Best ELR cartridge in standard LA

#51
With all the latest bullets 2000 yards works with the 7mm's and 30's if you have the right twist in your barrel.
The only catch is the original poster wants it to fit in a magazine so Warner Flatlines and cuttings edge Lazers most likely won't work.
The new Sierra has a G1 BC of 0.800 so it would be a good bullet to build around.
 
#53
I built a 338 Edge on a Savage LA and am single loading. With a 300 grain smk at 2800 fps I'm supersonic at 7000 DA to about 2100 yds with 980 ft lbs of energy still. Pac-Nor barrel is a 30" straight taper, way too heavy to hunt with. I hate the savage action and would like to magazine feed.

I have a long action Nucleus coming that I want to build into a long range hunter so this discussion is interesting. Was thinking a RUM but reading up on the 300 WM I am tempted by longer barrel life and less recoil but don't know about the hassle of the belt. Now this PRC is grabbing my attention as a happy middle ground.

With the PRC how hard could a guy push the 215 Berger or maybe the 212 ELD-X? This gun would be for ELR and hunting so I think a proof carbon barrel would save some weight. It will have a TOMB brake for my SAS Arbiter suppressor.
 
#54
BountyHunter said:
Dave,

Doing well. Still fighting the knee replacement. You took 3rd in HG at 2016 Nationals at Cool Acres with this cartridge didn't you? You were shooting the newer Hornady bullets too if I remember.
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Hope you get through that. Knock on wood most of my parts are still working well.
Tied for 1st in score and I think 5th overall I had a higher X count but the rules for the tiebreaker are different for the Nationals. Yes I was shooting the 225 ELD-M's
 
#57
verdugo60 said:
I built a 338 Edge on a Savage LA and am single loading. With a 300 grain smk at 2800 fps I'm supersonic at 7000 DA to about 2100 yds with 980 ft lbs of energy still. Pac-Nor barrel is a 30" straight taper, way too heavy to hunt with. I hate the savage action and would like to magazine feed.

I have a long action Nucleus coming that I want to build into a long range hunter so this discussion is interesting. Was thinking a RUM but reading up on the 300 WM I am tempted by longer barrel life and less recoil but don't know about the hassle of the belt. Now this PRC is grabbing my attention as a happy middle ground.

With the PRC how hard could a guy push the 215 Berger or maybe the 212 ELD-X? This gun would be for ELR and hunting so I think a proof carbon barrel would save some weight. It will have a TOMB brake for my SAS Arbiter suppressor.
Click to expand...

The 338 edge is definitely interesting to me, I've heard of guys opening up their action and stock inlet to accommodate mag feeding. I'm not sure about the barrel life because it shouldn't be too much different from the Lapua. But it does make me wonder about opening up the magazine to shoot flatelines out of the 7 mag or a 300 variant.

The RUM family doesn't seem to have the best luck with primer pockets but that's not my experience, rather just what I've read.
 
#58
Jackomason said:
The 338 edge is definitely interesting to me, I've heard of guys opening up their action and stock inlet to accommodate mag feeding. I'm not sure about the barrel life because it shouldn't be too much different from the Lapua. But it does make me wonder about opening up the magazine to shoot flatelines out of the 7 mag or a 300 variant.

The RUM family doesn't seem to have the best luck with primer pockets but that's not my experience, rather just what I've read.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I'm not having good luck with primer pockets from the Remington RUM brass but I think my load is over pressure. The "smith" who originally built the gun might have screwed up the headspace, I have always had chambering issues.

I don't think most my issues are specific to the cartridge, I think it's the savage action and possibly the headspace. I will say the Pac-Nor barrel is very accurate, it shoots very well. Ballistics wise the edge is impressive; 300 grain bullets just hit like a ton of bricks. Even going transonic past 2000 yds it has almost 1000 ft lbs of energy still. Basically Lapua ballistics on standard magnum bolt face.

30 Cal bullets are getting so efficient and heavy that the 30 magnums are catching up to 338's and the military and hunters moving back to them makes a lot of sense. You get a big percentage of 338 performance out of a smaller, lighter package.

I'm going to a Nucleus Long Action with a magnum bolt face and a barloc. This will enable me to swap my own Savage pre-fit barrels. I'll do a heavy steel one for ELR (I may steal the Edge barrel off the Savage) and a 26" proof barrel for carrying during hunting season. I was committed to 28 Nosler for that barrel but have read some pretty convincing stories from a guy that culls hundreds of elk a year that even with equal energy 30 Cal's seem to put elk down quicker than 7mm's, and 338's better than 30's. Either way it will be nice to have a 1000 yds+ capable hunting rifle that I can actually carry around and use my 30 Cal suppressor on.
 
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#63
The 7 LRM and the .30 PRC are probably your best answers. They are both .375 Ruger necked down. No belt, increased case capacity, standard mag boltface, same envelope as the .300 WM.
The new 7's have incredible BC's and less recoil than the .30 cal.
Hornady has 2 different 7mm 175's one they claim has a bc over .8 at mach 2.5.
You can't touch that with a .30 cal bullet.
The other has a bc a bit over .7 that can be slightly beat by the 225 ELD-M, but the difference is so slight, the velocity edge of the 7 is insurmountable.
The 7-.300 is a very good catridge, the LRM, on paper, is better. You have better brass options using the .300 WM case.
 
#64
verdugo60 said:
Yeah, I'm not having good luck with primer pockets from the Remington RUM brass but I think my load is over pressure. The "smith" who originally built the gun might have screwed up the headspace, I have always had chambering issues.

I don't think most my issues are specific to the cartridge, I think it's the savage action and possibly the headspace. I will say the Pac-Nor barrel is very accurate, it shoots very well. Ballistics wise the edge is impressive; 300 grain bullets just hit like a ton of bricks. Even going transonic past 2000 yds it has almost 1000 ft lbs of energy still. Basically Lapua ballistics on standard magnum bolt face.

30 Cal bullets are getting so efficient and heavy that the 30 magnums are catching up to 338's and the military and hunters moving back to them makes a lot of sense. You get a big percentage of 338 performance out of a smaller, lighter package.

I'm going to a Nucleus Long Action with a magnum bolt face and a barloc. This will enable me to swap my own Savage pre-fit barrels. I'll do a heavy steel one for ELR (I may steal the Edge barrel off the Savage) and a 26" proof barrel for carrying during hunting season. I was committed to 28 Nosler for that barrel but have read some pretty convincing stories from a guy that culls hundreds of elk a year that even with equal energy 30 Cal's seem to put elk down quicker than 7mm's, and 338's better than 30's. Either way it will be nice to have a 1000 yds+ capable hunting rifle that I can actually carry around and use my 30 Cal suppressor on.
Click to expand...
I have achieved Lapua ballistics with my 338 win mag. I chronoed my hornady 285 eld match at 2710fps with no pressure signs. That bullet has a BC of .798. That will go fast for along way ha. Another option out there that I have having success with.
 
#65
fdkay said:
The 7 LRM and the .30 PRC are probably your best answers. They are both .375 Ruger necked down. No belt, increased case capacity, standard mag boltface, same envelope as the .300 WM.
The new 7's have incredible BC's and less recoil than the .30 cal.
Hornady has 2 different 7mm 175's one they claim has a bc over .8 at mach 2.5.
You can't touch that with a .30 cal bullet.
The other has a bc a bit over .7 that can be slightly beat by the 225 ELD-M, but the difference is so slight, the velocity edge of the 7 is insurmountable.
The 7-.300 is a very good catridge, the LRM, on paper, is better. You have better brass options using the .300 WM case.
Click to expand...

Interestingly, BIGGER may be BETTER!

That is at least according to people like Paul Phillips who is kicking ass & taking names in the world of ELR. If you will note he is now shooting a .416, not a .375.

Initial thoughts may be someone would go that route to get a better BC with a .416 bullet, but it is actually because of the LARGER bullet size/weight which makes spotting impacts more easily. Bottom line, if you don't know where your shots are going, you can't call a miss and make a correction.

I have been shooting a .284 in F-Class with the phenominal 7mm bullets, and it works great because of the very high BC, and my impacts are on a paper or electronic target. I took that same rifle to an ELR match that was shot on steel in natural terrain and my misses "disappeared into no where"! I did not have enough bullet mass to kick up enough dirt to see where they were at. As such, I am also looking for something that can launch a much bigger bullet. Not sure what that will ultimately be?

You obviously need a high BC bullet. Recoil could be a factor. But you also need enough bullet mass to be able to see your impacts. Something possibly worth considering?
 
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#66
1clicktrick said:
I have achieved Lapua ballistics with my 338 win mag. I chronoed my hornady 285 eld match at 2710fps with no pressure signs. That bullet has a BC of .798. That will go fast for along way ha. Another option out there that I have having success with.
Click to expand...

That is pretty impressive for a necked up 300 Win Mag. What powder/load are you running and what length barrel? I'm guessing you could get 200 fps more from that bullet with an Edge, the Edge+P is getting 300 SMK'S to 3100ish but with probably 20 grains more powder, lol.
 
#67
LRShooter101 said:
Interestingly, BIGGER may be BETTER!

That is at least according to people like Paul Phillips who is kicking ass & taking names in the world of ELR. If you will note he is now shooting a .416, not a .375.

Initial thoughts may be someone would go that route to get a better BC with a .416 bullet, but it is actually because of the LARGER bullet size/weight which makes spotting impacts more easily. Bottom line, if you don't know where your shots are going, you can't call a miss and make a correction.


You obviously need a high BC bullet. Recoil could be a factor. But you also need enough bullet mass to be able to see your impacts. Something possibly worth considering?
Click to expand...

Good points on the 7mm misses.
 
#68
DAVETOOLEY said:
Long before we wildcatted this round I did some things with the 8X68S case. Tough RWS brass , no belt and the perfect capacity for 1K accuracy work in 30 cal. It worked well in 7MM also. My Hornady friend shot it for several years . 8x68S brass was getting hard to get then we switched to this case. Again a beltless case.
I will be building rifles and barrels if anyone is interested. I'm getting back into the retail market. My OEM work has gone away. Still have special projects from time to time but a guy needs walking around money.

To answer your questions. Because it is what I'd call a moderate capacity magnum I don't think there is much to gain by long barrels. 26" on a hunting rifle. I did 25" on mine. 28" on a long range gun unless it is a purpose built single shot ELR gun then another 2" won't hurt anything. It's as big as you can go and call it reasonably efficient. If 75-80 grs can be called efficient but that gives you powder options that larger cases don't .
In 7MM it would be a beast.
I use 72 grs. of 4831SC in my hunting rifle with 212's . I wasn't looking for speed. Just tuneable at moderate velocities.
Recoil - A WM to me comes back like a hatchet. This has a longer recoil impulse if that makes any sense. It's the same as comparing a Lapua to a Norma. Same performance but different recoil impulse.
Feel free to call me.
704- 864-7525
Click to expand...


So this is what happened to make the Boo Boo extinct? I love my 7mm Boo Boo and it is head and shoulders about the 300WM for accuracy and tuning. I buy 68s brass whenever I see it.
 
#69
verdugo60 said:
That is pretty impressive for a necked up 300 Win Mag. What powder/load are you running and what length barrel? I'm guessing you could get 200 fps more from that bullet with an Edge, the Edge+P is getting 300 SMK'S to 3100ish but with probably 20 grains more powder, lol.
Click to expand...
I actually got the 285 to 2775 and the bolt was slightly harder to lift, that was 76 grains of reloder23. I backed down to 74. I shoot 300smk at 2690 no signs there either. Hornady 250bthp to 2907 with reloder19. I'm running a 26 in shilen. Barrel is throated about .190. The 285 eld match oal is 3.588. Its a single shot, so that's why I ran them so far out. All my loads are .018 and 0.020 off lands. Accuracy is great.
 
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#70
Hairy Biker said:
So this is what happened to make the Boo Boo extinct? I love my 7mm Boo Boo and it is head and shoulders about the 300WM for accuracy and tuning. I buy 68s brass whenever I see it.
Click to expand...

The BooBoo is not extinct. I still shoot it. With the long life span of RWS brass I have enough stashed away for probably 5 more barrels.
 
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#77
Jackomason said:
Is it worth buying a reamer when you go with something like the 300 PRC? Will there be more than just Hornady brass for it any time soon?
Click to expand...

The 300 PRC is SAAMI cataloged now and brass will be available this fall. I'm trying to get the SAAMI spec sheet to post. Hornady will be the only brass unless it gets amazingly popular but you never know.

WWW.Huntingtons.com has 8X68S brass in stock or at least they let me put 10 boxes in my cart. RWS makes 300 WM but I have no first hand experience with that caliber. It might be something worth trying. I have 30 BooBoo cases that I know I've reload I know over 50 times.
 
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#78
Skookum said:
I am facing this decision right now also. I have literally a 5 gallon bucket full of once fired 300 WIN brass. I'm thinking a 28 or 30 inch straight tube for a somewhat cheaper ELR training rig. With the 30 incher I could launch 230's at around 3,000 fps pretty easily I think. That would allow me to practice out to 2,000+ yards a bit cheaper.
Click to expand...


No first hand experience, but I came here to parrot that I heard great things about the 7/300 wm from Paul McCoy at PMAC precision. May shoot him an email and get his perspective. It's what I'll build if I ever decide I have to have a long action magnum.
 
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#80
One of the things I have learned the hard way is brass availability.

I enjoy shooting several different caliber of rifles, with that said I WILL NOT
have built or purchase a rifle until I have 1K rds of either good quality virgin brass
or factory loaded rds in my possession.

Rant over. Have a great day!
 
#81
DAVETOOLEY said:
Long story but a customer came to me in the late 90's. We wildcatted everything back then. He wanted to do something on the 8X68S case in 30 cal. His nickname at work was BooBoo. Basically it's 300WM capacity with excellent brass. No belt and tougher than hell.
Click to expand...
What were the neck length and shoulder angle on that 30 Boo Boo Dave, I forget.
 
#82
DAVETOOLEY said:
RWS makes 300 WM but I have no first hand experience with that caliber. It might be something worth trying. I have 30 BooBoo cases that I know I've reload I know over 50 times.
Click to expand...

I have some RWS 300 Win cases in my possession. A hand full came in with an order of once fired range brass. I haven't loaded it, but I did weigh it. It weighs over 30 grains more than Federal or Winchester brass. RWS weighed 275+ grains per piece vs. 235-245 grains for all other makes.
 
#83
jetmd said:
One of the things I have learned the hard way is brass availability.

I enjoy shooting several different caliber of rifles, with that said I WILL NOT
have built or purchase a rifle until I have 1K rds of either good quality virgin brass
or factory loaded rds in my possession.

Rant over. Have a great day!
Click to expand...
Im dealing w that now. My fast twist 7mm Bartlein has came in but I'm 2nd guessing the 28 Nosler due to brass. Im in no rush so time will tell!
 
#85
The 7mm Boo Boo really lead the way for a lot of the big 7mm's we are seeing today. I really love the flexibility of the 68s brass and part of me wants a 257 Banshee (necked now 68s brass sending 100 grain 25 cal bullets out at 3900fps), but again, there are other options now.

Running the 7mm against a 338 Lapua and 300 Win Mag is very interesting. The 180 Bergers are up to the job against the 250 grain and 230 grain loads out to 2000 yards with the Boo Boo MV of 3050fps. The issue at very long range has been the dirt splash against the heavier bullets.

Anyway, this is a long way of saying to Dave, a brilliant creation that more people should re-visit.
 
#86
Ummm... What does this mean for the 7mm / 27" barrel blank that I have sitting here? :unsure:

This is where you guys don't come back with "sell that too-short barrel"... ELR "Shorty" maybe?!
 
#88
Hairy Biker said:
The 7mm Boo Boo really lead the way for a lot of the big 7mm's we are seeing today. I really love the flexibility of the 68s brass and part of me wants a 257 Banshee (necked now 68s brass sending 100 grain 25 cal bullets out at 3900fps), but again, there are other options now.

Running the 7mm against a 338 Lapua and 300 Win Mag is very interesting. The 180 Bergers are up to the job against the 250 grain and 230 grain loads out to 2000 yards with the Boo Boo MV of 3050fps. The issue at very long range has been the dirt splash against the heavier bullets.

Anyway, this is a long way of saying to Dave, a brilliant creation that more people should re-visit.
Click to expand...

Just to add fuel to the fire. I had my Banshee reamer reground to match the BooBoo body. You can use the same dies.
 
#89
I have the same opinion as bab029. Call Paul McCoy at PMAC precision. I have two rifles built by him. Both will shoot sub 1/4 MOA regularly. He is a wealth of knowledge and builds great rifles. I have heard that his 7-300's shoot extremely well.
 
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#90
Jackomason said:
If you were to rebarrel your standard Long action in an attempt to create a budget ELR rifle what would you get and how would you configure it? I've seen some interesting talk of the 300 & 338s in both lapua and norma cases but clearly those are limited to X-large actions.

I was thinking maybe a 300 RUM with the left hand gain twist and launching some solids. My bergara will need to get rebarreled sooner or later and would like to play a little more at the mile + stuff.
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cant really go wrong with something in 7mm. Not bad for deer or antelope at 400-800 and even the smaller 7mm rem mag is good on steel out to 1800+ yards edit: oh i forgot, they're great for elk, moose, anything in north america. My point kinda was that if you shoot a antelope at 400 yards with a 300 rum you probably won't have to gut it...
 
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