Best way to adjust to MIL thinking from MOA thinking

[TreeGuy201]

@checkmate101 There's a lot of good advice regarding using your reticle to adjust from shot to shot. But you asked about converting between mils and moa. You sound like a normal person, so just keep it real for your normal range environment. Yes, you need to know how to convert both to linear. You may not use it a lot, but know the calcs. You wouldn't pass the simple qualifying test at the longer ranges at our club if you can't. And unless you are a shooting to a high level or you're shooting varied distances, use 1"@100yd for an moa, and 3.6" @ 100yd per mil, just like you see in damn near every thread on the web, and yes even here on SH. I'm sorry, but our qualifying officers would consider you high strung if you started punching 1.047" into your calculator when they quiz you on linear movements under 10moa. And they are good shooters. The only time that extra .047" matters is adjusting out large deviations between POI and POA, like when shooting a different distance than your sight in, or if you are shooting to a high level. Once sighted at your shooting distance and you had to know the linear for smallish adjustments, then use the above calcs. Oh, and this thread is full of miscaculations, just FYI. Keep it real.

And, just in case you haven't absorbed all the chatter about about mil being 1/1000th, etc. They're referring to milliradian, but no ones offered up that it's derived from the arc length formula. Look THAT up and hopefully that will help you understand the exact connection between mils, moa, and linear. Man, forget all the banter and just go right to the source.

 

[_Raining]

Yes, you need to know how to convert both to linear.

Do you though. Are you playing a game where you are forced to use your reticle to get distance? Or are you shooting at a creature that has the technology to detect your LRF? If not, you don't need any linear measurement other then distance to target. You just type in the fkn distance in the ballistic calc and turn the turret to match what it says and if you miss you just measure it with the reticle and hold off that amount.

 

[Dthomas3523]

@checkmate101 There's a lot of good advice regarding using your reticle to adjust from shot to shot. But you asked about converting between mils and moa. You sound like a normal person, so just keep it real for your normal range environment. Yes, you need to know how to convert both to linear. You may not use it a lot, but know the calcs. You wouldn't pass the simple qualifying test at the longer ranges at our club if you can't. And unless you are a shooting to a high level or you're shooting varied distances, use 1"@100yd for an moa, and 3.6" @ 100yd per mil, just like you see in damn near every thread on the web, and yes even here on SH. I'm sorry, but our qualifying officers would consider you high strung if you started punching 1.047" into your calculator when they quiz you on linear movements under 10moa. And they are good shooters. The only time that extra .047" matters is adjusting out large deviations between POI and POA, like when shooting a different distance than your sight in, or if you are shooting to a high level. Once sighted at your shooting distance and you had to know the linear for smallish adjustments, then use the above calcs. Oh, and this thread is full of miscaculations, just FYI. Keep it real.

And, just in case you haven't absorbed all the chatter about about mil being 1/1000th, etc. They're referring to milliradian, but no ones offered up that it's derived from the arc length formula. Look THAT up and hopefully that will help you understand the exact connection between mils, moa, and linear. Man, forget all the banter and just go right to the source.

Your club is apparently not educated properly if you need to be able to come up with linear values.

And they are doubly uneducated if they want you to come up with a value, but then don’t like when you use the actual value of 1.047.

So, they want you to know it, but not really know it.

I need to post a screenshot of your post in the “dumbest things ever been told” thread.

 

[Dthomas3523]

“The only time it matters is when shooting a different distance than your sight in”

Uh, yea. That’s like all the time.

 

[Dthomas3523]

@308pirate he came back and posted again.

Also, @TheGerman @Bender

 

[TheGerman]

 

[2aBaC̶a̶]

For a simple explanation go here.

Angular Size - ShotStat

ballistipedia.com

 

[Deleted member 10043]

You get 10 cents more per hour if you're bilingual at the range.

 

[Bender]

@checkmate101 There's a lot of good advice regarding using your reticle to adjust from shot to shot. But you asked about converting between mils and moa. You sound like a normal person, so just keep it real for your normal range environment. Yes, you need to know how to convert both to linear. You may not use it a lot, but know the calcs. You wouldn't pass the simple qualifying test at the longer ranges at our club if you can't. And unless you are a shooting to a high level or you're shooting varied distances, use 1"@100yd for an moa, and 3.6" @ 100yd per mil, just like you see in damn near every thread on the web, and yes even here on SH. I'm sorry, but our qualifying officers would consider you high strung if you started punching 1.047" into your calculator when they quiz you on linear movements under 10moa. And they are good shooters. The only time that extra .047" matters is adjusting out large deviations between POI and POA, like when shooting a different distance than your sight in, or if you are shooting to a high level. Once sighted at your shooting distance and you had to know the linear for smallish adjustments, then use the above calcs. Oh, and this thread is full of miscaculations, just FYI. Keep it real.

And, just in case you haven't absorbed all the chatter about about mil being 1/1000th, etc. They're referring to milliradian, but no ones offered up that it's derived from the arc length formula. Look THAT up and hopefully that will help you understand the exact connection between mils, moa, and linear. Man, forget all the banter and just go right to the source.

Whut.....

 

[checkmate101]

Thanks for all the replies everyone. There is some great info here, even if certain aspects got derailed. Part of this is understanding how to judge reputable information. Also, it is always good to have some laughs along the way. cheers.

 

[308pirate]

@checkmate101 There's a lot of good advice regarding using your reticle to adjust from shot to shot. But you asked about converting between mils and moa. You sound like a normal person, so just keep it real for your normal range environment. Yes, you need to know how to convert both to linear. You may not use it a lot, but know the calcs. You wouldn't pass the simple qualifying test at the longer ranges at our club if you can't. And unless you are a shooting to a high level or you're shooting varied distances, use 1"@100yd for an moa, and 3.6" @ 100yd per mil, just like you see in damn near every thread on the web, and yes even here on SH. I'm sorry, but our qualifying officers would consider you high strung if you started punching 1.047" into your calculator when they quiz you on linear movements under 10moa. And they are good shooters. The only time that extra .047" matters is adjusting out large deviations between POI and POA, like when shooting a different distance than your sight in, or if you are shooting to a high level. Once sighted at your shooting distance and you had to know the linear for smallish adjustments, then use the above calcs. Oh, and this thread is full of miscaculations, just FYI. Keep it real.

And, just in case you haven't absorbed all the chatter about about mil being 1/1000th, etc. They're referring to milliradian, but no ones offered up that it's derived from the arc length formula. Look THAT up and hopefully that will help you understand the exact connection between mils, moa, and linear. Man, forget all the banter and just go right to the source.

LOL more stupid shit

Your range officers are idiots and would get laughed out of any group of long range shooters I know of.

 

[1moaoff]

Easy!
Substitute the abbreviation MIL for MOA.

Done!

 

[PracticalTactical]

I've had the same problem as the Op, and have struggled internally over this.

What I've found is that it's easy if you surrender all you know and hold dear, to Kestrel or Garmin. But then you become just like most guys who don't know what to wear today unless the AB App tells you.

It's a hard pill to swallow as it forces reliance upon the same device I pride myself in not really needing. All just to conform to the typical PRS shooter.

I'm not sure if that helps, but it's the best I got.

The next problem is that you might just as well change all your scopes to Mils, and that gets expensive fast.

For all the trouble, my advice is don't change, screw everyone else, and shoot the scope you like and understand.

 

[Dthomas3523]

It ain’t that hard guys. There’s literally nothing needed.

Mils and Moa are virtually the same and just a unit.

7.5 mils or 25.75 moa. Same shit.

.3 mil or 1moa (close) same shit.

Most rifles are in the .8-1mil area at 300 yds and 3moa.

Both are extremely simple and you should be able to use both. If not, you’re doing it wrong and over complicating shit.

For quick math between the two in the field, if you can multiply and divide by 3, you can speak and interpret both. With a slight leftover you have to account for after 600yds.

No kestrel or software needed.

 

[Steel head]

Easy!
Substitute the abbreviation MIL for MOA.

Done!

 

[Steel head]

I've had the same problem as the Op, and have struggled internally over this.

What I've found is that it's easy if you surrender all you know and hold dear, to Kestrel or Garmin. But then you become just like most guys who don't know what to wear today unless the AB App tells you.

It's a hard pill to swallow as it forces reliance upon the same device I pride myself in not really needing. All just to conform to the typical PRS shooter.

I'm not sure if that helps, but it's the best I got.

The next problem is that you might just as well change all your scopes to Mils, and that gets expensive fast.

For all the trouble, my advice is don't change, screw everyone else, and shoot the scope you like and understand.

 

[2aBaC̶a̶]

If you've turned wrenches and had to use both SAE and Metric. 13mm or 1/2"... 2 different systems can accomplish the same goal.

Only dont think of MOA and Mils as linear measurements rather different scales that you can use to solve for x

 

[Racer88]

If you've turned wrenches and had to use both SAE and Metric. 13mm or 1/2"... 2 different systems can accomplish the same goal.

Only dont think of MOA and Mils as linear measurements rather different scales that you can use to solve for x

Yep. If I'm working on a Toyota, and I have a metric socket set, I don't need to know what a 14-mm bolt converts to in SAE units. Don't care what it converts to.

Likewise, if my reticle is MOA and my turrets are MOA, who cares about any other units of measure? And, the linear equivalent is irrelevant in the context of POA / POI corrections.

I don't have a MIL scope. But, I know that if someone put one in my hands, there would be no "conversion" or adaptation period. It's the same thing! I would instantly know what to do and how to do it.... because it's the same thing.

If I'm in a car with a KPH speedometer, driving in a country with speed limit signs in KPH, I don't care what it means in MPH. No need for conversion.

 

[PracticalTactical]

OK quick... how many MPH is 87 KMS? How about 36 KMS or 113 KMS.

Don't Google it... off the top of your head...

You don't know do ya.

That's the problem.

in the middle of your 90 second 12 shot relay ... Do that math 12 times, in the back of your head while trying to hit the plates and make clean movements in the right order.

It's called cognitive overload and it's counter productive.

Once you've internalized the unit of measurement and the cause and effect relationships over 40 years, translating from one to the other just takes mental energy from more important things.

Streamlining the thought process is productive. Translating is not.

If you aren't already familiar with one format or the other, then its easy. If you've been shooting long range for a long time, then the change is hard.

If you just do exactly what your AB Ap says to do, (like many guys do) then it's easy.

 

[Dthomas3523]

I’d like to prove a point about moa and mil.

To prove my point, I’d like you to translate this cuneiform text. It is relevant to the conversation.

Also, you don’t need units of linear measure to understand this stuff. You’ve been doing it wrong for 40 years.

You’re again confusing 40 years worth of improper repetition for 40 years of experience.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Also, mils to moa goes like this in your head:

You missed by 3 moa. Ok, that’s 3x3=9. I’m less than 600 yds. So 9.

You missed by 1 mil. Ok, that’s 10/3=3 r1. That’s 3moa.

All that, without googling. Holy shit.

My dope is 7.7 mil. 75/3=25r2. I’m past 600? Yep. Ok that’s 26 moa.

voila. Field math. Sans google.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Your dope is 26moa. 26x3=78. Past 600. Minus 1. 77. 77 = 7.7 mils.

Boom.

 

[Dthomas3523]

It’s like learning a second language as an adult.

At first, yes, you have to always go back to your native language. But once you have the basics, you should be forgetting your native language when using the non native.

If someone speaks to you in your secondary language, you don’t stop and think “ok, he said bano, that that’s bathroom. He also said donde which is where”. You know what he said immediately without translating.

That’s because your brain doesn’t think subconsciously in a language. It works in the abstract. You assign the language consciously and slow yourself down.

Numbers however are universal. So small amount of math will be necessary. But when someone gives you a number in mils or moa, you shouldn’t be thinking:

“ok, so an moa is 1.047 at 100 and a mil is 3.6”

You just say “oh, let me apply this simple math to whichever one I need”


Or

Since someone asked the dumb question of km/mph. You would never need to know that conversion on the fly. Speedometers are in both.

So, if you know you’re going into a cross language situation (mil and moa mixed) you should have a conversion chart handy.

Once again, impractically untactical weighs in.

 

[PracticalTactical]

To what end?

I already speak English and don't want to or need to learn French... unless she's really hot!

 

[wade2big]

I don’t understand the argument. Shoot the numbers but If you want to know a linear measurement at a particular distance such as drop or wind drift in inches per mph then so be it.

You may see that for example at 725 yards I hit .3 mil low. Your correction would be of course add in .3 and write it down for your records or shoot it. If you so happen to want to know the measurement then do quick math at 7-8” low. This coversion is not needed to shoot by any means and could complicate things for new shooters learning to shoot the numbers, but who gives a damn if someone wants to know it or not.

 

[2aBaC̶a̶]

Fuck all that math shit, my scope has a built in ruler and adjustment knobs that correspond. Miss by 1 adjust by 1.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Fuck all that math shit, my scope has a built in ruler and adjustment knobs that correspond. Miss by 1 adjust by 1.

I’m just saying if someone yells at you, “2 moa or 27moa” it ain’t the end of the world.

 

[2aBaC̶a̶]

I’m just saying if someone yells at you, “2 moa or 27moa” it ain’t the end of the world.

If someone yells at me moa anything, I'm looking at them crazy and asking them to convert that to potato.

 

[Racer88]

Fuck all that math shit, my scope has a built in ruler and adjustment knobs that correspond. Miss by 1 adjust by 1.

Perfectly put. And, in far fewer words! The letters that come after the "1" don't matter.

 

[Racer88]

If someone yells at me moa anything, I'm looking at them crazy and asking them to convert that to potato.

 

[1moaoff]

OK quick... how many MPH is 87 KMS? How about 36 KMS or 113 KMS.

Don't Google it... off the top of your head...

You don't know do ya.

That's the problem.

in the middle of your 90 second 12 shot relay ... Do that math 12 times, in the back of your head while trying to hit the plates and make clean movements in the right order.

It's called cognitive overload and it's counter productive.

Once you've internalized the unit of measurement and the cause and effect relationships over 40 years, translating from one to the other just takes mental energy from more important things.

Streamlining the thought process is productive. Translating is not.

If you aren't already familiar with one format or the other, then its easy. If you've been shooting long range for a long time, then the change is hard.

If you just do exactly what your AB Ap says to do, (like many guys do) then it's easy.

Depending on what we are applying your example too it doesnt matter.
Plug range into calculator or look at past dope. Use correct drop in either mls or moa.

The only time it sucks is using moa scope when figuring in MLS or vice versa.

Why would u need to do that much math that fast???

 

[1moaoff]

Fuck all that math shit, my scope has a built in ruler and adjustment knobs that correspond. Miss by 1 adjust by 1.

I just looked in my scope. I took off the caps but I cant find a ruler. I'm sure she is wrong but my wife said the ruler is the little marks on the glass thing. Is she right? She cant be because 16 isnt highlighted for studs.

 

[2aBaC̶a̶]

I just looked in my scope. I took off the caps but I cant find a ruler. I'm sure she is wrong but my wife said the ruler is the little marks on the glass thing. Is she right? She cant be because 16 isnt highlighted for studs.

Can someone interpret this?

 

[seansmd]

Can someone interpret this?

I believe it was an attempted joke about ruler or tape measure in the scope

 

[1moaoff]

Yes it was a joke..... the reticle is the ruler... no matter mil or moa...

 

[Steel head]

Yes it was a joke..... the reticle is the ruler... no matter mil or moa...

Does that mean the dials are calibrated ruler movers?

 

[1moaoff]

Does that mean the dials are calibrated ruler movers?

Pretty much

 

[supercorndogs]

If you are using one, and think you need to adjust your thinking to use the other. You are using the one you have wrong.