Best out of the box accuracy on a .223

[Broc]

Hello all, I'm thinking of picking up a bolt action .223 for hunting and target shooting out to 400-600yds and was hoping for a few suggestions. I'm on a budget around $600 and would like find a gun that just plain shoots (MOA or less on factory match ammo) without a whole lot of customization.

Searches on the Hide have shown the Savage 10FP to be a top choice. If I understand it right, currently the 2009 10FP doesn not have the new AccuStock or the DBM. This is not a big deal, the stock can be replaced and the DBM isn't that big of a deal to me. I see mention of actions that are center feed. Were some 10FP's non-centerfeed? I'm not that familiar with Savage firearms.

I know this might be a unrealistic idea. Wouldn't it be great if all guns were sub-MOA and under $600?

Thanks for any thought and suggestions. They are appreciated!

 

[deadly0311]

Re: Best out of the box accuracy on a .223

if you can find a remington sps tactical its a great shooter. I think there is one for sale in the exchange right now, its under Rifles For Sale, thats the title of the thread

 

[Graham]

Re: Best out of the box accuracy on a .223

Accuracy, like consistency, 'out of the box' is a crapshoot: you might get a good barrel and a round chamber, or not.

 

[Alaskaman11]

Re: Best out of the box accuracy on a .223

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: deadly0311</div><div class="ubbcode-body">if you can find a remington sps tactical its a great shooter. I think there is one for sale in the exchange right now, its under Rifles For Sale, thats the title of the thread </div></div>

I agree, I got a 700 Police model in 556. This thing shoots like a raped ape and I have done nothing to it. I guess the only thing I would change would be putting a Jwl trigger in it.

 

[taracer]

Re: Best out of the box accuracy on a .223

I would sugjest looking into a tikka T3 lite. must shoot moa or less or doesn't leave the factory,1/8 twist, detachable magizine, and priced in your budget. The only thing they will not have is a heavy barrel and a lot of aftermarket goodies like the savage and the remington. But far smoother action than either one. Check one out and you will be surprised. Gary

 

[Scottmilk9]

Re: Best out of the box accuracy on a .223

I did this with a factory 1/9 twist 700 tactical. I also do these types of groups guaranteed with my AR's:

lrprs.com

 

[usmcsniperone]

Re: Best out of the box accuracy on a .223

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: deadly0311</div><div class="ubbcode-body">if you can find a remington sps tactical its a great shooter. I think there is one for sale in the exchange right now, its under Rifles For Sale, thats the title of the thread</div></div>

Ditto! I have one as my woodchuckin.."86 last year" coyote slappin pea shooter. Also going to try it at the Odessa F-class shoot on 1-august. It shoots under 1/2 MOA all day with 60 grain ballistic tip varmint bullets and 24.7 grains of benchmark. The 20 barrel works great for swinging around fast on those incoming dogs and the Hogue stock although cheap, is pillar bedded and the rubber overmold gives a good grip while wearing gloves in the winter.All for around $ 525.00.

 

[robpiat]

Re: Best out of the box accuracy on a .223

Out of the box, a savage is hard to beat. Not sure what the twist rate is on the factory guns?

 

[tman300wm]

Re: Best out of the box accuracy on a .223

+ 1 on Savage (Model 12BVSS, 1 in 9 for .223). I have not had a Savage that is not a shooter right out of the box. Wish I could say the same for some of the other (more expensive) rifles I have bought.....

CZ527's (esp the Varmit Kevlar model) are nice and shoot pretty well. I have one, and it is a 1 in 9 twist. It really likes the 60+ gr bullets, but best groups are around .75 moa at best. One problem is bolt knob angle when the bolt is open. It gets in the way of large tube optics, and you can't mount your scope low to the bore.... It also has scope rails milled into the top of the receiver, so putting a picatinney rail on it with an MOA cant is pretty much out of the question without a trip to the gun smith.

If I had it to do over I would get a Savage or Remington....

 

[Lineman711]

Re: Best out of the box accuracy on a .223

I'd try to find an SPS Tactical. Practical, affordable, and accurate.

My cousin has one, and while I've not tried factory ammo or shot at ranges from 400-600 yards, I can hold groups at 250 yards right around an inch.

He said the gun "needed to be shot" so I loaded up about 100 rounds or so consisting of older brass and bullets that I don't shoot anymore. 25.5 grains of 748 behind PMC 62 grain flat base shot incredible groups. Not even sure if you can buy those bullets anymore but he's sure trying to find them.

Good luck on finding the rifle that fits you. I'd search around a bit and buy used.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Best out of the box accuracy on a .223

I would say that the $600 barrier sets too low a ceiling.

For Savage .223's, the best I could find even near it is the 11FCNS at $656, and that does not have a varmint weight barrel. What it <span style="font-style: italic">does</span> have is a detachable mag and a 1:9" rifling twist that will support heavier bullets to help you reach out beyond 300yd. Maybe better suited to hunting (small game) than target shooting at extended distance; and I could be wrong though. Accuracy might be better than the lighter barrel weight might suggest.

I would suggest the 10 Precision Carbine, listing at $829, as a better precison rifle.

My recommendation of these models is based on their both utilizing the Accue-Stock, which is a brand new development in which I have considerable admiration.

Greg

 

[Graham]

Re: Best out of the box accuracy on a .223

For six hundred, I would drop the bolt-gun idea and get a White Oak or Accuracy Speaks upper: something with a Wylde chamber and a fast twist, or a 1 in 7 Douglas barrel.

 

[usmcsniperone]

Re: Best out of the box accuracy on a .223

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would say that the $600 barrier sets too low a ceiling.

For Savage .223's, the best I could find even near it is the 11FCNS at $656, and that does not have a varmint weight barrel. What it <span style="font-style: italic">does</span> have is a detachable mag and a 1:9" rifling twist that will support heavier bullets to help you reach out beyond 300yd. Maybe better suited to hunting (small game) than target shooting at extended distance; and I could be wrong though. Accuracy might be better than the lighter barrel weight might suggest.

I would suggest the 10 Precision Carbine, listing at $829, as a better precison rifle.

My recommendation of these models is based on their both utilizing the Accue-Stock, which is a brand new development in which I have considerable admiration.

Greg</div></div>

Greg
Through the dealer I told you about at the odessa match I can get the Savage Model 10 precision carbine for around $650 tax included. The rem. 700 sps tactical for around $565 tax included.

See you at the match next sat. with my little .223...just mounted a 20X target dot on it.Shoots just under 1/2 moa at 100yrds...Hope it does as good then!!!

 

[BgBmBoo]

Re: Best out of the box accuracy on a .223

I would give a very hard look at the Tikka T3 Lite. The .223 model comes in a 1:8 twist so you can shoot the high(er) BC bullets. Detachable mag. EGW sells 20 MOA Picatinny rails for $35.00 for them. You can find the blued models for around $500 NEW.

And they shoot excellent...here is the Group Target I shot with my T3 Lite at 100yrds...from the prone with bi-pod and rear bag. Trigger are fantastic and can be set down to 2 lbs with just the use of a allen wrench.

Manners is now inletting their stocks for the T3's, there is another gent here on the Hide that makes drop in Tactical bolt knobs, Pete Lincoln makes a chassis that will take AICS stock panels, you can get extra 6 round mags from Beretta,etc.

If you wanted to spend a bit more look at the Super Varmint or Tactical models. Heavy barrel and adjustable stocks. My buddy has a a Tactical model in .223 with a 20" barrel for sale right now for $750.00...PM me if interested and I will give you his contact info.

Good luck on your search,Stan

 

[Hunt]

Re: Best out of the box accuracy on a .223

On the cheap ~ Savage.
On the dough ~ Sako.

 

[Sterling Shooter]

Re: Best out of the box accuracy on a .223

All,

My experience suggests, if the stock and barreled action relationship is consistent, and, if the trigger is pullable, without disturbing aim, sub MOA becomes a concept mostly about the shooter and ammo. Get any gun which produces relatively low recoil from its ammunition (like the .223), and, with a consistent position for predictable recoil, bullets will stack up.

 

[Broc]

Re: Best out of the box accuracy on a .223

Thanks for all the help! After reading the responses, it looks like the Savage (10FP, Precision Carbine, or other new style Savage), Remington SPS Tactical and the Tikka T3 lite are the top 3 suggestions. That and just spend more money on something nicer.

Stan - Have you shot any factory ammo with your T3 lite? If so, how did those groups compare to your reloads? Those groups have me very interested in the T3.

Thanks again for all the help.

 

[rman]

Re: Best out of the box accuracy on a .223

I'll second the Tikka family...the bolts are real slick..triggers great out of the box, they come with a mag..although the mags are expensive if you lose one. I have a Tikka T3 stainless varminter...that just pounds whatever you feed it..I had the barrel cut down and threaded..a feature thats already done on the Tactical version(18x1)..The new stocks are kinda cheap and pingy..But there is a fella, Robertson Stocks,in Ottawa Ontario Canada that makes an outstanding, solid tactical stock.

 

[donws2]

Re: Best out of the box accuracy on a .223

I would say Savage also. I've never seen one that did not shoot. Remingtons will now and again produce one that will not shoot. I do own two 700P's in 223 that shoot bug holes at 100 yards. But I've sold a few that would not shoot that well to. Once you find yourself a nice one keep it. It's the good shooting rifles that I always regret letting go. Donald

 

[BgBmBoo]

Re: Best out of the box accuracy on a .223

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Broc</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks for all the help! After reading the responses, it looks like the Savage (10FP, Precision Carbine, or other new style Savage), Remington SPS Tactical and the Tikka T3 lite are the top 3 suggestions. That and just spend more money on something nicer.

Stan - Have you shot any factory ammo with your T3 lite? If so, how did those groups compare to your reloads? Those groups have me very interested in the T3.

Thanks again for all the help. </div></div>

ALL the Tikka's I have owned or shot are sub 1/2" rifles...with factory ammo. The above group was shot with my "copy" loads of Black Hills 50gr Vmax Red Box.
Top pic below was shot with factory BH Red Box 50gr Vmax's. Pic below that is shot with my T3 Lite in .243 using Hornady 75gr HP ammo.
And the third group of targets was from my Tikka Tactical model in .308 using Black Hills, Federal,and Hornady 168gr BTHP Match ammo...so yes...they shoot that good with factory ammo...oh...and the last pic is a group and two dead FLY's!! Shot by my buddy with his Tikka Tactical in .223 at 100yrds using Black Hills Blue Box 50gr. Vmax.

Take care,Stan

 

[He Shoot Me]

Re: Best out of the box accuracy on a .223

"2 fly's at a 100 yards"

Thats f...ing kick-ass right there! Gotta show that to my buddy, he's got a Tikka Varmint.

-Pat

 

[GuinnessNM]

Re: Best out of the box accuracy on a .223

I like my Tikka T3 Varmint. With BHA 77 SMK or similar handloads loads it shoot consistently 0.7 MOA extreme size for 5-shot groups. Sometimes one gets smaller or larger groups - that is the nature of statistics - but this is the average for several groups.

 

[Buzzsaw]

Re: Best out of the box accuracy on a .223

Haven't shot any flies yet but this Savage Model 12 Long range precision varminter is way better than me. 1-7 twist loves 80 gr Amax's and SMK's over Varget.

Bad news is I may have to sell it to fund another rifle project.

 

[Scottmilk9]

Re: Best out of the box accuracy on a .223

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scottmilk9</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I did this with a factory 1/9 twist 700 tactical. I also do these types of groups guaranteed with my AR's:

lrprs.com </div></div>

This group I shot thursday morning was .210, granted it was handloaded with 75gr BTHP from Hornady.

 

[BgBmBoo]

Re: Best out of the box accuracy on a .223

Is that a five shot group?

 

[Scottmilk9]

Re: Best out of the box accuracy on a .223

No unfortuantely I ran out of ammo, that was my last 3 rounds. So its only a 3 shot group.

 

[Sterling Shooter]

Re: Best out of the box accuracy on a .223

All,

Groups at 100 yards reveal, dramatically, things about the shooter and equipment. If the equipment is not broken, and, the shooter knows a little something about marksmanship, then, from a steady position, groups should always be relatively small, like not much bigger than the diameter of a single bullet. With guns having little recoil, expect very small groups.

Groups at 100 where bullets are not stacking up suggest either a gross marksmanship issue, or broken equipment, such as bad bedding.

Remember, the called flyer's are usually indicative of a less than perfect position, rather than anything about the gun, ammunition, or sight/s. Check for inconsistent stock-weld, butt-to-shoulder, trigger control, muscular relaxation and NPA.

When groups become consistently small and shooting becomes boring, which it will unless you've got an IQ under 77, get a new gun and begin the process again, or just buy a set of iron sights for a little more of a challenge.

If you get to where you can put 'em all in one hole at 100 with irons, you can celebarate, truly knowing a little more about marksmanship than most folks.