Read this yesterday and couldn't believe it and after pulling out my Vudoo with the S3 on it this morning to clean I still can't. Spongy? Hardly. They are tactile and audible. No sponginess at all. They are better than my first Gen III and after I sent it in and got it fixed the turrets were harder to turn and more tactile and audible. Harder with a deeper feel of the Gen III is just a different feel. Doesn't make the S3 spongy at all. It's easier to spin fast which is nice.
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Best optic in the $2k range
- Thread starter steve101610
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Read this yesterday and couldn't believe it and after pulling out my Vudoo with the S3 on it this morning to clean I still can't. Spongy? Hardly. They are tactile and audible. No sponginess at all. They are better than my first Gen III and after I sent it in and got it fixed the turrets were harder to turn and more tactile and audible. Harder with a deeper feel of the Gen III is just a different feel. Doesn't make the S3 spongy at all. It's easier to spin fast which is nice.
I don’t know why you feel so personally attacked whenever anyone has even a minor criticism of the S3. It’s a great scope, I still own one, but yeah the turrets definitely aren’t as nice as the G3 - to me anyway. I like super defined clicky turrets like the PM2 etc. I also don’t love the ATACR turrets..
Not personally attacked at all but trying to give anyone looking a true picture of what they are getting. Spongy is not a term I would even think to use to describe them as they aren’t at all.
I have 2 S3s 4-25 and 6-36, the turrets are better than the non revised early gen3 razor as those were lacking like hell. However the newer gen3, I feel, are more solid, audible, and defined than my two S3 samples. The S3 is a lil softer, less of a solid click more of a dull clunk as I dial. They are still totally usable, and work just fine, they just have a different feel.
Spongier. If there is a sliding scale from rigid to spongey, the Zeiss is spongier than the Razor, and more rigid than a LHT for example.
It’s a spectrum.
Yes they do have a different feel and the Gen III is more of a heavy click noise into a deep notch but the S3 is not spongy at all as you know. Both are plenty solid and audible with no spongy feel or slop. They drop into their adjustment and you know it’s there. That is my point. If you like loud clicks then great but both are solid and not spongy.
No it’s not. Spongy is soft with play. Not a lighter solid click. It’s not a spectrum. Only difference is noise.
Ok man, I’m done arguing semantics with a random on the internet 
Hope you’re ok.
Hope you’re ok.
Ok man, I’m done arguing semantics with a random on the internet
Hope you’re ok.
I’m fine thanks. Lol Not semantics but terminology. If you felt a spongy turret you would know. It’s got some play and feels soft and has movement without going into another click. Not just a softer sounding solid click with no play. But you don’t want to argue with this “random” so just wanted to get that out so no misinterpretation hinders another’s decision whatever that will be.
Edited to add a little video of a spongy turret. You can see the softness of the play in the turret before going into the next click. That’s spongy.
I‘m down to the same choosing between Razor G3, MK5 or Zeiss S3. Would like to do a S3 due to internal elevation range, but in case of damaging a scope like I did on my PST (bent the tube when dropped rifle on the scope‘s back on concrete), nice to have a warranty that covers accidents.
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Are you talking the 4-25 s3? Only place you'll use that extra elevation is elr rimfire. Razor gen3 can run to a mile plus easy on dasher/gt/creed. Most them going transonic before that, so shouldn't be shooting that far anyway. If you're after a scope dedicated for elr 1300-2k yards, you'll want better glass and a different bodied scope than an S3. Hell or a gen3 razor. I'd be chasing a 7-35 Theta, ZCO 527. Something truly ALPHA as those scopes see through Mirage and poor conditions noticeably better than a gen3 or s3. You can call bullshit or whatever, they're not very different, but get out in fog, smoke, heavy Mirage, test em......my ZCO's are way better in heavy Mirage than gen3 or s3 and in early morning fog, or smoke, you can make out your targets at 800-900y, that you cannot see with a gen3/s3. Spending the money to get into alpha truly gets you a superior scope. However lots of shooters go out to local club and just shoot for fun in good conditions, alpha glass will never benefit them much if this is the applications.
My S&B PMII really shined against my G2 and G3 at our 1 mile shoot this year. It was able to "cut" through the mirage and see certain details well beyond the 1 mile target. The G3 is better overall value though and better customer service. S&B's customer service blows though. Called and emailed them twice about getting a quote to swap my boomer P4FL reticle to a GRID reticle and zero responses back. S&B does have a pdf that I can fill out and send it in with my optic but still no prices listed. Vortex for the win here. I did however sell my G2 to buy a Steiner TX6i to diversify things.
Did you call Schmidt Bender's service center in VA? If not, call them up. Emails are worthless in that many companies are either slow to respond or don't respond at all from what I've seen.
I was quoted $800 to swap a P4FL to an H59 years ago on a 4-16x50 PM2. Depending on how old your PM2 is, they may or may not be able to swap in a GRID.
If Jerry Ricker is still there, he will get you squared away. He's also a member here but cant find his user name atm.
Schmidt Bender USA
204 McGhee Rd
Winchester, VA 22603
U.S.A
Phone +1 (540) 450 8132
Good news: Just called a minute ago and spoke to Jerry (I was calling a general customer service line earlier this year).
Bad news: $1426 for GRID or $1900+ for Horus.
Next step, find a person who thinks the GRID is too busy for them and trade my P4FL for it.
Glad you were able to connect w/Jerry...SBs cms definitely doesn't suck; in fact it's prob the best or among the best in the industry however, as you found out just now, you have to call their service center and speak to Jerry or one of the other folks that answer phones there.Good news: Just called a minute ago and spoke to Jerry (I was calling a general customer service line earlier this year).
Bad news: $1426 for GRID or $1900+ for Horus.
Next step, find a person who thinks the GRID is too busy for them and trade my P4FL for it.
Damn, reticle swaps have gone way up...Tells me they really don't want to do them and will make it worth their while if someone really wants it done.
I'd buy 4 or 5 Arkens, and call it a day! It's a Razor killer
I've got 3 nx8 NF 4-32 ff1and I have zero compalints good for judging animals at 32 power, and of course can't go wrong with NF
and NCStar is the Arken killer, so just buy 80 of those an call it a dayI'd buy 4 or 5 Arkens, and call it a day! It's a Razor killer
Haha, my thoughts exactly... And I've had them side by side.
I was surprised to see the poster above say the NX8 has nicer glass then the Pro. I'm not even convinced it has nicer glass than the XTR III, let alone the Pro. But all due respect to the fact that folks see things differently.
But I've yet to see or hear anyone say parallax is finicky on any XTR, the Pro, II, or III. I've shot thousands of rounds through these optics in PRS for the last 8 years. I can set the parallax in the general area and transition through multiple target distances without issue. I've never had DOF or parallax issues. It's always been very forgiving.
I only have the 630 XTR3 & I'd say the same. Parallax & DOF seem to be about equal to my 735 ATACR.
That's a good thing, because the parallax knob on my XTR3 is an absolute piece of shit. It's not something you can get accustomed to.
I've seen a few stiff ones. Nothing worse than that. Have you reached put to Burris CS?
They’ve seen it for a broken elevation turret, so they ok’ed it before shipping it back to me.
It’s on a .22LR, so I get to feel it a lot. I need to replace the scope on a .223 trainer w/ something MRAD… the parallax knob and the turrets are the reasons why I didn’t just immediately order another XTR3. I’ll probably get something with the EBR-7C, since it’s closer to the Mil-XT
It’s on a .22LR, so I get to feel it a lot. I need to replace the scope on a .223 trainer w/ something MRAD… the parallax knob and the turrets are the reasons why I didn’t just immediately order another XTR3. I’ll probably get something with the EBR-7C, since it’s closer to the Mil-XT
I believe that you will be happy with a Zeiss S3 4x25x50 or a Leupold Mark 5 3.6x18x44 illuminated on a .223 trainer. If you price shop, you can get either for less than $2,000. If you compare those scopes to a Vortex G3 it is like driving a M1 Abrams to pick up your kids at school. The glass, size, weight, finish and warranty is a bargain in that price range. I have some Redfield's and Leupold's from the 1970-80s that are still good scopes, but they are not on my best rifles.
Warranty Warrior says Vortex Razor Gen 3 6-36x56 for the absolute quickest turn around time if you ever need to send it in for warranty and Vortex even pays for your shipping both ways. This free roundtrip shipping and insurance alone makes the Vortex worth more than their tropical selling prices IMHO saving at least $80-$100+ to ship with full insurance.
If warranty isn't a priority nor wait time, the Zeiss S3 version has a lifetime warranty but their electronics illuminated reticle only has a 5 year limited warranty and you are responsible to pay shipping to them if and when you need warranty and I don't think they are as quick of a turn around time as Vortex if they have to send it to Germany or even Japan in this case. I don't know what's the cost of parts and labor to repair their electronics past their 5 year warranty is either or if they are able to or intend to fix out of warranty repairs. Something to consider and have spare scope or maybe they even have a loaner program while they're fixing your scope upon request from what I've read.
Burris XTR PRO is another option but they are rather crude and rough around the edges not perfect for the price they go for IMHO. Their eyebox and FOV is huge though and their large removable turret kits are excellent. Buy it for it's lighter weight compared to the others. Lifetime FOREVER warranty including their electronics MADE IN THE USA. The actually fix them under warranty so there will be a little down time compared to Vortex more than likely replacing their Razors for brand new ones.
Tract Toric ELR 4-25x50 regular price $1494.00 or 10% off come December or 15% off at anytime with LE/Military discount is a much cheaper alternative to the S3 4-25x50 version of this scope. Lifetime warranty including their electronics pretty much hassle free get a brand new replacement for quickest turnaround time almost as quick as Vortex. They sent a prepaid label for a friend's (not this 4-25x model though) Toric scope but I don't know if free prepaid shipping label is a regular thing Tract does for everyone. I owned a total of 3 Tract Toric scopes and so far, none needed warranty. I got rid of 2 of my 4-20x50 30mm Toric scopes though because the much cheaper Chinese Athlon Ares BTR G2 4.5-27x50 30mm was better and in fact, I actually bought 2 more of these Athlon Ares to replace those Torics. I still like my 4.5-30x56 34mm Toric ELR though which is superior to their 4-20x50 30mm models only thing I don't like is it's excessive weight. Tract Optics even has a money back guarantee if you aren't happy with your purchase.
If you want a really good deal on a Meopta Optika 6 5-30x56 at a significant discount, EuroOptic and Scopelist currently have them on sale for $699.99 with free shipping and they are normally $1259 scopes. Check with both dealers before ordering and maybe one can even eat your tax if you ask. I've never seen them selling for this cheap before. Lifetime warranty including their electronics. I don't know how long they take for warranty turnaround time since not a single person I know had to ever send their Meopta in for warranty, ever...
