Bidet wants banks to turn over info on all accounts holding more than $600.

[Maggot]

What a duchebag. I predict that if he does that you will see massive withdrawls from bank accounts. I Greece thaty put a 10% one time surcharge on all accounts to pay the debt. sound familiar?

FJB

IRS would track all bank transactions ... - Washington Examiner​

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com › politics › irs-w...



22 hours ago — The Biden administration has made clear its plan to beef up IRS auditing by expanding the agency's funding and power. Biden's latest proposal ...

 

[eca7891]

All transactions.

not just account info.

think about that for a minute.

 

[clcustom1911]

Yup, every transaction of $600 and over would be reported to IRS. It used to be $10,000.

Think about how much wider that net will be cast.

Cash is gonna be king somehow

 

[jinxx4ever]

get ur money out now, kinda like the current situation with ammo and reloading supplies, don't come on here afterwards bitching you waited till "after" it was inacted. Banks are fighting this , they don't want the headache. The IRS will be given 80billion more dollars to expand another 150,000 employees to moniter this

 

[Dunraven]

They want to hire 80,000 more IRS agents to keep an eye on things. Strategy: Punish law-abiding conservatives, flood country with new 'voters'.

 

[missed]

But they will all be exempt from that....

Just making government bigger. Cash will be king.

 

[Jscb1b]

Barter.

 

[Docsherm]

I will transfer $650 every day form my saving to my checking and vice versa if this happens. Just to flood them with data ............

 

[Crewdog135]

I'll go one better, on my days off I'll spend an hour at the bank withdrawing then depositing $601. Flood the damn system.

 

[brianf]

im not in favor but this to real reason that they are hiring so many agents:

tax gap of 2019 (there is a tax gap every year and always has been)

After accounting for $76 billion of additional revenue from Internal Revenue Service (IRS) enforcement activities and late payments, Treasury estimates the “net tax gap” totaled $554 billion in 2019, which is 2.6 percent of Gross Domestic Product (GDP), or 15.2 percent of total tax revenue owed

500 billion dollars of taxes goes unpaid.

now we know the govt will waste it anyway but between 400-500 billion every year goes uncollected

thats a very big number and a very easy target because it comes from non compliance...not increasing taxes...current law not followed.

if someone said you can spend 80$ a year and get back 500$ every year wed all sign up for that investment

 

[eca7891]

Like others have said.

cash, crypto or barter.

Any real criminal will not be using the USA based banking system anyways. Or any banking system, if they are smart.

 

[M8541Reaper]

Like others have said.

cash, crypto or barter.

Any real criminal will not be using the USA based banking system anyways. Or any banking system, if they are smart.

Not disclosing crypto on your taxes will soon be tax evasion. That’s why they started the crypto trail last year

 

[eca7891]

Might be hard for them to know that you have any….

 

[346ci]

Did my own taxes last year and was asked about crypto, they are already tracking it.

Robinhood keeps sending me emails to claim tax status...

 

[NoDopes]

They could save WAY more than that going after the welfare fraud. Government itself said it's likely over 30% of all welfare is fraud.
The $600 is insane.. this must be the first phase to something else later... One time massive tax on all savings?
Somebody will need to pay for this crazy $6trillion in spending... Nancy is trying to spend another $3.5T right now... It's not sustainable.

 

[Gee Kay]

govts there spend billions with zero accountability to the taxpayers, yet they want to track what you do. the president, it seems, like every other leader of a country is just the puppet in chief who answers to others who pull the strings. look no further than the money supply.

 

[Inifinty]

“At this point, what difference does it make”

 

[clcustom1911]

If you even transfer more than $600 in a year with paypal, venmo, or any of the cash apps, its reported now. I look back at all the money I made on ebay, craigslist, and in guitar forums as a younger man... that was a goldmine. And its over. Everyone is saying barter, but that's just getting by. There no way to make a profit now. Or at least it will be significantly harder.

I've always noted that a healthy forum has a healthy buy/sell/trade section. This will effect this place and many others like it.

It'll just have to be in multiple transactions of under $600 for items. There's always a way.

 

[eca7891]

I thought the whole point in crypto was untraceable , not able to be manipulated like traditional currency.

I mean sure, they will know about it if you tell them. If you are doing a trade across regulated exchanges (nyse). But how are the going to track it if I’m selling “x” to buyer “y” via crypto?

 

[nso123]

It'll just have to be in multiple transactions of under $600 for items. There's always a way.

That is what they will call “structuring” when they come after you. A whole lot of $9000 transactions have led to this in the past.

 

[Austan]

How about the government starts by looking for the 2.3 Trillion dollars the pentagon "lost"...

 

[Inifinty]

This thread in a nutshell.

Second mate of the titanic - Captain abandon ship we are capsizing.

Captain of the titanic - We need to be vigilant we don’t hit any icebergs tonight. What are they preparing in the galley for dinner?

 

[ZiaHunter]

im not in favor but this to real reason that they are hiring so many agents:

tax gap of 2019 (there is a tax gap every year and always has been)

After accounting for $76 billion of additional revenue from Internal Revenue Service (IRS) enforcement activities and late payments, Treasury estimates the “net tax gap” totaled $554 billion in 2019, which is 2.6 percent of Gross Domestic Product (GDP), or 15.2 percent of total tax revenue owed

500 billion dollars of taxes goes unpaid.

now we know the govt will waste it anyway but between 400-500 billion every year goes uncollected

thats a very big number and a very easy target because it comes from non compliance...not increasing taxes...current law not followed.

if someone said you can spend 80$ a year and get back 500$ every year wed all sign up for that investment

This has very little to do with tax avoidance/evasion but all about control. The hiring of an additional 84,000 agents will significantly reduce the net benefit of additional taxes collected. This is truly evil what they attempting and absolute invasion of an individuals economic freedom. The people putting forth this legislation are absolutely disgusting individuals.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

I can only imagine what a nightmare this will be for banks and tax accounting.

Paypal already makes it to where any "goods and services" payment is taxable income and gives you a 1099 for every dime you've taken as one of those payments. So any used item you sell online, at a loss, that was bought with money you already paid taxes on, you have to either pay income tax on or account for what you paid and have records to show it if you're audited.

So lets say people wanted to cheat the system still, what's stopping them from just saving receipts and invoices for things they've bought and any incoming payment or credit over this threshold you attach it to and claim it was selling X item at a loss? Literally nothing. Cheaters are still going to cheat and nothing will be done, and they're just using this as an excuse for a bigger more restrictive government. That's all.

I've never claimed the loss on anything I've sold at a loss, but if they want to start making taxes more difficult than they already are then I will gladly track everything I ever buy and sell, claim it as a loss, and pay less taxes.

 

[brianf]

This has very little to do with tax avoidance/evasion but all about control. The hiring of an additional 84,000 agents will significantly reduce the net benefit of additional taxes collected. This is truly evil what they attempting and absolute invasion of an individuals economic freedom. The people putting forth this legislation are absolutely disgusting individuals.

again im not suggesting they collect more/increase tax rate..im already paying over 40% because of my bracket and state...yes almost half of my income and close to half of it before the tax reductions years back goes to the government

every dollar not collected is a dollar more they come to me to get

they cant go to the welfare guy, they cant go to the guy who is scraping by, they go to the guy who has a few bucks and has tracible money in accounts/ investments/ business

that aside, you truthfully believe that hiring 84K IRS workers will not find some of the 500 billion out there..thats 1500$ per person (man woman child) in the US

of course most of it will be on huge corporations etc but every time someone pays cash for a oil change and he isnt charged tax...that comes out of our asses the next time taxes go up


edit...damn phone

 

[clcustom1911]

That is what they will call “structuring” when they come after you. A whole lot of $9000 transactions have led to this in the past.

I know. I've done financial investigations before

 

[RedTimber]

That is what they will call “structuring” when they come after you. A whole lot of $9000 transactions have led to this in the past.

Bc the required threshold amount for the bank to record is 3000.

 

[Lawless]

Yup, every transaction of $600 and over would be reported to IRS. It used to be $10,000.

Think about how much wider that net will be cast.

Cash is gonna be king somehow

It is $600 aggregate, not individual transactions. Every in/out in every account will be monitored.

 

[nso123]

I know. I've done financial investigations before

Me too.

 

[wh20crazy]

From my grandfather's diary:

 

[Inifinty]

While you all are watching the tennis ball, this is where the magicians other hand is going.

Reactions to all crisis are merging on a new credit system of control

Personal carbon allowances revisited - Nature Sustainability

Personal carbon allowances (PCAs) could support climate mitigation efforts but would need to be carefully designed to avoid impacts on Sustainable Development Goals (SDGs). This Perspective discusses why the time is ripe for reconsidering PCAs and provides a set of SDG-based design principles...

www.nature.com

 

[W54/XM-388]

Yup, every transaction of $600 and over would be reported to IRS. It used to be $10,000.

Think about how much wider that net will be cast.

Cash is gonna be king somehow

Not quite correct, the actual proposal is for any transaction $600 or over AND any transaction into ANY account that has in the entire history of the account had $600 or more passed through it in aggregate, to the beginning of time.

I will transfer $650 every day form my saving to my checking and vice versa if this happens. Just to flood them with data ............

And as others have found out, you'll get a tax bill for all that as "Income" and it will be on you to prove you don't owe the tax.

I'll go one better, on my days off I'll spend an hour at the bank withdrawing then depositing $601. Flood the damn system.

I hope you like paying a tax lawyer, because all that WILL be counted as income and they will come after you for taxes on it, then interest, then penalties and it will be on you to spend a lot of time proving that you didn't make that money but were just playing around. You don't pay, no problem, you find your bank accounts seized.

It'll just have to be in multiple transactions of under $600 for items. There's always a way.

As mentioned above, it's any account in aggregate of $600 total for the entire life of the account.
So you get a bunch of $100 payments into an account, once that account has hit $600 worth of receiving or sending... tax reporting time.
You sell a bit of stuff using PP or Zelle or any other funds transfer service? Yep once you have hit the lifetime account limit of $600 it gets reported.
You list stuff on eBay, yep reported if you all your sales since the beginning of time have a total of $600 or more.

Essentially everything is going to be reported.

You may think you'll overwhelm the system, but you won't, instead it will be the other way around.
The system will automatically bring in all the data, calculate what you got in, then flag your account as owing more taxes.
Then good luck getting ahold of someone at the IRS to correct the issue, they don't care, and while you try, interest and penalties will accrue and you'll be forced to pay up and hope to get in line in tax court to get it back.

It's a backdoor way to force people to pay taxes they don't owe, by making the system totally rigged so you have to pay up anything they say, or be labeled a tax cheat, and good luck with trying to fight it.

 

[clcustom1911]

It is $600 aggregate, not individual transactions. Every in/out in every account will be monitored.

Well, that's just silly.

 

[candyx]

China gave 1.5 billion to Hunter to manage and the Big Guy always gets his 10% , I hope those transactions are exempt from the IRS. Would never want to see the Biden's behind bars, I rather see you blokes swing from a yardarm for taking your $600.00 out of the bank and doing something nefarious .

 

[Maggot]

Yup, every transaction of $600 and over would be reported to IRS. It used to be $10,000.

Think about how much wider that net will be cast.

Cash is gonna be king somehow

get ur money out now, kinda like the current situation with ammo and reloading supplies, don't come on here afterwards bitching you waited till "after" it was inacted. Banks are fighting this , they don't want the headache. The IRS will be given 80billion more dollars to expand another 150,000 employees to moniter this

THey are already planning to eliminate it and go to all credit system...we've discussed here 'The mark of the beast.'

Its not just the headache, the banks make a fortune on your savings deposits. They pay about .05% and make who knows how much? Imagine if every body emptied their saving accounts (I dont have one for that reason) and kept their checking accounts at a minimum.

 

[vinniedelpino]

Not quite correct, the actual proposal is for any transaction $600 or over AND any transaction into ANY account that has in the entire history of the account had $600 or more passed through it in aggregate, to the beginning of time.



And as others have found out, you'll get a tax bill for all that as "Income" and it will be on you to prove you don't owe the tax.



I hope you like paying a tax lawyer, because all that WILL be counted as income and they will come after you for taxes on it, then interest, then penalties and it will be on you to spend a lot of time proving that you didn't make that money but were just playing around. You don't pay, no problem, you find your bank accounts seized.



As mentioned above, it's any account in aggregate of $600 total for the entire life of the account.
So you get a bunch of $100 payments into an account, once that account has hit $600 worth of receiving or sending... tax reporting time.
You sell a bit of stuff using PP or Zelle or any other funds transfer service? Yep once you have hit the lifetime account limit of $600 it gets reported.
You list stuff on eBay, yep reported if you all your sales since the beginning of time have a total of $600 or more.

Essentially everything is going to be reported.

You may think you'll overwhelm the system, but you won't, instead it will be the other way around.
The system will automatically bring in all the data, calculate what you got in, then flag your account as owing more taxes.
Then good luck getting ahold of someone at the IRS to correct the issue, they don't care, and while you try, interest and penalties will accrue and you'll be forced to pay up and hope to get in line in tax court to get it back.

It's a backdoor way to force people to pay taxes they don't owe, by making the system totally rigged so you have to pay up anything they say, or be labeled a tax cheat, and good luck with trying to fight it.

This is a metadata issue moreso than a tax issue. Third parties like the IRS can't reconstruct financial statements off of this information as they have no idea about the underlying nature of the transactions. They can see how money is moving, but not what it's for. Deposits can be anything... loan proceeds, capital contributions to a business account, refunds, savings, income etc.

Informational returns fill in the gaps (just about any form starting with 1099/1098 and these come from the individual or entity sending the payment. If you file a return without picking up these forms as income, that's when the IRS knows you're playing games and will come after you.

I'm not worried about the IRS. I'm more concerned with a complete lack of privacy.

It's amazing what you can piece together based on someone's spending. I have a recently divorced client whos typical Friday afternoon looks like this:

6pm- Haircut
7pm- ABC/liquor purchase
8:30pm- Restaurant/Bar/Club
11:00pm- ATM Withdrawal
1:00am- Red Carpet Inn

In other words, he polishes up, pre games, strikes out at the bar, picks up a hooker and brings her to a cheap motel (as best I can tell.) Right wrong or otherwise, none of this is the government's business.

 

[BAMAboy18]

Sounds more like a way leading into communism. Where a small upper crust live like royalty off the backs of a large pool of minions. FDR started this and it feels like we're getting closer to fruition every day...

 

[tomcatmv]

FDR and Woodrow Wilson are two of the most evil people in history.

 

[Docsherm]

And as others have found out, you'll get a tax bill for all that as "Income" and it will be on you to prove you don't owe the tax.

Uhhhhhh what? What "others" are you referring to? Did "THEY" come after them? The infamous "THEY" are all over the interweb getting people.

No, I will not pay on it but I will be audited for it. That is fine. I have made multiple deposits well over $10k every year and I ONLY pay tax on those that are income. It is easy when you have a withdraw receipt and a deposit receipt.

Please tell me that you are not an accountant. If you are not then you need to get a new one because because whomever you have is giving you bad info...........


What this comes down to is that the Poorers now have to deal with the same crap that us NON-POORERS have to deal with all of the time

 

[samadisoulcrusher]

Just another attack of peoples rights and one more burden on the middle class .
The goal I believe is to crush the middle class out of existence .

 

[Maggot]

Just another attack of peoples rights and one more burden on the middle class .
The goal I believe is to crush the middle class out of existence .

Looks like they want to make it simpler and go back to royalty and serfs, no in between.

 

[samadisoulcrusher]

Looks like they want to make it simpler and go back to royalty and serfs, no in between.

Exactly .

 

[W54/XM-388]

What this comes down to is that the Poorers now have to deal with the same crap that us NON-POORERS have to deal with all of the time

Except you "Non-Poorers" have the money to pay accountants and lawyers and assistants to deal with all that comes with having more complicated taxes, you probably don't care if you have to pay large amounts of extra tax and spend a couple years worth of time fighting to get it back.

This hike is NOT targeted at you, it's exactly the same reason why the IRS spends more time auditing individuals than bigger targets where they could get a better return. It's much easier to bully the "Poorers" as you call them who can't afford to pay the money for all it takes to fight them. It's a squeeze on the lower end of the middle class and the upper end of the poor class. Sure you might be right, but pay up anyways because we'll make it so costly and lengthy to fight us, you'll spend more and loose more than you get back, so pay up sucker.

How many folks are going to have all the receipts for everything they ever bought that they are getting rid of on eBay or FB marketplace to prove that they were not making any money, only getting back less than what they paid for it? And those that do, how many will be selling enough to pay the fees for the fight?

It's a grab to make the poor, poorer.

 

[jinxx4ever]

I know. I've done financial investigations before

what the fuck does it matter if it's $600 or $10,000, "IT'S MY MONEY"

 

[acudaowner]

well that would be easier to kill the king than hunt down There are a total of 535 Members of Congress. 100 serve in the U.S. Senate and 435 serve in the U.S. House of Representatives. that's a lot of people to round up to clean up government all at once . long live the king lol
cash is king ask any hooker and a lot of bumper stickers

 

[Son of Dorn]

Looks like they want to make it simpler and go back to royalty and serfs, no in between.

 

[forrestgump01]

again im not suggesting they collect more/increase tax rate..im already paying over 40% because of my bracket and state...yes almost half of my income and close to half of it before the tax reductions years back goes to the government

every dollar not collected is a dollar more they come to me to get

they cant go to the welfare guy, they cant go to the guy who is scraping by, they go to the guy who has a few bucks and has tracible money in accounts/ investments/ business

that aside, you truthfully believe that hiring 84K IRS workers will not find some of the 500 billion out there..thats 1500$ per person (man woman child) in the US

of course most of it will be on huge corporations etc but every time someone pays cash for a oil change and he isnt charged tax...that comes out of our asses the next time taxes go up


edit...damn phone

If you were truly concerned about finding the unpaid taxes out there you should be promoting the fair tax instead of pushing bigger and more powerful government.

Im lead to believe through post you have made that you don't like cash as it allows an opportunity to get around paying taxes,
and doesn't allow government to have full control over your finances.

different conversation and dont want to derail but that is a primary reason for paperless money.

if you sell a stolen good and receive cash and that good is sold for cash its untraceable.

if it all goes on "your credit card", its traceable/trackable and the govt gets their cut of the taxes as well

Are you advocating for a cashless society ?

I was waiting for this reply, which is why I said …off topic let’s not derail.

personally I have no issue with it because my business does not deal with cash and I pay my taxes properly.

I use credit cards not debit cards so I gain “points” at the same same price as cash transactions, making my purchase cheaper than a cash transaction at the end of the day.

but I do have a problem with the federal tax gap and because of my tax bracket …they come to me when the tax hikes are needed.

back to cats

You seem to advocate for a cashless society in posts that you have made .
Now correct me if im wrong but it seems your argument is its stops the cheaters and and your not worried about the government having full disclosure over everything you buy or sell because your on the up and up and aren't doing anything wrong.

In other words , fuck anyone's privacy because everyone needs to pay their fair share.

Hey maybe we should apply that same logic to ohhhhh say your privacy at home . Maybe the government should be able to just mossey on in to you home and do a random check without a warrant . I mean why would you need to worry if your on the up and up and not doing anything wrong .
You mind if I come by your house later and have a look around , because if you do have a problem than you must be doing something wrong.
No need for the 4th ammendment unless your a criminal and trying to hide something?

 

[tiNdvenTFHwMdqKW]

I thought the whole point in crypto was untraceable , not able to be manipulated like traditional currency.

I mean sure, they will know about it if you tell them. If you are doing a trade across regulated exchanges (nyse). But how are the going to track it if I’m selling “x” to buyer “y” via crypto?

There are very few truly anonymous cryptocurrencies (Monero is one of these). Most cryptos are highly traceable. Once they can find your wallet then they can see the full trail of where all transactions came and went. You can take steps to make this hard for them but the digital ledger is fully exposed for currencies like Bitcoin and Ethereum.

 

[clcustom1911]

what the fuck does it matter if it's $600 or $10,000, "IT'S MY MONEY"

Totally agree. The asset forfeiture process is akin to the red flag laws. You get your shit taken based on probable cause of potential ill-gotten means, and have to prove its NOT ill-gotten.

One of the many reasons I resigned from law enforcement.

 

[Maggot]

what the fuck does it matter if it's $600 or $10,000, "IT'S MY MONEY"

It matters because ...Wait for it...........................................They want your money to be their money.