Between three rifles

[OverWatching]

Hi all,
Very long time reader, first time posting though. I work with a sniper rifle on a daily basis and could use some advice please. My company fields teams around the country and we use a combination of old AIAWs and the DT SRS. I'm moving everyone to 6.5CM and we want a newer multi-cal rifle to make life in the field easier. I've narrowed it down to three rifles, and please only these three, all of my teams have already commented and I have my opinions. We are looking at the AI AXMC, the Cadex Kraken and the Desert Tech SRS A2. We all shoot the bullpup well so that's not a factor. I am stuck though and need to place my order at SHOT Show in a few days. I could use some advice for our new platform.

 

[THEIS]

Hi,

Can you give any more details as to how and what in regards to the daily usage of the rifles are to be?

LEO Demo Team?
LEO Training Team?
Corporate "Bonding" events?
Life or Death real life events?
Dirt and Grind or Square range?

Sincerely,
Theis

 

[OverWatching]

Good question. We provide security support for high threat individuals from the government, corporate and religious sectors. We spend our time mostly high-angle and between 100-600 yards. The DT SRS was a favorite as it "flagged" less from a roof top due to our typical AO. We are using tripods more though these days. Our areas vary from clean and warm inside, to hot and sandy outside, but usually inside the US.

 

[b6graham]

Good question. We provide security support for high threat individuals from the government, corporate and religious sectors. We spend our time mostly high-angle and between 100-600 yards. The DT SRS was a favorite as it "flagged" less from a roof top due to our typical AO. We are using tripods more though these days. Our areas carry from clean and warm inside, to hot and sandy outside, but usually inside the US.

seems like the obvious option then

don't think you could go wrong with any of those options, but the bullpup offers your teams something the others cant so if thats enough of a reason to choose it over an AI AX (i'd skip the AXMC if only going 6.5 Creed and not doing a 300 Norma/PRC etc).

 

[Eric32]

I would throw out the idea of a 16" AI AT as well, cost effective and with a 5" inch can pretty compact.

The new DT covert looks like a good fit as well

 

[OverWatching]

We do like the bullpup, if that was the only factor this would be easy. We are not fans of the grip and it can't be changed. It's also hard to shoot left handed if you need to, granted that's minor issue in general. Also a lot of our guys are just used to a standard format. As far as a non-MC, we are just doing it for easy barrel swaps in the field. Real rifles get dropped and I can't always have a full spare for them. I realize this might be an exercise in futility. Most of the threads like this end up with "they are all good, go with what you like." However I have been going back and forth enough I thought I'd see if the shooters here had an opinion I hadn't thought of.

 

[THEIS]

Hi,

I would have Mile High build me some AXMC with 16-18" barrels so you can get a little reduction in OAL of weapon system.
If the proper building is utilized you could still be far enough off the edge/window without having to get such steep angles and still have field of view you need.

Sincerely,
Theis

 

[doctordoctor]

Id vote SRS A2. But I m bias as I love my A1. I have a non bullpup builds which I love but my go to is always my DT SRS. I think the Covert fits your needs

 

[OverWatching]

Hi,

I would have Mile High build me some AXMC with 16-18" barrels so you can get a little reduction in OAL of weapon system.
If the proper building is utilized you could still be far enough off the edge/window without having to get such steep angles and still have field of view you need.

Sincerely,
Theis

We went with the 6.5 so we can use shorter barrels, so your idea is perfect. Why the AI over the Kraken though?

 

[THEIS]

Hi,

Good question.
Does Cadex have a repair/warranty facility in the USA? I know they have a USA based "location" but is it a repair/warranty facility?

We know Accuracy International does and that would be same place building your shorter barreled MCs

Sincerely,
Theis

 

[Bkultra]

One big advantage the AXMC has is the barrels don't require an extension. You won't have to salvage one from an old barrel when it comes time to replace the barrel.

 

[brianf]

having both and shooting them regularly, i would go with the AI everyday and twice on sunday (unless length is a HUGE factor).

the dt:
because this is possibly life and death situation, the feeding is the biggest concern for me
does not feed nearly as well, if you run the bolt slow it hangs up at times
the magazines are a joke in comparison, the AI are the industry standard for a reason
if the need arises to drop a round in the chamber more often that not it gets hung up.
If you drop one in a run it hard ive had the bullet get pushed in

they are both equals in accuracy
they both have enough rail space
triggers are good enough, these are not bench guns

this being a business you may already have spares, but if not AI is available everywhere on the internet.
something goes down you can overnight barrels, triggers, rails etc

as far as AI over kraken, this is a business opinion..
you should outfit your company with like equipment when possible that also has longevity and adequate spares several years down the road.

 

[MK20]

I would say it depends on how mobile your PSD stuff is. If you are doing lots of in and out of cars I MIGHT go with the Desert Tech just for length. I would probably go for an AI though. Sounds like you won’t be humping it so weight isn’t a huge problem.
Flagging off bldgs shouldn’t be an issue with either if set up right.

 

[THEIS]

Good question. We provide security support for high threat individuals from the government, corporate and religious sectors. Our areas vary from clean and warm inside, to hot and sandy outside, but usually inside the US.

Hi,

Ok since we got the rifle out of the way lol...

Company name?
You in the SAM database?
Cage Code?

Sincerely,
Theis

 

[Bender]

Do you need plate a carrier sewn into your backpack?

 

[OverWatching]

having both and shooting them regularly, i would go with the AI everyday and twice on sunday (unless length is a HUGE factor).

the dt:
because this is possibly life and death situation, the feeding is the biggest concern for me
does not feed nearly as well, if you run the bolt slow it hangs up at times
the magazines are a joke in comparison, the AI are the industry standard for a reason
if the need arises to drop a round in the chamber more often that not it gets hung up.
If you drop one in a run it hard ive had the bullet get pushed in

they are both equals in accuracy
they both have enough rail space
triggers are good enough, these are not bench guns

this being a business you may already have spares, but if not AI is available everywhere on the internet.
something goes down you can overnight barrels, triggers, rails etc

as far as AI over kraken, this is a business opinion..
you should outfit your company with like equipment when possible that also has longevity and adequate spares several years down the road.

Brian, awesome response, thank you for thinking it through. From a business side the biggest plus for the Kraken is they are $2.5K less expensive than the AI. I also love the chassis. For the AI you are right we can keep our mags, but the rest becomes useless on the new models. Our DTs do have an advantage as the barrels and bolts transfer over. We have also noticed the feeding issues on the DT but I suspect some of that is our springs may need replacing. The first part of your argument had me convinced to go AI....then the second part had me back at DT.

 

[OverWatching]

Hi,

Ok since we got the rifle out of the way lol...

Company name?
You in the SAM database?
Cage Code?

Sincerely,
Theis

OverWatch Strategies and we are in the SAM database but we don't bid on SAM contracts. We are hired privately.

 

[THEIS]

Hi,

This one? http://www.overwatch.es/

Sincerely,
Theis

 

[brianf]

Business plan/marketing , AI.

Nothing better than saying you are using current state of the art military weapons fielded by xxx number of countries etc. that was in the top 3 of rifles chosen by the us military.

A little better than saying that we use XYZ company...but it’s just as capable of a system.

Thought decisions choosing between Ferrari and Lamborghini

 

[OverWatching]

Hi,

This one? http://www.overwatch.es/

Sincerely,
Theis

That is us, I head up the Area Denial Unit. You can also get there from www.overwatching.com, hence my member "name."

 

[OverWatching]

Business plan/marketing , AI.

Nothing better than saying you are using current state of the art military weapons fielded by xxx number of countries etc. that was in the top 3 of rifles chosen by the us military.

A little better than saying that we use XYZ company...but it’s just as capable of a system.

Thought decisions choosing between Ferrari and Lamborghini

Insurance is always a big concern with us. We couldn't even switch to 6.5 until the military adopted it. So solid point!

 

[THEIS]

That is us, I head up the Area Denial Unit. You can also get there from www.overwatching.com, hence my member "name."

Hi,

PM Sent.

Sincerely,
Theis

 

[OverWatching]

Just to finish up the thread I wanted to let you know the final choice. I got back from Shot Show last night and had a chance to try out every rifle with a quick change barrel system while there. We all wanted the Cadex to work out so badly but the bolt was the worst by far. Even the rep tried to oil it up and get it to work, just terrible. AI and Sako both offered no deals at all,even in quantity. No one cared for the MRAD. In the end we bought 8 Desert Techs. It checked all the boxes and people really liked the design.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Just to finish up the thread I wanted to let you know the final choice. I got back from Shot Show last night and had a chance to try out every rifle with a quick change barrel system while there. We all wanted the Cadex to work out so badly but the bolt was the worst by far. Even the rep tried to oil it up and get it to work, just terrible. AI and Sako both offered no deals at all,even in quantity. No one cared for the MRAD. In the end we bought 8 Desert Techs. It checked all the boxes and people really liked the design.

Awesome. Surprised you could get some sort of deal with AI.

(Minor note, and I don’t mean this in a bad way. Bottom of area denial page, above the tiers of service, there’s a typo, “coast” instead of “cost.”

 

[kthomas]

AI AT LE may be worth looking at.

 

[MOUNTIC]

Just to finish up the thread I wanted to let you know the final choice. I got back from Shot Show last night and had a chance to try out every rifle with a quick change barrel system while there. We all wanted the Cadex to work out so badly but the bolt was the worst by far. Even the rep tried to oil it up and get it to work, just terrible. AI and Sako both offered no deals at all,even in quantity. No one cared for the MRAD. In the end we bought 8 Desert Techs. It checked all the boxes and people really liked the design.

I'm surprised they brought a Cadex with a bolt like that to SHOT. When I bought my first two Cadex rifles the bolts were horrible. Any slight upwards or side force when trying to close it, would result in an unpleasant feel and drag. I kept them lubed and just ran them for a while. Now they feel great and absolutely no complaints. Had to work them in a bit before they were up to par. The Cadex rifles are excellent.

I'm surprised AI couldn't get a deal done for you.

 

[DaleGribble82]

Good choice, hopefully they work great for you guys.

 

[brianf]

Good for you on getting a deal.
Post a pic of alol of them lined up.

 

[cpekz]

Desert Tech makes a great rifle, I think you'll be quite happy with them. The design also makes for a really compact and sweet handling bolt gun.

 

[chasedeer]

Great read hope to see photos