BEWARE OF PROOF PREFITS

[YoteMortician]

PSA FOR PROOF PREFIT BARRELS!!

I recommend to everyone after this fiasco to look other places for barrels. I have 2 barrels from them previously that shoot really good. But this 3rd barrel is only capable of 1.5 MOA and Proof has left us with a $900 piece of junk. After testing all shelf ammo we could find for this barrel and it not being better than a 1.5 we sent it in to proof. We received a call a few weeks later stating that it shot .5” with the exact ammo we told them it would not shoot and would not provide pictures. Being that this chambering has been discontinued by them I figured they were giving us the run around so they do not have stop their process to bring out old reamers.



We then took this barrel to a custom ammo manufacturer in our state to see if he could go to bat for us. Immediately he had his doubts as he has had many problems with them in the last few years. He then measured out the chamber and found that there was over .300” of jump. (photos below). He sent this info to proof and requested a replacement and they stated that those chamber specs are not right and they would warranty it.



We heard from proof 2 days ago now and they sent us pictures of a mold they took of the chamber and measured it out stating their was only .06” jump and met SAAMI spec and would not be replacing the barrel. They could not provide us with which bullets they were using to spec the chamber and did not provide much information at all.



So now we are stuck with a $900 barrel that shoots like shit.



After talking with this custom ammo manufacturer, he stated this has been very typical of proof the last 3 years and has had to send in over 50 barrels to the warranty department due to not shooting and chamber dimensions and currently has 4 of them he is trying to make a load for because they won’t shoot good. The size of groups for each one were provided, 1.8, 2.2, 2.5, and 3 MOA.



I will no longer be buying proof barrels and hope to steer people away from their prefits so they don’t waste that kind of money on them either.

 

[River44]

I feel for you bro, not only did you get a crap barrel but you’re going to have a bunch of proof fan boys get in this thread telling you all kinds of crap and making stupid accusations

 

[YoteMortician]

I feel for you bro, not only did you get a crap barrel but you’re going to have a bunch of proof fan boys get in this thread telling you all kinds of crap and making stupid yeah

Oh well. Just doing this for the folks who will listen.

 

[Rio Precision Gunworks]

What "custom ammo manufacturer" has sent 50 barrels back to proof in three years?

That's a pretty hefty claim.

 

[Rio Precision Gunworks]

Also, what is this barrel chambered in? Carbon or steel?

 

[YoteMortician]

What "custom ammo manufacturer" has sent 50 barrels back to proof in three years?

That's a pretty hefty claim.

I didn’t ask permission to share his information so I’d prefer not to say. But they aren’t his. He sends them in for other people that can’t get them to shoot and he tries to help them out.

 

[Rio Precision Gunworks]

I didn’t ask permission to share his information so I’d prefer not to say. But they aren’t his. He sends them in for other people that can’t get them to shoot and he tries to help them out.

Anyone claiming to have sent 50 barrels back to any manufacturer should be very comfortable making the claims public. As that is not acceptable by any means.

And if you're going to use that in your post, I'd suggest you be prepared to make that information known publicly. That is a very, very serious allegation.

 

[YoteMortician]

Anyone claiming to have sent 50 barrels back to any manufacturer should be very comfortable making the claims public. As that is not acceptable by any means.

He may very well be comfortable with it but I’m not at liberty to make that decision for him nor do I want to ask.

 

[Rio Precision Gunworks]

He may very well be comfortable with it but I’m not at liberty to make that decision for him nor do I want to ask.

I'd take that out of your post then. That's a very serious accusation and not willing to back it up is pretty irresponsible and will only hurt your credibility in the claim of bad barrel. The barrel may very well be defective, but the added accusations without backing it up is a bad look.

 

[Trigger Monkey]

From the Ben Stoeger school of vague details and definitive conclusions.

 

[YoteMortician]

I'd take that out of your post then. That's a very serious accusation and not willing to back it up is pretty irresponsible and will only hurt your credibility in the claim of bad barrel. The barrel may very well be defective, but the added accusations without backing it up is a bad look.

Leaving me hanging dry with a shit barrel is a bad look. I’ll leave it up. Thanks.

 

[Rio Precision Gunworks]

Regardless. We'll buy the barrel from you for half the retail price. I'd be very interested in seeing the chamber. At least you'll recoup half your lost money.

 

[YoteMortician]

Regardless. We'll buy the barrel from you for half the retail price. I'd be very interested in seeing the chamber. At least you'll recoup half your lost money.

I may take you up on that. Looking at options right now.

 

[Bigjake83]

I don't know anything about the OP's situation, but it's very close to what I've had to deal with from PR is the past two years. Thier customer service and product quality has gone to shit.

As I've said before, if you're hell bent on using Proof Research Products buy from a vendor with a no questions asked return policy and make sure to thoroughly inspect each barrel inside and out.

I will never use Proof Products or recommend them to anyone after the drama I had with them last year.

Two barrels that I had purchased through ExpertVoice looked like they were chambered with a broken reamer and because I purchased through EV I had to deal with PR directly, not a pleasant experience!

Also when dealing with PR Customer Service keep all communication strictly to email so that you have a black and white paper trail, what they tell you on the phone and what they tell you via Email are two different things.

 

[Rio Precision Gunworks]

I don't know anything about the OP's situation, but it's very close to what I've had to deal with from PR is the past two years. Thier customer service and product quality has gone to shit.

As I've said before, if you're hell bent on using Proof Research Products buy from a vendor with a no questions asked return policy and make sure to thoroughly inspect each barrel inside and out.

I will never use Proof Products or recommend them to anyone after the drama I had with them last year.

Two barrels that I had purchased through ExpertVoice looked like they were chambered with a broken reamer and because I purchased through EV I had to deal with PR directly, not a pleasant experience!

Also when dealing with PR Customer Service keep all communication strictly to email so that you have a black and white paper trail, what they tell you on the phone and what they tell you via Email are two different things.

Similar performance issue as the OP's when you shot them?

 

[davsco]

i started with a proof carbon in 6.5cm, tikka prefit. shoots great. 2nd one was in 6.5prc, tl3 prefit, also shot great. 3rd was 300wsm, tikka prefit. couldn't get it under an inch. contacted proof and they took it back, agreed there was an issue, and replaced it. so, while not happy about having to send it back and waste ammo re-zeroing etc, they stood behind their product for me. just a sample size of one...

 

[whatsupdoc]

i started with a proof carbon in 6.5cm, tikka prefit. shoots great. 2nd one was in 6.5prc, tl3 prefit, also shot great. 3rd was 300wsm, tikka prefit. couldn't get it under an inch. contacted proof and they took it back, agreed there was an issue, and replaced it. so, while not happy about having to send it back and waste ammo re-zeroing etc, they stood behind their product for me. just a sample size of one...

And as a consumer that is what you should expect.

 

[Bigjake83]

Similar performance issue as the OP's when you shot them?

I had one .308 CF Barrel that wouldn't shoot better than 3 MOA with FGMM.

That also brings me back to communicating with PR, I was told several times during some general phone conversations that they guarantee their barrels to shoot .75 MOA or less but when I actually ended up sending that .308 barrel in for poor accuracy they then changed thier story to only complete builds have a accuracy guarantee.. thats why I say keep all communication to Email.

 

[Kadams1563]

IMO Proof was a good go to when they were on EV for $300 but now they are only $20 less then a Bartlien.

Why buy a proof when they are not budget friendly anymore and when they are turning as many barrels as they can I’m sure QC isn’t that great just letting machines run.

I have a 6GT proof and a .223 AI proof that both shoot well but with prices now I’d look elsewhere.

 

[Bigjake83]

IMO Proof was a good go to when they were on EV for $300 but now they are only $20 less then a Bartlien.

Why buy a proof when they are not budget friendly anymore and when they are turning as many barrels as they can I’m sure QC isn’t that great just letting machines run.

I have a 6GT proof and a .223 AI proof that both shoot well but with prices now I’d look elsewhere.

I've switch over to V Seven barrels for quick off the shelf options and so far I've been very impressed. Once Paul Ross from CLE get rolling in his shop I'll go back to ordering custom Bartlein and Krieger barrels.

 

[SWgeezer]

I know of a local gunsmith who last year was sending Proof barrels back, claimed they were making good on them, a friend bought a prefit ar15 barrel that went back 3 times and he thinks they are sending him the same barrel back each time as the gas port is still buggered.

 

[rijndael]

IMO Proof was a good go to when they were on EV for $300 but now they are only $20 less then a Bartlien.

a Proof prefit is ~$454, on Expert Voice. That's a chambered barrel. Where can you get a chambered Bartlein for $20 more?

 

[Mantis Tobbogan]

I hate when these type of threads pop up. I am calling absolute bs on that 50 barrel claim. People come out of their way to make a thread to do nothing but crap on a company.

I have had nothing but a good experience with proof customer service over the years and their barrels. I am going to go off my personal data than some internet post.

 

[Kadams1563]

a Proof prefit is ~$454, on Expert Voice. That's a chambered barrel. Where can you get a chambered Bartlein for $20 more?

I stand corrected. I was looking at just blanks. Either Proof lowered prices back down or Bartlien raised prices more.

My last barrel order was for a .22 steel blank and the proof was less then $30 under the Bartlien. Now the dofference Is greater. Over never looked at pre fits.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

Proof barrels have always been a roll of the dice. They are budget barrels. I have 3 of them right now. The prefits shoot like ass, the ones chambered by a competent smith shoot better, but still not as tight and consistent as the HH/Bartlien/Kriegers from the same smith with the same reamers. You can get a good once, but the chance of getting a turd is much higher than from anywhere else, even pva.

Dan Warner told me a few years ago he would not use proof barrels anymore. They mic them and see inconsistent bores all over the place after having issues with barrels not shooting.

I personally think they pump out stuff so fast with little QC that alot of junk gets sent out. You have prefits that are already on the edge of SAAMI spec in conjunction with dull reamers and this is what you get.

I got a local smith who does great work that will do a chambered proof for $500. He is basically charging 200 bucks and selling the barrel at cost. Fine for practice, hunting or cheap rifles.

Match guns get a Bartlien/HH/Benchmark/Krieger done by one of 5 smiths I will have do work for me that I trust. Its the only way you can really control your barrel quality and ensure you get a shooter everytime. Barrels cost too much money and we go through too many of them to risk anything.

 

[Chris1972]

I’m not calling bs on a 50 barrel claim. I’ve been kind on here because they did give me good customer service, but the original prefit I got from them was the shittiest chambering I’ve ever saw. It was so rough it marked the brass. They did replace the barrel and tell me it was to eliminate possible issues but they found nothing wrong with it. They then proceeded to tell my scope was mounted wrong was the actual issue. I get that, they replaced the barrel and accepted no fault. I’m in on that from a business standpoint. The second barrel had its own issues with an easy bolt lift but had to hammer it open. No pressure not even close. It did shoot. I sold it with a full disclaimer that it sucked losing a ton of money.

 

[kmdn_crew]

So they sent you photos of a complete cast of the freebore with measurements that fall into spec? Problem with these post is that it is always one side of a story. OP you are acting like they did nothing. It sounds to me like they provided photos and some details.

 

[msgriff]

You mention "prefit", a term typically used for bolt actions. Is it an AR barrel, and what is it chambered in? What specific factory ammo were you using? I don't care who made the barrel, but without some further pertinent info, your thread doesn't have much technical value. Nothing wrong with a general warning, but if you want to be taken seriously, you should be prepared to answer some basic questions.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

You mention "prefit", a term typically used for bolt actions. Is it an AR barrel, and what is it chambered in? What specific factory ammo were you using? I don't care who made the barrel, but without some further pertinent info, your thread doesn't have much technical value. Nothing wrong with a general warning, but if you want to be taken seriously, you should be prepared to answer some basic questions.

Does it fucking matter if its a bolt gun or a semi? No

2nd post called it. Proof ball lickers coming in mass to discredit someone with a legit issue.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

I've had nothing but excellent results from prefits or smith chambered proofs but there's definitely some documented cases of bad barrels.

With that said, there's a lot about your story that makes me lean towards not believing you. First of all you won't name what ammo manufacturer is so willing to help people out with proof duds (like it must be some sort of known charity), but you won't say who. Second is whatever the picture of that bullet and case length gauge is supposed to be. I could lay a modified case out too with it stuck way through and a bullet laying it front of it and claim whatever I want. There's not even a set of calipers on it let alone anything documentary that really proves anything. It also looks a lot more than your .300 claim and proof sent it back saying is was .06.

There's just too many holes in your story. This is also the semi auto section and that looks like a creedmoor so I'd assume its a large frame barrel. You say nothing about what barrel it is though, other parts that were used or assembly procedures which if you were experienced you would know that makes a difference too. So it's highly likely that you don't have a fucking clue what you're doing. There's also good probability that the ammo maker doesn't have a fucking clue either if he can't even measure headspace right. It's also weird that he wouldn't make a chamber cast either since that's usually the professional way of doing it.

I think your best bet would be to take up Rio's offer to buy the barrel from you for half of retail and cut your losses. If everything you're saying was actually true and it's already been denied by Proof twice, then what better option do you have? Are you worried he's going to get it and discover that you and this mystery ammo maker don't know your ass from a hole in the ground?

 

[msgriff]

Does it fucking matter if its a bolt gun or a semi? No

2nd post called it. Proof ball lickers coming in mass to discredit someone with a legit issue.

Basic knowledge, including being able to use the proper terms, has a lot to do with whether you're dealing with a novice, or a troll such as yourself.

 

[Mantis Tobbogan]

Does it fucking matter if its a bolt gun or a semi? No

2nd post called it. Proof ball lickers coming in mass to discredit someone with a legit issue.

Has nothing to do with proof ball lickers lol. I would be saying the same thing to his response regardless of company. Homeboys story has questionable information.

All the information does matter ya goober

 

[Ernest 5.56]

I've switch over to V Seven barrels for quick off the shelf options and so far I've been very impressed. Once Paul Ross from CLE get rolling in his shop I'll go back to ordering custom Bartlein and Krieger barrels.

Are the V7 you have bought AR-10 or 15?
How do they shoot in general?

I've allways heard good reports but the sample size has been small

 

[Charmingmander]

Are the V7 AR-10 or 15?
How do they shoot in general?

I've allways heard good reports but the sample size has been small

They make a few options. See here.

V Seven Barrels

 

[Bigjake83]

Are the V7 you have bought AR-10 or 15?
How do they shoot in general?

I've allways heard good reports but the sample size has been small

I've only been using them for small frame builds but so far they have been exceptional performers. .5-.75

 

[AccuSol-ERN]

I am no fanboy of ANYONE......but I can absolutely see the validity of 50 barrels sent back over the span of a year. That is less than 5 barrels a months......that is nothing for a volume seller.

In my experience, the previous comment was spot on. When you ramp up production and cut back QAQC to keep prices down you let more junk out the door and accept the risk of pissed off customers. Period.

Maybe I am a shitty businessman......but I can't sleep when I get ONE barrel/rifle that doesn't perform perfect......let alone a forum thread of multiple people shitting on my product quality. I would seriously consider another career if I had as many people complain as I have heard in the last couple years about PR.

Ern

 

[Mantis Tobbogan]

Man oh man…. Apparently we belong to a couple of the same Facebook groups OP. Looks like you have made your rounds of trash talking. I am just going to leave this here as a response I saw on one of your post. Having trouble with screen shot uploading into my comment but I will attach the file.

Two sides to every story.

 

[Mantis Tobbogan]

OP is probably going to delete this the minute the evidence is posted. They even have test targets they sent you in a reply. The barrel is a 22 Nosler…. Not a pre-fit. Jeezus

 

[Namekagon]

But doesn't it seem beyond coincidence that the customer thought the barrel had an issue, and when it was sent to the ammo guy, he also thought there was an issue, without having knowledge of the first claim? Unless the ammo maker doesn't know how to measure distance to the lands? I still don't think we've heard the whole story on this either way, unless I'm missing something.

 

[Trigger Monkey]

 

[redneckbmxer24]

Man oh man…. Apparently we belong to a couple of the same Facebook groups OP. Looks like you have made your rounds of trash talking. I am just going to leave this here as a response I saw on one of your post. Having trouble with screen shot uploading into my comment but I will attach the file.

Two sides to every story.

Damn. So I guess I was right, dude doesn't have a fucking clue what he's doing, and the custom ammo manufacturer doesn't know how to read seating depth and Proof did the chamber cast they should have done.

Gotta love stupid people. IMO this is defamation.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

I mean technically an AR15 barrel is a prefit. A barrel with a AR15 barrel extension,, drilled, timed and ready to install. Its not a barrel blank and they all start out the same.

The ammo manufacture and Proof need to clarify. How does one measure a .300 FB and the other says its .060 or whatever their spec is. So either Proof or the Ammo manufacture, or both are incompetent.

 

[Mantis Tobbogan]

The damn thread poster is the one incompetent. proof did there part of accuracy testing and doing a cast. Barrel was sent to proof first for accuracy and sent back with test targets to OP. OP sent it to a bullet manufacturer and bullet manufacturer received a chamber cast from proof.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

It says right in the post from Proof that the ammo manufacture reached out because the freebore was .300.

So something is not adding up between them, irrespective of the owner.

 

[Mantis Tobbogan]

And they sent a cast of the chamber to the manufacturer with results of their findings. I am just getting the vibe that OP is out to start drama. Pretty suspect that the bullet manufacturer didn’t even have knowledge of the accuracy warranty.

 

[Nachtwolf]

Well that thread was a huge waste of my time. I should've known after seeing the title alone though

 

[Bigjake83]

If anyone is Interested I placed another order for some 16" V Seven barrels, I can do a review on them if there's enough interest?.

 

[lumberjack78]

The OP posted this in a predator hunting group (statewide that is) as well...so that's at least three places he copied and pasted this to. I wonder where proof touched him

 

[Ernest 5.56]

If anyone is Interested I placed another order for some 16" V Seven barrels, I can do a review on them if there's enough interest?.

Very interested

 

[Mantis Tobbogan]

I think OP is deleting comments in the Facebook group. Bunch of stuff is gone. Cause proof had a test target that was like a 1/2 MOA 5 shot group out of a 22 Nosler lol.

All this over a 22 Nosler.