Gunsmithing Best Video on Barreling & Chambering on the web!

#3
I love the $10 grizzly indicator on the outside of the barrel! Why the hell did I buy an Interapid? After all this guy is a "Certified Master gunsmith" so i'm sure his way is the right way...

Mr. Green Co-starred in the National Geographic program "Lords of War" as their "firearms expert" as well

See 1:45 on video lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MC9XWrTW1kk
 
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#4
I have more teeth than he does!! I must be a better gunsmith! I have never seen anyone not indicated from a bore pin (plug gage). Why the hell would you in indicate off the out side of the barrel and not the bore? He doesn't even know that it's a "live pilot" finisher!
 
#7
slayer_21420 said:
I love the $10 grizzly indicator on the outside of the barrel! Why the hell did I buy an Interapid? After all this guy is a "Certified Master gunsmith" so i'm sure his way is the right way...

Mr. Green Co-starred in the National Geographic program "Lords of War" as their "firearms expert" as well

See 1:45 on video lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MC9XWrTW1kk
Click to expand...


All my .001" indicators are cheap Fowlers. WGAF what brand it is? He said he had the bore dialed in concentric and was showing that the OD had runout, in this case less than one thou.

Guess I'm off to check out all the chambering technique youtube videos from the posters in this thread to make sure there are to my standards. I'll be back with my reviews and opinions on your personal appearance shortly....
 
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#8
Come on, you guys know that your standards, techniques, and equipment are not up to speed to build Hunt'n Rifles!

People wonder why I will only use a well known precision rifle builder, versus the local low bid builders!

To each their own.
 
#9
There are some small unknown "hobby" builders that do work that rivals or bests even the top commercial builders. It all depends who the guy is drilling the hole.
 
#15
Ledzep said:
Factory Remington barrels aren't indicated at all.
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Yeah I'm just making a joke. I've come to believe after chambering about 6 rifles as a hobbyist that if you use quality components the rifles are going to shoot great, even if your a toothless hillbilly on a lathe with caveman techniques (another joke). I'm pretty sure using my Interapid indicators and dialing down to .0001 while suffering from mild OCD isn't really necessary. But it does make me feel good, and sound really smart to friends:)
 
#17
300sniper said:
All my .001" indicators are cheap Fowlers. WGAF what brand it is? He said he had the bore dialed in concentric and was showing that the OD had runout, in this case less than one thou.

Guess I'm off to check out all the chambering technique youtube videos from the posters in this thread to make sure there are to my standards. I'll be back with my reviews and opinions on your personal appearance shortly....
Click to expand...

Let me start off saying that I normally wouldn't knock another mans technique, nor do I give a f*** what he looks or talks like. There are many ways to skin this cat with excellent results, this whole process however just screams WRONG. As far as i'm concerned anyone that posts a video online is leaving it open to criticism.

Watch his other videos on threading a barrel blank, then tell me that you'd be happy to have him work on your stuff.

A quote from one of these other videos went something like this- "These threads look really ruff and bad, but thats ok because the action still screws on and its getting late. When yer doin' this gunsmiffin' thing time is money, so there's no time to do a perfect job"

Oh and I actually have one of those $10 Grizzly indicators and its great for roughing in and setting up non critical parts. In this video he gives no reason to think that he's doing anything but dialing in the OD of the barrel he has hanging a mile outside of the 4 jaw that is clamped directly on the barrel.

I wish him nothing but success in his business, but posting things like this as a promotion to your service isn't exactly going to help the matter.
 
#19
skkeeter said:
I can dial it to .0000 when I hand turn the chuck. But if I engage the lathe I end up with .0001 - .0003" of slop. I'm in the process of looking for a higher quality lathe.
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Do you really think you can honestly get it to "0" ?

I don't know what all this guy did behind the scenes but my only question is does it shoot? I dont care if he reamed it with a black and decker drill if it shoots as good as I want it too then its good....lol.
 
#20
He said his shop name and location in the video. Maybe instead of bringing this here, why not contact him directly and let him know he's doing it wrong. Maybe inform him that he should recall all the rifles he's fit barrels to because they were not done correctly.
 
#25
LRShooter101 said:
Watch videos like this, and you will appreciate what is going on in them, versus what was shown above.



I am sure that a competent professional builder can get into all of the details if needed.
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What is the clearance between that rod's bushing and the bore? What is the clearance between that rod and the bushing? What is the distance between the bushing end of the rod and the DTI? How straight is the rod? When was the straightness of the rod last checked? Is the absolute end of the bore dead nuts perpendicular to the tapered rod? Is the bullet more influenced by the bore or the grooves of the barrel? Is the rod bushing on the bore or the grooves of the barrel?

I'm not bagging on the video you linked, but realize there are flaws in EVERY barrel fitting technique. One thing I am certain of, a deer will be just as dead if it was shot from a rifle chambered in the method in the video the OP posted or in the video you posted.
 
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#26
I really liked George's videos wish he would of made a dvd set. Something like (barrel blank to finished rifle) with all the little details that you really do need to know.
Oh well we got youtube right.
 
#27
300sniper said:
What is the clearance between that rod's bushing and the bore? What is the clearance between that rod and the bushing? What is the distance between the bushing end of the rod and the DTI? How straight is the rod? When was the straightness of the rod last checked? Is the absolute end of the bore dead nuts perpendicular to the tapered rod? Is the bullet more influenced by the bore or the grooves of the barrel? Is the rod bushing on the bore or the grooves of the barrel?

I'm not bagging on the video you linked, but realize there are flaws in EVERY barrel fitting technique. One thing I am certain of, a deer will be just as dead if it was shot from a rifle chambered in the method in the video the OP posted or in the video you posted.
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Yes you would be correct, HOWEVER, I am willing to bet that if a machinist is going after runout that is well below .001, that they are going to address all of the issues that you mentioned above to the best of their abilities. On the other hand, if you are happy with a cheap single .001 indicator running on the outside of the barrel, then I am willing to bet that your standards are not exactly the same.

THE DEVIL IS IN THE DETAILS, as you pointed out with a very long list of them!

I could probably chamber a rifle barrel in my garage that I could kill a deer with, and I have no professional level of equipment or training. That being the case, I am not going to be touting myself as a "certified master gunsmith", and I am not going to be making videos and posting them on Youtube.

When uneducated/inexperienced/new shooters see someone calling themselves a "certified master gunsmith", then many of them will assume that person has to be 100% legit, and they are going to build them the best possible rifle a gunsmith can make.

Per many comments above, and not only about the chambering video, but other videos he posted on Youtube, this gunsmith is not working at the highest possible levels, and I am pretty sure that many gunsmiths/machinist would not call what he is doing "master level" anything.

I am not about "bashing this builder", I am about trying to educate shooters on investigating/understanding who is building their rifle, and figuring out what the actual qualifications, capabilities, and results will be for any gunsmith that they might consider using?

Sorry, but I am NOT going to pay a Gunsmith to build me a "Minute of Deer" rifle, I am going to pay them to build a rifle to the highest possible standards (taking into consideration the build materials they start with). If I am happy with a "Minute of Deer" rifle, then I am just going to go grab a factory rifle off the shelf.

Per my first post, "Different Strokes for Different Folks".

I would second the comment about getting some of the best builders in the industry together to do a video for new shooters so they would be well educated when it comes to having a custom rifle built. Just look at the debacle that happened with Tactical Rifles!
 
#28
LRShooter101 said:
Yes you would be correct, HOWEVER, I am willing to bet that if a machinist is going after runout that is well below .001, that they are going to address all of the issues that you mentioned above to the best of their abilities. On the other hand, if you are happy with a cheap single .001 indicator running on the outside of the barrel, then I am willing to bet that your standards are not exactly the same.

THE DEVIL IS IN THE DETAILS, as you pointed out with a very long list of them!

I could probably chamber a rifle barrel in my garage that I could kill a deer with, and I have no professional level of equipment or training. That being the case, I am not going to be touting myself as a "certified master gunsmith", and I am not going to be making videos and posting them on Youtube.

When uneducated/inexperienced/new shooters see someone calling themselves a "certified master gunsmith", then many of them will assume that person has to be 100% legit, and they are going to build them the best possible rifle a gunsmith can make.

Per many comments above, and not only about the chambering video, but other videos he posted on Youtube, this gunsmith is not working at the highest possible levels, and I am pretty sure that many gunsmiths/machinist would not call what he is doing "master level" anything.

I am not about "bashing this builder", I am about trying to educate shooters on investigating/understanding who is building their rifle, and figuring out what the actual qualifications, capabilities, and results will be for any gunsmith that they might consider using?

Sorry, but I am NOT going to pay a Gunsmith to build me a "Minute of Deer" rifle, I am going to pay them to build a rifle to the highest possible standards (taking into consideration the build materials they start with). If I am happy with a "Minute of Deer" rifle, then I am just going to go grab a factory rifle off the shelf.

Per my first post, "Different Strokes for Different Folks".

I would second the comment about getting some of the best builders in the industry together to do a video for new shooters so they would be well educated when it comes to having a custom rifle built. Just look at the debacle that happened with Tactical Rifles!
Click to expand...


Realize there is a difference between a rifle builder and a gunsmith. Many of the people that post in this forum are not what I would consider gunsmiths. Sure, fitting and chambering a barrel and bedding stock is gunsmithing but does not make one a gunsmith. Gunsmith needs to be able to work on every type of firearm that comes in the door. There is going to be a different mentality between a gunsmith and a precision rifle builder.

Keep in mind, the maker of the video did not post it on a website that gravitates toward precision rifles, it was brought here. I'm not going to watch it again but I am pretty sure he never claimed in the video that it was a precision rifle. There were obvious steps left out. He very well may have used the exact same rod method shown in the video you linked. Maybe he didn't. I don't know.

If I wanted a high end trophy truck built, I wouldn't go to the local mechanic. I'd go to a shop that specializes in building trophy trucks.

Maybe this is more accurate, if you were on a performance car forum, would you bring a video to it showing an everyday mechanic putting a new stock engine in a 1984 Toyota Corolla station wagon, in an attempt to discredit him?
 
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#29
300sniper said:
Realize there is a difference between a rifle builder and a gunsmith. Many of the people that post in this forum are not what I would consider gunsmiths. Sure, fitting and chambering a barrel and bedding stock is gunsmithing but does not make one a gunsmith. Gunsmith needs to be able to work on every type of firearm that comes in the door. There is going to be a different mentality between a gunsmith and a precision rifle builder.

Keep in mind, the maker of the video did not post it on a website that gravitates toward precision rifles, it was brought here. I'm not going to watch it again but I am pretty sure he never claimed in the video that it was a precision rifle. There were obvious steps left out. He very well may have used the exact same rod method shown in the video you linked. Maybe he didn't. I don't know.

If I wanted a high end trophy truck built, I wouldn't go to the local mechanic. I'd go to a shop that specializes in building trophy trucks.

Maybe this is more accurate, if you were on a performance car forum, would you bring a video to it showing an everyday mechanic putting a new stock engine in a 1984 Toyota Corolla station wagon, in an attempt to discredit him?
Click to expand...

This is kinda how I feel. Not the way I build a gun but cut the guy some slack.
 
#30
Watch videos like this, and you will appreciate what is going on in them, versus what was shown above.



I am sure that a competent professional builder can get into all of the details if needed.



I guess the video didn't copy and paste, no matter. I wouldn't even dial a barrel in with a range rod. why indicate everything that your going to be cutting away. Doesn't make any since. I indicate the throat and 2 inches in front of the throat. everything behind the throat will be true as well once I bore it all away.
Direct indicating the bore or a grizzly rod is my preferred methods. I have chambered enough barrels now that have won NBRSA 2 gun matches to know my methods works. Some folks here will balk at the short range benchrest game, but that's simply because they don't understand the level of accuracy it take to win or simply they have never done it. I guess my point is this. If a barrel I chambered is good enough to win in a benchrest match, its good enough for anything.
The fella in the first video is a moron and its sad to think he actually charges money for his work. He is lucky no one has been hurt yet with one of his so called barrel jobs. Lee

I also agree with 300sniper. I am by no means a gunsmith, but barrel jobs I understand. I think maybe its best to specialize in one or two trades rather than trying to do it all. I think the craftsman that focuses on one or two trades will do the better job. Just my opinion!
 
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#31
I think it doesn't matter as much as some people think it does. At some point 60,000 PSI overcomes a miniscule angular offset in the chamber vs. bore.
 
#34
Ledzep said:
I think it doesn't matter as much as some people think it does. At some point 60,000 PSI overcomes a miniscule angular offset in the chamber vs. bore.
Click to expand...


Sometimes, i feel at times we over think just about anything we are involved in. I have never seen a chart where this amount of runout will give you this group, this amount of headspace will give you this group, this amount of lug contact will give you this, this amount of frosted fucking mini-wheats in the morning will affect it by ____ this much. It all adds up, this is why we try to eliminate as much of the "variables" as we can while building/assembling these rifles. However this $3000-$5000 dollar rifle with the pain staking effort of doing it at our absolute best, may not be for everybody. That video shown on here, will be made fun of, that video on youtube to the overwhelmingly "general firearms" knowledge group will seem legitimate and for the most part may very well work for the individuals he is catering to. If everything he built/worked on was truly as bad as we seem to make it out to be here, then he most certainly would run out of business before he could worry about videos. My opinion now, if you have a question or advice for the gentleman in the video maybe bring it up, otherwise maybe we could all go work on practicing something in our trade to make us better, those of us that are not already perfect anyway.
 
#35
I Feel Sorry for Mr CMGS

300sniper said:
He said his shop name and location in the video. Maybe instead of bringing this here, why not contact him directly and let him know he's doing it wrong. Maybe inform him that he should recall all the rifles he's fit barrels to because they were not done correctly.
Click to expand...

He is trying hard just doesn't really know what he is doing, but i can say that now I have just about seen it all after 42 two years in the gun business.
 
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