Beyond keto

[1911addict42]

I watched a little of it but couldn’t finish it. I’m not going to say all, but most of the scientific references in that show were meaningless nonsense

I also didn’t pay much attention to the “scientific” information, but it’s pretty interesting to see the anecdotal evidence of world class athletes embracing that lifestyle.
For example, Tom Brady is entirely vegan and it begs the question as to wether or not that’s one reason he’s played at such a high level; when players ordinarily retire at his age.

If I had a private chef, that could make vegan actually taste good, (many of those athletes do) I’d probably try it. But there’s nothing easier and more delicious than a grilled steak or chicken, so I’ll take the path of least resistance.

 

[The D]

I also didn’t pay much attention to the “scientific” information, but it’s pretty interesting to see the anecdotal evidence of world class athletes embracing that lifestyle.
For example, Tom Brady is entirely vegan and it begs the question as to wether or not that’s one reason he’s played at such a high level; when players ordinarily retire at his age.

If I had a private chef, that could make vegan actually taste good, (many of those athletes do) I’d probably try it. But there’s nothing easier and more delicious than a grilled steak or chicken, so I’ll take the path of least resistance.

There’s also plenty of anecdotal evidence to suggest that athletes that go plant based fall off a cliff in regards to their actual physical ability. Just off the top of my head I can think of 3 players that changed, their physical performance peaked, they got hurt then took forever to heal or were just never the same. They are Cam Newton, Arian Foster, & Demarius Thomas.

The thing is, they probably do actually get a benefit switching from eating a bunch of garbage and following the fda guidelines to eating a whole food-ish plant based diet. One problem I have is that most athletes need to supplement still and the ingredients of those supplements can be a little suspect. Another problem I have is that eventually they will become nutrient deficient if they don’t incorporate some animal products into their diet. Even if those animal products are only shellfish and a dried organ supplement

 

[Labanaktis]

I would be interested to know what the actual testing is called?

Matt

 

[The D]

Actual testing for what?

 

[Labanaktis]

The testing for what specific foods would benefit you genetically.

Matt

 

[1911addict42]

The testing for what specific foods would benefit you genetically.

Matt

I believe it is called “nutrigenomics testing.” There’s a handful of companies that do it. I believe some companies do the test for you and then offer a customized diet plan based on the results.

 

[DukeGSP]

so I've got a huge stock pile of deer meat. I know Venison is known for being very lean, would this meat be beneficial still in the Keto/carnivore diet?

 

[Eli17L]

There is labwork available that determines which foods are most appropriate for an individual’s body type/digestive makeup. Many wealthy people/celebrities/athletes use it to create an eating plan that allows weight loss and long term heath.
There is no one size fits all diet.
That said, I have great success with Keto, my body is much happier with organic protein and vegetables. (The quality of the meats are important, commercial raised animals are poison)

I did that for years and found it to be an ever moving target. But it is a money maker for those in the business.

 

[The D]

so I've got a huge stock pile of deer meat. I know Venison is known for being very lean, would this meat be beneficial still in the Keto/carnivore diet?

Yes, it’s still beneficial but you will have to figure out a way to add some fat to your meals.

edit: A fairly easy way to do that would be to chop it up, cook it with some tallow, & scramble some egg yolks with it. Mmmm, that sounds delicious

 

[1911addict42]

I did that for years and found it to be an ever moving target. But it is a money maker for those in the business.

I’d imagine that there are many factors that would dictate success, including the nutritional advice/conclusions given based on the test results, quality of food eaten (I.e organic?) , compliance with the diet etc.
Curious to know more about your experience, I’ve considered trying it out.

 

[Eli17L]

I’d imagine that there are many factors that would dictate success, including the nutritional advice/conclusions given based on the test results, quality of food eaten (I.e organic?) , compliance with the diet etc.
Curious to know more about your experience, I’ve considered trying it out.

Ran a lab with the equipment and ran the test on myself and some staff every few months for a couple of years.

 

[carvercalls]

I've been keto for a week, so far so good. I've dropped 2 pounds so far. My hope is to drop 50

 

[HellcatActual]

Keto was awesome and worked well but it was horrifically difficult to maintain in respect to my job. I have to cook dinner for 11 hungry asshole firemen every so often and basically had to make a different meal for myself, and then bring food in for myself every time it wasnt my turn to cook... started to become a major hassle when these dudes are crushing garbage plates and pasta and im gnawing on butter covered steak.

what made me stop was the lack of energy.. catching work and being on keto was touching the "oh shit this isn't a good idea" territory.

 

[Eli17L]

If your not thriving on a ketogenic diet you should get with an MD that is familiar with it and see whats wrong.
And yes being different than the norm is more difficult. As my Dr told me you have to decide weather you want to be a sheep or the wolf and your eyes arn't on the sides of your head.

 

[The D]

Keto was awesome and worked well but it was horrifically difficult to maintain in respect to my job. I have to cook dinner for 11 hungry asshole firemen every so often and basically had to make a different meal for myself, and then bring food in for myself every time it wasnt my turn to cook... started to become a major hassle when these dudes are crushing garbage plates and pasta and im gnawing on butter covered steak.

what made me stop was the lack of energy.. catching work and being on keto was touching the "oh shit this isn't a good idea" territory.

What did you switch back to? My wife and I try to tell everyone to at least limit sugar, grains, & processed seed oils as much as you can. That will get you quite a bit of progress if you’re diligent about it

I’m not gonna lie though, I can be perfectly happy with a ribeye with butter and an egg yolk on top

 

[HellcatActual]

What did you switch back to? My wife and I try to tell everyone to at least limit sugar, grains, & processed seed oils as much as you can. That will get you quite a bit of progress if you’re diligent about it

I’m not gonna lie though, I can be perfectly happy with a ribeye with butter and an egg yolk on top

switched back to eating like shit and drinking my face off. its working well. /sarcasm.

 

[The D]

switched back to eating like shit and drinking my face off. its working well. /sarcasm.

As long as you’re happy...

 

[Labanaktis]

Early on Keto I had an extreme amount of energy. It was 2.5-3 weeks on. Around 8pm I felt like I could do some reps and run 5 miles...that lasted about a week. Since then Keto has been good to me. I am loosing weight, feel great and I’m not getting any hunger pains. Dr. Ken Berry and Dr Eric Berg on YT was a great motivation. I like Keto because when I do workout you actually feel and see the gains. In another month I will do labs to see where I’m at. Eating mornings and evenings. I need to get back on intermittent fasting again.

So far so good...It just works for me...

Matt

 

[The D]

Early on Keto I had an extreme amount of energy. It was 2.5-3 weeks on. Around 8pm I felt like I could do some reps and run 5 miles...that lasted about a week. Since then Keto has been good to me. I am loosing weight, feel great and I’m not getting any hunger pains. Dr. Ken Berry and Dr Eric Berg on YT was a great motivation. I like Keto because when I do workout you actually feel and see the gains. In another month I will do labs to see where I’m at. Eating mornings and evenings. I need to get back on intermittent fasting again.

So far so good...It just works for me...

Matt

Did you get bloodwork done before you started to compare of are you just looking for good numbers? And, almost more importantly, is your dr sympathetic to lchf diets and know what they are looking at?

 

[The D]

Found some good blogs recently. They’re not carnivore specific but they are very low carb-centric

Hyperlipid

You need to get calories from somewhere, should it be from carbohydrate or fat?

high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.com

This blog is way over my lizard brain but I try to understand anyway

Fire In A Bottle

Metabolic Enhancement Shop & Blog

ota.bln.mybluehost.me

I know the first thing you see is a diet about croissants but just trust me, it’s a good site. And it’s more friendly to plebes like me

 

[Labanaktis]

Did you get bloodwork done before you started to compare of are you just looking for good numbers? And, almost more importantly, is your dr sympathetic to lchf diets and know what they are looking at?

I had blood work done a year ago. After the doctors open backup I will get it done again. Just looking for good realistic numbers... I’m sold on low carb, and using fat as an energy source. It has worked for me. I have lost weight and am slowly leaning out. When I get to a physical level I like, I will reevaluate diet. I feel good, sleep good and do not feel tired during the day.

Matt

 

[The D]

Happy nose-to-tail November everyone. I can’t believe I finished this whole plate

 

[Labanaktis]

I have yet to try an egg yoke with steak...steak with garlic butter is just so damn good... gotta try the yoke someday.

M

 

[The D]

You could try this also; sauté some garlic in butter and cook a steak right on top of that. Then put a yolk on top when it’s finished and on a plate

 

[sled_mack]

Is the egg yolk raw, or partially cooked?

Looks good!

 

[The D]

Raw. I eat scrambled egg yolks all the time too, just depends on my mood

 

[The D]

I love this diet. 3 patties, top and bottom covered in pepper jack cheese, middle layer of melted brie, two egg yolks

 

[Smitty192]

so I've got a huge stock pile of deer meat. I know Venison is known for being very lean, would this meat be beneficial still in the Keto/carnivore diet?

You'll need to find a way to add fat to your nutrition intake.

 

[pmclaine]

so I've got a huge stock pile of deer meat. I know Venison is known for being very lean, would this meat be beneficial still in the Keto/carnivore diet?

You'll need to find a way to add fat to your nutrition intake.

Rodgers Rangers tried to live off the land when they were establishing the concept of "Special Operations Warfare".

They ate squirrel, rabbit, trout and venison like candy bars. They also were burning a shit ton of calories a day.

They wasted away and failed physically despite the meat diet.

Not enough fat. They suffered protein poisoning.

I just finished six slices of bacon and three fried eggs.....there is no little cup of rendered bacon fat cooling.

That shit is in my belly, poured over the bacon and eggs.

When I shit it out approx. 0930 there will be an oil slick on the bowl water.

Meat, fats, oils, nuts and non carb vegetables are your friend

 

[Smitty192]

Rodgers Rangers tried to live off the land when they were establishing the concept of "Special Operations Warfare".

They ate squirrel, rabbit, trout and venison like candy bars. They also were burning a shit ton of calories a day.

They wasted away and failed physically despite the meat diet.

Not enough fat. They suffered protein poisoning.

I just finished six slices of bacon and three fried eggs.....there is no little cup of rendered bacon fat cooling.

That shit is in my belly, poured over the bacon and eggs.

When I shit it out approx. 0930 there will be an oil slick on the bowl water.

Meat, fats, oils, nuts and non carb vegetables are your friend

Bingo.
There was another case...I believe it was an exploration ship that got stranded. All the could catch were rabbits. Most ended up starving to death.

There was a body builder in the 70s that only at steak and eggs. Still a thing in some circles.

When i stray and eat junk carbs, I feel like shit the next day. It's amazing how well your body will respond with decent nutrition for fuel.

 

[The D]

I have never tried the carnivorous diet, and I do not think I would like it. I don't think I could eat only meat. Overeating meat makes me feel heavy and lazy. Like your wife, I follow the standard keto diet, and I like it. After birth, I gained about 20 kilograms of belly fat. Ever since I started following the جدول كيتو دايت for a year, I lost weight and reached the initial kilograms, which I had before birth. My health has improved with this diet, and now I continue to eat after the schedule, sometimes with slight deviations.

There’s a doctor named Paul Saladino who got me started down the carnivore trail. He has a podcast called Fundamental Health that I listen to as soon as it’s available. He has changed his diet a little over the last few years to include some carbs but it’s only some pretty specific carbs. He calls it “ancestral eating” and includes raw honey and local fruits-NO stems, leaves, roots, or seeds. The majority of his calories still come from animal meat, fat, & organs

 

[DukeGSP]

Rodgers Rangers tried to live off the land when they were establishing the concept of "Special Operations Warfare".

They ate squirrel, rabbit, trout and venison like candy bars. They also were burning a shit ton of calories a day.

They wasted away and failed physically despite the meat diet.

Not enough fat. They suffered protein poisoning.

I just finished six slices of bacon and three fried eggs.....there is no little cup of rendered bacon fat cooling.

That shit is in my belly, poured over the bacon and eggs.

When I shit it out approx. 0930 there will be an oil slick on the bowl water.

Meat, fats, oils, nuts and non carb vegetables are your friend

so if i just added some fat's then that source of protien would be okay i'm assuming?

 

[pmclaine]

so if i just added some fat's then that source of protien would be okay i'm assuming?

The fat will provide you the fuel you need to power your brain and muscle.

but....

it only matters if you have sufficiently cut carbs to the point your body has converted to using ketones for fuel.

Our bodies are lazy, they like easy energy created by carbs/sugar.

If your body is carb burning it will store the fat for times of duress, stored as fat making you a fat body.

Your body will say to itself "Lets store this fat for the winter shortage, there will be carbs coming"

You need to break your body of expecting carbs will be coming and make it burn fats and oils.

Saying "Im on a keto diet" but cheating with enough carbs to keep your body expecting more will result in no fat burning and a fatter you.

You need to change from public utility line power to diesel generator.

If Rodgers Rangers had fried their rabbit in olive oil or coconut oil and included eating that oil with their meals they would have likely been fine.

 

[The D]

so if i just added some fat's then that source of protien would be okay i'm assuming?

Yes, just be careful about your fat source. At least use the cleanest lard you can find. A few better options would be tallow or suet from ruminant animals.

 

[DukeGSP]

tracking. i can eliminate carbs i just want to make sure if i'm going to put myself through this process, that i'm doing it correctly. if i can incorporate the fats into my diet with the lean protein that i'm not wasting my efforts.

 

[DukeGSP]

Yes, just be careful about your fat source. At least use the cleanest lard you can find. A few better options would be tallow or suet from ruminant animals.

i love avocado's i can eat my weight in those. egg's and oil is what i would cook the meat in.

 

[pmclaine]

i love avocado's i can eat my weight in those. egg's and oil is what i would cook the meat in.

It doesnt have to be hard which is why I have been able to stick with it.

The only reason you need to go into the aisles of the supermarket is to buy coffee filters, pepperoncini's, olives, 100% cacao bars, mixed nuts and tuna otherwise only eat from the perimeter of the store.

Brussel sprouts fried in olive oil with some bacon thrown in will keep you going.

I was afraid my lab numbers from eating like this would spike. The bad cholesterol number actually went down and my good cholesterol number went higher.

My last physical my good cholesterol went down some but I learned that is because I went from drinking a glass or two of rye per week to now almost none. Alcohol apparently raises good cholesterol.

My PCP is horrified by what I eat but cant argue with the lab data, steady wait, general health.

 

[The D]

i love avocado's i can eat my weight in those. egg's and oil is what i would cook the meat in.

What type of oil? There is an increasing amount of evidence to suggest that plant-based oils that are high in omega-6 (polyunsaturated) fatty acids are driving severe metabolic dysfunction. A hard and fast rule is if the plant oil can be minimally processed from the flesh(absolutely no seed oils) of the plant it’s ok but shouldn’t be heated to a very high temperature

Somewhere in this thread I’ve linked to several resources explaining the dangers of excessive polyunsaturated fat consumption. And conversely there is ample evidence explaining how switching to using tallow and especially suet(fat around the kidneys) of animals will rather quickly repair that damage

Hyperlipid

You need to get calories from somewhere, should it be from carbohydrate or fat?

high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.com

This is a very technical(to me at least), nuts and bolts blog about the dangers of seed oils. His more recent entries are about covid but the majority of the blog is nutrition related


Dr Chris Knobbe goes pretty hard against seed oils in this, and many other, presentations

Ending the debate over seed oils, with Tucker Goodrich | Paul Saladino MD

carnivoremd.com

Another great podcast about seed oils

This is the doctor I’ve spoken so highly of previously. He also has several podcasts explaining why and how animal fats are superior for human health

Edited to add, after seeing pmclaine’s post. There is also plenty of available info to support that cholesterol numbers don’t mean much about your health. I know that sounds crazy but you need to get into some weeds about the numbers. Again, I’ll bang the drums for Dr Saladino here. He has several podcasts about bloodwork numbers and explaining what you should worry about, & why, and what is a load of shit

 

[DukeGSP]

i've been using avocado oil and MCT oil

 

[pmclaine]

What type of oil? There is an increasing amount of evidence to suggest that plant-based oils that are high in omega-6 (polyunsaturated) fatty acids are driving severe metabolic dysfunction. A hard and fast rule is if the plant oil can be minimally processed from the flesh(absolutely no seed oils) of the plant it’s ok but shouldn’t be heated to a very high temperature

Somewhere in this thread I’ve linked to several resources explaining the dangers of excessive polyunsaturated fat consumption. And conversely there is ample evidence explaining how switching to using tallow and especially suet(fat around the kidneys) of animals will rather quickly repair that damage

Hyperlipid

You need to get calories from somewhere, should it be from carbohydrate or fat?

high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.com

This is a very technical(to me at least), nuts and bolts blog about the dangers of seed oils. His more recent entries are about covid but the majority of the blog is nutrition related


Dr Chris Knobbe goes pretty hard against seed oils in this, and many other, presentations

Ending the debate over seed oils, with Tucker Goodrich | Paul Saladino MD

carnivoremd.com

Another great podcast about seed oils

This is the doctor I’ve spoken so highly of previously. He also has several podcasts explaining why and how animal fats are superior for human health

Edited to add, after seeing pmclaine’s post. There is also plenty of available info to support that cholesterol numbers don’t mean much about your health. I know that sounds crazy but you need to get into some weeds about the numbers. Again, I’ll bang the drums for Dr Saladino here. He has several podcasts about bloodwork numbers and explaining what you should worry about, & why, and what is a load of shit

Smart guy in charge of health program on my job sees olive oil as evil. especially if used for cooking.

His dislike for olive oil is related to this I am guessing?

I eat tons of mixed nuts, its my go to snack, unsure of health factor there.

Regards govt recommendations.....I dont think any govt recommendation has anything to do with health. They lie to make money.

 

[The D]

Smart guy in charge of health program on my job sees olive oil as evil. especially if used for cooking.

His dislike for olive oil is related to this I am guessing?

Probably, but you’d have to ask him what exactly he’s talking about. I don’t really have a problem with olive oil per se but I think it should be used sparingly, especially high heat cooking

 

[pmclaine]

Probably, but you’d have to ask him what exactly he’s talking about. I don’t really have a problem with olive oil per se but I think it should be used sparingly, especially high heat cooking

It is so good with brussel sprouts and cauliflower though....guess i have to die from something.

 

[The D]

It is so good with brussel sprouts and cauliflower though....guess i have to die from something.

There are definitely worse things to eat.