makers are wasting our time and we should stop building them and start using remmy actions? If you have to ture up a custom before you start it needs sent back and replaced. Your very biased opinion has be noted but you should use a little more facts then just boasting about how you know so much... Dont worry it has made me sound like a ass before as well.
Re: Best action to build from
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: YAOG</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Here on the Hide a good Remington 700 action with bolt are easily found for $400 or less. Why would you pay for fluting the bolt, looks? That's just stupid and I don't see any reason to need a big knob as the stock knobs are more reliable. If I was going to spend money on the bolt handle I would have a couple of screws run through the handle into the bolt body to prevent a complete weapon failure in the event of the silver solder joint letting go. I'm pretty sure that you can get a Remington 700 blueprinted and ready to go for $350 or so without the fancy stuff. This gives me a ready to use Remington 700 action for about $750 which is about 20% less money than that fancy custom action BEFORE you get it blueprinted which will cost no less money than blueprinting the Remington action. So how is $1,200+ for a bottom feeder custom action less than $750 for a blueprinted Remington 700 action? For the same money I'd rather have a complete blueprinted factory Remington 700 action with a Krieger barrel. But that's just me, YMMV.
</div></div>
This is where your facts are wrong. What do you mean you will have 1200 in a custom? You say you have done your research but this clearly proves that you havent. I dont mean to be a ass but you posts are very... not factual oriented.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: YAOG</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Here on the Hide a good Remington 700 action with bolt are easily found for $400 or less. Why would you pay for fluting the bolt, looks? That's just stupid and I don't see any reason to need a big knob as the stock knobs are more reliable. If I was going to spend money on the bolt handle I would have a couple of screws run through the handle into the bolt body to prevent a complete weapon failure in the event of the silver solder joint letting go. I'm pretty sure that you can get a Remington 700 blueprinted and ready to go for $350 or so without the fancy stuff. This gives me a ready to use Remington 700 action for about $750 which is about 20% less money than that fancy custom action BEFORE you get it blueprinted which will cost no less money than blueprinting the Remington action. So how is $1,200+ for a bottom feeder custom action less than $750 for a blueprinted Remington 700 action? For the same money I'd rather have a complete blueprinted factory Remington 700 action with a Krieger barrel. But that's just me, YMMV.
</div></div>
This is where your facts are wrong. What do you mean you will have 1200 in a custom? You say you have done your research but this clearly proves that you havent. I dont mean to be a ass but you posts are very... not factual oriented.
Re: Best action to build from
O my lord what a waste of time to read this missed facts all over
You can get a custom action for around 800
There been GB where people have bought a custom actions for around 680 dollars
Custom actions are better for a couple different reasons other then just group size. but in the end both can shoot so close to the same it no longer matters.
Now if you want to talk about the very best shooting action i still believe it a custom hands down. Look at the Benchrest shooters all the top places are shooting customs There a reason for that.
But we are not benchrest shooting here we care about mud dirt and being tired while shooting so if the custom might shoot a group a hair tighter it so small it no longer matters with the other factors.
If you have a remington already build it. If starting with no action look around and go custom.
O my lord what a waste of time to read this missed facts all over
You can get a custom action for around 800
There been GB where people have bought a custom actions for around 680 dollars
Custom actions are better for a couple different reasons other then just group size. but in the end both can shoot so close to the same it no longer matters.
Now if you want to talk about the very best shooting action i still believe it a custom hands down. Look at the Benchrest shooters all the top places are shooting customs There a reason for that.
But we are not benchrest shooting here we care about mud dirt and being tired while shooting so if the custom might shoot a group a hair tighter it so small it no longer matters with the other factors.
If you have a remington already build it. If starting with no action look around and go custom.
Re: Best action to build from
This going to be completely useless without pics but, I have since this thread started sold my Browning A-Bolt.
I acquired from AZ15 here on the hide a New Never been fired Remington 700 Compact Tactical .308 Win. As it stands now its completely stock from Remington. I have a Leatherwood 20 MOA 1 pc. base on it with Burris XTR Med rings and A Burris 3-9X40 Fullfield II TAC2 Ballistic Plex with the hunter knobs. For now until I get it all together.
http://www.remington.com/products/firear...ct_tactical.asp
http://www.burrisoptics.com/fftactical1.html#3x9x
This going to be completely useless without pics but, I have since this thread started sold my Browning A-Bolt.
I acquired from AZ15 here on the hide a New Never been fired Remington 700 Compact Tactical .308 Win. As it stands now its completely stock from Remington. I have a Leatherwood 20 MOA 1 pc. base on it with Burris XTR Med rings and A Burris 3-9X40 Fullfield II TAC2 Ballistic Plex with the hunter knobs. For now until I get it all together.
http://www.remington.com/products/firear...ct_tactical.asp
http://www.burrisoptics.com/fftactical1.html#3x9x
Re: Best action to build from
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BMG50CAL</div><div class="ubbcode-body">O my lord what a waste of time to read this missed facts all over</div></div>
Let's stick to the subject, no need to bring more of your religion into the discussion. If this thread is a waste of your time then surely it is an even larger waste of time for the readers of this thread to decipher what you have written. Please write in complete thoughts and sentences so others who may not be as enlightened as yourself may follow along.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BMG50CAL</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You can get a custom action for around 800
There been GB where people have bought a custom actions for around 680 dollars</div></div>
Sure and there have been good Remington actions sold here on the Hide and on GB for less than $300. I'm talking about what can normally be found in a short period of time without getting lucky and not the lowest price in history.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BMG50CAL</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Custom actions are better for a couple different reasons other then just group size. but in the end both can shoot so close to the same it no longer matters.</div></div>
Well seeing that you agree with me that ultimately group size will be the same on a well finished action be it custom or factory what are these <span style="font-weight: bold">"better for a couple different reasons other than just group size"</span> undisclosed, mythical reasons?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BMG50CAL</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Now if you want to talk about the very best shooting action i still believe it a custom hands down. Look at the Benchrest shooters all the top places are shooting customs There a reason for that.
But we are not benchrest shooting here we care about mud dirt and being tired while shooting so if the custom might shoot a group a hair tighter it so small it no longer matters with the other factors.</div></div>
I don't doubt that you "believe" what you are posting and that you believe the best shooting actions are customs just as you and some others here believe there is no need to blueprint a custom action. But I'm afraid that faith does not make for consistent, repeatable weapons, measurement, measurement, more measurement, machining technique and logical machine processing and operation does. If you believe that any of the popular expensive so called custom actions are somehow "better" (which I guess is something which cannot be demonstrated on paper) maybe you also "believe" in $2,000 speaker cables. I'm pretty sure there are more than a few BR fans lurking here on the Hide just as there are Hide members lurking on the BR sites. Any serious BR shooter will tell you precision BR shooting is a game of reducing variables to get smaller group sizes. Variables tend to stack and usually in the wrong direction for some reason to hear Murphy tell the tale. This is why many successful BR shooters are using custom actions that have been blueprinted and often modified to suite their needs and understanding of how a BR gun should work. Of course there are also a lot of successful BR guns that are simply blueprinted and modified various factory actions also. Within the various BR rules some classes are better suited to custom actions.
So are you claiming to be some sort of LE/military sniper or maybe a competitive tactical shooter or is it some sort of fantasy of yours? I think the majority of members here on the Hide are in neither of the previous groups. So with no disrespect intended I'll say this, as with most other hobbies for the most part these forums are populated primarily by hobbyists and fans/wannabes of the previous groups. In this population I'd guess most folks shoot their long arms at a range maybe 100-200 yards, 300 yards tops or so and occasionally go hunting. Most of the weapons are probably safe queens (not that there's anything wrong with it) kept clean and protected in nice clean cases and carried to and from the range in nice shiny SUVs and pickups. I'd guess that there are less than 5% of the Hide's member population dragging their weapons through the sand in active LE/military duty or even actively shooting in organized competitive tactical events more than 4 times a year. Maybe I'll do a poll on this after all I could be wrong.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BMG50CAL</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you have a remington already build it. If starting with no action look around and go custom. </div></div>
This is not bad advice but is at odds with itself. If you are going to shoot the rifle regularly and have to consider your budget for ammo or reloading components (and who doesn't? these days) there is some not insignificant money to be saved shooting a blueprinted factory action. If money is no object and for some reason you care about your rifle's status and by association your own status along with your "better for a couple different reasons other than just group size" at the range a custom action may be a better choice for you. As you say there will be no difference in group sizes with well prepared actions and barrels.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BMG50CAL</div><div class="ubbcode-body">O my lord what a waste of time to read this missed facts all over</div></div>
Let's stick to the subject, no need to bring more of your religion into the discussion. If this thread is a waste of your time then surely it is an even larger waste of time for the readers of this thread to decipher what you have written. Please write in complete thoughts and sentences so others who may not be as enlightened as yourself may follow along.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BMG50CAL</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You can get a custom action for around 800
There been GB where people have bought a custom actions for around 680 dollars</div></div>
Sure and there have been good Remington actions sold here on the Hide and on GB for less than $300. I'm talking about what can normally be found in a short period of time without getting lucky and not the lowest price in history.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BMG50CAL</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Custom actions are better for a couple different reasons other then just group size. but in the end both can shoot so close to the same it no longer matters.</div></div>
Well seeing that you agree with me that ultimately group size will be the same on a well finished action be it custom or factory what are these <span style="font-weight: bold">"better for a couple different reasons other than just group size"</span> undisclosed, mythical reasons?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BMG50CAL</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Now if you want to talk about the very best shooting action i still believe it a custom hands down. Look at the Benchrest shooters all the top places are shooting customs There a reason for that.
But we are not benchrest shooting here we care about mud dirt and being tired while shooting so if the custom might shoot a group a hair tighter it so small it no longer matters with the other factors.</div></div>
I don't doubt that you "believe" what you are posting and that you believe the best shooting actions are customs just as you and some others here believe there is no need to blueprint a custom action. But I'm afraid that faith does not make for consistent, repeatable weapons, measurement, measurement, more measurement, machining technique and logical machine processing and operation does. If you believe that any of the popular expensive so called custom actions are somehow "better" (which I guess is something which cannot be demonstrated on paper) maybe you also "believe" in $2,000 speaker cables. I'm pretty sure there are more than a few BR fans lurking here on the Hide just as there are Hide members lurking on the BR sites. Any serious BR shooter will tell you precision BR shooting is a game of reducing variables to get smaller group sizes. Variables tend to stack and usually in the wrong direction for some reason to hear Murphy tell the tale. This is why many successful BR shooters are using custom actions that have been blueprinted and often modified to suite their needs and understanding of how a BR gun should work. Of course there are also a lot of successful BR guns that are simply blueprinted and modified various factory actions also. Within the various BR rules some classes are better suited to custom actions.
So are you claiming to be some sort of LE/military sniper or maybe a competitive tactical shooter or is it some sort of fantasy of yours? I think the majority of members here on the Hide are in neither of the previous groups. So with no disrespect intended I'll say this, as with most other hobbies for the most part these forums are populated primarily by hobbyists and fans/wannabes of the previous groups. In this population I'd guess most folks shoot their long arms at a range maybe 100-200 yards, 300 yards tops or so and occasionally go hunting. Most of the weapons are probably safe queens (not that there's anything wrong with it) kept clean and protected in nice clean cases and carried to and from the range in nice shiny SUVs and pickups. I'd guess that there are less than 5% of the Hide's member population dragging their weapons through the sand in active LE/military duty or even actively shooting in organized competitive tactical events more than 4 times a year. Maybe I'll do a poll on this after all I could be wrong.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BMG50CAL</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you have a remington already build it. If starting with no action look around and go custom. </div></div>
This is not bad advice but is at odds with itself. If you are going to shoot the rifle regularly and have to consider your budget for ammo or reloading components (and who doesn't? these days) there is some not insignificant money to be saved shooting a blueprinted factory action. If money is no object and for some reason you care about your rifle's status and by association your own status along with your "better for a couple different reasons other than just group size" at the range a custom action may be a better choice for you. As you say there will be no difference in group sizes with well prepared actions and barrels.
Re: Best action to build from
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: StealthMode223</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This going to be completely useless without pics but, I have since this thread started sold my Browning A-Bolt.
I acquired from AZ15 here on the hide a New Never been fired Remington 700 Compact Tactical .308 Win. As it stands now its completely stock from Remington. I have a Leatherwood 20 MOA 1 pc. base on it with Burris XTR Med rings and A Burris 3-9X40 Fullfield II TAC2 Ballistic Plex with the hunter knobs. For now until I get it all together.
http://www.remington.com/products/firear...ct_tactical.asp
http://www.burrisoptics.com/fftactical1.html#3x9x</div></div>
Hey Stealth,
I don't need images to see that you have a good basic foundation weapon to start with! Go out and shoot it before you do anything to the action or stock to see where you are with the rifle. You may find it is good enough for you at the moment and there is no reason to change anything yet. As your skill level increases you will find things you would like changed on the weapon. Go out and shoot the thing to break in the barrel and get some trigger time on it for yourself. Congrats and enjoy it!
Cheers/Chip
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: StealthMode223</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This going to be completely useless without pics but, I have since this thread started sold my Browning A-Bolt.
I acquired from AZ15 here on the hide a New Never been fired Remington 700 Compact Tactical .308 Win. As it stands now its completely stock from Remington. I have a Leatherwood 20 MOA 1 pc. base on it with Burris XTR Med rings and A Burris 3-9X40 Fullfield II TAC2 Ballistic Plex with the hunter knobs. For now until I get it all together.
http://www.remington.com/products/firear...ct_tactical.asp
http://www.burrisoptics.com/fftactical1.html#3x9x</div></div>
Hey Stealth,
I don't need images to see that you have a good basic foundation weapon to start with! Go out and shoot it before you do anything to the action or stock to see where you are with the rifle. You may find it is good enough for you at the moment and there is no reason to change anything yet. As your skill level increases you will find things you would like changed on the weapon. Go out and shoot the thing to break in the barrel and get some trigger time on it for yourself. Congrats and enjoy it!
Cheers/Chip
Re: Best action to build from
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So now that you've had some time to call George G. or Mike R. and ask them to screw your expensive custom action and barrel together what they say? Did you ask them for a discount because you think you've already spent the money to have somebody else check the action and barrel for true and concentricity for them so they don't have to take the time to perform these operations? I'd love to see that written build quote, I'm pretty sure that there will also be a line or two in there that exempts this build from the usual accuracy guarantee. When it's all said and done the only significant difference in cost between builds for a custom action vs a factory action will be the cost of the parts. Or didn't you make that call yet?
Talk about laughing out loud, you cracked me up so much I was rolling on the floor and my ass fell off!</div></div>
Wow talk about raising a post from the dead.
When I had my build done they werent "Package" rifles like the Rock or Chandler. Jered's got prices on all of his stuff on a individual basis. He recieved my action (and checked it) and noticed it was within his tolerences that he states on his site then its done. Why charge a customer for work that doesnt need to be done? If a action specs out .0002 then why try to make it better?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So now that you've had some time to call George G. or Mike R. and ask them to screw your expensive custom action and barrel together what they say? Did you ask them for a discount because you think you've already spent the money to have somebody else check the action and barrel for true and concentricity for them so they don't have to take the time to perform these operations? I'd love to see that written build quote, I'm pretty sure that there will also be a line or two in there that exempts this build from the usual accuracy guarantee. When it's all said and done the only significant difference in cost between builds for a custom action vs a factory action will be the cost of the parts. Or didn't you make that call yet?
Talk about laughing out loud, you cracked me up so much I was rolling on the floor and my ass fell off!</div></div>
Wow talk about raising a post from the dead.
When I had my build done they werent "Package" rifles like the Rock or Chandler. Jered's got prices on all of his stuff on a individual basis. He recieved my action (and checked it) and noticed it was within his tolerences that he states on his site then its done. Why charge a customer for work that doesnt need to be done? If a action specs out .0002 then why try to make it better?
Re: Best action to build from
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Do you not know how to use the message quote system? It's not too hard to use, even an idiot like me can use it without much trouble. Here I've fixed your post and quotes for you so people can attribute your thoughts to you and not to me.
O.K. let me get this straight, your gunsmith is PAI/APA? Oh, O.K. now I see the problem, I already avoid them.</div></div>
You dont know very much. Jered builds some of the most accurate rifles being built today. Dont know what "Problems youve had with them, but Ive never seen a person post on here that complained about their APA/PAI rifle in regards of accuracy or fit and finish.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Do you not know how to use the message quote system? It's not too hard to use, even an idiot like me can use it without much trouble. Here I've fixed your post and quotes for you so people can attribute your thoughts to you and not to me.
O.K. let me get this straight, your gunsmith is PAI/APA? Oh, O.K. now I see the problem, I already avoid them.</div></div>
You dont know very much. Jered builds some of the most accurate rifles being built today. Dont know what "Problems youve had with them, but Ive never seen a person post on here that complained about their APA/PAI rifle in regards of accuracy or fit and finish.
Re: Best action to build from
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The reason Tac Ops and GAP will give you an accuracy gaurantee is because they check and blueprint every factory AND custom action. The difference in cost for a custom built rifle using a custom action vs a factory action is the extra cost of the custom action. There is no cost savings or shooting performance advantage to be had by using a custom action.</div></div>
Why dont George come on here and clairify things up a bit. How do you know that they blueprint every custom action that comes in the shop? I never said, you should just screw the barrel on without checking if for being true and square. It should always be checked. I Know BAT machine got a excellent reputation for building a really good custom action why true it up? Like stated above if it within what leaves their shop then why charge the customer for work thats not been completed.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The reason Tac Ops and GAP will give you an accuracy gaurantee is because they check and blueprint every factory AND custom action. The difference in cost for a custom built rifle using a custom action vs a factory action is the extra cost of the custom action. There is no cost savings or shooting performance advantage to be had by using a custom action.</div></div>
Why dont George come on here and clairify things up a bit. How do you know that they blueprint every custom action that comes in the shop? I never said, you should just screw the barrel on without checking if for being true and square. It should always be checked. I Know BAT machine got a excellent reputation for building a really good custom action why true it up? Like stated above if it within what leaves their shop then why charge the customer for work thats not been completed.
Re: Best action to build from
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NotAGuru</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: YAOG</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here on the Hide a good Remington 700 action with bolt are easily found for $400 or less. Why would you pay for fluting the bolt, looks? That's just stupid and I don't see any reason to need a big knob as the stock knobs are more reliable. If I was going to spend money on the bolt handle I would have a couple of screws run through the handle into the bolt body to prevent a complete weapon failure in the event of the silver solder joint letting go. I'm pretty sure that you can get a Remington 700 blueprinted and ready to go for $350 or so without the fancy stuff. This gives me a ready to use Remington 700 action for about $750 which is about 20% less money than that fancy custom action BEFORE you get it blueprinted which will cost no less money than blueprinting the Remington action. So how is $1,200+ for a bottom feeder custom action less than $750 for a blueprinted Remington 700 action? For the same money I'd rather have a complete blueprinted factory Remington 700 action with a Krieger barrel. But that's just me, YMMV.</div></div>
This is where your facts are wrong. What do you mean you will have 1200 in a custom? You say you have done your research but this clearly proves that you havent. I dont mean to be a ass but you posts are very... not factual oriented. </div></div>
To what facts that I have posted in this thread are you refering to as "wrong?" I've plenty of research and thought put into custom rifles and custom actions over the last 40 years, what did I post that "clearly proves that I havent" done so? What part of my posts are "very... not factual oriented"? Please post so I can understand what you are trying to say.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NotAGuru</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: YAOG</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here on the Hide a good Remington 700 action with bolt are easily found for $400 or less. Why would you pay for fluting the bolt, looks? That's just stupid and I don't see any reason to need a big knob as the stock knobs are more reliable. If I was going to spend money on the bolt handle I would have a couple of screws run through the handle into the bolt body to prevent a complete weapon failure in the event of the silver solder joint letting go. I'm pretty sure that you can get a Remington 700 blueprinted and ready to go for $350 or so without the fancy stuff. This gives me a ready to use Remington 700 action for about $750 which is about 20% less money than that fancy custom action BEFORE you get it blueprinted which will cost no less money than blueprinting the Remington action. So how is $1,200+ for a bottom feeder custom action less than $750 for a blueprinted Remington 700 action? For the same money I'd rather have a complete blueprinted factory Remington 700 action with a Krieger barrel. But that's just me, YMMV.</div></div>
This is where your facts are wrong. What do you mean you will have 1200 in a custom? You say you have done your research but this clearly proves that you havent. I dont mean to be a ass but you posts are very... not factual oriented. </div></div>
To what facts that I have posted in this thread are you refering to as "wrong?" I've plenty of research and thought put into custom rifles and custom actions over the last 40 years, what did I post that "clearly proves that I havent" done so? What part of my posts are "very... not factual oriented"? Please post so I can understand what you are trying to say.
Re: Best action to build from
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A blueprinted custom action offers no shooting performance advantage when compared with a blueprinted factory action. Go ahead and ask them, here are their numbers: Tac Ops (310)275-8797, GA Precision (816)221-1844</div></div>
Ill agree there my blueprinted Remington action shoot just as well as my Lawton action. Of course my Lawton wasnt "blueprinted" either? So my custom action that wasnt blueprinted shoots just as good as M700 that are blueprinted? WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!
And before anybody call George and "bugs" him on this stupid question let it go. I also wouldnt throw someones phone numbers out there if they dony want to be dragged into this thread. If George wants to speak he'll do it on this thread.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A blueprinted custom action offers no shooting performance advantage when compared with a blueprinted factory action. Go ahead and ask them, here are their numbers: Tac Ops (310)275-8797, GA Precision (816)221-1844</div></div>
Ill agree there my blueprinted Remington action shoot just as well as my Lawton action. Of course my Lawton wasnt "blueprinted" either? So my custom action that wasnt blueprinted shoots just as good as M700 that are blueprinted? WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!
And before anybody call George and "bugs" him on this stupid question let it go. I also wouldnt throw someones phone numbers out there if they dony want to be dragged into this thread. If George wants to speak he'll do it on this thread.
Re: Best action to build from
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: marku</div><div class="ubbcode-body">http://www.customprecisionrifles.co.uk/lawton_actions.htm
Good article on actions. Just to prove my theory on why some customs dont need trued. </div></div>
Sure give us a bad link to back up what you say. Great job!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: marku</div><div class="ubbcode-body">http://www.customprecisionrifles.co.uk/lawton_actions.htm
Good article on actions. Just to prove my theory on why some customs dont need trued. </div></div>
Sure give us a bad link to back up what you say. Great job!
Re: Best action to build from
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: marku</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Apparently the link is down YAOG. If you would have tried it a while back when I first posted it, it would have worked. That link was posted over a month ago. </div></div>
I clicked on the link shortly after you posted it and it was already down. I recently checked the link again and it was down and the host website is also seems to be gone now. I again checked your link today before replying to your old post and it is still down. Trust me if there is some magical bullet that a custom action offers in terms of what it can print on paper I'm all ears. But so far you have addressed nothing in reply to my assertions about custom actions with anything concrete or logically constructed.
<span style="font-style: italic"><span style="color: #3333FF"><span style="font-weight: bold">I went back and reread PAI/APA's machine service work pages and see that you were looking at their Remington blueprint service. Please note that this is also the tolerance PAI/APA uses for barrel work. I retract this statement and apologize for misunderstnading what you were trying to say.</span></span></span>
Even your own claims are incorrect or misunderstood by you about PAI/APA's machine work. That 0.0002" tolerance value you posted for your custom action is for barrel work. GEEZ if you are going to make claims for other people at least get your data right and use it in the right context.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: marku</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Apparently the link is down YAOG. If you would have tried it a while back when I first posted it, it would have worked. That link was posted over a month ago. </div></div>
I clicked on the link shortly after you posted it and it was already down. I recently checked the link again and it was down and the host website is also seems to be gone now. I again checked your link today before replying to your old post and it is still down. Trust me if there is some magical bullet that a custom action offers in terms of what it can print on paper I'm all ears. But so far you have addressed nothing in reply to my assertions about custom actions with anything concrete or logically constructed.
<span style="font-style: italic"><span style="color: #3333FF"><span style="font-weight: bold">I went back and reread PAI/APA's machine service work pages and see that you were looking at their Remington blueprint service. Please note that this is also the tolerance PAI/APA uses for barrel work. I retract this statement and apologize for misunderstnading what you were trying to say.</span></span></span>
Even your own claims are incorrect or misunderstood by you about PAI/APA's machine work. That 0.0002" tolerance value you posted for your custom action is for barrel work. GEEZ if you are going to make claims for other people at least get your data right and use it in the right context.
Re: Best action to build from
Holy shit 2060 views and just over 80 posts to this thread that started out as a question about accurizing a Browning A-Bolt that I once had and was considering accurizing. I am glad to see that enough of the hide patrons are passionate enough about the sport to argue their points to the death. I also frequent lots of Archery sites and moderate one in particular. I often have to remind guys and gals that We " Sportsman", "Hunters", "Target Shooters" are a dieing breed. A lot of folks will cast stones at those who choose to use crossbows instead of compounds or tradional saying they are cheaters and no good to our sport or in this case the issues of customs vs. slave actions. Lets not forget that all of us here are ambassadors of our hobbies and passions. I only wanted to ask a question based on the equipment I had available at the time. I believe that healthy discussion among people like us will only grow awareness for our respective sports. Just my .02
Holy shit 2060 views and just over 80 posts to this thread that started out as a question about accurizing a Browning A-Bolt that I once had and was considering accurizing. I am glad to see that enough of the hide patrons are passionate enough about the sport to argue their points to the death. I also frequent lots of Archery sites and moderate one in particular. I often have to remind guys and gals that We " Sportsman", "Hunters", "Target Shooters" are a dieing breed. A lot of folks will cast stones at those who choose to use crossbows instead of compounds or tradional saying they are cheaters and no good to our sport or in this case the issues of customs vs. slave actions. Lets not forget that all of us here are ambassadors of our hobbies and passions. I only wanted to ask a question based on the equipment I had available at the time. I believe that healthy discussion among people like us will only grow awareness for our respective sports. Just my .02
Re: Best action to build from
YAOG you again amuse me. Your just a KNOW IT ALL arent you?
http://www.americanprecisionarms.com/pc-41-31-true-blue-print-remington-action-bolt.aspx
All surfaces are trued perpendicular or parallel within .0002 (2/10,000).
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">GEEZ if you are going to make claims for other people at least get your data right and use it in the right context</div></div>
<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="text-decoration: underline">GEEZ you need to know what you talking about!</span></span>
YAOG you again amuse me. Your just a KNOW IT ALL arent you?
http://www.americanprecisionarms.com/pc-41-31-true-blue-print-remington-action-bolt.aspx
All surfaces are trued perpendicular or parallel within .0002 (2/10,000).
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">GEEZ if you are going to make claims for other people at least get your data right and use it in the right context</div></div>
<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="text-decoration: underline">GEEZ you need to know what you talking about!</span></span>
Re: Best action to build from
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BMG50CAL</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You can get a custom action for around 800
There been GB where people have bought a custom actions for around 680 dollars</div></div>
Sure and there have been good Remington actions sold here on the Hide and on GB for less than $300. I'm talking about what can normally be found in a short period of time without getting lucky and not the lowest price in history.
Im just saying that a custom can be had for around the same price after you factor in all the custom work to true it up
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BMG50CAL</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Custom actions are better for a couple different reasons other then just group size. but in the end both can shoot so close to the same it no longer matters.</div></div>
Well seeing that you agree with me that ultimately group size will be the same on a well finished action be it custom or factory what are these <span style="font-weight: bold">"better for a couple different reasons other than just group size"</span> undisclosed, mythical reasons?
The base metal is of better quality and when they hardened the metal it is normally done before the machining But with out picking one custom action to judge off cause they all have different high point and low points. custom are stiffer Ive hung 32 inch tube off customs with no flexing. cant say the same for remington. Ive crack the bolt handle off not happening on a custom the bolt arent cast.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BMG50CAL</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Now if you want to talk about the very best shooting action i still believe it a custom hands down. Look at the Benchrest shooters all the top places are shooting customs There a reason for that.
But we are not benchrest shooting here we care about mud dirt and being tired while shooting so if the custom might shoot a group a hair tighter it so small it no longer matters with the other factors.</div></div>
I don't doubt that you "believe" what you are posting and that you believe the best shooting actions are customs just as you and some others here believe there is no need to blueprint a custom action. But I'm afraid that faith does not make for consistent, repeatable weapons, measurement, measurement, more measurement, machining technique and logical machine processing and operation does. If you believe that any of the popular expensive so called custom actions are somehow "better" (which I guess is something which cannot be demonstrated on paper) maybe you also "believe" in $2,000 speaker cables. I'm pretty sure there are more than a few BR fans lurking here on the Hide just as there are Hide members lurking on the BR sites. Any serious BR shooter will tell you precision BR shooting is a game of reducing variables to get smaller group sizes. Variables tend to stack and usually in the wrong direction for some reason to hear Murphy tell the tale. This is why many successful BR shooters are using custom actions that have been blueprinted and often modified to suite their needs and understanding of how a BR gun should work. Of course there are also a lot of successful BR guns that are simply blueprinted and modified various factory actions also. Within the various BR rules some classes are better suited to custom actions.
So are you claiming to be some sort of LE/military sniper or maybe a competitive tactical shooter or is it some sort of fantasy of yours? I think the majority of members here on the Hide are in neither of the previous groups. So with no disrespect intended I'll say this, as with most other hobbies for the most part these forums are populated primarily by hobbyists and fans/wannabes of the previous groups. In this population I'd guess most folks shoot their long arms at a range maybe 100-200 yards, 300 yards tops or so and occasionally go hunting. Most of the weapons are probably safe queens (not that there's anything wrong with it) kept clean and protected in nice clean cases and carried to and from the range in nice shiny SUVs and pickups. I'd guess that there are less than 5% of the Hide's member population dragging their weapons through the sand in active LE/military duty or even actively shooting in organized competitive tactical events more than 4 times a year. Maybe I'll do a poll on this after all I could be wrong.
Im saying you should check a custom action too we agree on that. But to check a custom action. with the right tools is alot easier and faster then checking and cutting a remington one. Should save money here
Im not claiming to be anything and most of my jobs have little to do with rifles. Worked in a mechanist shop and Mech engineer but I learned more about rifles and tools from my farther who was a 10 year Marine 30 year machinist. Ive done bench rest shooting and tactical shooting a little. But mostly im a long range hunter. My rifle have been beating more in Alaska and in Canada just hunting and packing in. I get a bigger kicks trying to do first round hits over 1000 yards then group shooting at 100. Ive learn alot from some of the nicest people in the shooting world Lawton/kirby allen. The latter is the one who i made my first 1430 yard shot with
For most of the people out there they cant even shoot a custom rifle to the fullest which is true. But i just dont want people wasting money on things like i did when i first got into shooting My custom rifles have a resale which is alot higher then my Remington both shoot the same and both cost close to the same to build some times
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BMG50CAL</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You can get a custom action for around 800
There been GB where people have bought a custom actions for around 680 dollars</div></div>
Sure and there have been good Remington actions sold here on the Hide and on GB for less than $300. I'm talking about what can normally be found in a short period of time without getting lucky and not the lowest price in history.
Im just saying that a custom can be had for around the same price after you factor in all the custom work to true it up
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BMG50CAL</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Custom actions are better for a couple different reasons other then just group size. but in the end both can shoot so close to the same it no longer matters.</div></div>
Well seeing that you agree with me that ultimately group size will be the same on a well finished action be it custom or factory what are these <span style="font-weight: bold">"better for a couple different reasons other than just group size"</span> undisclosed, mythical reasons?
The base metal is of better quality and when they hardened the metal it is normally done before the machining But with out picking one custom action to judge off cause they all have different high point and low points. custom are stiffer Ive hung 32 inch tube off customs with no flexing. cant say the same for remington. Ive crack the bolt handle off not happening on a custom the bolt arent cast.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BMG50CAL</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Now if you want to talk about the very best shooting action i still believe it a custom hands down. Look at the Benchrest shooters all the top places are shooting customs There a reason for that.
But we are not benchrest shooting here we care about mud dirt and being tired while shooting so if the custom might shoot a group a hair tighter it so small it no longer matters with the other factors.</div></div>
I don't doubt that you "believe" what you are posting and that you believe the best shooting actions are customs just as you and some others here believe there is no need to blueprint a custom action. But I'm afraid that faith does not make for consistent, repeatable weapons, measurement, measurement, more measurement, machining technique and logical machine processing and operation does. If you believe that any of the popular expensive so called custom actions are somehow "better" (which I guess is something which cannot be demonstrated on paper) maybe you also "believe" in $2,000 speaker cables. I'm pretty sure there are more than a few BR fans lurking here on the Hide just as there are Hide members lurking on the BR sites. Any serious BR shooter will tell you precision BR shooting is a game of reducing variables to get smaller group sizes. Variables tend to stack and usually in the wrong direction for some reason to hear Murphy tell the tale. This is why many successful BR shooters are using custom actions that have been blueprinted and often modified to suite their needs and understanding of how a BR gun should work. Of course there are also a lot of successful BR guns that are simply blueprinted and modified various factory actions also. Within the various BR rules some classes are better suited to custom actions.
So are you claiming to be some sort of LE/military sniper or maybe a competitive tactical shooter or is it some sort of fantasy of yours? I think the majority of members here on the Hide are in neither of the previous groups. So with no disrespect intended I'll say this, as with most other hobbies for the most part these forums are populated primarily by hobbyists and fans/wannabes of the previous groups. In this population I'd guess most folks shoot their long arms at a range maybe 100-200 yards, 300 yards tops or so and occasionally go hunting. Most of the weapons are probably safe queens (not that there's anything wrong with it) kept clean and protected in nice clean cases and carried to and from the range in nice shiny SUVs and pickups. I'd guess that there are less than 5% of the Hide's member population dragging their weapons through the sand in active LE/military duty or even actively shooting in organized competitive tactical events more than 4 times a year. Maybe I'll do a poll on this after all I could be wrong.
Im saying you should check a custom action too we agree on that. But to check a custom action. with the right tools is alot easier and faster then checking and cutting a remington one. Should save money here
Im not claiming to be anything and most of my jobs have little to do with rifles. Worked in a mechanist shop and Mech engineer but I learned more about rifles and tools from my farther who was a 10 year Marine 30 year machinist. Ive done bench rest shooting and tactical shooting a little. But mostly im a long range hunter. My rifle have been beating more in Alaska and in Canada just hunting and packing in. I get a bigger kicks trying to do first round hits over 1000 yards then group shooting at 100. Ive learn alot from some of the nicest people in the shooting world Lawton/kirby allen. The latter is the one who i made my first 1430 yard shot with
For most of the people out there they cant even shoot a custom rifle to the fullest which is true. But i just dont want people wasting money on things like i did when i first got into shooting My custom rifles have a resale which is alot higher then my Remington both shoot the same and both cost close to the same to build some times
Re: Best action to build from
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: marku</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A blueprinted custom action offers no shooting performance advantage when compared with a blueprinted factory action. Go ahead and ask them, here are their numbers: Tac Ops (310)275-8797, GA Precision (816)221-1844</div></div>
Ill agree there my blueprinted Remington action shoot just as well as my Lawton action. Of course my Lawton wasnt "blueprinted" either? So my custom action that wasnt blueprinted shoots just as good as M700 that are blueprinted? WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!
And before anybody call George and "bugs" him on this stupid question let it go. I also wouldnt throw someones phone numbers out there if they dony want to be dragged into this thread. If George wants to speak he'll do it on this thread. </div></div>
Not trying to say your lying just you have a very biased opinion on what your saying. Your not sticking to scientific facts just spouting off about your opinion and your aparently not a smith or machinist by any means per they way you state your opinion based on everyone else like george's. I bet you have done lots of research but who can you really trust. Most people in the shooting comunity have a weird approach to shooting and reloading learned to them by older people who believe in a non scientific approach to guns and the way they work. Im just saying your way off base. Thats it.
Even thought i do what i do i try my best to be non biased about my opinion on other custom makers guns and barrel. I will tell the truth based on what i have learned first hand.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: marku</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A blueprinted custom action offers no shooting performance advantage when compared with a blueprinted factory action. Go ahead and ask them, here are their numbers: Tac Ops (310)275-8797, GA Precision (816)221-1844</div></div>
Ill agree there my blueprinted Remington action shoot just as well as my Lawton action. Of course my Lawton wasnt "blueprinted" either? So my custom action that wasnt blueprinted shoots just as good as M700 that are blueprinted? WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!
And before anybody call George and "bugs" him on this stupid question let it go. I also wouldnt throw someones phone numbers out there if they dony want to be dragged into this thread. If George wants to speak he'll do it on this thread. </div></div>
Not trying to say your lying just you have a very biased opinion on what your saying. Your not sticking to scientific facts just spouting off about your opinion and your aparently not a smith or machinist by any means per they way you state your opinion based on everyone else like george's. I bet you have done lots of research but who can you really trust. Most people in the shooting comunity have a weird approach to shooting and reloading learned to them by older people who believe in a non scientific approach to guns and the way they work. Im just saying your way off base. Thats it.
Even thought i do what i do i try my best to be non biased about my opinion on other custom makers guns and barrel. I will tell the truth based on what i have learned first hand.
Re: Best action to build from
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: YAOG</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: marku</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Apparently the link is down YAOG. If you would have tried it a while back when I first posted it, it would have worked. That link was posted over a month ago. </div></div>
I clicked on the link shortly after you posted it and it was already down. I recently checked the link again and it was down and the host website is also seems to be gone now. I again checked your link today before replying to your old post and it is still down. Trust me if there is some magical bullet that a custom action offers in terms of what it can print on paper I'm all ears. But so far you have addressed nothing in reply to my assertions about custom actions with anything concrete or logically constructed. Even your own claims are incorrect or misunderstood by you about PAI/APA's machine work. That 0.0002" tolerance value you posted for your custom action is for barrel work. GEEZ if you are going to make claims for other people at least get your data right and use it in the right context.
</div></div>
Again your wrong thats not barrel work.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: YAOG</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: marku</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Apparently the link is down YAOG. If you would have tried it a while back when I first posted it, it would have worked. That link was posted over a month ago. </div></div>
I clicked on the link shortly after you posted it and it was already down. I recently checked the link again and it was down and the host website is also seems to be gone now. I again checked your link today before replying to your old post and it is still down. Trust me if there is some magical bullet that a custom action offers in terms of what it can print on paper I'm all ears. But so far you have addressed nothing in reply to my assertions about custom actions with anything concrete or logically constructed. Even your own claims are incorrect or misunderstood by you about PAI/APA's machine work. That 0.0002" tolerance value you posted for your custom action is for barrel work. GEEZ if you are going to make claims for other people at least get your data right and use it in the right context.
</div></div>
Again your wrong thats not barrel work.
Re: Best action to build from
Ok and basically im saying you have contributed nothing to this thread but pissing people off.
Ok and basically im saying you have contributed nothing to this thread but pissing people off.
Re: Best action to build from
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: StealthMode223</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Holy shit 2060 views and just over 80 posts to this thread that started out as a question about accurizing a Browning A-Bolt that I once had and was considering accurizing. I am glad to see that enough of the hide patrons are passionate enough about the sport to argue their points to the death. I also frequent lots of Archery sites and moderate one in particular. I often have to remind guys and gals that We " Sportsman", "Hunters", "Target Shooters" are a dieing breed. A lot of folks will cast stones at those who choose to use crossbows instead of compounds or tradional saying they are cheaters and no good to our sport or in this case the issues of customs vs. slave actions. Lets not forget that all of us here are ambassadors of our hobbies and passions. I only wanted to ask a question based on the equipment I had available at the time. I believe that healthy discussion among people like us will only grow awareness for our respective sports. Just my .02 </div></div>
Yes isn't getting people thinking about stuff great? The Hide is a very interesting place sometimes but many here are very narrow minded. When someone comes along and calls B.S. on statements like "custom actions are always better than factory actions" it hurts their feelings. The reasons are many but there is a lot of ego and pride involved as a lot of folks due to ignorance on their paid big bucks for what in the end is no more accurate or repeatable than a well built factory action and barrel. But I gotta say they do look cool and some guys just feel the need for a bigger unit and/or are just slaves to fashion for some reason. I prefer what is long proven and known to work.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: StealthMode223</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Holy shit 2060 views and just over 80 posts to this thread that started out as a question about accurizing a Browning A-Bolt that I once had and was considering accurizing. I am glad to see that enough of the hide patrons are passionate enough about the sport to argue their points to the death. I also frequent lots of Archery sites and moderate one in particular. I often have to remind guys and gals that We " Sportsman", "Hunters", "Target Shooters" are a dieing breed. A lot of folks will cast stones at those who choose to use crossbows instead of compounds or tradional saying they are cheaters and no good to our sport or in this case the issues of customs vs. slave actions. Lets not forget that all of us here are ambassadors of our hobbies and passions. I only wanted to ask a question based on the equipment I had available at the time. I believe that healthy discussion among people like us will only grow awareness for our respective sports. Just my .02 </div></div>
Yes isn't getting people thinking about stuff great? The Hide is a very interesting place sometimes but many here are very narrow minded. When someone comes along and calls B.S. on statements like "custom actions are always better than factory actions" it hurts their feelings. The reasons are many but there is a lot of ego and pride involved as a lot of folks due to ignorance on their paid big bucks for what in the end is no more accurate or repeatable than a well built factory action and barrel. But I gotta say they do look cool and some guys just feel the need for a bigger unit and/or are just slaves to fashion for some reason. I prefer what is long proven and known to work.
Re: Best action to build from
You know, I was going to write something really pointed about ego, opinionated individuals and so forth. But, I'll just quote the great, and sadly missed 'Nobody'
CONSIDER THE FUCKING SOURCE
'Stealth', I hope that you got the info you wanted before this thread took on a life of it's own and turned into a pissing contest between the late-comers, who CLEARLY didn't read your original post.
I hope that you enjoy your new rifle. Just shoot the piss out of it, then re-barrel when necessary and have any work done then.
Though I do think that a custom build on the a-bolt would be pretty cool. I'd do it, but that's just me. Contrary bastard to the last. Got to love that 60 degree bolt lift though!
And on that note, I bid you all Adieu!
N
You know, I was going to write something really pointed about ego, opinionated individuals and so forth. But, I'll just quote the great, and sadly missed 'Nobody'
CONSIDER THE FUCKING SOURCE
'Stealth', I hope that you got the info you wanted before this thread took on a life of it's own and turned into a pissing contest between the late-comers, who CLEARLY didn't read your original post.
I hope that you enjoy your new rifle. Just shoot the piss out of it, then re-barrel when necessary and have any work done then.
Though I do think that a custom build on the a-bolt would be pretty cool. I'd do it, but that's just me. Contrary bastard to the last. Got to love that 60 degree bolt lift though!
And on that note, I bid you all Adieu!
N
Re: Best action to build from
Yaog----Do you feel the same way about your photo equipment. I see you are a picture taker....Why buy the latest SLR when i can take photos as good as you with my disposable wal-mart camera....You talk of tolerances of tenths of a inch....You probably think a tenth is something you camp out in. Man get a life and go take some pictures leave the machine talk to people that understand it. See if you can change the bulb in your darkroom or something....I bet you dont even reload your own ammo???????
Yaog----Do you feel the same way about your photo equipment. I see you are a picture taker....Why buy the latest SLR when i can take photos as good as you with my disposable wal-mart camera....You talk of tolerances of tenths of a inch....You probably think a tenth is something you camp out in. Man get a life and go take some pictures leave the machine talk to people that understand it. See if you can change the bulb in your darkroom or something....I bet you dont even reload your own ammo???????
Re: Best action to build from
YAOG: Surgeon makes a custom action for $760. That's within the specs/price range for any remington 700 action.
Not all actions are $1300+
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Marriedman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yaog----Do you feel the same way about your photo equipment. I see you are a picture taker....Why buy the latest SLR when i can take photos as good as you with my disposable wal-mart camera....You talk of tolerances of tenths of a inch....You probably think a tenth is something you camp out in. Man get a life and go take some pictures leave the machine talk to people that understand it. See if you can change the bulb in your darkroom or something....I bet you dont even reload your own ammo??????? </div></div>
He probably never takes his dSLR off Auto mode.
YAOG: Surgeon makes a custom action for $760. That's within the specs/price range for any remington 700 action.
Not all actions are $1300+
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Marriedman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yaog----Do you feel the same way about your photo equipment. I see you are a picture taker....Why buy the latest SLR when i can take photos as good as you with my disposable wal-mart camera....You talk of tolerances of tenths of a inch....You probably think a tenth is something you camp out in. Man get a life and go take some pictures leave the machine talk to people that understand it. See if you can change the bulb in your darkroom or something....I bet you dont even reload your own ammo??????? </div></div>
He probably never takes his dSLR off Auto mode.
Re: Best action to build from
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Paduan Learner</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You know, I was going to write something really pointed about ego, opinionated individuals and so forth. But, I'll just quote the great, and sadly missed 'Nobody'
CONSIDER THE FUCKING SOURCE
'Stealth', I hope that you got the info you wanted before this thread took on a life of it's own and turned into a pissing contest between the late-comers, who CLEARLY didn't read your original post.
I hope that you enjoy your new rifle. Just shoot the piss out of it, then re-barrel when necessary and have any work done then.
Though I do think that a custom build on the a-bolt would be pretty cool. I'd do it, but that's just me. Contrary bastard to the last. Got to love that 60 degree bolt lift though!
And on that note, I bid you all Adieu!
N </div></div>
You know I did get some good information. The A-Bolt was a great deer rifle and that was going to be about it. It would have made a great custom rifle I just didn't have the assests to liquidate to put up the cash to send it off and all. So I heeded the advice of the ones here who have the wisdom and I got the Remmy. It will serve its purpose and I may or may not do anything to it. Time will tell. I will post rifle pics and groups with it when its ready to go.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Paduan Learner</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You know, I was going to write something really pointed about ego, opinionated individuals and so forth. But, I'll just quote the great, and sadly missed 'Nobody'
CONSIDER THE FUCKING SOURCE
'Stealth', I hope that you got the info you wanted before this thread took on a life of it's own and turned into a pissing contest between the late-comers, who CLEARLY didn't read your original post.
I hope that you enjoy your new rifle. Just shoot the piss out of it, then re-barrel when necessary and have any work done then.
Though I do think that a custom build on the a-bolt would be pretty cool. I'd do it, but that's just me. Contrary bastard to the last. Got to love that 60 degree bolt lift though!
And on that note, I bid you all Adieu!
N </div></div>
You know I did get some good information. The A-Bolt was a great deer rifle and that was going to be about it. It would have made a great custom rifle I just didn't have the assests to liquidate to put up the cash to send it off and all. So I heeded the advice of the ones here who have the wisdom and I got the Remmy. It will serve its purpose and I may or may not do anything to it. Time will tell. I will post rifle pics and groups with it when its ready to go.
Re: Best action to build from
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NotAGuru</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And nobody has menchaned a mauser??? </div></div>
I'm trying to figure out what "menchaned a mauser" means so I thought I'd ask.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NotAGuru</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And nobody has menchaned a mauser??? </div></div>
I'm trying to figure out what "menchaned a mauser" means so I thought I'd ask.
Re: Best action to build from
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NotAGuru</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <<SNIPPED DUE TO NONSENSE>>
Forgot to say we measure each and every action that is sent out. If you find one that is more than .0006 out then we screwed up and need to know. </div></div>
So you mean to say that you hold lower (this means worse) tolerances than PAI/AP and TacOps? Well that's good to know. What's your company called again?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NotAGuru</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <<SNIPPED DUE TO NONSENSE>>
Forgot to say we measure each and every action that is sent out. If you find one that is more than .0006 out then we screwed up and need to know. </div></div>
So you mean to say that you hold lower (this means worse) tolerances than PAI/AP and TacOps? Well that's good to know. What's your company called again?
Re: Best action to build from
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: YAOG</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NotAGuru</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <<SNIPPED DUE TO NONSENSE>>
Forgot to say we measure each and every action that is sent out. If you find one that is more than .0006 out then we screwed up and need to know. </div></div>
So you mean to say that you hold lower (this means worse) tolerances than PAI/AP and TacOps? Well that's good to know. What's your company called again?
</div></div>
YAOG it sounds like you're a bitch just wanting to bitch, you should just go away and end the fighting. Feel free to come back another day after you shower and get the sand out of your snatch.
Man what a bunch of cry baby crap, just keep rubbing against the grain, and you are how old?
DON'T FORGET TO SHOWER! ! ! !
May GOD bless,
Mac's
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: YAOG</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NotAGuru</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <<SNIPPED DUE TO NONSENSE>>
Forgot to say we measure each and every action that is sent out. If you find one that is more than .0006 out then we screwed up and need to know. </div></div>
So you mean to say that you hold lower (this means worse) tolerances than PAI/AP and TacOps? Well that's good to know. What's your company called again?
</div></div>
YAOG it sounds like you're a bitch just wanting to bitch, you should just go away and end the fighting. Feel free to come back another day after you shower and get the sand out of your snatch.
Man what a bunch of cry baby crap, just keep rubbing against the grain, and you are how old?
DON'T FORGET TO SHOWER! ! ! !
May GOD bless,
Mac's
Re: Best action to build from
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: YAOG</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NotAGuru</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And nobody has menchaned a mauser??? </div></div>
I'm trying to figure out what "menchaned a mauser" means so I thought I'd ask.
</div></div>
Read as "Has no one yet mentioned that a Mauser action might be a good basis for a custom build?"
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: YAOG</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NotAGuru</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And nobody has menchaned a mauser??? </div></div>
I'm trying to figure out what "menchaned a mauser" means so I thought I'd ask.
</div></div>
Read as "Has no one yet mentioned that a Mauser action might be a good basis for a custom build?"
Re: Best action to build from
Good news!
I have Remmy's myself, and think that you cannot go wrong with the basic action. Some of them shoot fantastically well right out of the box. My 7mm-08 does, my .243 has had some work done to it, and again, it is very, very accurate. If you feel you need to do work on it later, you've got a great base to start up from.
Glad it worked out for you.
Yeah, post pics, we all like to ogle the other fellas idea of perfection!
Neil
Good news!
I have Remmy's myself, and think that you cannot go wrong with the basic action. Some of them shoot fantastically well right out of the box. My 7mm-08 does, my .243 has had some work done to it, and again, it is very, very accurate. If you feel you need to do work on it later, you've got a great base to start up from.
Glad it worked out for you.
Yeah, post pics, we all like to ogle the other fellas idea of perfection!
Neil
Re: Best action to build from
Sorry this is in regards to the Browning Abolt action.
Here is a drop in the bucket as I am in now way a voice of knowledge. This is not my rifle and I repeat this is NOT MY RIFLE. If if belongs to any of you guys Nice piece and please chime in. I came across this on longrangehunting a few months ago and thought I would bookmark it as it was something I was interested in doing. I think Kirby Allen built it and is 300 wm. The original poster said it was a shooter and posted some awesome groups.
With that said, it obviously can be done. The question is should it. The only one that can answer that is you.
Sorry this is in regards to the Browning Abolt action.
Here is a drop in the bucket as I am in now way a voice of knowledge. This is not my rifle and I repeat this is NOT MY RIFLE. If if belongs to any of you guys Nice piece and please chime in. I came across this on longrangehunting a few months ago and thought I would bookmark it as it was something I was interested in doing. I think Kirby Allen built it and is 300 wm. The original poster said it was a shooter and posted some awesome groups.
With that said, it obviously can be done. The question is should it. The only one that can answer that is you.
