I what to get a gun for long range shooting (up to 600 yards) and was wondering what caliber would be best. I also want to hunt with the gun.
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Best Beginner Caliber.
- Thread starter Alex Gogola
- Start date
Re: Best Beginner Caliber.
for volume centerfire nothing is less expensive to load/shoot than .223, it will do fine for learning even with 55gr to 600, if it is legal for deer and the right bullets are used it will work, the real cost of shooting is the ammo not the rifle/optics etc by the time you run 4000 rds of 223 you will have saved enough on ammo over 308 (the next best deal) to get another decent rifle/scope set up
that being said the 22 is the most cost effective way to build skills
for volume centerfire nothing is less expensive to load/shoot than .223, it will do fine for learning even with 55gr to 600, if it is legal for deer and the right bullets are used it will work, the real cost of shooting is the ammo not the rifle/optics etc by the time you run 4000 rds of 223 you will have saved enough on ammo over 308 (the next best deal) to get another decent rifle/scope set up
that being said the 22 is the most cost effective way to build skills
Re: Best Beginner Caliber.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: George63</div><div class="ubbcode-body">for volume centerfire nothing is less expensive to load/shoot than .223, it will do fine for learning even with 55gr to 600, if it is legal for deer and the right bullets are used it will work, the real cost of shooting is the ammo not the rifle/optics etc by the time you run 4000 rds of 223 you will have saved enough on ammo over 308 (the next best deal) to get another decent rifle/scope set up
that being said the 22 is the most cost effective way to build skills</div></div> I Was thinking of something larger.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: George63</div><div class="ubbcode-body">for volume centerfire nothing is less expensive to load/shoot than .223, it will do fine for learning even with 55gr to 600, if it is legal for deer and the right bullets are used it will work, the real cost of shooting is the ammo not the rifle/optics etc by the time you run 4000 rds of 223 you will have saved enough on ammo over 308 (the next best deal) to get another decent rifle/scope set up
that being said the 22 is the most cost effective way to build skills</div></div> I Was thinking of something larger.
Re: Best Beginner Caliber.
You can use most commonly available bolt action rifles from 223 up to (?) and hit stuff at 600Y. What kind of hunting?
.243/6mm,.264/6.5mm,.284/7mm are some of the better choices.
You can use most commonly available bolt action rifles from 223 up to (?) and hit stuff at 600Y. What kind of hunting?
.243/6mm,.264/6.5mm,.284/7mm are some of the better choices.
Re: Best Beginner Caliber.
Are you going to reload? Do you care what the ammo costs? .223 ammo is about .80 a round 308 is about 1.00 a round for match ammo.
Are you going to reload? Do you care what the ammo costs? .223 ammo is about .80 a round 308 is about 1.00 a round for match ammo.
Re: Best Beginner Caliber.
The lightest .458 Win Mag that you can find and muzzle brakes are for noobs.
The lightest .458 Win Mag that you can find and muzzle brakes are for noobs.
Re: Best Beginner Caliber.
7 rem mag? Good bullet and brass selection. Should lay a smack down on elk.
.300 wm?
7 rem mag? Good bullet and brass selection. Should lay a smack down on elk.
.300 wm?
Re: Best Beginner Caliber.
6.5x55mm
Tikka T3 Sporter (20" barrel)
Tikka T3 Sporter (24" barrel)
Sako 85
6.5x55mm
Tikka T3 Sporter (20" barrel)
Tikka T3 Sporter (24" barrel)
Sako 85
Re: Best Beginner Caliber.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: glock24</div><div class="ubbcode-body">6.5x55mm
Tikka T3 Sporter (20" barrel)
Tikka T3 Sporter (24" barrel)
Sako 85 </div></div> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: glock24</div><div class="ubbcode-body">6.5x55mm
I second the vote for Sako 85. Custom performance at a price you can swallow.
Tikka T3 Sporter (20" barrel)
Tikka T3 Sporter (24" barrel)
Sako 85 </div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: glock24</div><div class="ubbcode-body">6.5x55mm
Tikka T3 Sporter (20" barrel)
Tikka T3 Sporter (24" barrel)
Sako 85 </div></div> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: glock24</div><div class="ubbcode-body">6.5x55mm
I second the vote for Sako 85. Custom performance at a price you can swallow.
Tikka T3 Sporter (20" barrel)
Tikka T3 Sporter (24" barrel)
Sako 85 </div></div>
Re: Best Beginner Caliber.
My good friend just got a nice Rem 700 and scope package deal mail order from Bud's chambered in .300 Win Mag for his wife (she's big enough to handle it well). Can't fault that caliber for taking game cleanly at longer ranges.
My good friend just got a nice Rem 700 and scope package deal mail order from Bud's chambered in .300 Win Mag for his wife (she's big enough to handle it well). Can't fault that caliber for taking game cleanly at longer ranges.
Re: Best Beginner Caliber.
Well... if you are an experienced shooter, all the above have pros and cons.
If you are getting started in precision shooting, there is only one choice and that is the .22LR.
Once you have mastered that, the world is your oyster.
If you are an experenced shooter, IMHO the .308. Mainly makes a lot of sense because of versatility of platforms and loads. There are a lot of options there and the cost is low compared to some of the more exotic loads.
I don't disagree with anything above (except perhaps the .458 suggestions...) But this is my $0.02.
Cheers,
Sirhr
Well... if you are an experienced shooter, all the above have pros and cons.
If you are getting started in precision shooting, there is only one choice and that is the .22LR.
Once you have mastered that, the world is your oyster.
If you are an experenced shooter, IMHO the .308. Mainly makes a lot of sense because of versatility of platforms and loads. There are a lot of options there and the cost is low compared to some of the more exotic loads.
I don't disagree with anything above (except perhaps the .458 suggestions...) But this is my $0.02.
Cheers,
Sirhr
Re: Best Beginner Caliber.
Stage #1: 0-50 yards = 22LR
Stage #2: 0-600 yards = 223/5.56mm
Stage #3: 0-1000 yards = .308/7.62x51
Stage #4: 0-1750 yards = .338 Norma/Lapua/Edge/Winchester/RUM
Save your dough as you train through stages. No need to be shooting match grade .308 if you'll get the same training value and save a lot of money shooting a 22LR.
Stage #1: 0-50 yards = 22LR
Stage #2: 0-600 yards = 223/5.56mm
Stage #3: 0-1000 yards = .308/7.62x51
Stage #4: 0-1750 yards = .338 Norma/Lapua/Edge/Winchester/RUM
Save your dough as you train through stages. No need to be shooting match grade .308 if you'll get the same training value and save a lot of money shooting a 22LR.
Re: Best Beginner Caliber.
6.5 Creedmoor is another great option. Better BC bullets and still a short action and cheap to relaod with plenty of reloading information with Hornady factory loads that you can mimick with reloads for what I believe to be the best load for the caliber. Also becoming more and more popular with factory offerings.
6.5 Creedmoor is another great option. Better BC bullets and still a short action and cheap to relaod with plenty of reloading information with Hornady factory loads that you can mimick with reloads for what I believe to be the best load for the caliber. Also becoming more and more popular with factory offerings.
Re: Best Beginner Caliber.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Snipedogg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">6.5 Creedmoor is another great option. Better BC bullets and still a short action and cheap to relaod with plenty of reloading information with Hornady factory loads that you can mimick with reloads for what I believe to be the best load for the caliber. Also becoming more and more popular with factory offerings. </div></div>
Yep, I love my creed!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Snipedogg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">6.5 Creedmoor is another great option. Better BC bullets and still a short action and cheap to relaod with plenty of reloading information with Hornady factory loads that you can mimick with reloads for what I believe to be the best load for the caliber. Also becoming more and more popular with factory offerings. </div></div>
Yep, I love my creed!
Re: Best Beginner Caliber.
The marketing forces in the magazines you read and most of the wannbee BS you see on most internet forums is directing you to buy a big magnum or at least a 308 (because the snipers use it).
For a guy like you this is pure garbage.
The 223 (with a barrel twist that allows you to shoot 75-80 grain bullets) kicks less, is more fun than you can imagine AND its cheap to shoot. Shoot 5000 rounds and you will be SO much better than the average bubba. Price out the differnce...Its shocking!
If you must hunt with the same rifle (I suggest you buy something else to hunt with) I would look at the 260.
I own long range rigs in 308, 300Win, 300Ultra, multiple fast 338's, and a 50BMG. More often than not those beasts stay in the safe and my 223 and a few 6.5s come out to shoot.
This is a great forum and I suggest you listen to (most) of what is said here.
Love this place!
Have fun dude!
Peace
The marketing forces in the magazines you read and most of the wannbee BS you see on most internet forums is directing you to buy a big magnum or at least a 308 (because the snipers use it).
For a guy like you this is pure garbage.
The 223 (with a barrel twist that allows you to shoot 75-80 grain bullets) kicks less, is more fun than you can imagine AND its cheap to shoot. Shoot 5000 rounds and you will be SO much better than the average bubba. Price out the differnce...Its shocking!
If you must hunt with the same rifle (I suggest you buy something else to hunt with) I would look at the 260.
I own long range rigs in 308, 300Win, 300Ultra, multiple fast 338's, and a 50BMG. More often than not those beasts stay in the safe and my 223 and a few 6.5s come out to shoot.
This is a great forum and I suggest you listen to (most) of what is said here.
Love this place!
Have fun dude!
Peace
Re: Best Beginner Caliber.
I'll vote .308.
Simple, widely available, and can grow with you a long ways. You don't even need to start out with match ammo. Ammo half the price of it will allow you to get twice the trigger time and get better. And there's plenty of decent cheap .308 available.
I'll vote .308.
Simple, widely available, and can grow with you a long ways. You don't even need to start out with match ammo. Ammo half the price of it will allow you to get twice the trigger time and get better. And there's plenty of decent cheap .308 available.
Re: Best Beginner Caliber.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Smiley72437</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I plan on hunting deer and elk. I do reload. </div></div>
I am going to have to agree with Glock24 and Tikka in 6.5x55.
Lapua 6.5x55 brass is top quality and quite a deal compared to their other offerings. 123-140 grain bullets have a high BC and can be driven fast while creating only moderate recoil. The barrel life will be good as well.
My friends box stock T3 in 6.5x55 keeps up with my $2500 custom rifle in 6x47L.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Smiley72437</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I plan on hunting deer and elk. I do reload. </div></div>
I am going to have to agree with Glock24 and Tikka in 6.5x55.
Lapua 6.5x55 brass is top quality and quite a deal compared to their other offerings. 123-140 grain bullets have a high BC and can be driven fast while creating only moderate recoil. The barrel life will be good as well.
My friends box stock T3 in 6.5x55 keeps up with my $2500 custom rifle in 6x47L.
Re: Best Beginner Caliber.
Out to 600 for learning the .223rem is really a good option. Since you have your hard set on hunting the 308, or 30-06 are good options that will not break the bank to shoot.
As you know Elk are tough. So you may just want to have to have two rifles. One to allow you to get lots of trigger time and the other for big game hunting.
Out to 600 for learning the .223rem is really a good option. Since you have your hard set on hunting the 308, or 30-06 are good options that will not break the bank to shoot.
As you know Elk are tough. So you may just want to have to have two rifles. One to allow you to get lots of trigger time and the other for big game hunting.
Re: Best Beginner Caliber.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Smiley72437</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: George63</div><div class="ubbcode-body">for volume centerfire nothing is less expensive to load/shoot than .223, it will do fine for learning even with 55gr to 600, if it is legal for deer and the right bullets are used it will work, the real cost of shooting is the ammo not the rifle/optics etc by the time you run 4000 rds of 223 you will have saved enough on ammo over 308 (the next best deal) to get another decent rifle/scope set up
that being said the 22 is the most cost effective way to build skills</div></div> I Was thinking of something larger. </div></div>
I have some time and several have said about the same as I did so I will put some numbers to my logic/advice for learning tactical/precision and hunting
basic rifle 223 or 308 500 $
suitable stock 220 $
starter base, rings, scope 500 $
total new 1220 $
complete similar setup
used 800-1000 $
basic hunting setup
sporter profile rifle+ scope
new 800 $
used 600 $
Now for the real cost:
minimal reloading set up, 2 chamberings 800 $
to load 223 I call the brass free since it is so easy to pick up for free or buy for cheap
per 1000 rds
55gr projectile LC or hornady 75 $
surplus powder (WC 844) 50 $
primer 35 $
total 160 $
308
prorated brass 30 $
147 gr privi projectile 180 $
4064 powder 105 $
primer 35 $
total 350 $
difference per 1000 rds 190 $
223 vs 308
so the additional cost of practicing with the most reasonable hunting chambering (308) over 223 for 4000 rds would be 760 $, enough to buy a good used hunting setup
or if the goal was to gain the skills needed to compete, the savings after 10,000 rds of 223 (1900 $) should buy at least the bare rifle in 308 to use in competition
and that well worn 223 would have some barrel life left and still be worth 300, but by that time you would probably never want to sell it
for all the folks recommending 6.5 creedmore, 7mm mag etc. lets see some realistic numbers for purchase, ammo costs, barrels etc to shoot 4000-10,000 rounds to back up your advice for "Best Beginner Caliber" (that should be best beginner chambering)
lots of the comparisons are for match ammo so here is for 10,000
308 Match
lapua brass (10-12 cycles each) --- 700 $
175 SMK----------------------2800 $
64 lbs VV powder---------------1600 $
match primer-------------------400 $
total--------------------------5500 $
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Smiley72437</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: George63</div><div class="ubbcode-body">for volume centerfire nothing is less expensive to load/shoot than .223, it will do fine for learning even with 55gr to 600, if it is legal for deer and the right bullets are used it will work, the real cost of shooting is the ammo not the rifle/optics etc by the time you run 4000 rds of 223 you will have saved enough on ammo over 308 (the next best deal) to get another decent rifle/scope set up
that being said the 22 is the most cost effective way to build skills</div></div> I Was thinking of something larger. </div></div>
I have some time and several have said about the same as I did so I will put some numbers to my logic/advice for learning tactical/precision and hunting
basic rifle 223 or 308 500 $
suitable stock 220 $
starter base, rings, scope 500 $
total new 1220 $
complete similar setup
used 800-1000 $
basic hunting setup
sporter profile rifle+ scope
new 800 $
used 600 $
Now for the real cost:
minimal reloading set up, 2 chamberings 800 $
to load 223 I call the brass free since it is so easy to pick up for free or buy for cheap
per 1000 rds
55gr projectile LC or hornady 75 $
surplus powder (WC 844) 50 $
primer 35 $
total 160 $
308
prorated brass 30 $
147 gr privi projectile 180 $
4064 powder 105 $
primer 35 $
total 350 $
difference per 1000 rds 190 $
223 vs 308
so the additional cost of practicing with the most reasonable hunting chambering (308) over 223 for 4000 rds would be 760 $, enough to buy a good used hunting setup
or if the goal was to gain the skills needed to compete, the savings after 10,000 rds of 223 (1900 $) should buy at least the bare rifle in 308 to use in competition
and that well worn 223 would have some barrel life left and still be worth 300, but by that time you would probably never want to sell it
for all the folks recommending 6.5 creedmore, 7mm mag etc. lets see some realistic numbers for purchase, ammo costs, barrels etc to shoot 4000-10,000 rounds to back up your advice for "Best Beginner Caliber" (that should be best beginner chambering)
lots of the comparisons are for match ammo so here is for 10,000
308 Match
lapua brass (10-12 cycles each) --- 700 $
175 SMK----------------------2800 $
64 lbs VV powder---------------1600 $
match primer-------------------400 $
total--------------------------5500 $
Re: Best Beginner Caliber.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: steve123</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Smiley72437</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I plan on hunting deer and elk. I do reload. </div></div>
I am going to have to agree with Glock24 and Tikka in 6.5x55.
Lapua 6.5x55 brass is top quality and quite a deal compared to their other offerings. 123-140 grain bullets have a high BC and can be driven fast while creating only moderate recoil. The barrel life will be good as well.
My friends box stock T3 in 6.5x55 keeps up with my $2500 custom rifle in 6x47L. </div></div>
can you give a rundown of cost to shoot 4000-10,000 rounds of 6.5 x 55
rifle, loading cost, rebarreling etc
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: steve123</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Smiley72437</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I plan on hunting deer and elk. I do reload. </div></div>
I am going to have to agree with Glock24 and Tikka in 6.5x55.
Lapua 6.5x55 brass is top quality and quite a deal compared to their other offerings. 123-140 grain bullets have a high BC and can be driven fast while creating only moderate recoil. The barrel life will be good as well.
My friends box stock T3 in 6.5x55 keeps up with my $2500 custom rifle in 6x47L. </div></div>
can you give a rundown of cost to shoot 4000-10,000 rounds of 6.5 x 55
rifle, loading cost, rebarreling etc
Re: Best Beginner Caliber.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Snipedogg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">6.5 Creedmoor is another great option. Better BC bullets and still a short action and cheap to relaod with plenty of reloading information with Hornady factory loads that you can mimick with reloads for what I believe to be the best load for the caliber. Also becoming more and more popular with factory offerings. </div></div>
can you give some numbers on total cost of reloads?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Snipedogg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">6.5 Creedmoor is another great option. Better BC bullets and still a short action and cheap to relaod with plenty of reloading information with Hornady factory loads that you can mimick with reloads for what I believe to be the best load for the caliber. Also becoming more and more popular with factory offerings. </div></div>
can you give some numbers on total cost of reloads?
Re: Best Beginner Caliber.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: george63</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
for all the folks recommending 6.5 creedmore, 7mm mag etc. lets see some realistic numbers for purchase, ammo costs, barrels etc to shoot 4000-10,000 rounds to back up your advice for "Best Beginner Caliber" (that should be best beginner chambering)
</div></div>
Aight I'll take a shot in the dark here with 7mm.
Rifle 1k
Scope 1k
Reloads are approx 2$ a shot for match ammo.(not necessarily required)
So for 10000 rds your looking at 20000$.
Let's just say the average barrel life is about 1500 rds. So over 10000 rds you will need about 6.66 barrels. At 500 a pop for a rebarrel that's 3k in barrels.
If I was doing much hunting I'd choose the 7mm but if I was just shooting I'd pick something alot cheaper!!! It really depends on how much one is going to shoot.
Ill say most fudd hunters shoot 2 or 3 boxes ranging their rifle when they first get their rifle and probably only shoot a box or 2 of ammo a year and never see a rebarrel.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: george63</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
for all the folks recommending 6.5 creedmore, 7mm mag etc. lets see some realistic numbers for purchase, ammo costs, barrels etc to shoot 4000-10,000 rounds to back up your advice for "Best Beginner Caliber" (that should be best beginner chambering)
</div></div>
Aight I'll take a shot in the dark here with 7mm.
Rifle 1k
Scope 1k
Reloads are approx 2$ a shot for match ammo.(not necessarily required)
So for 10000 rds your looking at 20000$.
Let's just say the average barrel life is about 1500 rds. So over 10000 rds you will need about 6.66 barrels. At 500 a pop for a rebarrel that's 3k in barrels.
If I was doing much hunting I'd choose the 7mm but if I was just shooting I'd pick something alot cheaper!!! It really depends on how much one is going to shoot.
Ill say most fudd hunters shoot 2 or 3 boxes ranging their rifle when they first get their rifle and probably only shoot a box or 2 of ammo a year and never see a rebarrel.
Re: Best Beginner Caliber.
Now for the creed.
Rifle 1k
Scope1k
Brass liife is about 4 reloads out of hornady brass. So for 10000 rds you can buy 2000 factory rounds for 2000$ reloading it 4 times using the brass equals 10000 rds.
So in 8000 rds you will need
8000 bullets equal 2100$
5x8lb jugs of varget 780$
8000 federal 210m primers 350$
So total cost of 10000 rds using 2000 factory rounds and using the leftover brass equals
5230$! So let's say barrel life is 3500 rds so 2 rebarrels at 500 equals 1k.
6k$ expendables for 10000 shots.
Now for the creed.
Rifle 1k
Scope1k
Brass liife is about 4 reloads out of hornady brass. So for 10000 rds you can buy 2000 factory rounds for 2000$ reloading it 4 times using the brass equals 10000 rds.
So in 8000 rds you will need
8000 bullets equal 2100$
5x8lb jugs of varget 780$
8000 federal 210m primers 350$
So total cost of 10000 rds using 2000 factory rounds and using the leftover brass equals
5230$! So let's say barrel life is 3500 rds so 2 rebarrels at 500 equals 1k.
6k$ expendables for 10000 shots.
Re: Best Beginner Caliber.
so far for the rifles, barrels needed and 10,000 rds we have
I will add a conservative accuracy estimate over the 10,000 rds
223 --------------------- Not match ------------------ 2400-----------------------------------------------------------1.5moa
7mm mag ----------------- Match ------------------ 24,000 hmmm how about the price of shoulder replacement surgery----??
6.5 creed (also 6.5 lapua ?) ---- Match --------------------7000-----------------------------------------------------------??
308 (1 barrel)---------------Not match ------------------5000-----------------------------------------------------------1.25moa
for 308 match, a rifle proportional to the ammo (2000), and 1 re-barrel
308----------------------Match----------------------8000-----------------------------------------------------------.75moa
so far for the rifles, barrels needed and 10,000 rds we have
I will add a conservative accuracy estimate over the 10,000 rds
223 --------------------- Not match ------------------ 2400-----------------------------------------------------------1.5moa
7mm mag ----------------- Match ------------------ 24,000 hmmm how about the price of shoulder replacement surgery----??
6.5 creed (also 6.5 lapua ?) ---- Match --------------------7000-----------------------------------------------------------??
308 (1 barrel)---------------Not match ------------------5000-----------------------------------------------------------1.25moa
for 308 match, a rifle proportional to the ammo (2000), and 1 re-barrel
308----------------------Match----------------------8000-----------------------------------------------------------.75moa
Re: Best Beginner Caliber.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: George63</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: steve123</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Smiley72437</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I plan on hunting deer and elk. I do reload. </div></div>
I am going to have to agree with Glock24 and Tikka in 6.5x55.
Lapua 6.5x55 brass is top quality and quite a deal compared to their other offerings. 123-140 grain bullets have a high BC and can be driven fast while creating only moderate recoil. The barrel life will be good as well.
My friends box stock T3 in 6.5x55 keeps up with my $2500 custom rifle in 6x47L. </div></div>
can you give a rundown of cost to shoot 4000-10,000 rounds of 6.5 x 55
rifle, loading cost, rebarreling etc </div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: George63</div><div class="ubbcode-body">for volume centerfire nothing is less expensive to load/shoot than .223, it will do fine for learning even with 55gr to 600, if it is legal for deer and the right bullets are used it will work, the real cost of shooting is the ammo not the rifle/optics etc by the time you run 4000 rds of 223 you will have saved enough on ammo over 308 (the next best deal) to get another decent rifle/scope setup. </div></div>
I didn't recall the OP wanting a cost comparison. You seem to be coming from a priority of cheapest cost perspective combined with the perspective that volume of fire in practice is more essential than quality of practice for a beginner??? Maybe I'm misunderstanding you? I look at the subject quite differently.
I'm all for saving money but not at the cost of being unhappy over the long term with a rifle,scope,cartridge combo. The term by once cry once comes to mind. Within ones financial limits of course. I'm sure there would be at least a couple grand extra burning a hole in my pocket had I not tried to avert the saying. Not having to buy and sell guns in a cartridge you might not be happy with in a few month,years saves money.
I should bring up a few points about "overall cost" by the numbers vs "value per dollar" and "end result satisfaction". Along with different scenarios, comparisons and perspectives so you know why I made the suggestion I did.
Also staying within the context of the OP's desire to shoot long range and hunt big game with a reasonable energy level at distance.
Well right off the bat 223 is out of the running. Can you hunt and kill big game with 223? Yes. Is it advisable especially considering there are a multitude of better choices? NO...I also believe in practicing with the same gun you compete or hunt with. After a while you develop a sense of where to aim in different wind conditions. Shooting different cartridges and guns dulls the intuition some. So why practice with 223 if you are primarily hunting/competing with,for instance 6.5x55?
I noticed you mention in your post previously you were comparing the cost for 308 and 223 brass military brass acquired for nearly free. My first example would be comparing mixed lot, military, assorted headstamp 308 brass with new Lapua 6.5x55 brass of the same lot number. Not really a apples to apples comparison. Of course from a purely financial bias the 308 brass wins. From a accuracy, consistency and brass life perspective the Lapua 6.5x55 brass is hands down the best value. If you want to compare new Lapua 308 brass and new Lapua 6.5x55 then it's apples to apples as they are the same price and quality.
My next point would be ballistics.
Lets take a common modern load for 6.5x55 with 140's to compare to a common 308 load with 168's.
6.5x55
Litz G7 BC and the standard environmental on the JBM site.
Velocity of 2850fps.
Drop at 600Y is 73.2", drift for a 10mph wind is 17.6",energy left is 1405 ftlbs.
308
Litz G7 BC and the standard environmental on the JBM site.
Velocity of 2600fps.
Drop at 600Y is 97.1, drift for a 10mph wind is 26.3 and energy left is 1156 ftlbs.
Maybe it's just me but If I were a novice shooter attempting to make my first long range kill on a deer with any kind of wind involved I'd sure rather a have a 6.5x55 in this scenario ???
Or how about using a 308 at a long range event that allows other cartridges? Rarely is it that someone shooting a 308 wins the event. To me there's lots of value in better ballistics over actual dollar amount.
Concerning practice. Which type of practice brings the better result with the end result being the ability make a first round hit? Practice by going out and shooting larger quantities of ammo or quality practice by attempting to make 1st round hits on a target whether alive or not at distance? Or how productive will a practice session be?
It's just my opinion but I'll use my practice sessions as a example. I used to go out and shoot 100-200 rounds at time about 3 times a month. I learned some things practicing that way but not as much I've learned since I changed my practice regimen. I've been going out 2-3 times a week for a short period of time using 15-20 rounds and practice at one or two distances,positions or shooting scenarios. I found this to be far superior "and cheaper" to blowing off a bunch of ammo at one time and I've also become a much more versatile rifleman in the process having had my share of wins this year. So here again. There's value in efficient practice.
So here we are. Is a 223 or 308 cheaper to shoot? Yes. Is it necessarily the best value? Everyone has got to decide that for themselves.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: George63</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: steve123</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Smiley72437</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I plan on hunting deer and elk. I do reload. </div></div>
I am going to have to agree with Glock24 and Tikka in 6.5x55.
Lapua 6.5x55 brass is top quality and quite a deal compared to their other offerings. 123-140 grain bullets have a high BC and can be driven fast while creating only moderate recoil. The barrel life will be good as well.
My friends box stock T3 in 6.5x55 keeps up with my $2500 custom rifle in 6x47L. </div></div>
can you give a rundown of cost to shoot 4000-10,000 rounds of 6.5 x 55
rifle, loading cost, rebarreling etc </div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: George63</div><div class="ubbcode-body">for volume centerfire nothing is less expensive to load/shoot than .223, it will do fine for learning even with 55gr to 600, if it is legal for deer and the right bullets are used it will work, the real cost of shooting is the ammo not the rifle/optics etc by the time you run 4000 rds of 223 you will have saved enough on ammo over 308 (the next best deal) to get another decent rifle/scope setup. </div></div>
I didn't recall the OP wanting a cost comparison. You seem to be coming from a priority of cheapest cost perspective combined with the perspective that volume of fire in practice is more essential than quality of practice for a beginner??? Maybe I'm misunderstanding you? I look at the subject quite differently.
I'm all for saving money but not at the cost of being unhappy over the long term with a rifle,scope,cartridge combo. The term by once cry once comes to mind. Within ones financial limits of course. I'm sure there would be at least a couple grand extra burning a hole in my pocket had I not tried to avert the saying. Not having to buy and sell guns in a cartridge you might not be happy with in a few month,years saves money.
I should bring up a few points about "overall cost" by the numbers vs "value per dollar" and "end result satisfaction". Along with different scenarios, comparisons and perspectives so you know why I made the suggestion I did.
Also staying within the context of the OP's desire to shoot long range and hunt big game with a reasonable energy level at distance.
Well right off the bat 223 is out of the running. Can you hunt and kill big game with 223? Yes. Is it advisable especially considering there are a multitude of better choices? NO...I also believe in practicing with the same gun you compete or hunt with. After a while you develop a sense of where to aim in different wind conditions. Shooting different cartridges and guns dulls the intuition some. So why practice with 223 if you are primarily hunting/competing with,for instance 6.5x55?
I noticed you mention in your post previously you were comparing the cost for 308 and 223 brass military brass acquired for nearly free. My first example would be comparing mixed lot, military, assorted headstamp 308 brass with new Lapua 6.5x55 brass of the same lot number. Not really a apples to apples comparison. Of course from a purely financial bias the 308 brass wins. From a accuracy, consistency and brass life perspective the Lapua 6.5x55 brass is hands down the best value. If you want to compare new Lapua 308 brass and new Lapua 6.5x55 then it's apples to apples as they are the same price and quality.
My next point would be ballistics.
Lets take a common modern load for 6.5x55 with 140's to compare to a common 308 load with 168's.
6.5x55
Litz G7 BC and the standard environmental on the JBM site.
Velocity of 2850fps.
Drop at 600Y is 73.2", drift for a 10mph wind is 17.6",energy left is 1405 ftlbs.
308
Litz G7 BC and the standard environmental on the JBM site.
Velocity of 2600fps.
Drop at 600Y is 97.1, drift for a 10mph wind is 26.3 and energy left is 1156 ftlbs.
Maybe it's just me but If I were a novice shooter attempting to make my first long range kill on a deer with any kind of wind involved I'd sure rather a have a 6.5x55 in this scenario ???
Or how about using a 308 at a long range event that allows other cartridges? Rarely is it that someone shooting a 308 wins the event. To me there's lots of value in better ballistics over actual dollar amount.
Concerning practice. Which type of practice brings the better result with the end result being the ability make a first round hit? Practice by going out and shooting larger quantities of ammo or quality practice by attempting to make 1st round hits on a target whether alive or not at distance? Or how productive will a practice session be?
It's just my opinion but I'll use my practice sessions as a example. I used to go out and shoot 100-200 rounds at time about 3 times a month. I learned some things practicing that way but not as much I've learned since I changed my practice regimen. I've been going out 2-3 times a week for a short period of time using 15-20 rounds and practice at one or two distances,positions or shooting scenarios. I found this to be far superior "and cheaper" to blowing off a bunch of ammo at one time and I've also become a much more versatile rifleman in the process having had my share of wins this year. So here again. There's value in efficient practice.
So here we are. Is a 223 or 308 cheaper to shoot? Yes. Is it necessarily the best value? Everyone has got to decide that for themselves.
Re: Best Beginner Caliber.
A 243 with an 8 twist shooting 105's, with the exception of elk, will kill your deer size game and give you very good ballistics out to 600. Easy on the shoulder and the wallet. The 260 & 6.5CM would be next and if elk is a must, the 308.
A 243 with an 8 twist shooting 105's, with the exception of elk, will kill your deer size game and give you very good ballistics out to 600. Easy on the shoulder and the wallet. The 260 & 6.5CM would be next and if elk is a must, the 308.
Re: Best Beginner Caliber.
the OP did not ask about cost, but also not about BC or many other factors that are being discussed, what was asked is opinions on "beginner" recommendations. My cost basis tries to point out common pitfalls that many including myself fall into early in the sport.
one of these would be the 1 rifle that will do it all(but never does)
for ammo you cannot buy once cry once, you have to cry continuously (or just not shoot)
another would be the best chambering/rifle (sitting in the case) will not improve skills as well as the one you can truly afford to shoot
I make the definite distinction between match and non match ammo, with the corresponding 2 entries for 308. Part of my point is that valuable practice does not require the same accuracy that is needed to win matches. Many chamberings do not have practical low cost options for ammo, I would like to have a low and high end estimate for the 10,000 rounds in as many chamberings as possible perhaps with a reasonable expectation of accuracy noted
A lot of folks are recommending what looks like good advice for a move up rifle/chambering perhaps a second list would be valuable
the OP did not ask about cost, but also not about BC or many other factors that are being discussed, what was asked is opinions on "beginner" recommendations. My cost basis tries to point out common pitfalls that many including myself fall into early in the sport.
one of these would be the 1 rifle that will do it all(but never does)
for ammo you cannot buy once cry once, you have to cry continuously (or just not shoot)
another would be the best chambering/rifle (sitting in the case) will not improve skills as well as the one you can truly afford to shoot
I make the definite distinction between match and non match ammo, with the corresponding 2 entries for 308. Part of my point is that valuable practice does not require the same accuracy that is needed to win matches. Many chamberings do not have practical low cost options for ammo, I would like to have a low and high end estimate for the 10,000 rounds in as many chamberings as possible perhaps with a reasonable expectation of accuracy noted
A lot of folks are recommending what looks like good advice for a move up rifle/chambering perhaps a second list would be valuable
Re: Best Beginner Caliber.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tunanut</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A 243 with an 8 twist shooting 105's, with the exception of elk, will kill your deer size game and give you very good ballistics out to 600. Easy on the shoulder and the wallet. The 260 & 6.5CM would be next and if elk is a must, the 308. </div></div>
could you put together an estimate for rifle/barrels/reloading for 10,000 rds and a reasonable estimate of accuracy over this span?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tunanut</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A 243 with an 8 twist shooting 105's, with the exception of elk, will kill your deer size game and give you very good ballistics out to 600. Easy on the shoulder and the wallet. The 260 & 6.5CM would be next and if elk is a must, the 308. </div></div>
could you put together an estimate for rifle/barrels/reloading for 10,000 rds and a reasonable estimate of accuracy over this span?
Re: Best Beginner Caliber.
I would say .223, or 6mm-223 if it isn't legal to hunt with a .224 diameter bullet in your area.
The combination of inexpensive ammunition and light recoil is conducive to lots of trigger time which I have found this is key for learning.
I would say .223, or 6mm-223 if it isn't legal to hunt with a .224 diameter bullet in your area.
The combination of inexpensive ammunition and light recoil is conducive to lots of trigger time which I have found this is key for learning.
Re: Best Beginner Caliber.
No doubt, my vote goes for a 308win if you don't already have a rifle in this calber. Cheaper ammo than speciality rounds, less recoil than magnums. You'll be able to shoot it in any LR comp, unlike many magnums. Cheap and easy to reload with ample information for various bullets and powders. Lots of factory loaded match grade ammo available. Fair ballistics with a short barrel (e.g. 20" to 22"). Okay for hunting as well.
But if you are mainly going to hunt elk or larger game at longer distances, then I would not pick a 308win, but rather something like a 300win mag, 7mm mag, etc. 284AI is a nice option for hunting and LR shooting, especially if you are going with a shorter barrel.
More info would help you get better advice.
No doubt, my vote goes for a 308win if you don't already have a rifle in this calber. Cheaper ammo than speciality rounds, less recoil than magnums. You'll be able to shoot it in any LR comp, unlike many magnums. Cheap and easy to reload with ample information for various bullets and powders. Lots of factory loaded match grade ammo available. Fair ballistics with a short barrel (e.g. 20" to 22"). Okay for hunting as well.
But if you are mainly going to hunt elk or larger game at longer distances, then I would not pick a 308win, but rather something like a 300win mag, 7mm mag, etc. 284AI is a nice option for hunting and LR shooting, especially if you are going with a shorter barrel.
More info would help you get better advice.
Re: Best Beginner Caliber.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ranger1183</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Stage #1: 0-50 yards = 22LR
Stage #2: 0-600 yards = 223/5.56mm
Stage #3: 0-1000 yards = .308/7.62x51
Stage #4: 0-1750 yards = .338 Norma/Lapua/Edge/Winchester/RUM
Save your dough as you train through stages. No need to be shooting match grade .308 if you'll get the same training value and save a lot of money shooting a 22LR.</div></div>
The best advice...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ranger1183</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Stage #1: 0-50 yards = 22LR
Stage #2: 0-600 yards = 223/5.56mm
Stage #3: 0-1000 yards = .308/7.62x51
Stage #4: 0-1750 yards = .338 Norma/Lapua/Edge/Winchester/RUM
Save your dough as you train through stages. No need to be shooting match grade .308 if you'll get the same training value and save a lot of money shooting a 22LR.</div></div>
The best advice...
Re: Best Beginner Caliber.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Nicksoore</div><div class="ubbcode-body">im going to go out on a limb and say 300 win. mag. something about hunting elk
#2 30-06
#3 308
#4 20 yrd head shot 223 </div></div>
why give wimpy advice, start with a 50 bmg or stay tied to Mama's apron
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Nicksoore</div><div class="ubbcode-body">im going to go out on a limb and say 300 win. mag. something about hunting elk
#2 30-06
#3 308
#4 20 yrd head shot 223 </div></div>
why give wimpy advice, start with a 50 bmg or stay tied to Mama's apron
Re: Best Beginner Caliber.
7mm bullets > 308 bullets
My choices:
1. 7mm-08
2. 280 Rem
3. 284 Win
4. 308
7mm bullets > 308 bullets
My choices:
1. 7mm-08
2. 280 Rem
3. 284 Win
4. 308
Re: Best Beginner Caliber.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: George63</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tunanut</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A 243 with an 8 twist shooting 105's, with the exception of elk, will kill your deer size game and give you very good ballistics out to 600. Easy on the shoulder and the wallet. The 260 & 6.5CM would be next and if elk is a must, the 308. </div></div>
could you put together an estimate for rifle/barrels/reloading for 10,000 rds and a reasonable estimate of accuracy over this span? </div></div>
Same as the 308, but add a extra barrel or two. There's no perfect "one gun" for everything. I shoot a couple hundred rounds a month and find it a joy with the 243. I have magnum actions in the safe, but they haven't seen the light of day in years. My 243 takes care of everyting I want to kill in NC also. I forgot to through out the 7mm08, also an excellent choice. I do find myself waiting for a 223 bolt gun with a 7 twist, I think it's going to be my next* favorite rifle.
I guess this whole debate depends on if the OP wants to hunt and shoot a little or have a rifle to shoot alot and hunt a little. If the former get a 7mmRem or 300WM. If the ladder, get one of the short actions mentioned.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: George63</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tunanut</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A 243 with an 8 twist shooting 105's, with the exception of elk, will kill your deer size game and give you very good ballistics out to 600. Easy on the shoulder and the wallet. The 260 & 6.5CM would be next and if elk is a must, the 308. </div></div>
could you put together an estimate for rifle/barrels/reloading for 10,000 rds and a reasonable estimate of accuracy over this span? </div></div>
Same as the 308, but add a extra barrel or two. There's no perfect "one gun" for everything. I shoot a couple hundred rounds a month and find it a joy with the 243. I have magnum actions in the safe, but they haven't seen the light of day in years. My 243 takes care of everyting I want to kill in NC also. I forgot to through out the 7mm08, also an excellent choice. I do find myself waiting for a 223 bolt gun with a 7 twist, I think it's going to be my next* favorite rifle.
I guess this whole debate depends on if the OP wants to hunt and shoot a little or have a rifle to shoot alot and hunt a little. If the former get a 7mmRem or 300WM. If the ladder, get one of the short actions mentioned.
Re: Best Beginner Caliber.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: George63</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
why give wimpy advice, start with a 50 bmg or stay tied to Mama's apron </div></div>
My 50BMG doesn't recoil as bad as my dad's 300wby mag.... His rifle is like getting kicked in the shoulder with steel toed boots (no brake) but my Windrunner is more of a stern push. Yeah the 50 moves you more, but does it "gently" compared to the 300...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: George63</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
why give wimpy advice, start with a 50 bmg or stay tied to Mama's apron </div></div>
My 50BMG doesn't recoil as bad as my dad's 300wby mag.... His rifle is like getting kicked in the shoulder with steel toed boots (no brake) but my Windrunner is more of a stern push. Yeah the 50 moves you more, but does it "gently" compared to the 300...
Re: Best Beginner Caliber.
Heres my .02.
I shot a 300 wsm and thought o i will be a crack shot with it, i can hunt deer, elk, bear, cougar, coyotes and target all day long. BIG FU*%ING MISTAKE ON MY PART. The rifle isnt enjoyable to shoot and neither is my 7mm or my 300wm and after shooting these a few times i dont even like to shoot my 308.
I picked up my ol rem700 22 250 vssf, i found my learning tool, Not to bad on reloads, no kick what so ever and thats a fast and fun round to shoot. I know it will kill deer, cougar, coyotes and target all day lonmg with no bruise and no bruise in the wallet either. Then when and i say "when" i am able to draw the elk tag i want i will grab my 300wm and use it. Right tool for the right job. I dont think its always the best idea to use a universal rifle for everything anymore. Atleast it wasnt for me. You may develop bad habits from shooting belted mag rifles all the time if you are not an experienced shooter. I consider myself experienced for most the part however belted mag rifles will give you bad habits i have found
Heres my .02.
I shot a 300 wsm and thought o i will be a crack shot with it, i can hunt deer, elk, bear, cougar, coyotes and target all day long. BIG FU*%ING MISTAKE ON MY PART. The rifle isnt enjoyable to shoot and neither is my 7mm or my 300wm and after shooting these a few times i dont even like to shoot my 308.
I picked up my ol rem700 22 250 vssf, i found my learning tool, Not to bad on reloads, no kick what so ever and thats a fast and fun round to shoot. I know it will kill deer, cougar, coyotes and target all day lonmg with no bruise and no bruise in the wallet either. Then when and i say "when" i am able to draw the elk tag i want i will grab my 300wm and use it. Right tool for the right job. I dont think its always the best idea to use a universal rifle for everything anymore. Atleast it wasnt for me. You may develop bad habits from shooting belted mag rifles all the time if you are not an experienced shooter. I consider myself experienced for most the part however belted mag rifles will give you bad habits i have found
Re: Best Beginner Caliber.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shootindude</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Heres my .02.
I shot a 300 wsm and thought o i will be a crack shot with it, i can hunt deer, elk, bear, cougar, coyotes and target all day long. BIG FU*%ING MISTAKE ON MY PART. The rifle isnt enjoyable to shoot and neither is my 7mm or my 300wm and after shooting these a few times i dont even like to shoot my 308.
I picked up my ol rem700 22 250 vssf, i found my learning tool, Not to bad on reloads, no kick what so ever and thats a fast and fun round to shoot. I know it will kill deer, cougar, coyotes and target all day lonmg with no bruise and no bruise in the wallet either. Then when and i say "when" i am able to draw the elk tag i want i will grab my 300wm and use it. Right tool for the right job. I dont think its always the best idea to use a universal rifle for everything anymore. Atleast it wasnt for me. You may develop bad habits from shooting belted mag rifles all the time if you are not an experienced shooter. I consider myself experienced for most the part however belted mag rifles will give you bad habits i have found </div></div>
I'm guessing your rifle isn't braked?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shootindude</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Heres my .02.
I shot a 300 wsm and thought o i will be a crack shot with it, i can hunt deer, elk, bear, cougar, coyotes and target all day long. BIG FU*%ING MISTAKE ON MY PART. The rifle isnt enjoyable to shoot and neither is my 7mm or my 300wm and after shooting these a few times i dont even like to shoot my 308.
I picked up my ol rem700 22 250 vssf, i found my learning tool, Not to bad on reloads, no kick what so ever and thats a fast and fun round to shoot. I know it will kill deer, cougar, coyotes and target all day lonmg with no bruise and no bruise in the wallet either. Then when and i say "when" i am able to draw the elk tag i want i will grab my 300wm and use it. Right tool for the right job. I dont think its always the best idea to use a universal rifle for everything anymore. Atleast it wasnt for me. You may develop bad habits from shooting belted mag rifles all the time if you are not an experienced shooter. I consider myself experienced for most the part however belted mag rifles will give you bad habits i have found </div></div>
I'm guessing your rifle isn't braked?
Re: Best Beginner Caliber.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: George63</div><div class="ubbcode-body">the OP did not ask about cost, but also not about BC or many other factors that are being discussed, what was asked is opinions on "beginner" recommendations. My cost basis tries to point out common pitfalls that many including myself fall into early in the sport.
one of these would be the 1 rifle that will do it all(but never does)
for ammo you cannot buy once cry once, you have to cry continuously (or just not shoot)
another would be the best chambering/rifle (sitting in the case) will not improve skills as well as the one you can truly afford to shoot
I make the definite distinction between match and non match ammo, with the corresponding 2 entries for 308. Part of my point is that valuable practice does not require the same accuracy that is needed to win matches. Many chamberings do not have practical low cost options for ammo, I would like to have a low and high end estimate for the 10,000 rounds in as many chamberings as possible perhaps with a reasonable expectation of accuracy noted
A lot of folks are recommending what looks like good advice for a move up rifle/chambering perhaps a second list would be valuable </div></div>
I got to thinking about your points with possible financial pitfalls and thought I'd mention some solutions to offset the overall cost.
Any time someone can only afford one rifle it's unfortunate but it's how life is sometimes. It doesn't have to be a pitfall though. In fact I bet after a few thousand rounds through it they'd be a much better shot than most of the people on this site with their many rifles,(safe queens)which rarely get shot.
Here's a few suggestions too save money on barrels and components.
Barrel life.
Meloniting can double barrel life. It only costs $75.
Not letting a barrel get too hot goes a long way in saving a barrel's life. Speculative but could give hundreds of extra rounds of throat life.
Using a slower single based powder for a particular case/bullet combo can preserve throat life.
Using reduced loads.
If someone really wanted to preserve barrel life to the utmost with any centerfire cartridge, all they'd have to do is work up a reduced charge load. For instance I know a guy that shoots 140 grain Noslers out of his 6.5-284 around 2830 fps. It's not uncommon for a barrel to last only 1200 rounds in this cartridge but he still gets 3/4" groups with over 3000 rounds through rifle. Conversely I know of at least one guy that lost accuracy with his 308 in the region of 4000 rounds because he was shooting 155's as fast as he could safely push them.
Pulloffs and medium price barrels.
Another way to save money on barrels is to buy factory pull offs. Often you can get them for not much more than a box of cartridges. Call any gunsmith that does chambering and ask.
Other deals can be found on new barrels. I bought a barrel from one of the better barrel makers for 25% less than regular price because they wanted to move it. Just call around.
One can always buy a action wrench and barrel vise or even a different bolt/bolt face. One gun could be used for multiple chamberings.
Having a barrel set back can extend it's life. I did this once with a 6.5-284. I won't do it again.
Brass and brass life.
This applies to cheap or expensive brass.
One can form 30-06 or 308 brass to many different chamberings. Sometimes inside neck reaming is in order or outside neck turning but not always.
Brass can be annealed to preserve it's life.
Neck sizing only until a shoulder bump or a full length size is necessarily can help preserve brass life as well as buying custom dies.
I've gone the custom die route and anneal. 4 years now with the same brass. I've lost count of how many times they've been reloaded.
Bullets,primers,powder.
Deals can be had. I bought a new unopened 8 lb jug of H-4831 for a $120 last week. Bought 7000 large rifle magnum primers for 40% less than the cheapest place I could find them else ware a couple years ago.
Sometimes Midway and other large retailers have sales on Bullet blems. Usually they are only discolored.
Use the SH classifieds,coupon codes,sales.
Be resourceful!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: George63</div><div class="ubbcode-body">the OP did not ask about cost, but also not about BC or many other factors that are being discussed, what was asked is opinions on "beginner" recommendations. My cost basis tries to point out common pitfalls that many including myself fall into early in the sport.
one of these would be the 1 rifle that will do it all(but never does)
for ammo you cannot buy once cry once, you have to cry continuously (or just not shoot)
another would be the best chambering/rifle (sitting in the case) will not improve skills as well as the one you can truly afford to shoot
I make the definite distinction between match and non match ammo, with the corresponding 2 entries for 308. Part of my point is that valuable practice does not require the same accuracy that is needed to win matches. Many chamberings do not have practical low cost options for ammo, I would like to have a low and high end estimate for the 10,000 rounds in as many chamberings as possible perhaps with a reasonable expectation of accuracy noted
A lot of folks are recommending what looks like good advice for a move up rifle/chambering perhaps a second list would be valuable </div></div>
I got to thinking about your points with possible financial pitfalls and thought I'd mention some solutions to offset the overall cost.
Any time someone can only afford one rifle it's unfortunate but it's how life is sometimes. It doesn't have to be a pitfall though. In fact I bet after a few thousand rounds through it they'd be a much better shot than most of the people on this site with their many rifles,(safe queens)which rarely get shot.
Here's a few suggestions too save money on barrels and components.
Barrel life.
Meloniting can double barrel life. It only costs $75.
Not letting a barrel get too hot goes a long way in saving a barrel's life. Speculative but could give hundreds of extra rounds of throat life.
Using a slower single based powder for a particular case/bullet combo can preserve throat life.
Using reduced loads.
If someone really wanted to preserve barrel life to the utmost with any centerfire cartridge, all they'd have to do is work up a reduced charge load. For instance I know a guy that shoots 140 grain Noslers out of his 6.5-284 around 2830 fps. It's not uncommon for a barrel to last only 1200 rounds in this cartridge but he still gets 3/4" groups with over 3000 rounds through rifle. Conversely I know of at least one guy that lost accuracy with his 308 in the region of 4000 rounds because he was shooting 155's as fast as he could safely push them.
Pulloffs and medium price barrels.
Another way to save money on barrels is to buy factory pull offs. Often you can get them for not much more than a box of cartridges. Call any gunsmith that does chambering and ask.
Other deals can be found on new barrels. I bought a barrel from one of the better barrel makers for 25% less than regular price because they wanted to move it. Just call around.
One can always buy a action wrench and barrel vise or even a different bolt/bolt face. One gun could be used for multiple chamberings.
Having a barrel set back can extend it's life. I did this once with a 6.5-284. I won't do it again.
Brass and brass life.
This applies to cheap or expensive brass.
One can form 30-06 or 308 brass to many different chamberings. Sometimes inside neck reaming is in order or outside neck turning but not always.
Brass can be annealed to preserve it's life.
Neck sizing only until a shoulder bump or a full length size is necessarily can help preserve brass life as well as buying custom dies.
I've gone the custom die route and anneal. 4 years now with the same brass. I've lost count of how many times they've been reloaded.
Bullets,primers,powder.
Deals can be had. I bought a new unopened 8 lb jug of H-4831 for a $120 last week. Bought 7000 large rifle magnum primers for 40% less than the cheapest place I could find them else ware a couple years ago.
Sometimes Midway and other large retailers have sales on Bullet blems. Usually they are only discolored.
Use the SH classifieds,coupon codes,sales.
Be resourceful!
Re: Best Beginner Caliber.
From a guy right here on the Hide in the classifieds.
Met him in Phoenix right after the AZ LRPRS. He had some other powders as well.
From a guy right here on the Hide in the classifieds.
Met him in Phoenix right after the AZ LRPRS. He had some other powders as well.
