Best Piston AR for 3 gun???

[TEAMSENDIT]

Well i am a complete noob to 3 gun and i know most people don't go with piston ar for 3 gun i am still interested in the lack of cleaning. I don't need a battle rifle i am not military/le and i only shoot on one way ranges and don't need to look like a wannabee.

budget is max of $3000 but the less money the better for me.

I have even considered a sig 556.

I have thousand of rounds through bolt guns but probably only couple thousand rounds through ar's and most of them have been through varmint style ar rifles.

 

[Glen Seekins]

Re: Best Piston AR for 3 gun???

Buy a STI and be done with it... In 40cal.

Headed off to the Rocky MT 3 gun shoot in the AM

 

[TEAMSENDIT]

Re: Best Piston AR for 3 gun???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: heatseekins</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Buy a STI and be done with it... In 40cal.

Headed off to the Rocky MT 3 gun shoot in the AM

</div></div>

glen you are hilarious 40cal ar haha, if you have any ideas you want me to try out i am game your upper/lowers are the shit!!

i shot my sig x5 tactical last weekend and will be sticking with that for pistol. just need to find a good holster for it.

 

[VKC]

Re: Best Piston AR for 3 gun???

POF or LWRC for complete rifle. Adams arms for upper or conversion.

 

[hk dave]

Re: Best Piston AR for 3 gun???

LMT Piston if you must have a piston AR

 

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

Re: Best Piston AR for 3 gun???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Gunnery Sergeant Hartman: Private Pyle, what are you trying to do to my beloved 3-Gun
Private Gomer Pyle: Sir, I don't know, sir!
Gunnery Sergeant Hartman: Then you did that on purpose! You wanna be different!
Private Gomer Pyle: Sir, no, sir!
</div></div>

A little humor there. Why go with a piston, do you just want to be different?

Between JP, Larue and Noveske you can get awesomely set up 3-gun rifles for $3000k with an optic. Sure a SCAR or ACR is cool, but I've seen less than great things about Sig 556 rifles for sale here in the states.

A JP 18inch upper with rifle length adjustable gas and the JP bolt carrier and Light Operating system buffer is trully a sign that God loves us. Add in any old lower (or a JP lower to keep it all kosher) with a Geisselle trigger and you've got a boom stick unparalled for 3-gunning.

Nothing wrong with going with a good piston gun, but why? Just to be different?

Pull the BCG, wipe stuff down, run a couple of patches thru the bore and viola. I think ARs run best when they are a bit 'seasoned' anyway.

 

[devildog62]

Re: Best Piston AR for 3 gun???

Agree with lwrc, pws also puts out a frickin nasty ar platform.

 

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

Re: Best Piston AR for 3 gun???

I had a Sig X-5 Tactical and the Bladetech holster worked pretty well. I eventually made my own Kydex for it for lower profile.

 

[TEAMSENDIT]

Re: Best Piston AR for 3 gun???

to be clear i am not talking fn scar or acr those are battle rifles and dont have the kind of accuracy i am after.

I am interested in piston because i already have a di and this is a good reason to try out a piston ar. so my question to you is why not on the piston ar? what makes it a bad 3 gun ar. wouldn't clean and reliable be good features?

 

[db_17_85]

Re: Best Piston AR for 3 gun???

Rainier has a new(ish) Adams upper that is pretty much designed for 3-gun. see either http://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=2477 or http://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=2783

 

[BOL556]

Re: Best Piston AR for 3 gun???

Scar 16s, PWS,LWRC, or ACR; take your pick you cant go wrong with them. If you should go with the ACR I would highly recommend the PWS muzzle break makes a world of difference.

 

[Glen Seekins]

Re: Best Piston AR for 3 gun???

Sorry man, I read best pistol for 3 gun

I will hook you up on a AR, i have built a ton of them for 3 gun comps and they are doing quite well. Whatever you do, keep it light weight. PWS if you want a piston, otherwise just go DI. I had about 3500 rounds out of my DI gun before i cleaned it and that was AFTER the ironman shoot. I just felt bad for it. I have a kick butt comp for them, also have some new competition style handguard that will be available in September. You should ask Jessy or travis about them

 

[chainring]

Re: Best Piston AR for 3 gun???

LWRC SPR. Light and fast. Here's mine at the last Larue multigun.

 

[uscbigdawg]

Re: Best Piston AR for 3 gun???

So, we just wrapped up the Bay Area Rifle Championships here in California and 3 of the top shooters in the match as well as in the world all shot the same rifle:

1st Tactical: Keith Garcia - JP Enterprises CTR-02
Team Practical Shooting Academy, Swarovski, Akai Custom Guns, Hornday, Tactical Solutions, et. al.

1st Open: Chris Sechiatano - JP Enterprises CTR-02
Team Benelli, Nordic Components, Federal Ammunition, Irvington Arms, et. al.

1st Limited: John Bagakis - JP Enterprises CTR-02
Team Smith & Wesson, Tactical Solutions, et. al.

Nearest gas piston gun in the field was a guy shooting an AK.

While the piston rifles are the en vogue thing for the mall ninjas, there's nothing wrong with the "old" rifle. I'm a big proponent that the problem has never been the gas system with regular maintenance and proper components. My personal feeling is that the weak link in the AR platform is and always has been the magazines. Quality mags from Magpul, Fusil, Brownells, et. al. remedy this, but qualify that with advice from Kyle Lamb (Viking Tactics). Don't fall in love with your magazines. If it has a hiccup, toss it.

So...what rifle. The top AR builders in 3-Gun are these:

- JP Enterprises
- Triangle Shooting Sports
- Noveske Rifleworks
- Accurate Iron
- Salient Arms International

I will also add that Sierra Arms Corporation and Dave Lake builds some scary good AR's and no one does better triggers than him. I have JP's in all my rifles and will be converting to Dave's after shooting a couple of his rifles this weekend.

Keep it simple. Save the extra cost of a gas piston rifle for glass and ammo.

Rich

ETA: Most folks (at every skill level) run a Franken-AR. Why? Because there are just somethings better on other rifles. If you're looking for a single platform, out of the box and go. JP without question. However, ask 3-Gun competitors what they use and you'll find that the spectrum is covered and everyone has preferences on kit.

 

[jlaw973]

Re: Best Piston AR for 3 gun???

Clean a DI? What's that? Shoot a little oil on BCG and keep shooting!

 

[uscbigdawg]

Re: Best Piston AR for 3 gun???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jlaw973</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Clean a DI? What's that? Shoot a little oil on BCG and keep shooting!</div></div>

Amen brotha! I quote Derek Martin from Accuracy Speaks, "when in doubt...more lube".

Rich

 

[chainring]

Re: Best Piston AR for 3 gun???

Dam, I forgot I was a mall ninja.

Thanks for the reminder, Rich.

I've had a CTR-02, it's definitely a nice rifle, as are the Noveske rifles I've had. No flies on any of them. They got a bit sluggish after a couple hundred rounds of suppressed shooting and needed lubing/cleaning, where the LWRC just gets lubed once in a blue moon because it seems like I should. The TW25B never burns away on it, so it works for me as a suppressed platform. Unsuppressed, you can go either way.

 

[uscbigdawg]

Re: Best Piston AR for 3 gun???

Good to see some folks still have a sense of humor instead of being the typical forum 'tard that takes stuff personal.

Oh...and if I was going to get a pistol rifle, it would be a LWRC. However, since they don't support 3-Gun matches like others, I'd have to go with a SCAR. But...since I find the SCAR to be a bloated turd, I won't buy one.

Rich

 

[AZgunNUT]

Re: Best Piston AR for 3 gun???

Had a Sig 556 SWAT when they first came out and to be fair I found it to be a bit heavier than most "AR's" out there. I also didn't like the fact that it was very difficult to buy aftermarket goodies for the Sig vs the AR, which as we all know has just about any part you want made 100 different ways. I've never shot 3-gun but I do have quite a bit experience with my patrol rifle and I found that with the charging handle on the right side it takes some getting used to and you are limited in your choice of optics unless you buy an extended downward-canted charging handle. I thought the magazine release was a bit too far forward as well (I'm 6'2" and don't have small mittens by any stretch) With the charging handle being on the right side you'll also lose your sight picture when you "roll" your rifle to charge it, where as with Stoner's design you'll keep your strong hand on the fire controls AND be able to keep your sight picture during your reloads.

On the other hand it was a Sig and it chewed through anything I fed it without a single hicup...and I see that they now offer an AR clone as well.

just my .02

 

[turbo54]

Re: Best Piston AR for 3 gun???

I just *had* to have a piston AR... I had read they're heavier and not required, but I just knew I *needed* one. I got the Ruger 556 upper.

I mainly use my AR for carbine/pistol tactical shooting, and of course, its there for a SHTF scenario.

I really wish I would have listened to everyone saying you don't need a piston AR, and they are just HEAVY. They are. Also, while a DI gun will need to be cleaned a little more often than a piston one, its much easier to clean the DI gun. You yank out the BCG, wipe it, drop of oil, shove it back in.

At a recent match, there was a stage where you're support arm was "injured" and therefore not usable. We had to walk back and forth between a set of 55 gallon drums, shooting at targets, holding our carbine by our strong hand/arm only. I literally had to DNF that stage because it got to the point where I simply COULD not hold my AR up any more. Not only are the piston AR's heavier, but all that extra weight is up front, making them very front heavy.

...shouldn't have gotten a piston AR...

 

[Saito]

Re: Best Piston AR for 3 gun???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: uscbigdawg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Nearest gas gun in the field was a guy shooting an AK.
</div></div>

AK is a "piston gun" there bigdawg

 

[uscbigdawg]

Re: Best Piston AR for 3 gun???

sorry. meant to say gas piston

 

[Tribe]

Re: Best Piston AR for 3 gun???

.

 

[fmsniper]

Re: Best Piston AR for 3 gun???

I have only competed in three 3gun Comps so far locally, I won all 3 in the tactical rifle, I run a Adams Arms 16 inch 1/7 twist upper on a stag lower, I use the 75 grain for the 400 yard targets that's why I am running 1/7

 

[bengates]

Re: Best Piston AR for 3 gun???

For what its worth, I have a POF and I think it's too heavy for 3 gun. Awesome gun, but not for quick running around. Good luck!

 

[chainring]

Re: Best Piston AR for 3 gun???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Also, while a DI gun will need to be cleaned a little more often than a piston one, its much easier to clean the DI gun. You yank out the BCG, wipe it, drop of oil, shove it back in.

... </div></div>

I don't understand this one. That's pretty much what I do about once a year for my suppressed LWRCs...which is way easier than all the scrubbing and scraping to be done on the DI version. I'm not familiar with the Ruger. Perhaps you are considering the actual piston disassembly? I've only done that once on mine. It was easy, and immediately obvious that it was unnecessary. On the LWRC, that portion can just be ignored..unless you like to frolic in the surf with your rifle, maybe. Other than that, cleaning consists of rattling the carrier and bolt out, wiping the dirty TW25B off everything (including the interior of the upper receiver) and then reassembling with more TW25B. Considering it only happens about once a year, before the Larue Multigun, I might have forgotten a step or two!?

 

[K_4c]

Re: Best Piston AR for 3 gun???

LWRC hands down.... chainring, nice spr bother. I'd get one but I love my M6A3 MRE too much.

 

[Strangedays]

Re: Best Piston AR for 3 gun???

I shoot competition and I have used heavy and light guns. I like my heavier rifle and it does not make my time any slower. I just have it the way I like it and won't change anything. I also have done the one handed drills and yes it is harder but I am strong enough not to fret it. If you can handle the weight then fine if not build the rifle to what you can handle. I like POF for piston and own some but would still rather use my adjustable gas system than a piston in any match.
BTW the way my 3-gun rifle is a seekins lower with Rainier match upper with a WOA RECON barrel.

 

[BW88]

Re: Best Piston AR for 3 gun???

PWS piston system. All the benefits of a piston, none of the negatives. Read the DMack write up here on the hide.

They are light, not front heavy, and no bolt carrier tilt.

I have 500 rounds through mine without a problem. Also, it breaks down like an ar, piston comes out the breech end in seconds. Great design. Take a look.

 

[RUTGERS95]

Re: Best Piston AR for 3 gun???

if accuracy is what you want, go lwrc.....

 

[Strangedays]

Re: Best Piston AR for 3 gun???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RUTGERS95</div><div class="ubbcode-body">if accuracy is what you want, go lwrc..... </div></div>
I think that is an unfair comment. I have seen POF out shoot LWRC rifles so maybe you know something I don't?

 

[chainring]

Re: Best Piston AR for 3 gun???

Yeah, I've heard good things about POF and PWS as far as accuracy is concerned. I'm not pushing LWRC as more accurate across the board. I'm pleased with the accuracy I've had with mine, for sure. I'm not a fan of POF monster forend style, but they've sure helped that a lot with their latest trimmed down tube. PWS has a lot going for it in the compact forend they use. No real opinion on the piston system, but PWS makes good stuff. I anticipate (and DMack says) that it works and feels good. I like LWRC's coatings, slim piston assembly that stays in place, simple tombstone carrier, and regular AR feel. I've not seen any carrier tilt in any of mine. That is an outdated complaint, unless you have a cheapo system.

 

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

Re: Best Piston AR for 3 gun???

If you have DI guns and you are just looking for a new rifle shoot how about getting a SR25/AR10 rifle? No more doubts from the RO when you hit 400+ yard steel in the wind.

 

[Strangedays]

Re: Best Piston AR for 3 gun???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: FromMyColdDeadHa</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you have DI guns and you are just looking for a new rifle shoot how about getting a SR25/AR10 rifle? No more doubts from the RO when you hit 400+ yard steel in the wind. </div></div>
Because most matches this would not be allowed. Unless you want to limit yourself to heavy weight shoots. There are rules and reasons for everything not just empty comments without any idea of the sport

 

[TheTrauma]

Re: Best Piston AR for 3 gun???

LMT

 

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

Re: Best Piston AR for 3 gun???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: strangedays</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: FromMyColdDeadHa</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you have DI guns and you are just looking for a new rifle shoot how about getting a SR25/AR10 rifle? No more doubts from the RO when you hit 400+ yard steel in the wind. </div></div>
Because most matches this would not be allowed. Unless you want to limit yourself to heavy weight shoots. There are rules and reasons for everything not just empty comments without any idea of the sport

</div></div>

Are you saying 308ARs can't be used in 3-gun matches?

Here in Colorado, real men shoot real rifles.

It sounded like the OP was looking for something a little different.

 

[chainring]

Re: Best Piston AR for 3 gun???

No, it's allowed, it just kicks you into Heavy Class, which may not be what he wanted. I can't wait for my REPR and Heavy Class, myself!

 

[poison123]

Re: Best Piston AR for 3 gun???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: chainring</div><div class="ubbcode-body">No, it's allowed, it just kicks you into Heavy Class, which may not be what he wanted. I can't wait for my REPR and Heavy Class, myself!

</div></div>

Thought you only entered heavy class when you were shooting 308, 45, and 12?

 

[WRM]

Re: Best Piston AR for 3 gun???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Poison123</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: chainring</div><div class="ubbcode-body">No, it's allowed, it just kicks you into Heavy Class, which may not be what he wanted. I can't wait for my REPR and Heavy Class, myself!

</div></div>

Thought you only entered heavy class when you were shooting 308, 45, and 12? </div></div>

"Heavy Metal" class is 308 Win Carbine (20 rd max in mag), 12 gauge pump (8+1 max), and 45 ACP (10 rd max in mag). I like HM class....

However, there's nothing that says that you can't shoot 308 in "Tactical" class, and in fact, if there's not enough folks in "HM" class for a big match, they'll usually put you in "Tactical".

Cheers,

Bill

 

[TEAMSENDIT]

Re: Best Piston AR for 3 gun???

wow information overload, it seems overwhelming that i stick with the di system so thats what i will do for now. glen seekins was nice enough to offer to build me a di rifle with his parts so i think i will take him up on his offer and be done with this whole mess.

honestly i just can't wait to start shooting these matches they are so much damn fun.

 

[Strangedays]

Re: Best Piston AR for 3 gun???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Team-Send-It!!!</div><div class="ubbcode-body">wow information overload, it seems overwhelming that i stick with the di system so thats what i will do for now. glen seekins was nice enough to offer to build me a di rifle with his parts so i think i will take him up on his offer and be done with this whole mess.

honestly i just can't wait to start shooting these matches they are so much damn fun. </div></div>
Great idea. Glens stuff is par to none. I am alway being asked about my rifle due to his lower. I have both his first production lower and a gen II and let me tell you the GEN II was built for competition.

 

[MattB1911]

Re: Best Piston AR for 3 gun???

Looks like the crew got to you before I could reply...glad to see you sticking with the DI for 3-gun, it's just much smoother to shoot quickly. I've shot a few and as I recall I've only seen one shooter using a piston, and he was a Sabre Defense factory guy testing an Adams piston system out.

 

[jlaw973]

Re: Best Piston AR for 3 gun???

Don't forget to add the CMMG Midwest 3Gun Championship to your list for next year.

 

[berzerkrobot]

Re: Best Piston AR for 3 gun???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: chainring</div><div class="ubbcode-body">LWRC SPR. Light and fast. Here's mine at the last Larue multigun.

</div></div>

hows the trijicon scope? Ive been looking at the same one. Can you run it both eyes open at 1X comfertably?

Btw I have that same shotgun scabbard and have had it on my bag before like that too

 

[chainring]

Re: Best Piston AR for 3 gun???

Don't forget to post pics of your Seekins rig when it's finished - that stuff is just sexy.


I love the Trijicon TR24, and YES is a both-eyes-open optic at 1x. The green dot German #4 reticle is fast and precise. Very bright during the day, and you can tune brightness to your preference using the rotating fiber optic hood. Very nice optic, with huge and forgiving eye relief. Now if they would just make a 1-6 power version!

 

[berzerkrobot]

Re: Best Piston AR for 3 gun???

Very good to hear, thanks Chainring. the crappy 1-4 I have now requires perfect cheekweld at all time or its way off

 

[TEAMSENDIT]

Re: Best Piston AR for 3 gun???

I will admit heavy metal class looks crazy fun but expensive as hell on the ammo cost.

 

[RBros]

Re: Best Piston AR for 3 gun???

There will definitely be a slight change in ready made 3 gun AR's this fall. We will be building one that is ready to go out of the box with tuned triggers, entirely new designed uppers and hand gaurds, premium barrels. Lots of input from top shooters in the game on this one. Will definitely be a fun project for sure.

 

[Rob01]

Re: Best Piston AR for 3 gun???

I use my POF .223. I really like the rifle alot. So does my team mate Nomad. Super accurate and reliable. Unfortunately in my state I can't use the lighter retractable stocks so I use a PRS.

http://www.youtube.com/user/teamblasterusa#p/u/36/QUF3QlPBQhE

 

[chainring]

Re: Best Piston AR for 3 gun???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Team-Send-It!!!</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I will admit heavy metal class looks crazy fun but expensive as hell on the ammo cost. </div></div>

Yeah, but you are only shooting half as many rounds on paper!

Well, if you are confident in your hits...me, not so much.