I was wondering your opinions on who makes the best barrels for a 22lr build.
And preferred length.
The action will be a 40X.
And preferred length.
The action will be a 40X.
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Best barrel maker for 22lr
- Thread starter ltfirehunter
- Start date
Re: Best barrel maker for 22lr
If I were building a precision rimfire on a 40X, I would go to Lilja and find a contour I like here: http://www.riflebarrels.com/products/rimfire_tapers.pdf then get a good plumber to screw it all together.
If I am not mistaken, Lilja turns the contours before rifling so the bore is extremely uniform - which is very important for lead bullet (i.e., rimfire) accuracy.
After Lilja, I would look at any of the cut-rifled barrel makers.
If I were building a precision rimfire on a 40X, I would go to Lilja and find a contour I like here: http://www.riflebarrels.com/products/rimfire_tapers.pdf then get a good plumber to screw it all together.
If I am not mistaken, Lilja turns the contours before rifling so the bore is extremely uniform - which is very important for lead bullet (i.e., rimfire) accuracy.
After Lilja, I would look at any of the cut-rifled barrel makers.
Re: Best barrel maker for 22lr
Eric Johnson, if he were still alive. I would suggest you go to 6mmBR.com and look up interview with Kreiger at Shot Show. According to him button rifled barrels must be pulled through a true cylinder. All contouring and fluting must be done after rifling. He uses cut rifling because all contouring and fluting are completed before rifling. I must admit I was not aware of this. However I have had Hart Barrels which were excellent. I would talk to some of the barrel makers and get there opinion on SS and CM. There is no wear issue or hot gasses to contend with. The older barrel makers used rather soft steel and many of those barrels were extremely accurate and are still in use today giving excellent results. With modern computer aided machinery any barrel maker should be able to turn out an excellent barrel. Talk to the barrel makers, most are more than willing to take time to explain there process and why they think they are the best.
Eric Johnson, if he were still alive. I would suggest you go to 6mmBR.com and look up interview with Kreiger at Shot Show. According to him button rifled barrels must be pulled through a true cylinder. All contouring and fluting must be done after rifling. He uses cut rifling because all contouring and fluting are completed before rifling. I must admit I was not aware of this. However I have had Hart Barrels which were excellent. I would talk to some of the barrel makers and get there opinion on SS and CM. There is no wear issue or hot gasses to contend with. The older barrel makers used rather soft steel and many of those barrels were extremely accurate and are still in use today giving excellent results. With modern computer aided machinery any barrel maker should be able to turn out an excellent barrel. Talk to the barrel makers, most are more than willing to take time to explain there process and why they think they are the best.
Re: Best barrel maker for 22lr
Kreiger was in the thought process for sure.
My service match AR barrel is a Kreiger.
Kreiger was in the thought process for sure.
My service match AR barrel is a Kreiger.
Re: Best barrel maker for 22lr
The rimfire benchrest people seem to like Shilen these days, but Shilen, Lilja, and Benchmark are all good. Mine is a Krieger, which is very good as well (and is also on a 40x).
Truth be told, you can't really go wrong with any of these, the key is in the reaming of the chamber... so get a good smith who knows how to work with rimfires. They are different than centerfires in a lot of ways.
The rimfire benchrest people seem to like Shilen these days, but Shilen, Lilja, and Benchmark are all good. Mine is a Krieger, which is very good as well (and is also on a 40x).
Truth be told, you can't really go wrong with any of these, the key is in the reaming of the chamber... so get a good smith who knows how to work with rimfires. They are different than centerfires in a lot of ways.
Re: Best barrel maker for 22lr
I will probably use APA, I think they are as straight up as they come.
I will probably use APA, I think they are as straight up as they come.
Re: Best barrel maker for 22lr
My new 40x (recently acquired here) has a Shilen - contour is...well, it looks like a heavy warclub. Shoots great and I don't have to worry if the outside gets knicked up because there's a few fathoms of steel until you actually get down to the bore.
My new 40x (recently acquired here) has a Shilen - contour is...well, it looks like a heavy warclub. Shoots great and I don't have to worry if the outside gets knicked up because there's a few fathoms of steel until you actually get down to the bore.
Re: Best barrel maker for 22lr
For a great deal of info about rimfire stuff go to www.benchrest.com and look in the rimfire section the best hang out there lots of great info.
For a great deal of info about rimfire stuff go to www.benchrest.com and look in the rimfire section the best hang out there lots of great info.
Re: Best barrel maker for 22lr
And anything over 17 or so inches in a match 22lr slows the bullet down. Long barrels are for position rifles for longer sight radii.
When you get your blank, have the tube screwer "feel" the bore and see if there are any tight areas-that would be a great place to cut and crown.
And anything over 17 or so inches in a match 22lr slows the bullet down. Long barrels are for position rifles for longer sight radii.
When you get your blank, have the tube screwer "feel" the bore and see if there are any tight areas-that would be a great place to cut and crown.
Re: Best barrel maker for 22lr
The highest quality rimfire barrels I have owned were manufactured by Lilja and Hart. If I was building on a 40X platform today, I would buy a Lilja. My preferred length would be in the 18-22 inch range. Anything longer is really a waste on a rimfire unless you are using iron sights and need the sight radius.
The highest quality rimfire barrels I have owned were manufactured by Lilja and Hart. If I was building on a 40X platform today, I would buy a Lilja. My preferred length would be in the 18-22 inch range. Anything longer is really a waste on a rimfire unless you are using iron sights and need the sight radius.
Re: Best barrel maker for 22lr
Well it seems Lilja is the most repeated so far.
Benchmark, is the only plumber noted so far.
Any other smiths for the double deuce?
Well it seems Lilja is the most repeated so far.
Benchmark, is the only plumber noted so far.
Any other smiths for the double deuce?
Re: Best barrel maker for 22lr
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And anything over 17 or so inches in a match 22lr slows the bullet down. Long barrels are for position rifles for longer sight radii.
.. </div></div>
Interesting, I didn't know that.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And anything over 17 or so inches in a match 22lr slows the bullet down. Long barrels are for position rifles for longer sight radii.
.. </div></div>
Interesting, I didn't know that.
Re: Best barrel maker for 22lr
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And anything over 17 or so inches in a match 22lr slows the bullet down. Long barrels are for position rifles for longer sight radii.
</div></div>
This is an old wives tale. Generally speaking longer barrels (up to a point of course) produce higher velocity just as in centerfire rifles. Recent .22LR testing using modern .22LR ammo and chronographs shows that longer barrels up to 26"-27" or so (longest tested) produce higher velocity and also seem to dampen or minimize velocity variation spreads even within the same lot of .22LR ammo.
HTH!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And anything over 17 or so inches in a match 22lr slows the bullet down. Long barrels are for position rifles for longer sight radii.
</div></div>
This is an old wives tale. Generally speaking longer barrels (up to a point of course) produce higher velocity just as in centerfire rifles. Recent .22LR testing using modern .22LR ammo and chronographs shows that longer barrels up to 26"-27" or so (longest tested) produce higher velocity and also seem to dampen or minimize velocity variation spreads even within the same lot of .22LR ammo.
HTH!
Re: Best barrel maker for 22lr
That well may be true of High Velocity ammo. Match 22 ammo is closer to standard velocity and will be slowed down in anything over 14/16 inches of barrel travel. There are several well conducted test posted over on Benchrestcentral.com that showed that cutting back 24 inch barrels in 1/2 inch sections increased speeds up to 14 to 16 inchs in length. At that point and depending on the barrel used the ammo began to slow down again because of lose of compression. Also the same test showed that most barrels shot better when thay are 18 to 21 inches long. So it appears that the highest speeds avaible had no dirrect link to accuracy. It has also been shown that crowning a barrel at the tightest spot in the bore will have some effect on accuracy, usely for the better. A good 22 gun smith will know these things and be able to help you set up your rifle for the conditions, type of ammo and style of shooting you have in mind. Donald
That well may be true of High Velocity ammo. Match 22 ammo is closer to standard velocity and will be slowed down in anything over 14/16 inches of barrel travel. There are several well conducted test posted over on Benchrestcentral.com that showed that cutting back 24 inch barrels in 1/2 inch sections increased speeds up to 14 to 16 inchs in length. At that point and depending on the barrel used the ammo began to slow down again because of lose of compression. Also the same test showed that most barrels shot better when thay are 18 to 21 inches long. So it appears that the highest speeds avaible had no dirrect link to accuracy. It has also been shown that crowning a barrel at the tightest spot in the bore will have some effect on accuracy, usely for the better. A good 22 gun smith will know these things and be able to help you set up your rifle for the conditions, type of ammo and style of shooting you have in mind. Donald
Re: Best barrel maker for 22lr
Don,
The tests posted were using standard and high vel .22LR ammo of many different brands and variations of ammo. These test results were also backed up by other people doing similar testing in different bolt guns using different ammunition. Can you post a link to the BRC .22LR tests?
Cheers/Chip
Don,
The tests posted were using standard and high vel .22LR ammo of many different brands and variations of ammo. These test results were also backed up by other people doing similar testing in different bolt guns using different ammunition. Can you post a link to the BRC .22LR tests?
Cheers/Chip
Re: Best barrel maker for 22lr
Here's one test published in Guns and Ammo. The test was done by Bob Milek. The gain of speed was all the way down to 10" in his test and then reversed and showed losses below that. The test on BRC was years ago and may not be there now.
In the VOL. 9, NO. 4 issue of GUNS & AMMO magazine, Bob Milek wrote an article titled: BARREL LENGTH VS VELOCITY, where he took a number of barrels and guns and cut down the barrels in one inch increments, measuring the velocity loss at each step of the process for a number of centerfires as well as the 22LRs. It's a very interesting article. Here are the velocities recorded for the 22LR starting at 14 inches and going down to 4 inches.
14" = 1,105 fps.
13" = 1,106
12" = 1,110
11" = 1,089
10" = 1,114
..9" = 1,077
..8" = 1,063
..7" = 1,057
..6" = 1,024
..5" = ..959
..4" = ..927 fps.
shed in
Here's one test published in Guns and Ammo. The test was done by Bob Milek. The gain of speed was all the way down to 10" in his test and then reversed and showed losses below that. The test on BRC was years ago and may not be there now.
In the VOL. 9, NO. 4 issue of GUNS & AMMO magazine, Bob Milek wrote an article titled: BARREL LENGTH VS VELOCITY, where he took a number of barrels and guns and cut down the barrels in one inch increments, measuring the velocity loss at each step of the process for a number of centerfires as well as the 22LRs. It's a very interesting article. Here are the velocities recorded for the 22LR starting at 14 inches and going down to 4 inches.
14" = 1,105 fps.
13" = 1,106
12" = 1,110
11" = 1,089
10" = 1,114
..9" = 1,077
..8" = 1,063
..7" = 1,057
..6" = 1,024
..5" = ..959
..4" = ..927 fps.
shed in
Re: Best barrel maker for 22lr
This is over at BRC but not the test that I'm looking for.
The following information is from Mark White's book "The Ultimate Ruger 10/22 Manual and User's Guide" . Apparently, he cut a 28 inch barrel two inches at a time and measured for muzzle velocity.
Ruger 77/22; Remington Standard Velocity .22 LR ammunition
Barrel Length/ Velocity
28 1095
26 1107
24 1119
22 1129
20 1138
18 1149
16 1157
14 1149
So, based on this, it would seem maximum velocity in a .22 is acheived at 16" with a loss of about 5 fps/inch over the next 12 inches.
This is over at BRC but not the test that I'm looking for.
The following information is from Mark White's book "The Ultimate Ruger 10/22 Manual and User's Guide" . Apparently, he cut a 28 inch barrel two inches at a time and measured for muzzle velocity.
Ruger 77/22; Remington Standard Velocity .22 LR ammunition
Barrel Length/ Velocity
28 1095
26 1107
24 1119
22 1129
20 1138
18 1149
16 1157
14 1149
So, based on this, it would seem maximum velocity in a .22 is acheived at 16" with a loss of about 5 fps/inch over the next 12 inches.
Re: Best barrel maker for 22lr
I have a Rem 541T and the original length was either 24 or 26 in. . I bought this rifle to squirrel hunt with and the barrel was really long for it.
Prior to cutting the barrel I done some shooting for accuracy and it shot well.
After I cut the barrel to 20 inches it was much more accurate than it was with all types of ammo.
So is shorter better?
I have a Rem 541T and the original length was either 24 or 26 in. . I bought this rifle to squirrel hunt with and the barrel was really long for it.
Prior to cutting the barrel I done some shooting for accuracy and it shot well.
After I cut the barrel to 20 inches it was much more accurate than it was with all types of ammo.
So is shorter better?
Re: Best barrel maker for 22lr
The test I'm looking for was done by Bullberry Barrels. Another was done by Percision Shooting magazine though I do not know if it is posted on BRC. I'm on my second computer since these were on the net and don't have a link to them. They are much more detailed and better data than the ones above. Donald
The test I'm looking for was done by Bullberry Barrels. Another was done by Percision Shooting magazine though I do not know if it is posted on BRC. I'm on my second computer since these were on the net and don't have a link to them. They are much more detailed and better data than the ones above. Donald
Re: Best barrel maker for 22lr
ltfirehunter could be a better spot in the barrel, better harmonics, or just a better crown. The test I sighted above showed that 18 to 21 inch barrels shoot better but at the time there were several ideas why. Donall
ltfirehunter could be a better spot in the barrel, better harmonics, or just a better crown. The test I sighted above showed that 18 to 21 inch barrels shoot better but at the time there were several ideas why. Donall
Re: Best barrel maker for 22lr
Don
I believe that it makng it shorter really helped in the harmonics and stiiffened it up some for sure.
And the crown was changed to a recessed target.
Don
I believe that it makng it shorter really helped in the harmonics and stiiffened it up some for sure.
And the crown was changed to a recessed target.
Re: Best barrel maker for 22lr
I would guess your correct on both counts. Barrel whip on a 22 can be over come by a tuner but a poor crown is just a killer for accuracy.
Back to the other topic. This is a test by Bullberry barrels on 17HMr barrel lengths. Now I know its a Apple and Orange thing but it's larger capacity case pushing a lighter bullet so it should go faster the farther it travels down the barrel. BB's found that a 17HMR started to slow down after 19". It's not the 22 test I was looking for but basicly the same test that was done of 22lr with a very simular result. Rimfires just don't have the ass to keep a bullet speed up in a long barrel. You may have to paste the link to the test. Donald
http://www.bullberry.com/HMRdata.html
YAOG I'm waiting to SEE your test Data?
I would guess your correct on both counts. Barrel whip on a 22 can be over come by a tuner but a poor crown is just a killer for accuracy.
Back to the other topic. This is a test by Bullberry barrels on 17HMr barrel lengths. Now I know its a Apple and Orange thing but it's larger capacity case pushing a lighter bullet so it should go faster the farther it travels down the barrel. BB's found that a 17HMR started to slow down after 19". It's not the 22 test I was looking for but basicly the same test that was done of 22lr with a very simular result. Rimfires just don't have the ass to keep a bullet speed up in a long barrel. You may have to paste the link to the test. Donald
http://www.bullberry.com/HMRdata.html
YAOG I'm waiting to SEE your test Data?
Re: Best barrel maker for 22lr
I think lilja is about the best going right now, thats what im using on my next build. I have used Hart in the past with great results, but on the rimfire/benchrest sites Lilja is becoming the king. As far as a good 22 smith try Brian Voelker, he has turned out some unreal rimfires for accuracy, quality, fit and finish etc.
Brian Voelker
2878 170th Ave.
Ryan, IA 52330
563-932-2570
I think lilja is about the best going right now, thats what im using on my next build. I have used Hart in the past with great results, but on the rimfire/benchrest sites Lilja is becoming the king. As far as a good 22 smith try Brian Voelker, he has turned out some unreal rimfires for accuracy, quality, fit and finish etc.
Brian Voelker
2878 170th Ave.
Ryan, IA 52330
563-932-2570
THERE IS NO BEST THERE ALL A CRAP SHOOT. THE BEST BARRELS ARE SAVED FOR THE TOP SHOOTERS YOU GET THE LEFTOVERS. YOU CAN GET A GOOD BL IF YOUR LUCKY. WHAT YOU THINK IS GOOD AND WHAT WINS ARE TWO DIFFERNT THINGS
Big Ted in the house with his first post.... woot woot
In no order:
Shilen
Krieger
Schneider
Broughton
I currently don't know any prone / F-SBR competitor that uses Lilja. Most stopped years ago when the steel was softened and longevity fell to under 20k rounds.
I have excellent results with the Krieger currently on my Anschutz. Best barrel I ever had was from Schneider.
Shilen
Krieger
Schneider
Broughton
I currently don't know any prone / F-SBR competitor that uses Lilja. Most stopped years ago when the steel was softened and longevity fell to under 20k rounds.
I have excellent results with the Krieger currently on my Anschutz. Best barrel I ever had was from Schneider.
Feddersen makes incredible barrels he’s a genius at this game. If you’re not happy with his products he stand behind them 100%. His barrels out shoot the Lilj, Kidd, etc. (10/22’s). I did sell my Vudoo btw. His 10/22 shot just as well and wasn’t as ammo picky.
I had the standard 6 groove and it was -so far- the best barrel I ever had on my Anschutz. (10 national level titles in 3-position). This barrel also lasted forever and dropped off after 200k rounds.
The 1:17 Krieger on the action right now is excellent also and I am very pleased with its performance.
Best Regards
Ken
Mullerworks barrels are certainly good barrels, but obtaining one is almost impossible.
I bet if one was to research the BR shooters the answer would be shilen, however Brux has entered the rimfire game and makes some of the finest barrels anyone could buy.. I have 3 brux center fire barrels and they are all performers.
